S05 Ep10 - "Mother's Mercy" - HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS

Dan_Solo · 15-06-2015 9:53pm

karma_ wrote: »

After what he did to Shireen, there was no redemption for Stannis.

I don't get what you mean. Following the Red Witch's orders were exactly what got Stannis this far. Why would it suddenly be the reason for his downfall?

PressRun · 15-06-2015 9:53pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I don't get how she didn't know this until about 10 minutes before Stannis' army got smashed. Her fire god is a bit feckin' random for anybody to be following if you ask me.
They must have multilevel underground stables too at Winterfell!

I think the idea is that she has misinterpreted the visions or prophecies or whatever. That's why she's in shock at the end, I think. She realizes she's made a huge mistake. She's had her eye on Jon Snow all season. She knows there's something to him.

NomadicGray · 15-06-2015 9:54pm

Old Perry wrote: »

how did jorah, tyrion and darrio manage to get out of the pits?

Armour. Extremely thick plot armour.

Dan_Solo · 15-06-2015 9:56pm

Old Perry wrote: »

maybe she did know? maybe she seen stannis's ultimate fate, death at the hands of brienne or losing a/the battle for winterfell. could be that is why she left knowing jon snow ( and who jon really is) needs help.

how did jorah, tyrion and darrio manage to get out of the pits?

But why would she even believe her new "visions" herself when she's apparently been lead on by her god for years that Stannis would win?
I was a bit stunned nobody put a knife in her as soon as she got through the Castle Black gate TBH. Nobody particularly likes her, and they know now she deserted Stannis too.

Dan_Solo · 15-06-2015 9:59pm

PressRun wrote: »

The theory is that Jon has king's blood too, that he's part Targaryean.

I had assumed Stannis was the "true" king therefore his blood was special. Anybody with any connection to anybody who's ruled will do now? Seems tenuous.

J. Marston · 15-06-2015 10:02pm

Qyburn is obviously creepy but there's a weird kindness to him also.

FortuneChip · 15-06-2015 10:02pm

Very strange episode all round, pretty good though.

I don't mind whether it's good/evil characters that bite the bullet, once their stories have reached such a conclusion.
Jon's story was nowhere near a conclusion. Since Season 1 there's been something mysterious about his lineage, he's the only one other than Sam that knows Valyrian steel can do a bit of damage, Red Woman fully saw him to be someone of importance.
He wasn't a character that sought an end game, but there was one he was definitely destined for, and that's the only reason I see any weight in the resurrection theories (not usually a fan of "back from the dead stories", as they cheapen the death, especially with moral characters).

You look at the other favourites that have gone in the past, at least their stories reached a climax (albeit abrupt).
Oberyn was out for vengeance. The Mountain & Tywin won. He wasn't tied to the main arc at all.
Nor was Robb really. Ultimately he wanted justice for what happened to Ned, he lost to Roose & Tywin.

Stannis was always a strange enough one. He went straight for the throne in season 2. But afterwards shifted towards the bigger issue in the north, which I thought gave him a bit more credibility and purpose. "Protector of the Realm", but then shifted his focus into the political side of things with Roose again.

One thing is for sure, Season 10 (or whatever) - Episode 10 - Final Scene
Danearys sitting on Ramsay's lap on the Iron Throne.
"Oh Rambo, what a glorious time we live in."
Rambo eyes her menacingly.
"If you think thing has a happy ending... I'm going to start paying attention"

AnLonDubh · 15-06-2015 10:02pm

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I assume Jaqen is simply a persona any cultist can wear and acolyte #1456 died, who possibly never spoke to Arya prior to that scene.

PressRun · 15-06-2015 10:03pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I had assumed Stannis was the "true" king therefore his blood was special. Anybody with any connection to anybody who's ruled will do now? Seems tenuous.

I don't think it's ever said that only Stannis' blood will do. She uses leeches on Gendry a few seasons back because she knows there's something about him too (he's Robert's bastard).

Also, the fact that Stannis was trounced in battle would kind of prove that she misinterpreted the signs.

Dan_Solo · 15-06-2015 10:08pm

PressRun wrote: »

I don't think it's ever said that only Stannis' blood will do. She uses leeches on Gendry a few seasons back because she knows there's something about him too (he's Robert's bastard).

Also, the fact that Stannis was trounced in battle would kind of prove that she misinterpreted the signs.

I think the fact she ultimately had no idea what was happening and her magic/god failed utterly to materialise makes her a bit of a dead duck now to be honest. Who'd honestly march under her banner now?
I'd also think it would be good advice for anybody she's endorsing to set up some sort of royal blood breeding programme for ammunition!

2ndcoming · 15-06-2015 10:11pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I had assumed Stannis was the "true" king therefore his blood was special. Anybody with any connection to anybody who's ruled will do now? Seems tenuous.

You should take the time to read the books, all of these deeper ideas and more complex histories are visited in much greater detail and if you're the kind of person who's going to look under the surface of the show's plots at all it will be a much more enjoyable experience.

For a start the way the books are written - each chapter from one of the main character's point of view - a lot of it is expressed in that person's thoughts which obviously is gonna be hard to get across on screen.

Most of the Deus Ex Machina plot solutions seen this season are down to the mass condensing of the story to make it fit and make it work within budget.

DerekDGoldfish · 15-06-2015 10:11pm

Other 9 or 10 months to wait and I cant even catch up in the books and read ahead.

I've just watched two cats (not mine) fight over a tree stump in my back garden, the ginger cat defeated the black one read into that what you will.

PressRun · 15-06-2015 10:11pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I think the fact she ultimately had no idea what was happening and her magic/god failed utterly to materialise makes her a bit of a dead duck now to be honest. Who'd honestly march under her banner now?
I'd also think it would be good advice for anybody she's endorsing to set up some sort of royal blood breeding programme for ammunition!

Well, if Jon rises from the dead, she'll probably march under his banner rather than the other way around given that would fit in with the second coming prophecy of her religion.

Dan_Solo · 15-06-2015 10:12pm

2ndcoming wrote: »

You should take the time to read the books

If I need to have read the book to know what's happening then the writers of the TV show have, by definition, failed in their job.

AnLonDubh · 15-06-2015 10:15pm

2ndcoming wrote: »

Most of the Deus Ex Machina plot solutions seen this season are down to the mass condensing of the story to make it fit and make it work within budget.

I don't think Drogon's rescue at least was a Deus Ex Machina, I mean he is a well established element of the plot.

nxbyveromdwjpg · 15-06-2015 10:18pm

Wasn't that shocked when Jon got stabbed, at this point after season 1 and the red wedding etc, it's to be expected.

It would actually be more shocking at this point if the main invested character lived and something good happened.

It's actually started to get predictable now in an unorthodox sort of way.

Knex* · 15-06-2015 10:23pm

Even taking the whole Jon Snow scene out of it, I thought that episode was pretty terrible.

Too rushed, too many coincidences, skipped scenes/storylines, and just overall, poorly done. Was rather annoyed once those end credits came up.

Dan_Solo · 15-06-2015 10:24pm

nm wrote: »

Wasn't that shocked when Jon got stabbed, at this point after season 1 and the red wedding etc, it's to be expected.

The microsecond I saw the Traitor sign I was "GET YOUR VALERIAN OUT JON!". Of course, being a Stark, he just stood there like a dick and waited for it.

lbj666 · 15-06-2015 10:27pm

PressRun wrote: »

I think it's really risky business to kill off really compelling characters like Jon, Tywin, Oberyn, Ned, etc. for the sake of what just feels like shock value sometimes. Most of these are really great, nuanced characters that made the show interesting in the first place. Nobody watches for the likes of the Mountain, frankly.

As a friend said to me, if they kill all the best characters, then people are just going to end up watching just to see how it ends, not because they're truly invested in it, which is a pretty shallow way to watch a show.

Thats very well said , i mean i can see why book readers have been so eager for the next book to come out because things have been left at such an abyss of grimness and misery that they are hoping to come up from it as soon as possible.

I said on the episode 9 thread that what seems to keeps the intrigue for book readers as they go deeper into the series is what is it exactly what GRRM "getting at" and they come up with theories and phophecies all lot of which brings what is going on together and they get a serious kick out of the world building he has done. There is very little scope for that for tv viewers.

The_Valeyard · 15-06-2015 10:29pm

This is the most depressing show. Seriously, do the good guys always loses.

NomadicGray · 15-06-2015 10:32pm

So where was Ghost when **** was going wrong for Jon?
Isnt he usually watching out for him?

lbj666 · 15-06-2015 10:36pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

The microsecond I saw the Traitor sign I was "GET YOUR VALERIAN OUT JON!". Of course, being a Stark, he just stood there like a dick and waited for it.

Oh the sword you mean?

Dan_Solo · 15-06-2015 10:38pm

lbj666 wrote: »

Oh the sword you mean?

I would have said "get your Targaryan out" if that's what I meant!

BoJack Horseman · 15-06-2015 10:46pm

So,

Jon: Dead
Stannis: Dead
Sansa: Dead
Reek: Dead
Marcella: Dead
Danny: Captured.
Zombie Mountain: Dead....but not dead.
Arya: Blinded.

Busy episode, but on the whole, not a great one.
Feel strangely empty about it all.

The line from the sand-snake geebag to Bronn... Terrible.

Encrypted Pigeon · 15-06-2015 10:46pm

thought darrios description of grey worm was good. "he is the toughest man with no balls that I know"

Honestly after that episode, I'm lost at who I want to root for now.

youngblood · 15-06-2015 10:46pm

No Bran?

V disappointed overall

NomadicGray · 15-06-2015 10:49pm

youngblood wrote: »

No Bran?

V disappointed overall

Wasnt it specified before the season began that his story would be untouched.

dark crystal · 15-06-2015 10:50pm

Encrypted Pigeon wrote: »

Honestly after that episode, I'm lost at who I want to root for now.

This is it. Who actually deserves to sit on the Iron Throne now at this stage?

Tyrion would be the most logical answer, but Martin will probably kill him off too before the end. The sadist.

TouchingVirus · 15-06-2015 10:52pm

Gway and shíte. Jon

Degag · 15-06-2015 10:54pm

They just showed a clip of Maester Aemon saying "Kill the boy" to Jon Snow on that Thronecast show. Forewarning?

SillyBeans · 15-06-2015 10:54pm

Maybe Jon Snow is a Baratheon and not a Targaryen. He is black of hair. It would explain why the Red Woman was interested in him too, if he had kings blood. OR! Maybe he is Targaryen and the reason he is important is because Dany is who the Lord of Light wants to be ruler. Light and fire and dragons all go well together. I'm so confused! GRRM better not kick the bucket before this gets resolved!

LFC CONNAUGHTON · 15-06-2015 11:01pm

SillyBeans wrote:

Maybe Jon Snow is a Baratheon and not a Targaryen. He is black of hair. It would explain why the Red Woman was interested in him too, if he had kings blood. OR! Maybe he is Targaryen and the reason he is important is because Dany is who the Lord of Light wants to be ruler. Light and fire and dragons all go well together. I'm so confused! GRRM better not kick the bucket before this gets resolved!

Maybe Tyrion will urge for a Dany/ Jon marriage and they can make the child of ice and fire?

OhHiMark · 15-06-2015 11:03pm

EoinMcLovin wrote: »

some great reactions

What kind of colossal wanker films themselves watching a tv show?

"Well I better have an over the top reaction to anything that happens here to justify doing this"

BoJack Horseman · 15-06-2015 11:03pm

Degag wrote: »

They just showed a clip of Maester Aemon saying "Kill the boy" to Jon Snow on that Thronecast show. Forewarning?

That was a reference to Maester Aemon telling Jon to leave behind his former life & that he is ready to lead.

Generic Dreadhead · 15-06-2015 11:04pm

The Irish Water protesters making a cameo there towards the end of that episode.

I'lll get me coat

Degag · 15-06-2015 11:07pm

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

That was a reference to Maester Aemon telling Jon to leave behind his former life & that he is ready to lead.

I know but now I think it could also be a forewarning that he should have killed Olly.

keith16 · 15-06-2015 11:12pm

Disappointing season and ending overall.

At the end of each season, I've generally gone from "CAN'T WAIT FOR NEXT SEASON" to "I actually don't care".

phobia2011 · 15-06-2015 11:16pm

whats the story now, when can we expect the next season?

im new to the franchise, imagine my delight at having 5 seasons to plough through....now im drip fed.(tormented)
FFS theres no hero now!

King of the north...Gutted!!
Jon Snow...gutted!!
really hope the theory of the red bitch and resurection is true,

the way things are looking, I should probably start rooting for the white walkers!!!!!

i think i need to start reading the book.

Old Perry · 15-06-2015 11:18pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

But why would she even believe her new "visions" herself when she's apparently been lead on by her god for years that Stannis would win?
I was a bit stunned nobody put a knife in her as soon as she got through the Castle Black gate TBH. Nobody particularly likes her, and they know now she deserted Stannis too.

I assumed her visions were finite, she wouldnt need to cast many spells if one said it all.
They know nothing of stannis or that situation. yet to be revealed what she knows, i may stand corrected on that.

lbj666 · 15-06-2015 11:20pm

dark crystal wrote: »

This is it. Who actually deserves to sit on the Iron Throne now at this stage?
.

Its becoming clearer and clearer that that's not the whole point of all this.

catallus · 15-06-2015 11:22pm

lbj666 wrote: »

Its becoming clearer and clearer that that's not the whole point of all this.

?

I thought that was the only point?

DeadHand · 15-06-2015 11:23pm

But... But... That was Jon Snow...

Amirani · 15-06-2015 11:24pm

keith16 wrote: »

Disappointing season and ending overall.

At the end of each season, I've generally gone from "CAN'T WAIT FOR NEXT SEASON" to "I actually don't care".

Me too. It's not even good characters dying - we've gotten over plenty of them before, it's just the there has been such a sharp drop in general quality this season. After each episode (with perhaps the exception of Hardhome) there has been a disappointment that I've rationalised away with "there's time left in the season to salvage it", but they haven't. The final episode was mediocre.

I'll continue watching, and will likely look forward to the next season when it comes, but nowhere near to the same degree.

Old Perry · 15-06-2015 11:25pm

DeadHand wrote: »

But... But... That was Jon Snow...

Olly needs to be drop kicked off the wall s06ep01 minute 01.

Muirshin Durkin · 15-06-2015 11:41pm

game of thomes is a load of ****e, thats a joke that happened.

DeadHand · 15-06-2015 11:44pm

At least Stannis went out like a badass. Taking two (much younger) swordsmen with him despite being clearly wounded and exhausted.

Brienne continues her habit of having legends served to her on a plate.

PressRun · 15-06-2015 11:53pm

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Me too. It's not even good characters dying - we've gotten over plenty of them before, it's just the there has been such a sharp drop in general quality this season. After each episode (with perhaps the exception of Hardhome) there has been a disappointment that I've rationalised away with "there's time left in the season to salvage it", but they haven't. The final episode was mediocre.

I'll continue watching, and will likely look forward to the next season when it comes, but nowhere near to the same degree.

I do think a big part of the dip is to do with good characters being killed off though. Characters that were honourable but flawed like the Stark men, or ruthlessly pragmatic like Tywin, have been phased out in favour of altogether less interesting characters.

I mean, Tywin has been a huge loss, imo. The scenes with him and Arya back in season 2/3 were fantastic, and all they were was a man and a girl talking in a room. Nothing can really compare to those dialogue driven scenes with complex characters, and I always thought that that was where GoT was often at its strongest. We saw a bit of that in season 4 with Oberyn and Tyrion too. The scene with Oberyn telling Tyrion about the first time he saw him as a baby was just great. It's hard to have those kinds of scenes if the characters are not interesting enough.

Bacchus · 15-06-2015 11:58pm

The moment between Jamie and his daughter had my wife all happy cos Jamie is one of the few "good" guys left. I literally only had time to say "you know this means she's going to die now" before the blood started pouring out her nose.

conorhal · 16-06-2015 12:00am

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

So,

Jon: Dead
Stannis: Dead
Sansa: Dead
Reek: Dead
Marcella: Dead
Danny: Captured.
Zombie Mountain: Dead....but not dead.
Arya: Blinded.

Busy episode, but on the whole, not a great one.
Feel strangely empty about it all.

The line from the sand-snake geebag to Bronn... Terrible.

Good Jesus I nearly pissed myself laughing, 'you need bad pussy'. It's like Dorne exists in some parallel Quentin Tarrantino 70's grindhouse exploitation universe....

_Redzer_ · 16-06-2015 12:01am

Old Perry wrote: »

Olly needs to be drop kicked off the wall s06ep01 minute 01.

No, no, no. Too tame.

Have Ghost confront him in his bedroom and rip his throat out

S05 Ep10 - "Mother's Mercy" - HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS

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