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LEAP CARD - Updated Summary of Cards/Functionality Available - February 2014

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    #32
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    lxflyer wrote: »
    It's not coming up with that option with the period pass tickets, only the cash top-up.

    I'm guessing that those ticket machines/validators cannot handle loading other products.

    Oh god, you have to be kidding!!

    Will the idiocracy of Leap ever end!


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    #33
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,427 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    bikeman1 wrote: »
    Now we need leap to fully display and explain to passengers how they can go about getting all these new tickets.
    Agreed. I don't recall seeing a single ad for Leap any time I've been on a bus to be honest.


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    #34
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    bk wrote: »
    Oh god, you have to be kidding!!

    Will the idiocracy of Leap ever end!

    I doubt that's it, as the monthly tax savers will need to be renewed by Luas users and Irish Rail users using their respective validators. It's likely to be a restriction based on the operator the product is for.


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    #35
    stop
    Registered Users Posts: 886 ✭✭✭stop


    Call me crazy but I had a vision of integrated ticketing where one day I might be able to buy a bus ticket from a Luas ticket machine... or at the very least collect the ticket I've already paid for.


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    #36
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Would it not be simpler to just implement a zonal based system across all operators in the GDA, like every other European City with the added benefit of daily and weekly caps?


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    #37
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,558 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Alun wrote: »
    Agreed. I don't recall seeing a single ad for Leap any time I've been on a bus to be honest.

    You mustn't be looking very hard - there's an ad on every bus shelter timetable panel, plus I've seen numerous ads on the downstairs ad panels on the buses.

    LEAP fares have been displayed (along with cash fares) on the panel on the window beside the door since before the fare changes.


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    #38
    elusiveguy
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭elusiveguy


    I really hope they extend the rail use. getting so sick of monthly tickets not working after a week :(


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    #39
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,903 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    lxflyer wrote: »
    1. If you use the righthand validator in situation 1, it will deduct 1 day from the loaded rambler ticket. If you just want to pay-as-you-go, use the driver's ticket machine.

    2. Strictly speaking you should be paying the correct fares, but no it won't make any difference. Obviously this only applies where you have no rambler tickets loaded!!!

    Thank you very much!

    That is very clear.

    It's a pity there is not more information out there about this, as the loading of ramblers is new, and those who have been loading their purse up to now may Be confused. At least I was!

    Not anymore though.


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    #40
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    stop wrote: »
    Call me crazy but I had a vision of integrated ticketing where one day I might be able to buy a bus ticket from a Luas ticket machine... or at the very least collect the ticket I've already paid for.

    My dream is for there simply to be a ticket.

    Not a bus ticket or a tram ticket or a train ticket.

    A multi-modal ticket.

    I buy a single ticket to go from A to D.

    I might take bus + bus + bus.

    I might take bus + tram + tram.

    I might take tram + DART + bus.

    One journey, one ticket, one fare.

    Utopia??


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    #41
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,558 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Geuze wrote: »
    My dream is for there simply to be a ticket.

    Not a bus ticket or a tram ticket or a train ticket.

    A multi-modal ticket.

    I buy a single ticket to go from A to D.

    I might take bus + bus + bus.

    I might take bus + tram + tram.

    I might take tram + DART + bus.

    One journey, one ticket, one fare.

    Utopia??

    Well while you're waiting for that single product (which I would call a multi-mode equivalent of the existing bus only travel 90 ticket), you can get:

    1) The Dublin Bus Travel 90 ticket that allows 90 minutes unlimited travel on Dublin Bus services (available as a 10 trip smartcard - single versions available at the airport)

    or:

    2) A monthly/annual bus/rail/LUAS ticket

    In the meantime you will have to make do with fare capping as currently implemented.


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    #42
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,427 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    lxflyer wrote: »
    You mustn't be looking very hard - there's an ad on every bus shelter timetable panel, plus I've seen numerous ads on the downstairs ad panels on the buses.

    LEAP fares have been displayed (along with cash fares) on the panel on the window beside the door since before the fare changes.
    The thing is I know Leap exists already so wasn't looking for them The basic idea of advertising isn't that you should actively seek it out, it should jump out at you. Maybe they're just not eye catching enough?


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    #43
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Geuze wrote: »
    One journey, one ticket, one fare.

    Utopia??

    Here, here, I couldn't agree more.

    And such utopia does exist, it exists in Amsterdam where just such a system exists.

    There you are charged for the total distance travelled (per km) irrespective of what you use or how many of them you use.

    And really there is no reason why we can't implement such an excellent system with Leap.

    Instead we have a mess of stages, daily caps, weekly caps, multioperator daily/weekly caps, various single operator period tickets. Total mess.


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    #44
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    bk wrote: »
    Here, here, I couldn't agree more.

    And such utopia does exist, it exists in Amsterdam where just such a system exists.

    There you are charged for the total distance travelled (per km) irrespective of what you use or how many of them you use.

    And really there is no reason why we can't implement such an excellent system with Leap.

    Instead we have a mess of stages, daily caps, weekly caps, multioperator daily/weekly caps, various single operator period tickets. Total mess.

    The old IT catchphase seems apt
    6bf85180561235ff71be6cec1fc147b6.jpg


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    #45
    lfc84
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭lfc84


    and multiple validators on buses !

    im visiting in this june and found it very difficult to get my head round when compared to London's oyster

    I still ordered the leap card though but I wont even begin to say I follow it. i'll end up asking people


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    #46
    XPS_Zero
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭XPS_Zero


    stop wrote: »
    Call me crazy but I had a vision of integrated ticketing where one day I might be able to buy a bus ticket from a Luas ticket machine... or at the very least collect the ticket I've already paid for.

    Good luck with that wait, our political leadership on all sides of the aisle are a bunch of vision-less incompetents who can't see past the next election so to expect common sense policy from them is a bit of a leap.
    Take just your small point about integrated ticketing, get a bus ticket from a Luas machine? You can't even get half the LUAS tickets from the luas machine!

    There are those of us out there who are odd, and use the Luas and the DART. I was wondering a while back if there were LUAS-DART combos, the Luas website made no mention of them so I asked at several Irish Rail stations, nope, nope, nope...then one guy there longer siad yes there is.
    I've since found out that Platform II have written to LUAS and Irish Rail asking why these are only available in IR offices and not in Luas machines when they are basically a major ticketing option - no reply.
    I used to get these tickets a lot, then more recently a LUAS-DART-BUS combi monthly which was great.
    But since LEAP capping has come in these tickets are basically pointless as the weekly LEAP cap for all services x 4 weeks is less than what these old magnetic strip tickets charge.
    I still think this should be an option in LUAS machines it's ridicilous that LUAS-BUS tickets are there and LUAS-DART tickets are not.
    You should have the option of buying a paper ticket or a LEAP version of it for around the same price.

    Take another magnetic strip ticket: the daily BUS-DART rambler, it's €13. The Daily DART-LUAS-BUS cap is €10...so why are they selling a ticket (whos price they hiked this year from €12 widening the gap) covering 2 services for more than it costs to get 3 services for the same period???:confused:

    Don't tell me it's an incentive to switch to LEAP, I just don't think they're that bright, I think it's that way cos they are morons :) and the simplest explanations usually the correct one.


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    #47
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #48
    XPS_Zero
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭XPS_Zero


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    It's hardly much of a perk most people using the Airport will use aircoach or the dart-airbus combi options or take the Metro that was due for completion in 2007...oh wait...never mind...
    If you're buying a DART-BUS Day Rambler it's probably because you're zipping around the city not heading to the airport.

    I just get the sense that nobody's actually ever sat down and thought all this stuff through in a clear logical way, I often wonder what ministers do all day if basic stuff like this is wrong years on end and nobody's looking at it


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    #49
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,558 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    XPS_Zero wrote: »
    Good luck with that wait, our political leadership on all sides of the aisle are a bunch of vision-less incompetents who can't see past the next election so to expect common sense policy from them is a bit of a leap.
    Take just your small point about integrated ticketing, get a bus ticket from a Luas machine? You can't even get half the LUAS tickets from the luas machine!

    There are those of us out there who are odd, and use the Luas and the DART. I was wondering a while back if there were LUAS-DART combos, the Luas website made no mention of them so I asked at several Irish Rail stations, nope, nope, nope...then one guy there longer siad yes there is.
    I've since found out that Platform II have written to LUAS and Irish Rail asking why these are only available in IR offices and not in Luas machines when they are basically a major ticketing option - no reply.
    I used to get these tickets a lot, then more recently a LUAS-DART-BUS combi monthly which was great.
    But since LEAP capping has come in these tickets are basically pointless as the weekly LEAP cap for all services x 4 weeks is less than what these old magnetic strip tickets charge.
    I still think this should be an option in LUAS machines it's ridicilous that LUAS-BUS tickets are there and LUAS-DART tickets are not.
    You should have the option of buying a paper ticket or a LEAP version of it for around the same price.

    Take another magnetic strip ticket: the daily BUS-DART rambler, it's €13. The Daily DART-LUAS-BUS cap is €10...so why are they selling a ticket (whos price they hiked this year from €12 widening the gap) covering 2 services for more than it costs to get 3 services for the same period???:confused:

    Don't tell me it's an incentive to switch to LEAP, I just don't think they're that bright, I think it's that way cos they are morons :) and the simplest explanations usually the correct one.



    The one day bus/rail ticket is one of several tickets that I believe that the NTA have said are to be withdrawn this year as LEAP functionality increases.
    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.



    Nor do you get the 747 on the 1 day Bus/Rail ticket.


    To be honest, it's another glitch - until LEAP is fully rolled out there will be some issues like this.


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    #50
    XPS_Zero
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭XPS_Zero


    What irritates me is they found time to sit down and plan fare hikes for those tickets but while they were at it gave no thought to the ticket structures or the total contradictions in the system like in some intercity journeys student tickets being more expensive than adult ones.

    Then there are tickets they withdrew years ago that were brilliant tickets that should have been kept IMO like the DART NITELINK which was real integrated ticketing long before LEAP where you could get a DART into Dublin CC and the Nitelink home on the same ticket.
    Theres no real innovation these days with stuff like that their sole and excusive focus with the exception of the caps decision has been fare hike after fare hike after fare hike, the p1ss take price increase in the Travel 90 over the last decade is proof of that.
    We don't allow open returns, all has to be within the same day.
    We don't sell child tickets in the machines yet we give out to parents if the booking office was closed and there was no way to buy one.
    We have very poor and pricy options for tourists.
    We shaft students in a number of ways.
    IR have total inconsistency in how they apply their own rules, you can buy a ticket on the train here...BUT NOT HERE YOU FARE EVADING SPONGER SCUM!!!...

    When they decided to build 2 metro lines and or a major alteration to the DART system and the LUAS network someone should have set down and put together a vision for real change, Transport 21 was meant to be that but it seems to have been more colorful press releases and videos than actual thought into real substantive useful changes.
    Then of course the central problem: they don't involve the passenger in any of this. Same attitude problem as the rest of the Irish PS , we exist to service them not the other way around.


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    #51
    Lifelike
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭Lifelike


    The introduction of the Leap card should have coincided with the introduction of a flat fare of €2 leap/€3 cash on Dublin Bus, with maybe a 50c surcharge for Xpresso and Outer Suburban services. Such an arrangement would greatly encourage take-up of the card, speed up boarding and make the bus much more attractive to use.


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    #52
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    bk wrote: »
    Here, here, I couldn't agree more.

    And such utopia does exist, it exists in Amsterdam where just such a system exists.

    There you are charged for the total distance travelled (per km) irrespective of what you use or how many of them you use.

    And really there is no reason why we can't implement such an excellent system with Leap.

    Instead we have a mess of stages, daily caps, weekly caps, multioperator daily/weekly caps, various single operator period tickets. Total mess.

    I think the Amsterdam system is fixed fee (0.90??) + distance-based variable fare?

    German systems seem to be single fare (quite high), e.g. 2.50 allows you 90min of one-way multi-modal travel??

    Leap/Oyster seems to suggest adopting the Amsterdam system, which involves tag on and off at each mode.

    German systems mean no tagging on or off.


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    #53
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Amsterdam system needs to know the km between all stops, that seems ok??

    I presume the Ams system has a daily price cap as well??

    Or you can load a day pass onto the smartcard?


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    #54
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Geuze wrote: »
    I think the Amsterdam system is fixed fee (0.90??) + distance-based variable fare?

    That is correct, there is a 90 cent base fare when you first board and then a per km charge which ranges between 10 and 15 cent depending on the service you take *.

    You only pay the base fare on the first vehicle you enter, you can then transfer for free within 35 minutes of your last tag-off.

    So lets say you take a bus for 2km (with a per km charge of 10 cent) and then a tram for 4km (with a 15 cent per km charge), it would cost:

    .90 + (2km * .10) + (4km * .15) = €1.70

    It might sound complicated, but it is actually very easy, you don't really think about it at all, you just tag-on and tag-off at every bus/tram/metro that you use and the card works it out for you.

    It is also a very fair system as it is basically based on the distance you travel. Non of the craziness we have here in Dublin where if you travel right across the city on one bus, you pay significantly less then a person who travels half that length but has to use two buses!

    * The per km charge differs as the card actually works across the whole of the Netherlands, so some local bus services might have a lower per km charge, while the metro has a higher charge.

    This is actually a major advantage, as it allows for a great deal of flexibility. For instance if such a system was implemented here in Ireland, you could imagine the Swords Express or Airocach having a higher per km charge (because of the higher quality of the services and buses) then say Dublin Bus.

    While they don't do it in the Netherlands, you could also vary the rate depending on the time, for instance offer a lower per km charge off peak and with a higher charge after midnight (e.g. nitelink service).

    It really is probably the best, most fairest and most flexible ticket system in the world. Such a system wasn't possible in the past with cash fares, but with technology of GPS and smartcards it is definitely possible today.

    I really hope the NTA copy this system, it would revolutionise Dublin public transport IMO.
    Geuze wrote: »
    Amsterdam system needs to know the km between all stops, that seems ok??

    I presume the Ams system has a daily price cap as well??

    Or you can load a day pass onto the smartcard?

    I'm not sure they have caps, but I do know they have 24/48/72/96/120/144/168 hour all modes passes, which can either be loaded on the card or bought as a separate paper ticket (with a chip in it obviously).

    They also have weekly and monthly passes for regular commuters.

    The bus knows the distance it has travelled based on the GPS on the bus, obviously trams and metro know the distance based on the details of the stations. Not a big deal with the technology we have today.

    The crazy thing is we now have all the technology in place to do this today (smart card, GPS on buses, etc.) we just have to do it.


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    #55
    ordinary_girl
    Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭ordinary_girl


    I'm confused about this, are 30 day student bus tickets still available as a smart card or the next time I get my bus ticket will I have to get it as a LEAP card on my student travel card? Is it still possible to get the papery smart card ones?


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    #56
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,558 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    ordinary_girl wrote: »
    I'm confused about this, are 30 day student bus tickets still available as a smart card or the next time I get my bus ticket will I have to get it as a LEAP card on my student travel card? Is it still possible to get the papery smart card ones?



    Why bother?


    All you need to do is go into a shop and ask them to load a student 30 day rambler ticket onto your LEAP card? LEAP is a smartcard!!


    Why would you still need a paper ticket as well?


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    #57
    Pablo Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Pablo Sanchez


    So i bought a weekly ticket for the Dart at a cost of €40.50, but i have a Leap card as well. (im new to this commuting lark)

    Looking at the daily capping rates that apply for the week on the Dart (literally just found out about this now), the max i would pay with leap is €35.50(€5 cheaper), or if i use multiple forms of transport it would be €40 (0.50c cheaper).

    Going forward am i better to keep using the leap or get a monthly Dart ticket in March?

    Chap in the ticket office advised that the cheapest option was the weekly ticket, never mentioned anything about how i would save using my Leap.

    Finally, i have one of the original non personalised Leap cards, i assume that it the cap will be automatically applied with this card type?

    Thanks and sorry for the long read


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    #58
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,558 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Pablo Sanchez wrote: »
    So i bought a weekly ticket for the Dart at a cost of €40.50, but i have a Leap card as well. (im new to this commuting lark)

    Looking at the daily capping rates that apply for the week on the Dart (literally just found out about this now), the max i would pay with leap is €35.50(€5 cheaper), or if i use multiple forms of transport it would be €40 (0.50c cheaper).

    Going forward am i better to keep using the leap or get a monthly Dart ticket in March?

    Chap in the ticket office advised that the cheapest option was the weekly ticket, never mentioned anything about how i would save using my Leap.

    Finally, i have one of the original non personalised Leap cards, i assume that it the cap will be automatically applied with this card type?

    Thanks and sorry for the long read

    To answer your main question, I need to ask another question, which is basically what your usage of DART is:

    Are you going to be making a standard journey every day on DART/Suburban rail, e.g. Dun Laoghaire to Grand Canal Dock, or will you be using it for other trips as well?

    And if it is a standard journey - what is it?

    Capping applies to all LEAP cards, registered or not.


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    #59
    Pablo Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Pablo Sanchez


    lxflyer wrote: »
    To answer your main question, I need to ask another question, which is basically what your usage of DART is:

    Are you going to be making a standard journey every day on DART/Suburban rail, e.g. Dun Laoghaire to Grand Canal Dock, or will you be using it for other trips as well?

    And if it is a standard journey - what is it?

    Capping applies to all LEAP cards, registered or not.

    Thanks for the response.

    Monday to Friday Greystones to Tara st, few if any additional trips, on Dart or any other transport mode during a given week.


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    #60
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,558 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    OK, well then your best options are:

    LEAP weekly pay-as-you-go capping - €35.50 (or €40 if you use another mode)
    Monthly Rail only ticket - €134 and use LEAP pay-as-you-go for the bus/LUAS

    The monthly ticket is available under the Taxsaver scheme, if your employer will participate - details at www.taxsaver.ie

    With the taxsaver option - it reduces your gross pay and therefore reduces your tax, PRSI and USC. Therefore the monthly ticket could effectively cost €67 if you are on the higher tax rate or just over €95 if on the lower rate.


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    #61
    Pablo Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Pablo Sanchez


    lxflyer wrote: »
    OK, well then your best options are:

    LEAP weekly pay-as-you-go capping - €35.50 (or €40 if you use another mode)
    Monthly Rail only - €134

    The monthly ticket is available under the Taxsaver scheme, if your employer will participate - details at www.taxsaver.ie

    With the taxsaver option - it reduces your gross pay and therefore reduces your tax, PRSI and USC. Therefore the monthly ticket could effectively cost €67 if you are on the higher tax rate or just over €95 if on the lower rate.

    Thats excellent, i really appreciate your help lx


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