Dublin Bus - can anyone be happy with the price and service?

LXFlyer · 16-12-2014 6:49pm

For the record, I am not saying that there are things that don't need improving - there certainly are and I could come up with a good list. Most of them are refining the changes that have already started.

However, going around saying that nothing has improved is living in la-la land.

end of the road · 16-12-2014 6:51pm

lxflyer wrote: »

routes that zig zagged in and out of estates

in fairness they are socially necessary routes. i think having such routes as well as the QBC routes is a good thing where possible

cdebru · 16-12-2014 7:01pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

I complained three times for very good reasons and only received a response once.

Complained how ? to who and when ? All complaints are acknowledged within 4 working days and 95% have a reply to the complaint within 15 days, that is the Dublin bus customer charter, it is also part of their contract with the NTA.

dublinstevie · 16-12-2014 9:34pm

Alun wrote: »

Not every bus, perhaps, but many shops employ the concept of 'secret shoppers', so why not extend that idea to service providers such as DB?

I think you will find out they in fact do have something similar to a secret shopper.A plain clothes monitor (inspector grade) boards buses and monitors the drivers driving and customer service.each driver is monitored twice per 12mth period.

Alun · 16-12-2014 9:35pm

dublinstevie wrote: »

I think you will find out they in fact do have something similar to a secret shopper.A plain clothes monitor (inspector grade) boards buses and monitors the drivers driving and customer service.each driver is monitored twice per 12mth period.

Wouldn't these guys be known to the drivers though?

end of the road · 16-12-2014 9:46pm

Alun wrote: »

Wouldn't these guys be known to the drivers though?

maybe, maybe not. but either way its the best system that can be afforded unless someone pays for something better. so who is willing? the government aren't, the passenger probably isn't.

Spanish Eyes · 16-12-2014 9:47pm

I use DB on the N4 corridor. Have to say it's a great service, especially now that real time info is available.

We don't have Luas or Dart here, so the bus lane all the way from Liffey Valley into town is amazing, specially when using the 25a and 25b via the Chapelizod by pass.

I have one gripe. The traffic layout at Church Street Junction is a joke. So the bus pulls in to the stop, and then has to wait if the light is green for the Left filter.

But that is minor, in the general scheme.

The bus lane in fairness actually comes to a grinding halt at Ormond Quay and beyond. Delivery vans, other buses (not DB) and messers in the bus lane turning left.

Have to say that every time the bus nears the traffic lights at Ha'penny Bridge and the one before it, it is ALWAYS red. I say to myself.... "see a bus, put on the red light!"

Just having a rant. Overall I'm happy with my service, a few tweaks and it would be massive!!

jimmycrackcorm · 17-12-2014 12:36am

Glinda wrote:

LX flyer - I appreciate your point, but two bad experiences out of five journeys is around 40%. I don't think my experience is unusual.

I generally cycle to work. But on the days I take the bus I use the app to tell when the bus will be at my stop which means in the morning I never have to wait more than a couple of minutes or in the evening usually 5 or 6. I get on and tap my leap card so I don't have any experience of rude interactions. I don't see how it is so difficult to use the service efficiently.

cdebru · 17-12-2014 1:24am

Alun wrote: »

Wouldn't these guys be known to the drivers though?

Inspectors from different depots, and I think they bring in people from outside the company as well.

AlekSmart · 17-12-2014 2:41am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I use DB on the N4 corridor. Have to say it's a great service, especially now that real time info is available.

We don't have Luas or Dart here, so the bus lane all the way from Liffey Valley into town is amazing, specially when using the 25a and 25b via the Chapelizod by pass.

I have one gripe. The traffic layout at Church Street Junction is a joke. So the bus pulls in to the stop, and then has to wait if the light is green for the Left filter.

But that is minor, in the general scheme.

The bus lane in fairness actually comes to a grinding halt at Ormond Quay and beyond. Delivery vans, other buses (not DB) and messers in the bus lane turning left.

Have to say that every time the bus nears the traffic lights at Ha'penny Bridge and the one before it, it is ALWAYS red. I say to myself.... "see a bus, put on the red light!"

Just having a rant. Overall I'm happy with my service, a few tweaks and it would be massive!!

This is a very interesting and relevant observation.

This particular Bus-Stop is unacceptably dangerous for both Bus/Car/Cyclist and Passenger alike.

It has been raised at so many safety meetings that by now it's gone beyond lunacy.

I would dearly like to have a name and title for whomever sanctioned this Stop,with perhaps an explanation as to what they were smoking at the time.

It appears that all and sundry involved are waiting for a fatality before leaping into action to remove it !

I do hope Spanish Eyes,that you will forward your observations on this to Dublin Bus and perhaps Dublin City Council,as neither appear concerned at the opinions from Busdrivers.

xOxSinéadxOx · 17-12-2014 3:16am

The service where I live is alright as a few bus routes go past my bus stop. I get the bus to work and I am on the bus for between 5 and 10mins. The cost of the journey bugs me, 2.05, just seems really expensive to me for such a short journey?

Polar101 · 17-12-2014 7:54am

I'm just going to answer to the original post.

If I take a bus every day, my commute costs €20 a week. That's not a whole lot of money (used to be €27.50 2 months ago - but now I get a discount on a 2nd Leap fare). So yes, I am quite happy with the price, I would assume a car would be more expensive. I could also pay €39 in cash, but that wouldn't make any sense to me.

Service - the drivers are generally fine, but thanks to recent timetable changes, the service is less reliable. Fortunately there is more than one option, including walking.

eejoynt · 17-12-2014 8:32am

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I generally cycle to work. But on the days I take the bus I use the app to tell when the bus will be at my stop which means in the morning I never have to wait more than a couple of minutes or in the evening usually 5 or 6. I get on and tap my leap card so I don't have any experience of rude interactions. I don't see how it is so difficult to use the service efficiently.

This describes my experience accurately. As to high cash fares , I am reminded of the reaction of the italian prime minister, count Cavour when the first state lottery was introduced, he called it
' a tax on idiocy '

cdebru · 17-12-2014 11:28am

AlekSmart wrote: »

This is a very interesting and relevant observation.

This particular Bus-Stop is unacceptably dangerous for both Bus/Car/Cyclist and Passenger alike.

It has been raised at so many safety meetings that by now it's gone beyond lunacy.

I would dearly like to have a name and title for whomever sanctioned this Stop,with perhaps an explanation as to what they were smoking at the time.

It appears that all and sundry involved are waiting for a fatality before leaping into action to remove it !

I do hope Spanish Eyes,that you will forward your observations on this to Dublin Bus and perhaps Dublin City Council,as neither appear concerned at the opinions from Busdrivers.

Agreed I have mentioned it here before, that stop pretty much breaks every rule on TFL bus stop guidelines, there is zero visibility for drivers or prospective passengers until a couple of yards before the stop, the actual stop is about 2 feet from a loading bay, the stop leaves the bus inside of a busy left turning only lane, the stop is too close to traffic lights, it leaves buses having to drive straight on out of a left turning only lane, there is no approach to the stop to allow the bus to get straight for the stop, there is no exit room from the stop, there are far too many routes using the stop.
I think you are right they are waiting for a fatality, and my guess is it will probably be a cyclist who is killed here sooner or later.

circadian · 17-12-2014 6:47pm

Can't say I'm happy with the service.

There is one direct bus from work in the evening and gets you to town anywhere between 35-50 mins depending on traffic which is great.

The problem is, it doesn't show up and it occurs once every week or two. This means there's a bus load of people waiting up to an hour for the next bus which takes about 1.5 hours to get to town since it isn't direct.

So right now, I should be getting home around 6. However, since the bus hasn't shown up again, it's more like 8 that I'll be getting home.

Don't get me started on the timetable format.

paulosam · 17-12-2014 6:59pm

Prices have risen and service has only gotten worse. Lovely that West Dublin has been pretty much ignored in future public transport planning projects too, so I'm stuck with Dublin Bus's shoddy service as I can't afford to run a car.

I was stuck waiting for a 40 in the wind and rain for 50 minutes (just a few stops from the Liffey Valley Terminus) last Thursday afternoon, despite real time assuring me that one was due in 10 mins for the duration of my wait. Was packed when it did arrive and I had to stand all the way into town.

Was waiting over an hour for a 76 last Tuesday afternoon as well.

rubberdiddies · 18-12-2014 11:12am

cdebru wrote: »

€13.50 family one day ticket for 2 adults and up to 4 children unlimited travel for the day.

Stephens green Q park €4 per hour plus fuel say for a 30km round trip about €7 and other costs depends how long you are staying and how far you are travelling but definitely not far cheaper

a 3 hour stay and fuel ignoring insurance or road tax is going to be at least €20, if you insist on paying the highest possible fare that is your choice but don't use it as an excuse for your poor choices.

i wasnt using it as an excuse at all. Because they lost me as a customer a long time ago due to the high prices, i wasn't aware of the €13.50 ticket. i know Irish Rail have/had something similar but never knew about Dublin Bus.

i still don't feel it is a 'poor choice' as you say. my choice for comfort, time and cost is now the car. don't get me wrong, i had a taxsaver ticket for years and prior to that used buses every single day for years, but now it's an expensive and less comfortable way for me to travel with children. cant recall anytime i have ever paid €4 per hour for car parking.

i pay €2 per hour in the Ilac.

bk · 18-12-2014 12:52pm

In my opinion, the problem is we are paying very high prices, some of the highest prices in Europe for Public transport *, but in return we are getting a very poor service, in particular with Dublin Bus.

Anyone who has travelled widely in Europe and uses public transport, knows that bus services are generally far superior to DB (proper night time 24 hour service, proper weekend/sunday service, speedy service with low dwell times, proper multidoor operation, flat fare, etc.) and in most of Europe, what we pay for a single fare, will normally get you a T90 style ticket that works across bus, tram and Metro.

We are paying top dollar for frankly a low quality service.

Either DB needs to improve substantially for the money we pay or alternatively we should be paying far less to reflect the poor quality of service delivered.

* And please don't blame it on lack of subsidy. While the direct subsidy from government is low, it doesn't include the very substantial indirect subsidies of the free travel scheme, the taxsaver scheme (a massive subsidy), buses bought for DB by the NTA, garages, bus stations and depots paid for by the tax payer, etc. When all these are included, DB's subsidy is equivalent to the EU average subsidy.

There really is no excuse for the high ticket prices we are paying (yes even Leap).

mmmcake · 18-12-2014 1:18pm

bk wrote: »

We are paying top dollar for frankly a low quality service.
Either DB needs to improve substantially for the money we pay or alternatively we should be paying far less to reflect the poor quality of service delivered.
There really is no excuse for the high ticket prices we are paying (yes even Leap).

The government using the NTA set the fares, the government don't want to pay any more money so the public are going to have to get accustomed to paying higher and higher fares.
The fares will only ever go up, no matter the level of service.

bk · 18-12-2014 1:31pm

mmmcake wrote: »

The government using the NTA set the fares, the government don't want to pay any more money so the public are going to have to get accustomed to paying higher and higher fares.
The fares will only ever go up, no matter the level of service.

The NTA set the fares based on the input from DB on their costs.

Prices don't have to always go up, that is typical faulty CIE thinking. There have been many examples across Europe of bus companies reducing fares or introducing flat fares and surprise, surprise it actually lead to increase in the number of passengers and profits for the company!

This is basic economics.

mmmcake · 18-12-2014 1:42pm

bk wrote: »

T
Prices don't have to always go up, that is typical faulty CIE thinking.

Never mind CIE, once anything goes up in price in Ireland it wont be coming back down.
Look at the price of petrol, oil a third the price it was a year ago, no change of price at the petrol station.
Beer price, up, up and away.
Magazines and newspapers, only ever up in price.
Chocolate bars have stayed the same price, but they are now smaller, maybe thats what dublin bus will do, keep the fare price the same, just curtail the route.
Name some items that have dropped in price?

Its simple capitalism, charge the maximum the market can bare.
The irish public have shown a willingness to suffer economic hardship so we are going to get screwed on the price of everything.

circadian · 18-12-2014 2:32pm

bk wrote: »

The NTA set the fares based on the input from DB on their costs.

Prices don't have to always go up, that is typical faulty CIE thinking. There have been many examples across Europe of bus companies reducing fares or introducing flat fares and surprise, surprise it actually lead to increase in the number of passengers and profits for the company!

This is basic economics.

I agree. A good value, efficient and well run transport system will see people go from cars to public transport. Reducing fares is a great incentive but the quality has to be improved, a lot.

LXFlyer · 18-12-2014 2:51pm

But for a sizeable number of people the Dublin Bus fares actually did drop.

For anyone travelling 7-13 stages the LEAP fare fell by 10 cent (over 4%) from €2.15 to €2.05, and if they were still paying cash, by 50 cent (over 22%) from €2.65 to €2.05 if they made the switch to LEAP.

Anyone using the 33 between the city and north county Dublin, and the 65 from the City to North West Wicklow saw their fares drop from €4.20 to €3.30 cash and €2.60 using LEAP, while 2 zone Xpresso fares (the majority of trips) fell from €4.20 to €3.60 cash and from €3.50 to €2.85 using LEAP.

Those changes are not exactly insignificant.

Carawaystick · 18-12-2014 3:17pm

mmmcake wrote: »

Never mind CIE, once anything goes up in price in Ireland it wont be coming back down.
Look at the price of petrol, oil a third the price it was a year ago, no change of price at the petrol station.

I paid 1.60/l earlier this year, and its 1.29 now for a litre of diesel in the same station.

mmmcake wrote: »

Beer price, up, up and away.

Weatherspoons have pints for much less, so we'll see if other publicans drop prices.

bk · 18-12-2014 4:37pm

Really?!!

- Tesco Mobile €15 per month gets you unlimited calls, texts and 1GB of data, I was paying Vodafone €60 for 300 minutes, texts and 1GB of data just two years ago. Mobile phone bills are down quite a bit.

- O'Reillys, Diceys, etc. lots of pubs now doing €2.50 pints

- Lidl, Adli, cheaper groceries and also now forcing prices down at Tesco, etc.

- Vodafone, up to 100mb/s broadband for just €35 per month, well down from the €50+ you use to have to pay Eircom for far slower broadband.

- You use to pay €1,500 to fly to London with Aer Lingus! Just €40 with Ryanair to London and most of the rest of Europe!

- I used to pay Irish Rail €70 to €80 return to Cork once a month. I now pay Aircoach €20 for the same trip and same journey time!

Lots of examples of price coming down as companies expand their customer base. Of course the difference with all of these examples is that they are private companies and are competing aggressively for customers with other companies.

It is just what I like to call the "old Ireland" areas of economy where you have protected monopolies and little or no competition where prices continue to rise, Dublin Bus, doctors, solicitors, taxes, water charges, etc.

end of the road · 18-12-2014 5:09pm

bk wrote: »

the difference with all of these examples is that they are private companies and are competing aggressively for customers with other companies.

because money is to be made. don't think though that where a private monopoly exists that prices don't go up, look at the UK railways for an example. of course the odd exception where prices are forced down by a regulator can happen, the water companies i believe have been forced to bring down prices, would they have done it if they weren't? i myself would think not.

bk wrote: »

It is just what I like to call the "old Ireland" areas of economy where you have protected monopolies and little or no competition where prices continue to rise, Dublin Bus, doctors, solicitors, taxes, water charges, etc.

in these cases, monopolies may be the better option. competition isn't always financially viable.

cdebru · 18-12-2014 6:10pm

bk wrote: »

Really?!!

- Tesco Mobile €15 per month gets you unlimited calls, texts and 1GB of data, I was paying Vodafone €60 for 300 minutes, texts and 1GB of data just two years ago. Mobile phone bills are down quite a bit.

- O'Reillys, Diceys, etc. lots of pubs now doing €2.50 pints

- Lidl, Adli, cheaper groceries and also now forcing prices down at Tesco, etc.

- Vodafone, up to 100mb/s broadband for just €35 per month, well down from the €50+ you use to have to pay Eircom for far slower broadband.

- You use to pay €1,500 to fly to London with Aer Lingus! Just €40 with Ryanair to London and most of the rest of Europe!

- I used to pay Irish Rail €70 to €80 return to Cork once a month. I now pay Aircoach €20 for the same trip and same journey time!

Lots of examples of price coming down as companies expand their customer base. Of course the difference with all of these examples is that they are private companies and are competing aggressively for customers with other companies.

It is just what I like to call the "old Ireland" areas of economy where you have protected monopolies and little or no competition where prices continue to rise, Dublin Bus, doctors, solicitors, taxes, water charges, etc.

It has just been pointed out to you that some fares actually fell with the recent price changes. But you ignore that inconvenient truth ?

cdebru · 18-12-2014 6:25pm

bk wrote: »

In my opinion, the problem is we are paying very high prices, some of the highest prices in Europe for Public transport *, but in return we are getting a very poor service, in particular with Dublin Bus.

Anyone who has travelled widely in Europe and uses public transport, knows that bus services are generally far superior to DB (proper night time 24 hour service, proper weekend/sunday service, speedy service with low dwell times, proper multidoor operation, flat fare, etc.) and in most of Europe, what we pay for a single fare, will normally get you a T90 style ticket that works across bus, tram and Metro.

We are paying top dollar for frankly a low quality service.

Either DB needs to improve substantially for the money we pay or alternatively we should be paying far less to reflect the poor quality of service delivered.

* And please don't blame it on lack of subsidy. While the direct subsidy from government is low, it doesn't include the very substantial indirect subsidies of the free travel scheme, the taxsaver scheme (a massive subsidy), buses bought for DB by the NTA, garages, bus stations and depots paid for by the tax payer, etc. When all these are included, DB's subsidy is equivalent to the EU average subsidy.

There really is no excuse for the high ticket prices we are paying (yes even Leap).

Is free travel a subsidy ? Really ? It pays more than it costs to provide ?
Is taxsaver a subsidy ? If it is a subsidy it is too the passenger not the company they get the same money the passenger and their employer save money.

You are scraping the barrel here trying to justify your argument, the subsidy is low, hence the over reliance on the cash box, that is the truth. On top of that we have over a third of the adult population entitled to free travel, with DB getting what amounts to a pitance for providing that, and the numbers entitled to free travel continue to grow but the payment for it has frozen, so the government are removing fare paying passengers and replacing them with free travel passengers but not paying anything for this, at the same time as reducing the subvention, of course fares are going to rise.
BTW operating costs in DB have fallen from 2008 at 308million to 2013 259million, so not everything at CIE keeps going up and up.

circadian · 18-12-2014 6:31pm

circadian wrote: »

Can't say I'm happy with the service.

There is one direct bus from work in the evening and gets you to town anywhere between 35-50 mins depending on traffic which is great.

The problem is, it doesn't show up and it occurs once every week or two. This means there's a bus load of people waiting up to an hour for the next bus which takes about 1.5 hours to get to town since it isn't direct.

So right now, I should be getting home around 6. However, since the bus hasn't shown up again, it's more like 8 that I'll be getting home.

Don't get me started on the timetable format.

Quoting myself because this is the second night in a row.

Awful service.

paulosam · 18-12-2014 7:03pm

cdebru wrote: »

It has just been pointed out to you that some fares actually fell with the recent price changes. But you ignore that inconvenient truth ?

Stage 1-3 fares went up (even on the Leap) and so did most city centre to outer suburb fares (over 13 stages)

I'd imagine Dublin Bus hit those, and not the 4-7 + 8-13 stages because they know most people availing of those have no other alternative to their crap service.

Roll on privatisation, can't really be worse than what's on offer at the moment.

Dublin Bus - can anyone be happy with the price and service?

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