Multi-functional events centre (Budget 2014)

Bacchus · 14-01-2014 2:03pm

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I never understood how the traffic management side of things would work for the beamish site, all single lane roads, one way system around it a mere sniff of an event and it would be jammers.

Unfortunately, unless you put it outside the city, traffic is always going to be a problem but I agree, the Beamish site would be a traffic nightmare (and that's before you even consider the flood of pedestrians trying to access the site). There's not really any scope to add/change lanes or parking either.

BUNK1982 · 14-01-2014 3:20pm

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I never understood how the traffic management side of things would work for the beamish site, all single lane roads, one way system around it a mere sniff of an event and it would be jammers.

I reckon that the traffic situation in the Beamish would be so dire that it would eventually alleviate itself, if that makes sense? Driving to an event there simply wouldn't be an option so people would have to look at alternative methods of arriving there.

The Albert Quay site by comparison already has a busy road network so the impact on the general public would be a lot bigger given it's proximity to the Link Road, train station, bus station etc.

Michael.. · 14-01-2014 3:40pm

A lot of people are going for the Beamish site simply because it's more ambitious.

I must admit, it does look relatively nice and it would do wonders for that part of the city. However, I notice Bam keep saying that development will take place on a phased basis.

I'm concerned that if Bam get the go ahead they'll build the event centre and leave the rest of the site desolate for many more years until such time as demand for city centre apartments etc picks up.

If it was a straight race between the two event centres - leaving aside the extra development Bam has included - I think O'Callaghan's proposal is superior.

It's location is far better and as far as I know they have Live Nation on board which is an absolute must.

calnand · 15-01-2014 12:51am

The Albert quay site is in my opinion the weaker project. It's an awful design cramped into a location too small for it. The beamish site is far superior, it will create a landmark building in Cork and a new cultural centre in a city that is slowly dying. The brewery quarter is exactly what cork needs to rejuvenate the inner city. Have a read of all the documents available on the planning website, and you'll come to the same conclusion as me. O'Callaghan has done great things for the city but I don't think his event centre is the better choice.

Bacchus · 15-01-2014 8:47am

Do you have a link to the Albert Quat plans? I haven't actually seen them (only have my imagination as to what they'll do to the site to go on

)

While I agree, the Brewery area is ripe for rejuvenation I just don't see this modern events centre as being the solution. It does not fit with the area (the cathedral, the park, the Beamish factory) and is one of these horrible clashes of heritage and modern design. Albert Quay is already a modern, glass building area but it's all on one side of the river, while the other side is derelict buildings (are they actually used for anything currently?).

CHealy · 15-01-2014 11:14am

Bacchus wrote: »

Do you have a link to the Albert Quat plans? I haven't actually seen them (only have my imagination as to what they'll do to the site to go on )

While I agree, the Brewery area is ripe for rejuvenation I just don't see this modern events centre as being the solution. It does not fit with the area (the cathedral, the park, the Beamish factory) and is one of these horrible clashes of heritage and modern design. Albert Quay is already a modern, glass building area but it's all on one side of the river, while the other side is derelict buildings (are they actually used for anything currently?).

This is something the Examiner threw up on the tube.

This is the Brewery Quarter one.

IMO its no contest, it has to go to the Beamish site to rejuvenate that inner city area. Parking and traffic is going to be an issue either way and I can only hope and assume that the park and ride will be made available to concert and event goers for free.

Rhys Essien · 15-01-2014 11:53am

I dont know why people keep going on about traffic issues for the Beamish site.You are not going to expect to drive up to the front door of the arena.

Also its O'Callaghans arena versus Bams arena plus a whole lot else.

The decision is a no brainer.

Rhys Essien · 15-01-2014 12:09pm

Bacchus wrote: »

Do you have a link to the Albert Quat plans? I haven't actually seen them (only have my imagination as to what they'll do to the site to go on )

While I agree, the Brewery area is ripe for rejuvenation I just don't see this modern events centre as being the solution. It does not fit with the area (the cathedral, the park, the Beamish factory) and is one of these horrible clashes of heritage and modern design. Albert Quay is already a modern, glass building area but it's all on one side of the river, while the other side is derelict buildings (are they actually used for anything currently?).

There will be a €50 million eight-storey office block built there shortly.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/50m-office-block-could-be-biggest-built-in-cork-253226.html

Also,the Clarion hotel and Examiner side is Lapps Quay not Albert Quay.

evilivor · 15-01-2014 12:17pm

Rhys Essien wrote: »

There will be a €50 million eight-storey office block built there shortly.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/50m-office-block-could-be-biggest-built-in-cork-253226.html

Also,the Clarion hotel and Examiner side is Lapps Quay not Albert Quay.

No Examiner on Lapps Quay. They moved out last year.

Bacchus · 15-01-2014 12:32pm

CHealy wrote: »

IMO its no contest, it has to go to the Beamish site to rejuvenate that inner city area. Parking and traffic is going to be an issue either way and I can only hope and assume that the park and ride will be made available to concert and event goers for free.

Those two videos are not good comparisons. The Beamish one is a lot more polished relative to the wire frame Albert Quay one. It automatically just "looks" better (fair play to the planners for the effort they put in btw). Also, the only shot in it that iscomparable to the Albert Quay one is the outside pan around at the start. In the Albert Quay video, all surrounding structures are displayed. In the Beamish one, they have all been removed, making it appear much cleaner and spacious than it really is. I quite like the look of the plan for the Albert Quay site. Would look great along the waterfront.

It's no contest who made a better video but it's certainly up for plenty of debate as to which is the better site & plan.

You are right that parking and traffic will be an issue either way, but I think it will be far worse at the Beamish factory. And it's not just because of people "being dropped to the door", if you want to get anywhere near that site, you have to go through the city due to the network of one way street that you need to go through to get to/from the location. Even if you're just dropped of on Washington street, that car has to go through Grand Parade (or if you're coming from the other direction, you've just gone though the city centre).

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Also,the Clarion hotel and Examiner side is Lapps Quay not Albert Quay.

Yes of course, I meant "Albert Quay" as in the greater area of the project

Michael.. · 15-01-2014 12:37pm

Does anybody have a link to the plans for both projects ?

Would like to get a bit more detail on them.

Rhys Essien · 15-01-2014 1:04pm

Michael.. wrote: »

A lot of people are going for the Beamish site simply because it's more ambitious.

I must admit, it does look relatively nice and it would do wonders for that part of the city. However, I notice Bam keep saying that development will take place on a phased basis.

I'm concerned that if Bam get the go ahead they'll build the event centre and leave the rest of the site desolate for many more years until such time as demand for city centre apartments etc picks up.

If it was a straight race between the two event centres - leaving aside the extra development Bam has included - I think O'Callaghan's proposal is superior.

It's location is far better and as far as I know they have Live Nation on board which is an absolute must.

A bit of useless information for you but BAM are probably the biggest construction company in Europe.They have recently built the Leeds Arena and the Berlin Arena.Im sure themselves and Heineken will have no hassle getting a top promoter for the gigs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_arena

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O2_World_(Berlin)

Another thing,who should get the naming rights to the Cork Arena.I like the sound of the Apple Arena.

who_me · 15-01-2014 1:11pm

BUNK1982 wrote: »

I reckon that the traffic situation in the Beamish would be so dire that it would eventually alleviate itself, if that makes sense? Driving to an event there simply wouldn't be an option so people would have to look at alternative methods of arriving there.

The Albert Quay site by comparison already has a busy road network so the impact on the general public would be a lot bigger given it's proximity to the Link Road, train station, bus station etc.

Nuts, I wrote a long post yesterday on this but couldn't post it..

I very much agree about driving up to the front door. It's being put in the city centre so you DON'T drive to it. People avoid the city centre as it is because of traffic/parking, imagine how much worse it would be with 6,000 people milling around. If either centre had an off-street dropoff area, it might work a bit better, Beamish might have more scope for that.

Albert Quay is much better for public transport though.

who_me · 15-01-2014 3:19pm

calnand wrote: »

The Albert quay site is in my opinion the weaker project. It's an awful design cramped into a location too small for it. The beamish site is far superior, it will create a landmark building in Cork and a new cultural centre in a city that is slowly dying. The brewery quarter is exactly what cork needs to rejuvenate the inner city. Have a read of all the documents available on the planning website, and you'll come to the same conclusion as me. O'Callaghan has done great things for the city but I don't think his event centre is the better choice.

I don't know how you can say this, given you like the Beamish proposal.

The Beamish design looks awful from the river side. And it's a massive complex, crammed into a relatively small site. I prefer the Beamish site, but hate the proposed design.

calnand · 15-01-2014 4:08pm

I'm on my phone no not sure of link will work. http://planning.corkcity.ie/InternetEnquiry/rpt_QueryBySurForRecLoc.asp and enter. 1134944 for the Albert quay site and 1034698 for the brewery quarter site. You'll need to install djvu software to view files.

mordeith · 14-03-2014 3:35pm

For anyone interested there is a model of the Bam/Heineken development on display in Casey's window (Oliver Plunkett street)

Thepikapi · 19-03-2014 4:31pm

I think that the beamish arena will probably draw in money as it will bring in touring concerts, shows like cirque du soleil or Disney on ice and can be used for large scale conferences. The Albert's quay site is more of a large theatre like the grand canal in Dublin, so it'll probably bring large scale touring productions from the west end as the opera house stage is too small, more people (mainly younger people) will want to see one direction in the beamish rather than the lion king on Albert's quay. I personally think that the Albert's quay site is more accessible, helps out an area of town that is struggling, costs less and adds more of a desperately needed main-stream culture scene. Although the beamish site will inevitably revive the city centre, I think we should save up for it so we don't lose out like we did with the Elysian(which probably will stay empty until the economy balances out).

Rhys Essien · 19-03-2014 4:54pm

Thepikapi wrote: »

I think that the beamish arena will probably draw in money as it will bring in touring concerts, shows like cirque du soleil or Disney on ice and can be used for large scale conferences. The Albert's quay site is more of a large theatre like the grand canal in Dublin, so it'll probably bring large scale touring productions from the west end as the opera house stage is too small, more people (mainly younger people) will want to see one direction in the beamish rather than the lion king on Albert's quay. I personally think that the Albert's quay site is more accessible, helps out an area of town that is struggling, costs less and adds more of a desperately needed main-stream culture scene. Although the beamish site will inevitably revive the city centre, I think we should save up for it so we don't lose out like we did with the Elysian(which probably will stay empty until the economy balances out).

I imagine both venue's could cater for the same shows.The capacity of the new arena will be 6000 seater(whatever one they choose).The Opera House can only hold 1000.

Another thing,would it not be better to spread the development around the city especially with the new big office block that will be built on Albert Quay shortly.

Thepikapi · 19-03-2014 10:09pm

Rhys Essien wrote: »

I imagine both venue's could cater for the same shows.The capacity of the new arena will be 6000 seater(whatever one they choose).The Opera House can only hold 1000.

Another thing,would it not be better to spread the development around the city especially with the new big office block that will be built on Albert Quay shortly.

That's true, but the office block has been delayed by Nama. However, arenas are completely different to theatres, the seating, rigging and acoustics must follow a certain standard in theatres. Also the albert's quay centre won't be hosting anything like the one in the beamish if it were to be used as an events centre/theatre. I imagine that if the O'Callaghan site gets picked to be done first, (which, let's face it, is unlikely) they'll probably just cop out and do an arena despite how much a large scale theatre is needed (probably because of how people really just want an arena).

Michael.. · 20-03-2014 12:40am

Thepikapi wrote: »

That's true, but the office block has been delayed by Nama. However, arenas are completely different to theatres, the seating, rigging and acoustics must follow a certain standard in theatres. Also the albert's quay centre won't be hosting anything like the one in the beamish if it were to be used as an events centre/theatre. I imagine that if the O'Callaghan site gets picked to be done first, (which, let's face it, is unlikely) they'll probably just cop out and do an arena despite how much a large scale theatre is needed (probably because of how people really just want an arena).

I'd imagine whoever wins the bid will have Live Nation on board. Be that the Albert Quay development or Beamish.

AugustusMinimus · 20-03-2014 11:37am

Thepikapi wrote: »

I personally think that the Albert's quay site is more accessible, helps out an area of town that is struggling, costs less and adds more of a desperately needed main-stream culture scene. Although the beamish site will inevitably revive the city centre, I think we should save up for it so we don't lose out like we did with the Elysian(which probably will stay empty until the economy balances out).

The Albert Quay site is just off the N27 which is the main route for taking North - South and South - North through the city centre.

There's endless moaning about Mahon Point being built right beside the SRR. Due to it being built there, the Mahon Interchange is regularly blocked up with traffic. No way should the shopping centre have been built there.

O'Callaghan is now calling for this centre to be built right beside the N27. The area of the N27 around Albert Quay is already probably the area of the city centre with the heaviest traffic. It can be terrible there at times. You throw that event centre catering for 6,000 people into the mix and you are asking for some serious trouble.

The Beamish site will be accessed very differently. The parking of cars will be a lot more spread out and access believe it or not won't be as congestion inducing as at the other site as people will park and walk from a greater distance. South Main Street is not very prone to heavy traffic also.

BUNK1982 · 20-03-2014 2:18pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The Albert Quay site is just off the N27 which is the main route for taking North - South and South - North through the city centre.

There's endless moaning about Mahon Point being built right beside the SRR. Due to it being built there, the Mahon Interchange is regularly blocked up with traffic. No way should the shopping centre have been built there.

O'Callaghan is now calling for this centre to be built right beside the N27. The area of the N27 around Albert Quay is already probably the area of the city centre with the heaviest traffic. It can be terrible there at times. You throw that event centre catering for 6,000 people into the mix and you are asking for some serious trouble.

The Beamish site will be accessed very differently. The parking of cars will be a lot more spread out and access believe it or not won't be as congestion inducing as at the other site as people will park and walk from a greater distance. South Main Street is not very prone to heavy traffic also.

There's also a health and safety issue that needs be considered, 6000 people spilling out out to what is essentially the Link Road?

Even in the plans for the docklands development there was to be another bridge built further down the river from there.

Thepikapi · 21-03-2014 3:08am

Why don't they just build an underground car park like the one for the O2, it kinda makes sense. I mean if they don't then either location will just be as clogged as a doughnut enthusiast's artery!

AugustusMinimus · 21-03-2014 9:49am

BUNK1982 wrote: »

There's also a health and safety issue that needs be considered, 6000 people spilling out out to what is essentially the Link Road?

IMO, the area simply isn't suited to having that events centres. The N27 literally bisects the area. You'll have the city centre on one side and everyone trying to cross the N27 to get to the events centre.

I originally thought the event centre was to go on the derelict site which was once part of Albert Street Railway station, but this is going to be an office development. The actual location is even worse.

BUNK1982 wrote: »

Even in the plans for the docklands development there was to be another bridge built further down the river from there.

Indeed, the first problem with the docklands development would be the increased traffic on both Michael Collins and Eamon De Valera bridges. The only solution was to build a new bridge, going from somewhere near the skew bridge on the Lower Glanmire Road over to the docklands.

AugustusMinimus · 21-03-2014 9:50am

Thepikapi wrote: »

Why don't they just build an underground car park like the one for the O2, it kinda makes sense. I mean if they don't then either location will just be as clogged as a doughnut enthusiast's artery!

I would imagine that users of the East Link toll bridge in Dublin must curse every single time there's an event on in the O2. Clogs the whole area. And the O2 in Dublin isn't in near as bad an area as O'Callaghans proposed development in Cork.

BUNK1982 · 21-03-2014 10:25am

[QUOTE=Indeed, the first problem with the docklands development would be the increased traffic on both Michael Collins and Eamon De Valera bridges. The only solution was to build a new bridge, going from somewhere near the skew bridge on the Lower Glanmire Road over to the docklands.[/QUOTE]

Traffic in Cork City is becoming a vicious circle - people need a car to get around because the public transport infrastructure is so poor, more cars mean more roads required so there's less investment in public transport. More roads mean it becomes more convenient to drive everywhere so people live in the suburbs and developers build huge shopping centres and offices next to these new roads to attract punters.

Hopefully the conference centre and Alber Quay office development will buck the trend.

AugustusMinimus · 21-03-2014 10:42am

Did I read this thread right by the way ? That the O'Callaghan proposal is to build an O2 Dublin style amphitheatre while the Beamish development will be a basketball court style arena ?

If this is the case, a basketball style arena can accommodate a whole range of different activities (concerts, sporting events etc etc). Much more bang for your buck.

Thepikapi · 22-03-2014 1:13am

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Did I read this thread right by the way ? That the O'Callaghan proposal is to build an O2 Dublin style amphitheatre while the Beamish development will be a basketball court style arena ?

If this is the case, a basketball style arena can accommodate a whole range of different activities (concerts, sporting events etc etc). Much more bang for your buck.

Nah, the beamish would be like the O2, and the O'Callaghan's site will be like the grand canal.

zetalambda · 15-05-2014 1:08pm

IIRC the decision on where the event center would be built was to be announced in May. Were already half way through so hopefully we'll find out soon...

evilivor · 15-05-2014 1:17pm

zetalambda wrote: »

IIRC the decision on where the event center would be built was to be announced in May. Were already half way through so hopefully we'll find out soon...

Mischievous article in The Sunday Times this week.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/article1409537.ece

Michael.. · 15-05-2014 4:10pm

I hope to god this doesn't drag on.

The people of Cork have waited long enough for an event centre. There has been many false dawns over the years but it seems that we are within touching distance.

I prefer the the Albert Quay proposal but to be honest I really couldn't care who gets the money as long as we get an event centre capable of attracting conferences, concerts, exhibitions etc.

T'would be a great boost for the city. Fingers crossed we get a decision sooner rather than later.

Rhys Essien · 22-05-2014 12:27am

The decision on where this will be built,will be announced in 6 weeks time, according to Simon Coveney on the radio today.

rebs23 · 22-05-2014 8:05am

Rhys Essien wrote: »

The decision on where this will be built,will be announced in 6 weeks time, according to Simon Coveney on the radio today.

Oh please just announce it. I couldn't care where at this stage once it gets built with no further messing.

AugustusMinimus · 22-05-2014 8:34am

Really hoping that Beamish Brewery gets this development. Albert Quay is just plain wrong on a number of grounds IMO.

Bacchus · 22-05-2014 8:38am

rebs23 wrote: »

Oh please just announce it. I couldn't care where at this stage once it gets built with no further messing.

I'm getting to this point too. Would just like a decision made... so we can pick it apart and say why it's wrong

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Really hoping that Beamish Brewery gets this development. Albert Quay is just plain wrong on a number of grounds IMO.

Beamish is wrong on a number of grounds too. Both sites have pros and cons. I've leaned towards the Albert Quay one myself in this thread. I've a feeling the Beamish one will get the nod though. Hopefully once we know the site we can focus on the pros and look forward to having such an events centre in town

Pitcairn · 22-05-2014 9:27am

The consultants are still listening to both proposals and have asked both sides for more information.
Because both applications already have planning permission the debate is not around which venue is the best for traffic or parking.
Instead it is focused on who will operate the venues, how can they guarantee there will be regular concerts and conferences, how much State investment the venues will need and what kind of value the State will receive from its investment.
Once the consultants make a recommendation next month they will pass it onto to the City Manager. However Cork doesn't have a City Manager. They are interviewing for the position at the moment. That will likely take until the end of next month.

The new City Council is likely to be as divided on which venue should be picked as much as everyone on the board here. So there may be some councillors kicking up a stink over one venue being picked over the other.

I reckon there is still a way to go on this.

Rhys Essien · 22-05-2014 10:59am

I still dont get why people are comparing the two sites like for like.

The Albert Quay site is just the event centre.The Beamish site is a whole new city block effectively,which an event centre will be part of.To me,I dont even know what they need to decide.Its a no brainer.

Bacchus · 22-05-2014 11:25am

Rhys Essien wrote: »

I still dont get why people are comparing the two sites like for like.

The Albert Quay site is just the event centre.The Beamish site is a whole new city block effectively,which an event centre will be part of.To me,I dont even know what they need to decide.Its a no brainer.

Never heard this before. I thought both sites were offering pretty much the same facilities. What extra is in the Beamish proposal that isn't in the Albert Quay one?

evilivor · 22-05-2014 12:49pm

Bacchus wrote: »

Never heard this before. I thought both sites were offering pretty much the same facilities. What extra is in the Beamish proposal that isn't in the Albert Quay one?

The city/state are only investing in a multi-event centre - the rest is mere window dressing.

zetalambda · 22-05-2014 12:53pm

Rhys Essien wrote: »

I still dont get why people are comparing the two sites like for like.

The Albert Quay site is just the event centre.The Beamish site is a whole new city block effectively,which an event centre will be part of.To me,I dont even know what they need to decide.Its a no brainer.

I have a feeling that if the Beamish site is picked, Heineken and Bam will build the event center but it could be years before any of the other elements of the proposal are completed.

Pitcairn · 22-05-2014 1:10pm

Bacchus wrote: »

Never heard this before. I thought both sites were offering pretty much the same facilities. What extra is in the Beamish proposal that isn't in the Albert Quay one?

The conference and event centre on the Beamish site will face the funeral home on Proby's Quay with a new footbridge across the river.
But behind that there will be a whole new development of apartments, a few shops, a cinema and a new street that will run from Tuckey Street through Beamish and onto a new footbridge across the river to Crosses Green near the dole office bridge.

Albert Quay will just be a single standalone event and concert venue.

namloc1980 · 22-05-2014 1:44pm

If the Beamish site gets the go ahead what is the traffic management, car parking, public transport plan? From a traffic point of view the Beamish site is an utter bottle-neck.

D'Agger · 22-05-2014 1:50pm

Pitcairn wrote: »

The conference and event centre on the Beamish site will face the funeral home on Proby's Quay with a new footbridge across the river.
But behind that there will be a whole new development of apartments, a few shops, a cinema and a new street that will run from Tuckey Street through Beamish and onto a new footbridge across the river to Crosses Green near the dole office bridge.

Albert Quay will just be a single standalone event and concert venue.

FWIW I don't mind where this ends up, once Cork gets something it desperately needs in the end.

Could the new developments also take place were the event centre put in Albert Quay? apartments, cinema etc. - it would be close to the Elysium & the proposed new offices for Tyco.

This would tie in with the feasibility study for a luas styled public transport for Cork where I heard mentioned before the Quays in Cork would need to be developed for it to be feasible.

namloc1980 wrote: »

If the Beamish site gets the go ahead what is the traffic management, car parking, public transport plan? From a traffic point of view the Beamish site is an utter bottle-neck.

This is the big thing for me about the Beamish site - it is very central, which is both a pro and a con - construction would have the potential to make Cork an even bigger disaster to navigate around if it's not planned and controlled properly.

Either way, looking forward to a decision and hopefully some top acts coming to play in an events centre in Cork!

evilivor · 22-05-2014 1:51pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

If the Beamish site gets the go ahead what is the traffic management, car parking, public transport plan?

AugustusMinimus · 22-05-2014 2:22pm

D'Agger wrote: »

FWIW I don't mind where this ends up, once Cork gets something it desperately needs in the end.

Could the new developments also take place were the event centre put in Albert Quay? apartments, cinema etc. - it would be close to the Elysium & the proposed new offices for Tyco.

The Albert Quay location is in the middle of the financial district in Cork and will be boxed in on a number of sides by 4 lane roads. One of them being the N27. On the other hand, the Beamish site is surrounded by the pub district in Cork and IMO, would be an ideal location for a new cinema.

D'Agger wrote: »

This is the big thing for me about the Beamish site - it is very central, which is both a pro and a con - construction would have the potential to make Cork an even bigger disaster to navigate around if it's not planned and controlled properly.

The Albert Quay proposal is madness when it comes to traffic. We constantly hear complains of having Mahon Point placed beside the South Ring Road.

Yet people think its a good idea to place the Event Centre alongside the N27 which is the main North-South artery for traffic going through the city centre. Infact, that stretch of road carries the 2nd most amount of traffic going North-South in the city outside of the tunnel.

It would be lunacy of the highest order to have that event centre beside this road. Would cause utter gridlock.

Pitcairn · 22-05-2014 2:27pm

D'Agger wrote: »

Could the new developments also take place were the event centre put in Albert Quay? apartments, cinema etc. - it would be close to the Elysium & the proposed new offices for Tyco.

This would tie in with the feasibility study for a luas styled public transport for Cork where I heard mentioned before the Quays in Cork would need to be developed for it to be feasible.

There is only planning permission in place for the event centre. For other developments they would need to lodge a new application but the site isn't very large anyway so I doubt they could fit much more there.

THe Luas-style system would pass that area. The ultimate plan is to link Ballincollig to Mahon via the CIT, CUH, city centre and the Docklands but it won't be a LUAS, it will be a bendy bus type service.
They are currently piloting one of these services in Dublin.

nationaltransport.ie/bus-rapid-transit/

Bacchus · 22-05-2014 2:45pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The Albert Quay location is in the middle of the financial district in Cork and will be boxed in on a number of sides by 4 lane roads. One of them being the N27. On the other hand, the Beamish site is surrounded by the pub district in Cork and IMO, would be an ideal location for a new cinema.

As opposed to the 1 lane roads surrounding the Beamish factory? If the argument for/against either site is based purely on traffic flow, Albert Quay wins every time IMO. There are other sides to the argument though. I just find it a bit funny (no offence) when people use poor traffic infrastructure around Albert Quay as a reason to prefer the Beamish site.

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The Albert Quay proposal is madness when it comes to traffic. We constantly hear complains of having Mahon Point placed beside the South Ring Road.

I don't see what Mahon Point has to do with it. Mahon point has the problem of 1 slip road going in/out of it and is serviced by a single bus route. It is nothing like either the Albert Quay or Beamish factory sites.

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Yet people think its a good idea to place the Event Centre alongside the N27 which is the main North-South artery for traffic going through the city centre. Infact, that stretch of road carries the 2nd most amount of traffic going North-South in the city outside of the tunnel

Speaking of which, how much traffic will be drawn to the city center with the Beamish site? How much traffic will have to go through that link road ANYWAY if the Beamish site is chosen?

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

It would be lunacy of the highest order to have that event centre beside this road. Would cause utter gridlock.

I think it would be lunacy to have that centre in the middle of town surrounded by single lane roads. I won't argue that both sites have their problems but, as I said before, if we're talking strictly about traffic congestion I think the Beamish factory has bigger problems.

Lambofdave · 22-05-2014 3:42pm

Its a shame it couldn't have been built in part of irish rail site on horgan's quay, neither proposed sites lead me to happy thoughts if you take a car to an event there. Beamish site is been pushed hard for the benefit of others namely the pubs etc around there then to the benefit of the users of the centre.

Cork has to be one of the worst planned out cities ever joined up thinking has never been high on the agenda

Bacchus · 22-05-2014 3:52pm

Lambofdave wrote: »

Its a shame it couldn't have been built in part of irish rail site on horgan's quay, neither proposed sites lead me to happy thoughts if you take a car to an event there. Beamish site is been pushed hard for the benefit of others namely the pubs etc around there then to the benefit of the users of the centre.

Cork has to be one of the worst planned out cities ever joined up thinking has never been high on the agenda

Not a bad location now you mention it. Near train station which is great for those outside Cork. It's still walking distance to a lot of hotels, pubs and restaurants. Visually, it would be quite impressive along the harbour there. It would really help rejuvenate that side of town too. Like the other two sites though, traffic would be a problem but I could see it working there. Plenty of space to put in a mid sized multi-story car park too.

who_me · 22-05-2014 4:22pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The Albert Quay proposal is madness when it comes to traffic. We constantly hear complains of having Mahon Point placed beside the South Ring Road.

Yet people think its a good idea to place the Event Centre alongside the N27 which is the main North-South artery for traffic going through the city centre. Infact, that stretch of road carries the 2nd most amount of traffic going North-South in the city outside of the tunnel.

It would be lunacy of the highest order to have that event centre beside this road. Would cause utter gridlock.

I think you're focusing on an individual problem and ignoring others.

There are only three possibilities regarding the event centre and transport that I can see:

- You build the event centre immediately by a transport hub (bus/train/light rail). Neither proposal is, though the Albert Quay is closer to both the bus & train stations.

- You build the event centre immediately by a major transport artery to allow for road traffic to reach/exit the area quickly. Not many events are likely to be held in the week-day morning, lunch time or around 6pm, so there's less risk of contention with rush-hour traffic.

- You build the event centre away from major transport arteries, to avoid contention. This works well if the event attendees are local and/or arrive on foot.

The Albert Quay proposal is obviously the 2nd option, Beamish the 3rd. Personally, I think the Beamish proposal could have a massive impact on the city traffic. There isn't a large local population, so inevitably you'll have a LOT of cars, taxis and mini-buses setting-down to deliver the ~6,000 attendees. South Main St. is now single-lane, as is French's Quay, meaning a lot of potential for traffic to back-up onto Tuckey St. (one lane), Washington St. (one lane westward) and even onto Grand Parade.

Multi-functional events centre (Budget 2014)

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