[2011-2012] What really happened to Madeleine McCann?

cru · 29-06-2011 10:38am

To me no baby monitor means they did not expect any of their 3 children to awaken while they were away,

I have one child when he wakes during the night he cries, if other kids are there he'll wake them too, the chances of one of the three kids waking up is quite large especially as the twins were babies. Parents are always listening for their children waking up, its something that regulary occurs.

If we leave our child asleep out of hearing we use a baby moniter or we make arrangements for somebody to be withinn hearing distance.

How could the McCanns be so certain that none of them would wake up, not just one night but from what I understand this happened everynight.

I think they sedated the kids every night they went out, probably being doing it for years.

iamwhoiam · 29-06-2011 10:47am

cru wrote: »

To me no baby monitor means they did not expect any of their 3 children to awaken while they were away,

I have one child when he wakes during the night he cries, if other kids are there he'll wake them too, the chances of one of the three kids waking up is quite large especially as the twins were babies. Parents are always listening for their children waking up, its something that regulary occurs.

If we leave our child asleep out of hearing we use a baby moniter or we make arrangements for somebody to be withinn hearing distance.

How could the McCanns be so certain that none of them would wake up, not just one night but from what I understand this happened everynight.

I think they sedated the kids every night they went out, probably being doing it for years.

Apperently Madeleine had a star chart on the fridge and got stars for staying in her own bed .That to me is clear indication that they knew Madeleine could wake .Coupled with the fact that Madeleine told them that she ans Sean cried the night before its clear they knew the children could wake up . Which then makes you wonder how three small children were all asleep at 7;30 . One child will flake out , two is a lucky break but all three in bed asleep by 7 ;30 is a real rarity IMO .

dark crystal · 29-06-2011 11:26pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Which then makes you wonder how three small children were all asleep at 7;30 . One child will flake out , two is a lucky break but all three in bed asleep by 7 ;30 is a real rarity IMO .

The twins were tested for sedatives and none were found in their systems.

badabing106 · 30-06-2011 1:58am

dark crystal wrote: »

The twins were tested for sedatives and none were found in their systems.

-

Ah , your forgetting a small bit to the full story!

The twins were tested in September 2007, 4 months after Madeleine McCanns "abduction"!

Kate McCann later claimed that she believed that the "abductor" drugged the twins, why would she not get them tested straight away if she thought they were in any harm!?

iamwhoiam · 30-06-2011 7:26am

dark crystal wrote: »

The twins were tested for sedatives and none were found in their systems.

Four months later after a hair cut . !:rolleyes:

cru · 30-06-2011 7:56am

Kate McCann later claimed that she believed that the "abductor" drugged the twins, why would she not get them tested straight away if she thought they were in any harm!?

Aha the plot thickens,

Imagine if the "abductor" used a seditive that Dr McCann had recently prescribed for persons as yet unknown.

dark crystal · 30-06-2011 1:29pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Four months later after a hair cut . !:rolleyes:

No need for the rolly eyes.

Each inch of hair contains a months worth of evidence. As long as the twins had four inches of hair, the tests are perfectly valid - or are you disputing that?

iamwhoiam · 30-06-2011 2:03pm

dark crystal wrote: »

No need for the rolly eyes.

Each inch of hair contains a months worth of evidence. As long as the twins had four inches of hair, the tests are perfectly valid - or are you disputing that?

Yes ,sorry for rolly eyes , tiredness makes me tetchy! I wonder why Mrs Cann waited all that time to have them tested , when in her book she suspected they may have been drugged on the night Madeleine went missing. Very remiss of a parent not to have that checked straight away and make sure her babies wernt in any danger of an insidious drug .
Of all people Dr Mc Cann knew they hidden , slow insidious danger of a toxic substance in a young child .So , by her own admission she questioned whether they may have been drugged yet failed to ensure they hadnt been on May 4 ,or indeed for 4 months .

dark crystal · 30-06-2011 3:01pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Yes ,sorry for rolly eyes , tiredness makes me tetchy! I wonder why Mrs Cann waited all that time to have them tested , when in her book she suspected they may have been drugged on the night Madeleine went missing. Very remiss of a parent not to have that checked straight away and make sure her babies wernt in any danger of an insidious drug .
Of all people Dr Mc Cann knew they hidden , slow insidious danger of a toxic substance in a young child .So , by her own admission she questioned whether they may have been drugged yet failed to ensure they hadnt been on May 4 ,or indeed for 4 months .

Well, as doctors, I would suspect they knew the signs of the after effects of drugs in a child's system. Therefore, when the twins awoke without any of those signs, they were suitably reassured.

In the midst of all the panic that night, it was probably something that may have just crossed their minds. If the twins awoke without any ill-effects, there doesn't seem to be any reason why they should have felt the need to have them tested afterwards.

The reason they got them tested four months later was probably to disprove the PJ's theories about them drugging their children on the night in question.

badabing106 · 30-06-2011 4:33pm

dark crystal wrote: »

Well, as doctors, I would suspect they knew the signs of the after effects of drugs in a child's system. Therefore, when the twins awoke without any of those signs, they were suitably reassured.

In the midst of all the panic that night, it was probably something that may have just crossed their minds. If the twins awoke without any ill-effects, there doesn't seem to be any reason why they should have felt the need to have them tested afterwards.

The reason they got them tested four months later was probably to disprove the PJ's theories about them drugging their children on the night in question.

Are you forgetting that they got their hair cut?, it was not the same hair as 4 months ago so the tests would not disprove the Polices theories

Its not really an afterthought, when one of your daughters has just been "abducted" and you suspect that your kids were drugged also .It is a potentially crucial nugget of information!

That would be vital information to know for an investigation! it would be very important information to know if the kids were drugged or not. It would be important to know the exact drug given to them, what amount and when it was given to them! etc etc .Im sure that Kate mcCann would know this, especially as she is a doctor!. That she would keep this to herself is a bit bizarre

I can't imagine any parents suspecting their kids to be drugged by a person that "abducted" one of their other children and withholding this information as an afterthought :eek:

iamwhoiam · 30-06-2011 5:08pm

dark crystal wrote: »

Well, as doctors, I would suspect they knew the signs of the after effects of drugs in a child's system. Therefore, when the twins awoke without any of those signs, they were suitably reassured.
In the midst of all the panic that night, it was probably something that may have just crossed their minds. If the twins awoke without any ill-effects, there doesn't seem to be any reason why they should have felt the need to have them tested afterwards.

The reason they got them tested four months later was probably to disprove the PJ's theories about them drugging their children on the night in question.

Well they shouldnt have been reassured at all becuase as doctors they would be very aware that certain drugs have a very slow rate of damage , they are insidious and creep into the blood and the damage is days later .Take Paracetomol , its up to four days later that the liver is damaged , the drug is causing a toxicity for days .
Most parents who suspected an abductor had taken their daughter and drugged their babies would make damn sure they were tested , kept safe , toxicilogy done and be absolutely sure and positive that no hint of drug was in the bloodstream
No checking pulse , respiratory rate or feeling a head will tell you if a child has been drugged . I know anaesthetists and GPS and nurses who have brought their kids in because under no circumstance would they leave a child who has taken something to chance .They know better .

Of all people a GP and anaesthetist and a cardiac surgeon should have known better and got the babies checked out .Why didnt they ? Very very strange in my opinion to have that suspicion and not act on it .
Kate Mc Cann was either very remiss in ignoring her instinct or she didnt have the suspicion in the first place or she wasnt worried because she knew exactaly why the twins were sleeping soundly through chaos all round them .

Mistyeyes321 · 30-06-2011 7:56pm

What stand's out to me is if someone took Maddie because they wanted a child so badly to love & nurture. Then why a nearly four year old child?!
It would make far more sense if the Mccann's we're being watched for this reason to take the twin's who would likely forget about their own parent's very quickly! & they would also be far easier to teach a new Language etc etc etc!
Other's think the Mccann's was being watched by a paedophile ring, Again why not take all three kids?! If they was prepared to take the risk then why not?. It's like being robbed & just taking the Copper's & leaving the silver & gold! It doesn't even bare thinking about really turn's my stomach the thought of people like these having this Child! I don't think we can ignore it though!
Another way this child could have disappeared was by the Parent's being involed...I just can't believe it tbh maybe that's because as a Mother I just couldn't carry on without one of my babies! I know I couldn't just dump their little body as if they we're a piece of rubbish!
The only other way would be if one of the Friend's we're involved & the Mccann's genuinly aren't involved & do believe Maddie was abducted!

deelite · 30-06-2011 8:11pm

I thought one of the strangest things in the case was "cuddles bear" - as a mum I could never understand (not going into why he was on the top of the wardrobe) was why Kate washed him. I still have my kids first outfit they wore when they were fjrst born (still unwashed and still smell of baby).

Mistyeyes321 · 30-06-2011 9:41pm

deelite wrote: »

I thought one of the strangest things in the case was "cuddles bear" - as a mum I could never understand (not going into why he was on the top of the wardrobe) was why Kate washed him. I still have my kids first outfit they wore when they were fjrst born (still unwashed and still smell of baby).

I also wonder why Cuddle Cat wasn't taken with Maddie if these people we're watching then they would have seen how attached Maddie was to this bear, So if Maddie was taken by someone who wanted a child to love this would have helped sool Maddie!
I don't get the washing of it either like you say the smell alone I would personally cherish forever.!
It was supposed to have been washed because it had suntan Lotion onit?!

dark crystal · 30-06-2011 9:54pm

badabing106 wrote: »

Are you forgetting that they got their hair cut?, it was not the same hair as 4 months ago so the tests would not disprove the Polices theories

Hair grows from the scalp, so even if you cut it at the end, the evidence would still be available. As long as there was at least four centimetres of hair, you can trace back any substances in the system back that far.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1570315/Madeleine-McCanns-mother-takes-drug-test.html

The drug tests, which were conducted in September, form part of a dossier of evidence compiled by the McCanns' legal team to demolish the police case against them.
Edward Smethurst, the lawyer coordinating the McCanns' defence, said: "Hair grows by about a centimetre a month so if you have eight centimetres of hair, you can test for drugs going back eight months.
"With the appropriate, fully-accredited experts, hair samples were taken from Sean, Amelie and Kate and the conclusion was no evidence of sedatives or drugs were found.

*I mentioned it was inches in my earlier post, when in fact it was merely centimeters.

dark crystal · 30-06-2011 10:15pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Well they shouldnt have been reassured at all becuase as doctors they would be very aware that certain drugs have a very slow rate of damage , they are insidious and creep into the blood and the damage is days later .Take Paracetomol , its up to four days later that the liver is damaged , the drug is causing a toxicity for days .
Most parents who suspected an abductor had taken their daughter and drugged their babies would make damn sure they were tested , kept safe , toxicilogy done and be absolutely sure and positive that no hint of drug was in the bloodstream
No checking pulse , respiratory rate or feeling a head will tell you if a child has been drugged . I know anaesthetists and GPS and nurses who have brought their kids in because under no circumstance would they leave a child who has taken something to chance .They know better .

Of all people a GP and anaesthetist and a cardiac surgeon should have known better and got the babies checked out .Why didnt they ? Very very strange in my opinion to have that suspicion and not act on it .
Kate Mc Cann was either very remiss in ignoring her instinct or she didnt have the suspicion in the first place or she wasnt worried because she knew exactaly why the twins were sleeping soundly through chaos all round them .

If a high level of Paracetomol had been administered to the infants (enough to knock them out), there would be abdominal pain and severe vomiting after they awoke (certainly during the proceeding 24 hours). Most parents would know something was badly amiss if their children were this sick, especially parents who were medically trained.

Besides, It is highly doubtful that an abductor would take the time to drug the twins, when they had such a small frame of time to take a child. Like I said, probably just a knee jerk panic reactionary theory from Kate at the time.

As has been stated, the twins were scientifically proven not to have drugs in their systems at the time of the incident, so insinuating the McCanns drugged or sedated them that night is wrong.

badabing106 · 01-07-2011 12:40am

dark crystal wrote: »

Hair grows from the scalp, so even if you cut it at the end, the evidence would still be available. As long as there was at least four centimetres of hair, you can trace back any substances in the system back that far.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1570315/Madeleine-McCanns-mother-takes-drug-test.html

*I mentioned it was inches in my earlier post, when in fact it was merely centimeters.

Remember that Your scientific evidence reporting that the twins were not sedated are the claims made by The defense lawyers being paid huge sums of money by Team McCann .

09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2315

When Kazlux and others met with Mr. Amaral (Portugese investigator)

At the beginning you said drugging the children is the most likely the cause of death but Gerry and Kate swear they didn’t."

We wanted the twins tested for antihistaminica. The older types work sedating. You can find the traces up to 2 months after use. We were never allowed to test the twins until 3 months later when Kate called a collegue of mine. She wants an end to all the gossip and offers to have the twins tested for traces of sleeping pills. Kate knows as a doctor this is useless.
But a little while later the same collegue receives a phonecall from Gerry who cancelles Kates’s offer and apologizes for her neurotic behaviour. We already knew Gerry traces all calls Kate makes

The McCannss took Calpol, Nurofen, antacids and antihistamine remedies on holiday.

Mistyeyes321 · 01-07-2011 1:02am

badabing106 wrote: »

Remember that Your scientific evidence reporting that the twins were not sedated are the claims made by The defense lawyers being paid huge sums of money by Team McCann .

09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2315

When Kazlux and others met with Mr. Amaral (Portugese investigator)

At the beginning you said drugging the children is the most likely the cause of death but Gerry and Kate swear they didn’t."

We wanted the twins tested for antihistaminica. The older types work sedating. You can find the traces up to 2 months after use. We were never allowed to test the twins until 3 months later when Kate called a collegue of mine. She wants an end to all the gossip and offers to have the twins tested for traces of sleeping pills. Kate knows as a doctor this is useless.
But a little while later the same collegue receives a phonecall from Gerry who cancelles Kates’s offer and apologizes for her neurotic behaviour. We already knew Gerry traces all calls Kate makes

The McCannss took Calpol, Nurofen, antacids and antihistamine remedies on holiday.

:eek: Does gerry do that trace her call's? That's just strange imo why would he do that?:eek: Never heard this before..

dark crystal · 01-07-2011 1:08am

badabing106 wrote: »

Remember that Your scientific evidence reporting that the twins were not sedated are the claims made by The defense lawyers being paid huge sums of money by Team McCann .

09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2315

When Kazlux and others met with Mr. Amaral (Portugese investigator)

At the beginning you said drugging the children is the most likely the cause of death but Gerry and Kate swear they didn’t."

We wanted the twins tested for antihistaminica. The older types work sedating. You can find the traces up to 2 months after use. We were never allowed to test the twins until 3 months later when Kate called a collegue of mine. She wants an end to all the gossip and offers to have the twins tested for traces of sleeping pills. Kate knows as a doctor this is useless.
But a little while later the same collegue receives a phonecall from Gerry who cancelles Kates’s offer and apologizes for her neurotic behaviour. We already knew Gerry traces all calls Kate makes

The McCannss took Calpol, Nurofen, antacids and antihistamine remedies on holiday.

Many parents take such medications on holiday with them. Calpol, antacids and Neurofen do not sedate. Antihistamines are very common remedies for insect bites and hayfever. Many parents would bring such products with them for such purposes. Not in order to sedate their children.

No matter who the tests were carried out on behalf of, there is no denying the home-office approved scientists who did the tests were professional and their conclusions were that no harmful drugs were administered to the twins that night.

http://truthformadeleine.com/2007/11/kate-takes-drug-tests-to-prove-she-wasnt-on-anti-depressants-when-madeleine-vanished/

The drug tests were carried out by Home Office approved experts in September after the finger of suspicion was first pointed at the couple.
Edward Smethurst, the lawyer co- ordinating their defence team, told the Evening Standard: “Hair grows by about a centimetre a month so if you have eight centimetres of hair, you can test for drugs going back eight months.
“With the appropriate, fully accredited experts, hair samples were taken from Sean, Amelie and Kate and the conclusion was no evidence of sedatives or drugs were found.
“There were various stories circulating that Kate might somehow be unstable and might be depressed, but the tests demonstrate that the kind of drugs she might be on did not show up.”
Independent tests were also carried out on the couple’s Renault Scenic hire car and found no traces of Madeleine.

cru · 01-07-2011 7:54am

The twins were tested for sedatives and none were found in their systems.

Actually no evidence for the type(s) of seditives they were tested for was found in their systems

iamwhoiam · 01-07-2011 9:20am

dark crystal wrote: »

If a high level of Paracetomol had been administered to the infants (enough to knock them out), there would be abdominal pain and severe vomiting after they awoke (certainly during the proceeding 24 hours). Most parents would know something was badly amiss if their children were this sick, especially parents who were medically trained.

.

That is actually not the point at all .The point I am making is Kate herself says she suspected the twins may have been drugged and yet didnt act on it at the time ,Very odd that a GP would be willing to wait till the next morning to see if they woke ok while suspecting her babies had been drugged .Dr Mc Cann would have no clue what , how much was given and yet did not act on her hunch .
I have worked in Paeds A+E and parents will come to A+E even if they are not sure a child has indeed taken anything at all .If they even suspect the child has they arrive to be sure ,its being careful and alert and good parenting ,

badabing106 · 01-07-2011 9:51am

dark crystal wrote: »

No matter who the tests were carried out on behalf of, there is no denying the home-office approved scientists who did the tests were professional and their conclusions were that no harmful drugs were administered to the twins that night.

http://truthformadeleine.com/2007/11/kate-takes-drug-tests-to-prove-she-wasnt-on-anti-depressants-when-madeleine-vanished/

They, say that no harmful drugs were administered , not that, no drugs were given to those children!

When Kazlux and others met with Mr. Amaral (Portugese investigator)

We wanted the twins tested for antihistaminica. The older types work sedating. You can find the traces up to 2 months after use. We were never allowed to test the twins until 3 months later when Kate called a collegue of mine. She wants an end to all the gossip and offers to have the twins tested for traces of sleeping pills. Kate knows as a doctor this is useless. But a little while later the same collegue receives a phonecall from Gerry who cancelles Kates’s offer and apologizes for her neurotic behaviour. We already knew Gerry traces all calls Kate makes

dark crystal · 01-07-2011 10:03am

If they did find antihistamines in the twins samples, what would that prove exactly? Giving a child antihistamines during a holiday certainly does not equate to purposely sedating them, nor does it prove you are guilty of any crime.

Badabing - could you provide a link for the quotes you are posting please? I haven't a clue who this Kazlux person is.

Green Back · 01-07-2011 10:32am

This completely stinks of a mossad 'event'.
Gerry 'treated' well known mossad agent 'James Kearney' aka the Vulcan.

The Vulcan was based at the Israeli consulate in NY from June 2000 to November 2001.
Rumours at Glenfield Hospital in November 2001 were that the surgery was a disaster because of a hand slippage while the vulcan was under the knief, resulting in major facial disfigurement.
Aparently this wasn't the first case of negative surgical reactions from one group of special clients.

Mistyeyes321 · 01-07-2011 4:51pm

Green Back wrote: »

This completely stinks of a mossad 'event'.
Gerry 'treated' well known mossad agent 'James Kearney' aka the Vulcan.

The Vulcan was based at the Israeli consulate in NY from June 2000 to November 2001.
Rumours at Glenfield Hospital in November 2001 were that the surgery was a disaster because of a hand slippage while the vulcan was under the knief, resulting in major facial disfigurement.
Aparently this wasn't the first case of negative surgical reactions from one group of special clients.

Please excuse my ignorance here.:) What is all this about? I really don't get this can you explain it a little further just for little old mee?!

:)

Green Back · 02-07-2011 7:48am

Mistyeyes321 wrote: »

Please excuse my ignorance here.:) What is all this about? I really don't get this can you explain it a little further just for little old mee?!:)

Think 911

thebullkf · 02-07-2011 10:21pm

police call..?

Mistyeyes321 · 02-07-2011 10:41pm

Eh? 911... Police call...Sorry I haven't got the slightest clue what either of you are refering to...How is these two related to Maddie Mccann?

Kildare Resident · 02-07-2011 10:50pm

Haven't read all the posts but am I the only one thinking that if it wasn't such a "well to do" family that they'd be left with the other kids and there would be bloody uproar if it was an unmarried couple on the S.W.?

I also think they should be looking at mammy........

thebullkf · 02-07-2011 11:31pm

Mistyeyes321 wrote: »

Eh? 911... Police call...Sorry I haven't got the slightest clue what either of you are refering to...How is these two related to Maddie Mccann?

i was pointing out how unrelated nine eleven in the states has to do with madelines disappearance

furiousox · 02-07-2011 11:38pm

"The internet at its best" :rolleyes:
I don't know what happened and neither do you.
Now go to bed, it's late.

thebullkf · 03-07-2011 12:27am

furiousox wrote: »

"The internet at its best" :rolleyes:
I don't know what happened and neither do you.
Now go to bed, it's late.

whos that directed at

furiousox · 03-07-2011 12:33am

Everyone on this thread, speculate all you like but remember that's all it is....gossip, theory, speculation... a waste of time and energy...
No-one here knows for certain what happened to that child.

badabing106 · 03-07-2011 1:01am

furiousox wrote: »

Everyone on this thread, speculate all you like but remember that's all it is....gossip, theory, speculation... a waste of time and energy...
No-one here knows for certain what happened to that child.

THe British and Portugese police believe that Madeleine McCann died by cause of accident,not by homicide, and that the McCanns similated an abduction. British sniffer dogs got the scent of a dead body in the McCanns appartment and in their rental car, a car they rented three weeks after the "abduxction" of Madeleine Mccann. There was a dead body detected in the McCanns apartment and in their rental car? Who was the dead body if it was not Madeleine McCann?

iamwhoiam · 03-07-2011 11:10am

furiousox wrote: »

Everyone on this thread, speculate all you like but remember that's all it is....gossip, theory, speculation... a waste of time and energy...
No-one here knows for certain what happened to that child.

Wow , how insightful
. !

furiousox · 03-07-2011 11:32am

I take it you mean insightful?
I know, thanks!

Mistyeyes321 · 29-07-2011 12:22am

British Papers reporting Maddie could well have been found in India! Dna test's have been taken so it would seem?!
Then I just noticed this link...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019698/Madeleine-McCann-Hopes-dashed-sighting-India.html?ito=feeds-newsxml!
Any thought's on this? Isit so rare in some foreign countries for a child to have blond hair? I don't think it is. So why is there always this big story when a child like this is seen?. Can't imagine what the Parent's of this child felt like having to Prove the child was their own Daughter!

Jesus Wept · 29-07-2011 1:26am

Mistyeyes321 wrote: »

Other's think the Mccann's was being watched by a paedophile ring, Again why not take all three kids?! If they was prepared to take the risk then why not?. It's like being robbed & just taking the Copper's & leaving the silver & gold!

Carrying one child is tough enough, carrying a child and two babies would be impossible, especially out a window.

I'm not sure why you assume the 4 year old to be copper compared to a baby who is silver/gold. Paedos are into what they are into, looks wise/age group wise, etc - they have preferences. The gold is more likely to be the 4 year old than a baby and the child is probably going to be killed within hours rather than days or weeks.

Anyhow, I'd put the chance that this is what happened at under 5% personally.

Mistyeyes321 wrote: »

British Papers reporting Maddie could well have been found in India! Dna test's have been taken so it would seem?!
Then I just noticed this link...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019698/Madeleine-McCann-Hopes-dashed-sighting-India.html?ito=feeds-newsxml!
Any thought's on this? Isit so rare in some foreign countries for a child to have blond hair? I don't think it is. So why is there always this big story when a child like this is seen?. Can't imagine what the Parent's of this child felt like having to Prove the child was their own Daughter!

It's nonsense like the other dozen or so similar stories in the last couple of years.

Dude111 · 29-07-2011 8:51am

Gerry and Kate McCann do not believe a young girl spotted in India is their missing daughter, their spokesman said.

Yea sadly they probably know EXACTLY what happend to thier daughter!!

jackiebaron · 29-07-2011 11:32am

Everyone should try (however sick this may sound) to put themselves in the place of, say, a paedophile. If you wanted to abduct a child for your sick purposes what would be the best and easiest way to go about doing this?
I'm going to rule out that the parents had a hand in this. Why? I just can't fathom it. They are loving parents to two of their children and a sadistic and callous to another? Doesn't make sense.
So if we assume that Madeleine was well and truly abducted then it can only have been by a certain kind of person, i.e. a deranged murderer, a paedophile/sex trafficker, a childless person who wanted a baby OR someone who could make money selling the child to one of the aforementioned.
So then begs the question if you were one of the above, what would be the best way to achieve your goal? Where could you best find and abduct a child without detection? Was the McCann's apartment the best place in Portugal outside of schools, beaches, playgrounds, etc.?
Murderers usually grab a child who is on the way home from school or the shops. They don't usually actually break into someone's home, take a child and then kill that child. I mean a child murderer generally has to find a victim with the least possible suspicion hence meeting in bus stations or parks......i.e. no crime is committed in actually initiating contact with the victim so that if someone intervenes the murderer/paedo hasn't actually implicated himself in anything prosecutable other than suspicious behaviour.
Breaking into a house is already a crime and as such would lead me to believe that the abductor wanted Madeleine specifically and not just any random child.
I dunno...it's pretty baffling and a little depressing. I'm no sleuth but of all the cases of abductions that I've heard or read about I can't remember one being actually a break-in. Usually the victim is abducted from a scene that is part of their routine so in all likelihood they have been monitored over a period.

alanc2003 · 29-07-2011 3:01pm

there was no sign of a break in so how is that explained away? i think the chances of a paedo/murderer breaking into the apartment is a fairly unlikely scenario.

anyway book sales must be dipping, they need to have the case in the news again, they do have a legal team to pay for after all!!

dark crystal · 29-07-2011 4:20pm

jackiebaron wrote: »

I dunno...it's pretty baffling and a little depressing. I'm no sleuth but of all the cases of abductions that I've heard or read about I can't remember one being actually a break-in. Usually the victim is abducted from a scene that is part of their routine so in all likelihood they have been monitored over a period.

Polly Klaas was abducted from her bedroom:

http://www.pollyklaas.org/about/pollys-story.html

Jonbenet Ramsey was also murdered in her own home, while her parents slept.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JonBen%C3%A9t_Ramsey

They are rare enough occurences, but they do happen. The patio doors to the McCann's apartment were unlocked, so that would be easy enough access for any potential abductor. No forced entry needed there.

In my opinion, someone was watching the family for a while before she was snatched. They knew the parents regularly ate out in the evenings, making sytematic checks every 15-20 minutes or so. That is more than enough time to slip through the patio door and snatch the little girl.

A tragic case indeed and one that, in my opinion, has little chance of a happy ending

alanc2003 · 29-07-2011 5:43pm

But were the doors unlocked? The mccanns only came up with that story after the police found no evidence of a kidnapper climbing in or out of the bedroom window

Mistyeyes321 · 29-07-2011 6:14pm

The-Rigger wrote: »

Carrying one child is tough enough, carrying a child and two babies would be impossible, especially out a window.

I'm not sure why you assume the 4 year old to be copper compared to a baby who is silver/gold. Paedos are into what they are into, looks wise/age group wise, etc - they have preferences. The gold is more likely to be the 4 year old than a baby and the child is probably going to be killed within hours rather than days or weeks.

Anyhow, I'd put the chance that this is what happened at under 5% personally.

It's nonsense like the other dozen or so similar stories in the last couple of years.

The point I was trying to make here was, If someone is going to take the time to stake my house out for their financial Gain...Why would they do all that only taking the Penny Jar & leaving the Notes.! I was also replying to someone who said they thought this child was taken for them to bring up as their own child. My point there was Maddie would likely take far longer to forget her parent's than a Baby would!
I agree with your last Comment!

Daisy M · 05-08-2011 4:03pm

Ok, so someone sees a child they think is Madeleine and take action. How do Kate and Gerry react? They study the photo and conclude they do not think its Madeleine. Thats it nothing else. They do not use this opportunity to revive awareness of the case, they express no thanks to the people who keep Madeleines image in their mind and contuine to look for her when they are away. I cant understand why they didnt jump on this publicity and put Madeliene back in the limelight once more. Very strange.

gbee · 05-08-2011 6:36pm

If the dog says there was a cadaver and in such a small space. Well I believe that dog.

Jesus Wept · 15-08-2011 10:17am

Mistyeyes321 wrote: »

The point I was trying to make here was, If someone is going to take the time to stake my house out for their financial Gain...Why would they do all that only taking the Penny Jar & leaving the Notes.! I was also replying to someone who said they thought this child was taken for them to bring up as their own child. My point there was Maddie would likely take far longer to forget her parent's than a Baby would!
I agree with your last Comment!

You are also making the assumption that if someone took her it was for financial gain, I'd estimate that scenario as far less likely than others.

MapForJ · 16-08-2011 11:28am

Sardonicat wrote: »

Calpol is paracetemol. It does not make you sleepy.

there is a calpol with an antihistamine which can help sleep. i doubt if a doctor would make a mistake in dose in that or any sleep inducer. If given too much she would be more likely to die from the paracetamol

MapForJ · 16-08-2011 1:09pm

lugha wrote: »

just as easily happen if you are too far away from your children to hear them crying. Whether than is 12, 120 or 1,200 metres makes no material difference.

that is rubbish. anyone intent on wrongdoing is much more likely to enter when the owner is 1200 meters away than when they are in the back garden.

This would apply especially to opportunists but to planned crime as well. No criminal wants to be seen the thing is to get in and out quick. Do you know how criminals go through drawers for this purpose of in and out fast?

lugha · 16-08-2011 1:53pm

MapForJ wrote: »

that is rubbish. anyone intent on wrongdoing is much more likely to enter when the owner is 1200 meters away than when they are in the back garden.

This would apply especially to opportunists but to planned crime as well. No criminal wants to be seen the thing is to get in and out quick. Do you know how criminals go through drawers for this purpose of in and out fast?

But many (most?) people posting here do not believe that Madeleine was abducted, rather than she died in some manner of unfortunate accident that may have been prevented had the McCanns provided a better (indeed many would say, basic) level of supervision for their children.

It is with respect to this scenario that I argue that there is no real difference between having a house or garden party where you cannot hear your children and one where you may be a considerable distance from your home.

[2011-2012] What really happened to Madeleine McCann?

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