Irelands most likely Olympic 2012 Medals

telecaster · 23-07-2012 7:43pm

That Korean archery regime is about as grim and cynical an approach to Olympic sport as I can imagine.

feargale · 23-07-2012 10:48pm

Any other thoughts - what "minority" sport could we try[/Quote]
Seven aside Rugby is to be introduced in 2016, and yet Ireland is not going to bother entering - in one of the top sports in the country, one in which we should do well. After all, Fiji, a tiny country and relative minnows in the 15 aside game, are masters of seven aside. The mind boggles. Given our Olympic history, < e.g. see today's Irish Times, an Irishman's Diary page 15 re 1936 > one sometimes wonders if Ireland has an Olympic death wish.

Cosmo Kramer · 23-07-2012 11:27pm

Reports on twitter that Mills is out of the relay team again and Cuddihy is back in. If so, this is turning into a total mess. Given that there appears to be a way that they can both go, I wish they would just do that so it could all be put to bed even at this late stage.

Dodge · 24-07-2012 10:29am

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Australia do pretty much the same in swimming.

Australia poured money into all areas of sport, and have reaped the benefits

Likewise with GB and track cycling. A complete non-entity when boardman came from nowhere to win in 1992 (he was favourite but he was only GB chance). massive amount of money poured in and now the world's best

So what sport is 'soft' and wouldn't take UK/australia levels of funding?

I've always thought we should emphasise the throws more in Irish athletics. Seem like we have the body type for them (ahead of sprinting for example).

Cosmo Kramer · 24-07-2012 1:18pm

So, anyone know why the AAI have such an interest in seeing Catriona Cuddihy go to the olympics - South v North thing? It is clear that Joanna Mills is the faster runner with more potential to deliver in future. If I was Mills I'd seriously consider throwing my lot in with the UK after this shambles.

This can't be doing the team's prospects of a PB any good - I wonder what the relationship between the two girls is like now? Did the possibility that Catriona being removed might affect Joanne's performance come into consideration? It seems very unfair on Mills either way.

Quite simply - she is faster and has more potential to develop - she should have been sent.

FitzjamesHorse · 24-07-2012 1:38pm

As a Northerner, Id be very disappointed if I thought it was a North/South thing with Joanna Mills.
Few of us our privy to what really goes on in committee rooms but there is historic and anecdotal evidence that some athletes are more popular than others in the corridors of power.
In selecting any team in any sport theres always an element of doubt about the selection process when the final names go forward.
But it is the Olympics.....and its an Irish Olympic Team.........and no Irish and/or Irish Olympic title is properly Irish until there has been a dispute about selection and non-selection.
Several years ago some of the biggest names in Irish athletics were threatened with exclusion from the Games because they were "not in good standing with the association". It was about "trust funds".
Im not really confident that relationships between athletes on the track and officials in committee rooms have improved.
Its just how we seem to be wired as Irish people.

FitzjamesHorse · 24-07-2012 1:57pm

As regards choosing a "minority" sport to really encourage.
I think one of the great things about Irish sport is the range of sports, many of which are played to a high level.
This has to include Rugby, Football as well as Hurling, Gaelic Football and Camogie.
Since the ban against some "foreign" sports was happily lifted I think we have seen all round improvements. Also modern Ireland has explored new sports such as Ski-ing and Gymnastics. It is also helped that women are more actively involved in spor......the biggest sporting change in my lifetime (I am 60).
But I think the beauty of a range of sports is that sometimes we can break thru. In the days of Coghlan, Flynn, O'Mara and O'Sullivan.....Irish miling was on a high. In the days of Roche and Kelly, it was Cycling.Notwithstanding excellent individuals, some sports.......Olympic Handball, Volleyball, Fencing, Archery and Table Tennis never really break thru into the mainstream.
If a guy or girl was 6ft 8inches tall.........Id certainly discourage them from Basketball.......as theres no realistic opportunity to develop internationally no matter how good they are.

I wouldnt really follow a plan that put a lot of money into (say) six sports. Its a form of dictatorship and everyone has a "right" to be treated equally.
But an alternative plan .......also an unacceptable form of dictatorship......would be to starve certain sports ....such as Table Tennis....of cash.
And certainly Tennis which only seems to exist in Ireland (honourable mentions to people who actually try to compete) as a social event on long summer evenings.
There is I think a real problem with some sports and that they actually "cost" more.
The great thing about Irish sport is the diversity......but Sport itself is a recreationa activity which requires a lot of leisure time long before anyone makes the breakthru into international sport and sponsorship and grant-aid.
It would be wrong to stereotype some sports as "working class" and others as "middle class" and others as "aristocratic" but we probably need to means test athletes.
Basically it could be argued that if you can afford an expensive boat (or horse) it may follow (but individual circumstances are different) that you dont need Government aid to compete.

Dodge · 24-07-2012 2:06pm

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

So, anyone know why the AAI have such an interest in seeing Catriona Cuddihy go to the olympics - South v North thing? It is clear that Joanna Mills is the faster runner with more potential to deliver in future. If I was Mills I'd seriously consider throwing my lot in with the UK after this shambles.

Wasn't it Ankrom (ie someone not Irish at all) who chose Cuddihy? Why would he care about North/South issues?

And if Mills is 6th/7th best Irish runner, she's further down the list (and further away from sposnorship) in the GB set up. Thats not to say I think its right that she's not there

I just don't think the threat of athletes leaving for Gb should come into consideration at all. (I realise you weren't saying this in your post either)

Dan man · 24-07-2012 2:06pm

The Irish flagbearer will be announced at 4pm!!

Dodge · 24-07-2012 2:14pm

FitzjamesHorse wrote: »

But I think the beauty of a range of sports is that sometimes we can break thru. In the days of Coghlan, Flynn, O'Mara and O'Sullivan.....Irish miling was on a high.

None of them really due to anything irish athletics did. All excelled because of the US collegiate system. Simialrly with cycling, it was just a handful of lads doing their own thign,. There was no investment in them from any irish bodies.

If a guy or girl was 6ft 8inches tall.........Id certainly discourage them from Basketball.......as theres no realistic opportunity to develop internationally no matter how good they are.

On the flip of that is she could make a nice life for herself if she went to US colleges on scholarship. Maybe not through professional sport, but certainly if she was smart enough she could do very well in life

Which leads me back to the the original point. There is ZERO investment in any Olympic sports in Ireland bar boxing. I'm not talking about Sports Council grants. I'm talking about sustained investment in developing facilities and coaches. Martin Irvyne is an outside shout for a medal and should make top ten in cycling and there isn't even an international grade velodrome in the country. We have 2 50m pools (both new enough) .

When Irish athletes succeed, its usually in spite of the backing they get rather than because of it. And with the country's finances the way it is, that won't change soon

Cardinal Richelieu · 24-07-2012 3:27pm

feargale wrote: »

Any other thoughts - what "minority" sport could we try

Seven aside Rugby is to be introduced in 2016, and yet Ireland is not going to bother entering - in one of the top sports in the country, one in which we should do well. After all, Fiji, a tiny country and relative minnows in the 15 aside game, are masters of seven aside. The mind boggles. Given our Olympic history, < e.g. see today's Irish Times, an Irishman's Diary page 15 re 1936 > one sometimes wonders if Ireland has an Olympic death wish.[/QUOTE]

I started a thread in the Rugby forum two years ago at least on the Sevens Rio rugby team. I can't see it happening and if it does it will be a 7s team cobbled together at the last moment while countries such as Portugal and Kenya will have years of experience on the Pro 7s World Circuit. Playing 15 aside rugby doesn't make good 7s players. The general excuse is that we can not afford a 7s team but politics may be at play too. GB will have a problem too trying to cram the English, Scots, Northern Irish and Welsh into one team.

Cosmo Kramer · 24-07-2012 3:28pm

Dodge wrote: »

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

So, anyone know why the AAI have such an interest in seeing Catriona Cuddihy go to the olympics - South v North thing? It is clear that Joanna Mills is the faster runner with more potential to deliver in future. If I was Mills I'd seriously consider throwing my lot in with the UK after this shambles.

Wasn't it Ankrom (ie someone not Irish at all) who chose Cuddihy? Why would he care about North/South issues?)

No idea Dodge, I just can't figure out the reasoning behind this decision. Ultimately we're talking about two athletes who probably won't get a run regardless of whether they're picked or not. Surely any rational decision maker would give the championship experience to the younger and faster athlete. There just seems to be something dodgy about the whole thing.

Dodge · 24-07-2012 3:38pm

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

I started a thread in the Rugby forum two years ago at least on the Sevens Rio rugby team. I can't see it happening and if it does it will be a 7s team cobbled together at the last moment while countries such as Portugal and Kenya will have years of experience on the Pro 7s World Circuit. Playing 15 aside rugby doesn't make good 7s players. The general excuse is that we can not afford a 7s team but politics may be at play too. GB will have a problem too trying to cram the English, Scots, Northern Irish and Welsh into one team.

I think the Northern Irish will stay with Ireland (as team will be run by IRFU still). Hockey is run similarly to Rugby in terms of Eng, Sco, Wales and (united) Ireland competing as nation for European adn World Championship. For Olympics GB competes. Northern irish hockey playesr can playf or both and there's no real issues within that sport.

I read a while ago that the IRFU had started to assemble a women's 7s side with a view to qualifying for Rio. Hopefully thats the first sign that they're treating the Olympics as an opportunity to showcase the sport and Ireland

Dodge · 24-07-2012 3:41pm

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

No idea Dodge, I just can't figure out the reasoning behind this decision. Ultimately we're talking about two athletes who probably won't get a run regardless of whether they're picked or not. Surely any rational decision maker would give the championship experience to the younger and faster athlete. There just seems to be something dodgy about the whole thing.

In fairness the position as explained by the statement was that Cuddihy committed herself fully to the relay team, while Mills didn't. Prefering to focus on thr world juniors and drifting in/out of the relay team. They kinda said that Cuddihy held back her own progress in order to help the team qualify. In that sense, it makes a little sense

I checked it up. 3 people on AI selection committee; 1 NI, 1 ROI, 1 USA (Ankrom). 3 ROI on the OCI appeals, they sided with Mills

Don't think it can be seen as a north/south issue

Cardinal Richelieu · 24-07-2012 3:51pm

Dodge wrote: »

I've always thought we should emphasise the throws more in Irish athletics. Seem like we have the body type for them (ahead of sprinting for example).

I agree, we have a great early Olympic history in throwing too. A small number of mainly European nations of nations seem to dominate the medals for those events. The Euro Athletics Championship would actually be a very competitive event unlike the sprinting and middle distance running at this years event. Lets face it for most people they consider Athletics the Blue Ribbon sport of the Olympics so it would be good if we could consistently challenge for the medals in throwing.

Cardinal Richelieu · 24-07-2012 4:07pm

Dodge wrote: »

I think the Northern Irish will stay with Ireland (as team will be run by IRFU still). Hockey is run similarly to Rugby in terms of Eng, Sco, Wales and (united) Ireland competing as nation for European adn World Championship. For Olympics GB competes. Northern irish hockey playesr can playf or both and there's no real issues within that sport.

I read a while ago that the IRFU had started to assemble a women's 7s side with a view to qualifying for Rio. Hopefully thats the first sign that they're treating the Olympics as an opportunity to showcase the sport and Ireland

That actually would be the smartest option, less hassle with having to get players released from the Provinces during the H Cup, costs should be cheaper and the women 7s side is not as developed as the Men's so not as much catch up needed. The Ireland Women's 7 team appear to be up and running.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Women%27s_Sevens_Championship#European_Women.27s_Sevens_Series:_Round_2_.26_World_Cup_final_qualifier

Dodge · 24-07-2012 4:17pm

Katie Taylor announced as flag bearer for Ireland at the opening ceremony

Cosmo Kramer · 25-07-2012 3:12pm

http://eoghancormican.wordpress.com/2012/07/24/sentiment-wins-out-over-speed/

A strong suggestion of nepotism here. Impossible to prove of course. The decision is baffling though - something clearly stinks about the whole process.

alan27 · 25-07-2012 3:17pm

Katie Taylor deserves to carry the flag and hopefully she will win a medal and with abit of luck it will be the gold.

Truman Burbank · 25-07-2012 7:03pm

paulgeog wrote: »

Just wondering if Dan Man or anyone else can tell me how many of the Irish team are students or alumni of Colleges and Universities in USA, UK and particularly Ireland, and if the sports programs there made a significant contribution to the athletes progression.

This article about UK athletes sparked my interest:

http://www.podium.ac.uk/news/view/897/majority-of-team-gb-at-london-2012-olympic-games-are-products-of-higher-education

Coming from both a boxing and university background I know the IABA have not utilized the resources of higher education institutions to their advantage (as yet).

Interesting. Would it be true to say that one of Katie Taylor's brothers, Peter, was a promising boxer who hung up his gloves for Cambridge?

F.R. · 25-07-2012 9:29pm

paulgeog wrote: »

Just wondering if Dan Man or anyone else can tell me how many of the Irish team are students or alumni of Colleges and Universities in USA, UK and particularly Ireland, and if the sports programs there made a significant contribution to the athletes progression.

This article about UK athletes sparked my interest:

http://www.podium.ac.uk/news/view/897/majority-of-team-gb-at-london-2012-olympic-games-are-products-of-higher-education

Coming from both a boxing and university background I know the IABA have not utilized the resources of higher education institutions to their advantage (as yet).

Arthur Lanigan-O’Keeffe and Annalise Murphy are both UCD students. Some info here.

I don't know how much their programs help them but I do remember that a member of the Irish women's football team was in one of my classes and the college were always willing to accommodate her for training or matches. They have a policy of encouraging elite sports people.

feargale · 26-07-2012 1:23am

Anybody know date and time of Arthur Lanigan-O'Keefe's event ?

buyer95 · 26-07-2012 1:50am

Hi guys this is my first post here. I am going to London from the 8th to 12th of August and I have tickets for the womens boxing final on the 9th(fingers crossed Katie) and mens boxing semi final session 2 on the 10th.

I was looking at what tickets are still available for the 11th and noticed the canoe sprint finals still has tickets available at decent prices. After further research, to my suprise we have an Irish Athlete born and raised in Poland Andrzej Jezierski competing in this event and is in a semi final on the 10th, I am serious considering buying tickets for this final, and was wondering if anyone on this knows of jezierski has a chance at getting to a final?

Thanks

Dan man · 26-07-2012 3:42am

feargale wrote: »

Anybody know date and time of Arthur Lanigan-O'Keefe's event ?

Penultimate day of action...Saturday 11th August.

Dan man · 26-07-2012 3:47am

buyer95 wrote: »

Hi guys this is my first post here. I am going to London from the 8th to 12th of August and I have tickets for the womens boxing final on the 9th(fingers crossed Katie) and mens boxing semi final session 2 on the 10th.

I was looking at what tickets are still available for the 11th and noticed the canoe sprint finals still has tickets available at decent prices. After further research, to my suprise we have an Irish Athlete born and raised in Poland Andrzej Jezierski competing in this event and is in a semi final on the 10th, I am serious considering buying tickets for this final, and was wondering if anyone on this knows of jezierski has a chance at getting to a final?

Thanks

Yes Andrzej Jezierski has a big chance of making the final and is an outside bet for a medal...he was 5th at the European Championships in C1 200m a few weeks ago and when you consider that Europe totally dominates this event globally then that was a very encouraging result. The final in the World Championships last year contained only 1 non-European paddler so if he can replicate his form from the European Championships then he stands a fantastic chance of making the final... by the way, 9 paddlers qualify for the final.

KevIRL · 26-07-2012 8:40am

Joe ward gone to the court of arbitration for sport to appeal his olympic non qualification. Result expected around lunch time. Grasping at straws?

Silvio.Dante · 26-07-2012 8:49am

KevIRL wrote: »

Joe ward gone to the court of arbitration for sport to appeal his olympic non qualification. Result expected around lunch time. Grasping at straws?

I wish him all the best with it...

buyer95 · 26-07-2012 9:44am

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I wish him all the best with it...

Lads, apparently this is a solo run by ward, the iaba or ioc had nothing to do with this. Apparently the barrister representing ward is the same man he appealed successfully for Joanna Millls inclusion

KevIRL · 26-07-2012 9:51am

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I wish him all the best with it...

Absolutely agree. Just realised my post may have indicated otherwise

Skid · 26-07-2012 12:04pm

KevIRL wrote: »

Joe ward gone to the court of arbitration for sport to appeal his olympic non qualification. Result expected around lunch time. Grasping at straws?

It might be a tiny chance but if I was in his shoes, I would give it a try.

Strange that he has left it so late, but it would be a huge story if he did win his place.

buyer95 · 26-07-2012 1:21pm

Announcement coming on ward at 4pm, apparently this could work out very well;)

Speak Now · 26-07-2012 4:13pm

buyer95 wrote: »

Announcement coming on ward at 4pm, apparently this could work out very well;)

Appeal unsuccessful.

Sparks · 26-07-2012 4:22pm

paulgeog wrote: »

Just wondering if Dan Man or anyone else can tell me how many of the Irish team are students or alumni of Colleges and Universities in USA, UK and particularly Ireland, and if the sports programs there made a significant contribution to the athletes progression.

Natalya Coyle (modern pentathlon) would be a TCD student at the moment if I remember correctly...

Sparks · 26-07-2012 4:30pm

The Buster wrote: »

Any other thoughts - what "minority" sport could we try

Well, we've won the world championships in olympic shotgun twice now, as well as european championships and world cups, all on minimal funding and with ridiculously restrictive laws, so how about we try that?

Truman Burbank · 26-07-2012 5:39pm

Denis Lynch also at CAS, and in non-appeal news, swimmer Grainne Murphy has confirmed she will not be competing in the 400m, for which she has the B-standard and is eligible, and will instead concentrate on her main 800m event.

Cosmo Kramer · 26-07-2012 6:02pm

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

buyer95 wrote: »

Announcement coming on ward at 4pm, apparently this could work out very well;)

Appeal unsuccessful.

Decision put back to 9pm now? It seems like there wouldn't be this much delay if they weren't at least giving his case serious consideration. I wonder has he kept to his training schedule since the tripartite announcement went against him?

You'd have to feel sorry for the Montenegrin(?) who's place he's challenging here also, presumably he's already travelled to the UK to participate assuming this was all done and dusted.

Truman Burbank · 26-07-2012 6:29pm

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Decision put back to 9pm now? It seems like there wouldn't be this much delay if they weren't at least giving his case serious consideration. I wonder has he kept to his training schedule since the tripartite announcement went against him?

You'd have to feel sorry for the Montenegrin(?) who's place he's challenging here also, presumably he's already travelled to the UK to participate assuming this was all done and dusted.

RTE Radio has just now reported that
(1) He has kept up his training schedule to start competition August 4th
(2) If he is successful at CAS tonight, it still has to go back to The WB? for a final decision (you read that correctly)

Dan man · 26-07-2012 6:45pm

Truman Burbank wrote: »

RTE Radio has just now reported that
(1) He has kept up his training schedule to start competition August 4th
(2) If he is successful at CAS tonight, it still has to go back to The WB? for a final decision (you read that correctly)

Irish Times are reporting that the appeal failed but that the CAS haven't made available the full report yet:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/other/2012/0726/1224320874053.html

Truman Burbank · 26-07-2012 10:43pm

The very best of luck to all the Irish athletes, coaches....... And a thank you to Dan, Dodge (et lots of Als) for all the great discussions, explanations, links, updates, grids, charts, profiles, photos, schedules etc. It's been an education! If the team gets half the support, interest and encouragement shown here, they'd surely be delighted. And very proud

KevIRL · 26-07-2012 11:05pm

Truman Burbank wrote: »

The very best of luck to all the Irish athletes, coaches....... And a thank you to Dan, Dodge (et lots of Als) for all the great discussions, explanations, links, updates, grids, charts, profiles, photos, schedules etc. It's been an education! If the team gets half the support, interest and encouragement shown here, they'd surely be delighted. And very proud

+1. Well said Truman

Dodge · 27-07-2012 1:32pm

I'll have a full preview of all irish in action (times etc) tonight.

Skid · 27-07-2012 3:06pm

Katie Taylor got a tough draw.

Possible fights against Queen Underwood (USA) in the Quarter Final and Cheg Dong (China) in the Semis.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/olympics/boxing/2012/0727/330861-taylor-faces-tough-route-for-london-gold/

Speak Now · 27-07-2012 3:12pm

Tough draw for Queen Underwood!

Cosmo Kramer · 27-07-2012 3:41pm

Sounds like our boxing draws in general have not been great so far.

KevIRL · 27-07-2012 6:37pm

**Olympic Value alert**

Peter O Leary and David Burrows are 7/1 with PP to win their event in sailing (mens star class), however in their 'Irish medals specials' market, PP have them at 7/1 to win a medal

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/olympics/olympics-medal-special?ev_oc_grp_ids=749428

Corruptedmorals · 27-07-2012 8:27pm

Kieran Behan will be competing very early on, he is in subdivision 1 and his first event is floor. Starting at 11AM, he's fourth up in the first rotation- probably be on before 11:15. Only 8 can qualify to the floor finals and there's tough competition..go Kieran!

knockcon · 28-07-2012 12:50am

KevIRL wrote: »

**Olympic Value alert**

Peter O Leary and David Burrows are 7/1 with PP to win their event in sailing (mens star class), however in their 'Irish medals specials' market, PP have them at 7/1 to win a medal

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/olympics/olympics-medal-special?ev_oc_grp_ids=749428

Nicely spotted kev! Pity the max bet is capped! That's value indeed.

FitzjamesHorse · 28-07-2012 1:07am

Earlier this week the Irish News reported that Boylesports had Katie Taylor at 1/4 to win the gold medal (not exactly good value) but had Ireland at 10/11 to win one gold medal.
I dont know if Boylesports has amended this but this is essentially two prices for what is almost the same thing.
Of course Ireland could win two gold medals.......but clearly 10/11 is a much better price than 1/4.

feargale · 28-07-2012 1:12am

Truman Burbank wrote: »

The very best of luck to all the Irish athletes, coaches....... And a thank you to Dan, Dodge (et lots of Als)
And so say all of us. Much appreciated, Dan, Dodge etc..
I hope that at least one of these threads continues after the Olympics. There is unfinished business, and I look forward to further discussion of e.g. the desirability of Ireland concentrating on specific sports, which ones should we concentrate on, Olympic clubs < and debate with Fitzjameshorse over the latter > etc.. There wont be much time to talk about the long term in the coming fortnight.
I'll die happy when an Irish team return from a Summer Olympics with two gold and three bronze, better any way you look at it than Melbourne 1956, better than LA 1932.

Victor McDade · 28-07-2012 6:32am

Apologies if already posted but here's the Irish schedule

http://www.olympicsport.ie/news/5802-irish-athletes-schedule-part-1.html

Irelands most likely Olympic 2012 Medals

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