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Dublin Bus - can anyone be happy with the price and service?
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Unfortunately the 40 is one of those routes that really does get hit by traffic. And when things slow down that route generally is one of the worst affected. Having to trundle along Kilmainham and to pass through Ballyfermot does not help. However the pre-Christmas traffic is playing havoc with many routes and their timetables.
Lots of bus routes seemed to be experiencing severe delays last night with very heavy traffic in the city centre. I noticed several buses inbound in Rathmines around 7pm operating in set down mode in an effort to get themselves back on schedule, and in particular I noted three northbound 15s bunched together.
As some else suggested, the N4 corridor is probably your best bet with much more choice if you can get to it.
RTPI really is not much use at/near the terminus as it is generally reading from the schedule until a couple of minutes before departure and if the bus that forms that journey is running late then controllers have to make decisions about how to get the bus back on schedule and keep a service running at the same time. But 50 minute waits on a core route just simply should not be happening.
Sadly it's the 38D from Damastown Industrial estate. Walking anywhere from there to get a bus is going to be a fair trek.
The problem is a 50 minute wait with a bus journey that's twice as long as one would expect. As a result, including the wait it takes almost 3 hours to get somewhere when it should take one.
I'll be lodging a formal complaint after Christmas, lets see if it happens tonight again
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http://www.payzone.ie/paywithpayzone.jsp?pt=74
400 locations in Dublin.
Sometimes I think people just want things to be sh*t so they can have a moan.
You're not far off the mark there I feel....
Seems there's 500 Leapcard specific Payzone Agents in the Greater Dublin Area now......http://www.payzone.ie/paywithpayzone.jsp?pt=74
It is interesting,on a broader scale,just how angry those remaining cash-payers are now becoming when advised of the Cheaper Alternative...particularly those who "go off on one" about the €2.80 Fare....If it's calmly explained to them that They are choosing to pay €2.80 when they could be paying €2.05,(Lower than it was in 2012) many get SERIOUSLY agitated and respond in that vein......
Interestingly,most foreign folk,when told of a cheaper alternative will usually ask if I sell the Leapcard !!!...:P
Personally ,I believe this Leapcard Soft-Launch mallarkey has outlived it's usefulness,and it's time to get real about saving people from themselves...Introduce a Flat CASH FARE of €3.00Adult / €2.00Child and let it sort itself out.
What is transpiring on the platform is the emergence of a dei-facto Flat Leapcard Fare of €2.05,as it's now becoming THE most requested Leapcard amount....with many of it's users then making use of the Leap90 Discount for onward journeys....I notice a LOT more bus chasing/hopping now being factored into the Leapcard users daily routine....All a welcome and long-overdue element of Bus use I believe !!
Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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What is transpiring on the platform is the emergence of a dei-facto Flat Leapcard Fare of €2.05,as it's now becoming THE most requested Leapcard amount....
The second lowest fare was always the top seller, if you get the lowest fare the driver will give you a funny look, knowing you are going further than that fare.
Pay the second lowest fare and you get no problems.
Add that to the fact that ticket inspectors dont work after 17:00 why would anyone pay top fare?0 -
Sadly it's the 38D from Damastown Industrial estate. Walking anywhere from there to get a bus is going to be a fair trek.
The problem is a 50 minute wait with a bus journey that's twice as long as one would expect. As a result, including the wait it takes almost 3 hours to get somewhere when it should take one.
I'll be lodging a formal complaint after Christmas, lets see if it happens tonight again
Complain when it happens and every time it happens get the number for the depot and the control room and ring when the bus doesn't turn up and get anyone who works with you and uses that bus to do the same, also pop of a complaint email to Dublin bus and cc the NTA.
The more you complain then if, when that bus is late or whatever then the controller will know that just not covering that departure will result in complaints, if no one complains they have a tendency to presume no one was really affected so they will continue to let that journey slip, if there us nothing the controller can do keep complaining so that it becomes a nuisance for those that make the decisions so that they will have to correct the timetable to ensure the departure is covered.
Keep complaining and get as many as you can to do the same, remember when faced with a choice most people choose the path of least resistance that includes deciding where buses need to be placed.0 -
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To the OP question, I'm more than happy with the price (though I'd be a heavy user and easily reach the cap).
The service on the vast majority of routes is far better than most people think in my opinion. Last night my commute involved the 70, 270, 239, 76, 56A and 79. It all worked together seamlessly off-peak, even with infrequent or orbital routes. Most city centre routes are also fine. The 130 is excellent, 40D, 27B, 31s, 25s.
Where the problem lies in the service is the butchered arterial cross-city routes where you would think more effort is worth it to DB. The service level on the 4, 16, 13, 39A, 15 and 145 is terrible. To be waiting the scheduled 20-30 minutes for any of these routes (or 60 minutes for the 4) is ridiculous from a customer perspective, before you add reliability issues around how long the routes are.
Then there's the 27 and 40 whose scheduled frequency is fine at peak, but have all sorts of 40C and especially 27C caveats. The one successful cross city route is possibly the 14, but it is much shorter compared to the major corridor routes.
It's a very odd situation to have it that the high volume, dependable-custom routes provide a worse experience than those on lower demand, infrequent or orbital routes. Remind me which the NTA is focusing on again...
Some excellent contributions to this thread for sure !
When the chaff-filter is used,the actual important issues stand-out.
These are,in the main infrastructural and planning related,both area's where Dublin's development was well and truly hi-jacked by a,by now,well known and appreciated cabal of dangerously incompetent middle ranking administrators spread through Central and Local Administration.
The beginning of this rot appears to have been in the mid 1950's when the first attempts at high-density urban living were revealed..a lá Ballymun.
It's been dealt with on so many fora,but for me the Ballymun Public Transport experience can be summed up in one class of Bus....The Short-Wheelbase C,which was fully expected to provide any and all of those new-living folks Public Transport requirements for ever and a day.....
In reality,Irish Public Administration has never really shrugged off that principle,of the lowest possible dominator being the most favoured one administratively......even the much praised Luas,had a seriously blonde introduction in which the RPA's absolute insistance on 30 mtr tramset's threatened to implode the Red-Line,until the RPA were dragged,kicking & screaming into the 10mtr extension (Which they INSISTED would not be possible)
The routes mentioned in dfx's post are the,by now,infamous,products of the well-meaning "Network Direct" programme,which of itself remains a good basis for the City's Bus Service.
However,as can be seen daily,it CANNOT work if attempted on top of a Civic unwillingness to actively recognize the requirements.
This is NOT London...DCC are NOT Tfl....and we need to be wary of attempting TfL style solutions to problems without any guarantee of TfL style centralized resources to provide the muscle.
dfx's final paragraph just about sums it all up really.....
Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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My issue is that they should not have been looking to move most people over to Leap, but to move most people over to some sort of weekly or monthly passes. IMO, of course.
On a general note, however, it's interesting to see that there are several problems in Dublin and however you slice up looking at little details, like how Leap works, it doesn't deal with the problems. Dublin is a low density city which doesn't have a flat fare on its bus route. The different modes of traffic are badly integrated to be frank and if you need a mode or vehicle change mid journey, your journey time is generally not reliable.
Arguments that "we subsidise Dublin Bus and it's still expensive and lousy" miss the fact that we also don't want to live in 5 story high apartment blocks and even where we do plan them, we don't plan them coherently with public transport in mind, that really, if you wanted a reasonably decent and regular tram or metro system from UCD to the city centre, it really is only worth it if you level most of the houses in Dublin 4 and replace them with apartment blocks.
There's a choice to be made here and I don't see Dubs making it in favour of public transport. You only have to look at the property demand to know that the decisions are made in favour of low density housing. And the cost of that is an expensive and comparatively slow public transport system.
Just about sum's it all up really...excellent concise post....essentially we,as a society,remain ambivalent to beneficial change,particularly mid-to long term change.
The Leapcard,in microcosm,shows that,as large numbers of people grumble and snarl about the price of the Busfare,whilst steadfastly ignoring a FREE means of securing a 20% cheaper mode.....
We are an odd culture,in a way,that often strives to maximize the perceived injustice,yet ignores the advances....(€2.15 fare reduced to €2.05 )
I'm afraid,it's a Top down situation,cos we are definitely not wired to effect the changes from the Bottom up !!Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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Some excellent contributions to this thread for sure !
When the chaff-filter is used,the actual important issues stand-out.
These are,in the main infrastructural and planning related,both area's where Dublin's development was well and truly hi-jacked by a,by now,well known and appreciated cabal of dangerously incompetent middle ranking administrators spread through Central and Local Administration.
The beginning of this rot appears to have been in the mid 1950's when the first attempts at high-density urban living were revealed..a lá Ballymun.
It's been dealt with on so many fora,but for me the Ballymun Public Transport experience can be summed up in one class of Bus....The Short-Wheelbase C,which was fully expected to provide any and all of those new-living folks Public Transport requirements for ever and a day.....
In reality,Irish Public Administration has never really shrugged off that principle,of the lowest possible dominator being the most favoured one administratively......even the much praised Luas,had a seriously blonde introduction in which the RPA's absolute insistance on 30 mtr tramset's threatened to implode the Red-Line,until the RPA were dragged,kicking & screaming into the 10mtr extension (Which they INSISTED would not be possible)
The routes mentioned in dfx's post are the,by now,infamous,products of the well-meaning "Network Direct" programme,which of itself remains a good basis for the City's Bus Service.
However,as can be seen daily,it CANNOT work if attempted on top of a Civic unwillingness to actively recognize the requirements.
This is NOT London...DCC are NOT Tfl....and we need to be wary of attempting TfL style solutions to problems without any guarantee of TfL style centralized resources to provide the muscle.
dfx's final paragraph just about sums it all up really.....
Network direct is OK but minus the cross city routes, they are too long, unreliable, difficult to regulate without depriving huge swathes of a bus service. and have made the amalgamated routes less useful not more. With the resources currently in the cross city routes they can provide good reliable separate routes but the sum of the parts doesn't make a better cross city route.0 -
Network direct is OK but minus the cross city routes, they are too long, unreliable, difficult to regulate without depriving huge swathes of a bus service. and have made the amalgamated routes less useful not more. With the resources currently in the cross city routes they can provide good reliable separate routes but the sum of the parts doesn't make a better cross city route.
That's my point....without the guarantee of the non-Dublin Bus specific elements the potential benefits cannot be achieved......not even close Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
0 -
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[/B]
Some excellent contributions to this thread for sure !
When the chaff-filter is used,the actual important issues stand-out.
These are,in the main infrastructural and planning related,both area's where Dublin's development was well and truly hi-jacked by a,by now,well known and appreciated cabal of dangerously incompetent middle ranking administrators spread through Central and Local Administration.
The beginning of this rot appears to have been in the mid 1950's when the first attempts at high-density urban living were revealed..a lá Ballymun.
It's been dealt with on so many fora,but for me the Ballymun Public Transport experience can be summed up in one class of Bus....The Short-Wheelbase C,which was fully expected to provide any and all of those new-living folks Public Transport requirements for ever and a day.....
In reality,Irish Public Administration has never really shrugged off that principle,of the lowest possible dominator being the most favoured one administratively......even the much praised Luas,had a seriously blonde introduction in which the RPA's absolute insistance on 30 mtr tramset's threatened to implode the Red-Line,until the RPA were dragged,kicking & screaming into the 10mtr extension (Which they INSISTED would not be possible)
The routes mentioned in dfx's post are the,by now,infamous,products of the well-meaning "Network Direct" programme,which of itself remains a good basis for the City's Bus Service.
However,as can be seen daily,it CANNOT work if attempted on top of a Civic unwillingness to actively recognize the requirements.
This is NOT London...DCC are NOT Tfl....and we need to be wary of attempting TfL style solutions to problems without any guarantee of TfL style centralized resources to provide the muscle.
dfx's final paragraph just about sums it all up really.....
Says the guy who thanked a post accusing another poster of spending all income on cigarettes and booze.0 -
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