Building Control (Amendment) Regulations 2013

Bullseye1 · 08-04-2013 5:04pm #1

Not sure if these have been posted previously.

Just got the email from the IEI.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Regulations will come into effect on March 1st 2014 and the Code of Practice to accompany them will, we understand be published by the Department in the coming months.

[/FONT]

http://www.environ.ie/en/Legislation/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,32732,en.pdf

sinnerboy · 08-04-2013 5:20pm

From the 1st of March 2014 ( next year ) if you are

a) Building a new house
b) Building an extension which is greater than 40m2

These changes will affect you as follows , from that date

When works start you must send to your local authority in standard formats set down by regulations

1 . A Commencement Notice signed by you ( not your agent as may be the case now ) stating when works will start and including all drawings , specifications and calculations to show how you will comply with building regulations.

2 A Certificate of Compliance ( Design ) signed by your Architect , Engineer or Surveyor* to confirm that the building is designed in accordance with building regulations

3. A Notice of Assignment of Person to Inspect and Certify works signed by your Architect , Engineer or Surveyor* ( who may differ from the person at 2 )

4. Undertaking by Assigned Certifier – the person at 3 confirms your appointment of them

5. Notice of Assignment of Builder . You confirm you have appointed a competent builder ! Self build / direct labour posters note this one !

6. Undertaking by Builder . The builder confirms your appointment of him . He confirms he is competent and that he knows and will build to regs. Self build / direct labour posters note this one too !

At completion of the works and – note carefully – before the house is occupied or used the following must be submitted to the local authority

8. Certificate of Compliance on Completion as completed by the person at 3 above

10. As built drawings specifications and calculations

11. The Inspection Plan as implemented by the person at 3 above.

The days of building off planning permission drawings and "do I really need an Architect/Engineer/Surveyor?" are now numbered.

Bullseye1 · 08-04-2013 5:29pm

Hi Sinnerboy just to confirm the (b) in your post above are you sure its for extensions over 40 sq. m? I've bolded the text below which seems to contradict?? Maybe I am misreading.

(2) The requirement for a Certificate of Compliance on Completion shall
apply to the following works and buildings—
(a) the design and construction of a new dwelling,
(b) an extension to a dwelling involving a total floor area no greater
than 40 square metres

sinnerboy · 08-04-2013 5:32pm

Typo in the SI.
Our Masters and Overlords are not perfect

Bullseye1 · 08-04-2013 5:33pm

Cheers. LOL.

atech · 08-04-2013 5:53pm

sinnerboy wrote: »

8. Certificate of Compliance on Completion as completed by the person at 3 above

Regarding this cert it appears that the builder (a Principal or Director of a Building Company only) also has to sign Part A of this.

So although you could technically have gotten individual trades to sign the undertaking of their various trades (i.e. going the direct labour route) this appears to require a single contractor to take responsibility for all the trades.

sinnerboy · 08-04-2013 5:58pm

My own reading of this (and I could be wrong) is that there is nothing to stop a self builder appointing himself Main Contractor and by so doing accepting an onerous responsibility.

A fella called fish · 08-04-2013 6:45pm

I wonder why they request that design calcs are submitted upon completion of the works, as opposed to the UK who comment on calcs prior to construction thus reducing the risk of design error?

Seems a bit pointless to submit calcs once the structure has been built.

sinnerboy · 08-04-2013 6:57pm

No - you always submit drawings and calculations at commencement and - if changes are made during construction then supplemental / additional calculations also at completion.

sinnerboy · 08-04-2013 7:04pm

And local authorities will be performing a validating and public filing service only. They will not be "approving" anything.

con1982 · 08-04-2013 7:33pm

sinnerboy wrote: »

And local authorities will be performing a validating and public filing service only. They will not be "approving" anything.

Even this Building Control (lite version) is better than the current system. Hopefully it will evolve into a more comprehensive system like in the UK.

sydthebeat · 08-04-2013 7:50pm

con1982 wrote: »

Even this Building Control (lite version) is better than the current system. Hopefully it will evolve into a more comprehensive system like in the UK.

Interesting to see what the increase in costs will be.

con1982 · 08-04-2013 8:03pm

I suppose project costs will increase due to:

(1) Increase in insurance premiums to cover risk
(2) Additional supervision & inspection on site required to satisfy certification process
(3) Paperwork of (2)

sinnerboy · 09-04-2013 9:11am

con1982 wrote: »

Even this Building Control (lite version) is better than the current system. Hopefully it will evolve into a more comprehensive system like in the UK.

I can see why one may think this but it is simply not the case. The Building Control Act 1990 bestows tremendous powers on Local Authorities to enter properties ( sites and completed buildings ) to inspect , open up works and demand alterations etc. and for 23 years Local Authorities have avoided exercising these powers. With great power comes NO responsibilty in this case.

The latest regulations in my view further reduce Local Authority responsibilities , de facto. They will charge fees , demand documents ( drawings / calcs ) and simply store them. Be under no illusion that the validation process that these regs require is a superficial exercise to check that a package of documents is on the face of it a complete set of documents but they will play no part to determine or approve any actual substantive content of the documents.

Make no mistake , inspections and enforcement of building regulations will in everyday practice , be something that Local Authorities will continue to have no hand or act or part in.

Brave Harvey · 09-04-2013 10:35pm

I took this out of the Certificate of compliance that from March of next year which will come into force when submitting drawings to the planning authority at commencement notice stage.

"3. I confirm that I have been commissioned by the building owner to design, in conjunction with others, the works described above and to certify such design. I further confirm that I am a person named on a register maintained pursuant to Part 3 or Part 5 of the Building Control Act 2007 or Section 7 of the Institution of Civil Engineers of Ireland (Charter Amendment) Act 1969 and that I am competent to carry out my design and to coordinate the design of others for the works concerned."

I had a look at the Building control act 2007, I may give it another look but I think I may have to undertake a Professional Practice Exam!! I never heard of this, I have a Diploma max. and 4 and a half years supervised experience, don't know if that's recognized supervision. Any information on the above would be appreciated.

Supertech · 09-04-2013 11:10pm

If you are a registered Architect or Building Surveyor, or a Chartered Engineer, you' re fine.

If you're anything else you're not, and from March 1st next year you will be unable to sign the certificate from which that extract is taken.

It's that simple, and that serious.

Depending on your qualification and experience there a number of routes on to the register of architects. Routes to the Building Surveyors Register are less clear but seem less flexible. There is a defined progression route for engineers, but I don't have any experience in that area.

Brave Harvey · 10-04-2013 12:16am

If you are a registered Architect or Building Surveyor, or a Chartered Engineer, you' re fine.

If I apply to CIAT and become a member does that register me? Do I have to register with the Board of Admissions? I will defo look into this more over the next couple of days. Hard to decipher the legal mumbo jumbo!!

Supertech · 10-04-2013 7:50am

As it stands at the moment architectural technologists and CIAT are not included, and it appears unlikely at this stage that that situation will change. There's no such route as registering with the Board of Admissions. If you wish to supervise and certify at construction stage for compliance with Building Regulations you will need to undergo technical assessment or complete the Register Admission Examination an register as an Architect, or seek to Register as a Building Surveyor through one of the appropriate routes.

con1982 · 10-04-2013 1:47pm

Supertech wrote: »

If you are a registered Architect or Building Surveyor, or a Chartered Engineer, you' re fine.

If you're anything else you're not, and from March 1st next year you will be unable to sign the certificate from which that extract is taken.

It's that simple, and that serious.

Depending on your qualification and experience there a number of routes on to the register of architects. Routes to the Building Surveyors Register are less clear but seem less flexible. There is a defined progression route for engineers, but I don't have any experience in that area.

Just because someone isn't themselves a registered professional doesn't mean that they can't do design under the supervision of a registered professional. So the unregistered designer (eg Engineer pre chartered, etc) can still work within an organisation.

muffler · 10-04-2013 1:49pm

con1982 wrote: »

Just because someone isn't themselves a registered professional doesn't mean that they can't do design under the supervision of a registered professional. So the unregistered designer (eg Engineer pre chartered, etc) can still work within an organisation.

What about the "sole trader" though?

con1982 · 10-04-2013 1:54pm

muffler wrote: »

What about the "sole trader" though?

You are right. Having only worked within organisations I hadn't give it much thought.

If someone has managed do develop or sustain a construction based consultancy in the current market, I'd assume that they are probably well qualified. I suppose I'm coming from a structural engineer's perspective.

Is there any particular group of designers which you feel are at risk to the changes?

sydthebeat · 10-04-2013 2:56pm

con1982 wrote: »

Is there any particular group of designers which you feel are at risk to the changes?

The whole profession of architectural technology has been undermined by these changes.

There is some illogical thinking in this that all architects are technicians and all technician are wannabe architects

sydthebeat · 10-04-2013 4:40pm

con1982 wrote: »

Just because someone isn't themselves a registered professional doesn't mean that they can't do design under the supervision of a registered professional. So the unregistered designer (eg Engineer pre chartered, etc) can still work within an organisation.

"under supervision" would infer that the supervisor, who is the ultimate certifier, is the senior as regards technical knowledge.

the problem occurs when the designer is more knowledgeable than the certifier.
Cases will arise where the ultimate signatory of the certificate does not have the requisite knowledge to do so.
Forward to where the build is on site and the mess that will happen.
One of the underlining functions of the technician was to be the communication between the design architect and the builder.
That is now gone.... and the reasons for the initial formation will arise again.

sinnerboy · 10-04-2013 4:52pm

From the perspective of the housebuilding/extending client the exclusion of technicians limits the pool of persons available to quote for these technical design inspection and certification services. Will be very interesting to tune into Joe Duffy when that dawns on the general public....

Brave Harvey · 10-04-2013 5:04pm

As it stands at the moment architectural technologists and CIAT are not included, and it appears unlikely at this stage that that situation will change. There's no such route as registering with the Board of Admissions. If you wish to supervise and certify at construction stage for compliance with Building Regulations you will need to undergo technical assessment or complete the Register Admission Examination an register as an Architect, or seek to Register as a Building Surveyor through one of the appropriate routes.

Steady up here, Do you mean Architectural Technologists and CIAT are not allowed to inspect and certify at construction stage or not allowed to do work for the design stage?? Where does that leave lowly self employed Architectural Technicians who do work for the design and planning stage?? Whats the legislation for those who provide design and planning services??

sydthebeat · 10-04-2013 5:05pm

Brave Harvey wrote: »

Steady up here, Do you mean Architectural Technologists and CIAT are not allowed to inspect and certify at construction stage or not allowed to do work for the design stage?? Where does that leave lowly self employed Architectural Technicians who do work for the design and planning stage??

EXACTLY

Not allowed to Design, Inspect or Certify !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brave Harvey · 10-04-2013 5:10pm

Ah now that doesn't seem fair, I'm calling Joe Duffy tomorrow..

con1982 · 10-04-2013 5:47pm

CIAT link re:Building Control

http://www.ciat.org.uk/en/other/document_summary.cfm/docid/7C4E94BF-D40E-440E-894732D477DF31B6

Out of those qualified built environmental professionals, these Regulations as proposed, will exclude those professionals who are one of the most qualified to perform the function of certification. We therefore consider it essential that to ensure that our professionals in Ireland are able to practise and provide the skills required, which must include certifying compliance, such Regulations must include Chartered Architectural Technologists within the list of competent professionals. CIAT already holds a register of competent professionals and any Chartered Member who offers and provides services direct as a sole practitioner, partner or director must register their practice with the Institute, complying with the Institute’s regulations which include mandatory professional indemnity insurance, which is policed. The Institute has a zero tolerance policy on non‐compliance.

sinnerboy · 10-04-2013 5:50pm

Yes and the minister ignored this submission...

Supertech · 10-04-2013 6:08pm

sinnerboy wrote: »

Yes and the minister ignored this submission...

And every other submission from architectural technologists, which effectively all said the same thing.

What is very interesting in all this is the Minister's record in relation to what have now become known as 'practically trained architects' and indeed to architectural technologists and technicians at the time the original Building Control Act was being introduced. He was a staunch defender of the skills and abilities of these people at that stage, but seems to have developed a form of amnesia in the intervening years.

sydthebeat · 10-04-2013 6:41pm

sinnerboy wrote: »

Yes and the minister ignored this submission...

the only ones he listened to were his own civil servants who wanted no hand act or part in any responsibility for building control.....

even after EVERY other interested body called for MORE involvement.

disgraceful.

sinnerboy · 10-04-2013 7:13pm

Well I think the general public needs to be aware that under these news regs if

Scenario A .

They live in an apartment which is found to be defective. The only role that the Local authority will perform is to sell copies of documentation that they have carefully filed so that the homeowner may , in theory , more easily sue 2 or maybe 3 individuals i.e.
1. the provider of the Designers Certificate ,
2. the Provider of the Inspection and Compliance Certificate and
3. the builder.

The apartment dwellers plight nor the pyritic homeowners plight will be no better advanced than it is today

Mod reminder - we must not discuss real live cases here

Scenario B

You have had built or extended your house . In due course it transpires it has defects . Again The only role that the Local authority will perform is to sell copies of documentation that they have carefully filed so that homeowner may , in theory , more easily sue 2 or maybe 3 individuals i.e.
1. the provider of the Designers Certificate ,
2. the Provider of the Inspection and Compliance Certificate and
3. the builder.

Notice the activity of Local Authorities in all of this ?

And to the unfortunate homeowner in this situation expect to have pointed out to you that you did in fact sign and lodge with the Local Authority a document stating

As the building owner, I have assigned the following person as Builder of the works and I am satisfied that they are competent to undertake the works so assigned on my behalf

So the official response to a homeowner in such difficulty will be " what do you want us to do about your builder. Now off you go and fix up your own home"

Now consider this - the Local Property Tax , supposedly levied to provide funding for local government . Pity it doesn't serve to provide us with a UK style Local Authority Building Control Inspectorate.

Bullseye1 · 10-04-2013 7:50pm

For the purposes of this new BCA will planning application documents be considered design documents? As most if not all planning drawings are not fully designed/specified.

Brave Harvey · 10-04-2013 9:04pm

For the purposes of this new BCA will planning application documents be considered design documents? As most if not all planning drawings are not fully designed/specified.

At the Homebond Insurances lecture in Dublin recently and they pointed out that the drawings submitted to planning from March 2014 will have to be full spec drawings detailing how you plan to meet the regulations Part L and BER. This can only imo mean full specification and calculations. I think they mentioned working drawings but I will stand corrected.

Bullseye1 · 10-04-2013 9:11pm

It would be easy enough to provide this information with a BER assessment but there is more to working drawings than Part L. Structure would be a major element which would require some onsite assessment prior to designing foundations etc.

I would have thought that working drawings would be submitted with the commencement notice under this new arrangement.

sinnerboy · 10-04-2013 9:13pm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

For the purposes of this new BCA will planning application documents be considered design documents? As most if not all planning drawings are not fully designed/specified.

Planning application documents lodged with a planning application will be prepared in accordance with the Planning and Development Regulations 2001. Unless the self same documents are re submitted with a commencement notice under the new Building Regulations - then the answer is no.

Bullseye1 · 10-04-2013 9:15pm

Thanks S.

sinnerboy · 10-04-2013 9:21pm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

would have thought that working drawings would be submitted with the commencement notice under this new arrangement.

Essentially yes i.e. all drawings , specifications and calculations to show how you will comply with building regulations.

newbie2013 · 10-04-2013 9:54pm

what about paddy the builder up the road with no qualifictions down on paper yet is really handy at a few trades like block building,roofs plumbing and ground works etc..

The reason why i ask is that my father is quite handy at a few jobs and is hoping to build his 2nd home in 2015. Will he be able to build this way or will he have to get all tradesmen in now.

sinnerboy · 10-04-2013 10:15pm

He will have to hire an Architect , Engineer or Surveyor to

design - in technical details - before the works start
inspect regularly - during the works
certify - at completion of the works.

Detailed drawings and specifications and calculations ( more detailed than planning drawings ) will have to be prepared and lodged with council before works start.

If anything changes during the works , affecting building regulations , then updated drawings will have to be lodged with the council before the house can be used.

Supertech · 10-04-2013 10:19pm

It looks as if 'handy' won't cut it anymore.

The 'Building Owner' must now formally appoint 'The Builder' and confirm that he is satisfied that this person is competent to undertake the works. In turn, the Builder must accept this assignment in writing and confirm that he and any person employed by him or engaged by him will be competent to carry out the works, and that he will certify that the works are in compliance with Building Regulations.

On completion of the project, 'The Builder' must then co-sign the completion certificate with the 'Assigned Person'. There's no mention of insurances on the certificate for the Builder - yet !! Can't see the 'Assigned Persons' letting that lie for long. A lot of talk during the run up to publication was about the professions being the 'insurer of last resort' with builders going bankrupt and escaping legal action.

I'd guess in any case that certifying your own build might cause problems, although as it stands at present on 'direct labour' type jobs the person signing off essentially accepts full responsibility for compliance of the build, so that may continue.

It will be interesting to see how the Building Control Authorities handle this type of case.

muffler · 10-04-2013 10:25pm

First up I haven't read through the entire SI but from what I can determine based on what I have read to date is that the days of direct labour/self build are drawing to a close unless the legal eagles (as has been done before) come to some form of agreed wording on the certs.

hexosan · 10-04-2013 10:42pm

If you have received planning prior to 2014 are you still required to comply with these requirements if you commence construction after its introduction

sinnerboy · 10-04-2013 11:01pm

The dates attached to your planning permission do not affect this.

The only way to avoid being bound by these regulations if you intend to build is to lodge a Commencement Notice on or before 28 Feb 2014.

DOCARCH · 11-04-2013 7:22am

newbie2013 wrote: »

what about paddy the builder up the road with no qualifictions down on paper yet is really handy at a few trades like block building,roofs plumbing and ground works etc..

The reason why i ask is that my father is quite handy at a few jobs and is hoping to build his 2nd home in 2015. Will he be able to build this way or will he have to get all tradesmen in now.

sinnerboy wrote: »

He will have to hire an Architect , Engineer or Surveyor...

Also to add insult to injury, to excuse the pun, with new Health & Safety Regulations coming into place this June, he will also have to appoint (seperately) a Project Supervisor Design Stage and Project Supervisor Construction Stage.

In my opinion, once Joe Public gets to hear about both these new regulations (or understand them), BCA and H&S, I think Joe Public is going to get quite a shock and think twice/really hard about undertaking building work or large extension. Both these new regulations will drive up professional fees and construction costs in general.

Without some sort of formal registration of builders, and, in essence, some sort of quasi 'professional' insurance for builders, the whole thing, to be honest, is daft! I know the RIAI is pushing for the provision of Latent Defects Insurance on projects, which I assume the contractor would put in place (no doubt at the cleints exepense) that would last for 10 years to cover defects.

As mentioned somewhere above, nothing to stop a contractor shutting up shop on a regular basis and setting up again in a new guise, as a new company, and in effect regularly washing his hands of past work.

DOCARCH · 11-04-2013 8:21am

sinnerboy wrote: »

5. Notice of Assignment of Builder . You confirm you have appointed a competent builder.

6. Undertaking by Builder . The builder confirms your appointment of him . He confirms he is competent and that he knows and will build to regs.[/B]

Both the above points = daft....without some sort of formal registration of builders!

I'd love to know what qualifies a builder as competent?

In 15 years in practice I have yet to come across a builder that 'knows' the building regulations - some know bits and pieces - some are 10 years behind in their knowledge - others are in complete denial of building regulations to the extent that one builder I pulled up on site (not really in jest) told me to 'go f**k your building regulations'!

Note in that quote the 'your' bit...that says it all. I often have to remind builders (and clients) they are not some sort of fancy pants 'architect regulations'.

sinnerboy · 11-04-2013 8:38am

Yes and the Department of the Environment officials and the Minister are fully aware of the nature of those in the construction industry and the disdain of so many working there for regulations.

They have been lobbied hard for all the powers that the Building Control Act 1990 confers on Local authorities be in fact exercised by Local Authorities.

Instead clients will have to declare they are satisfied that the builder knows the regs and will build to them!

And no designer , inspector or certifier can force a belligerant builder to comply with regulations . I say that after 25+ years in practice as an architectural technician. Local authorities can enforce regulations and have imposed financial and other punishments for non compliance as provided by law.

Again I repeat our state agencies are seeking more from us in taxes and withdrawing more from us in terms of there legally mandated responsibilities here.

tootsy70 · 11-04-2013 7:15pm

sinnerboy wrote: »

He will have to hire an Architect , Engineer or Surveyor to

design - in technical details - before the works start
inspect regularly - during the works
certify - at completion of the works.

Detailed drawings and specifications and calculations ( more detailed than planning drawings ) will have to be prepared and lodged with council before works start.

If anything changes during the works , affecting building regulations , then updated drawings will have to be lodged with the council before the house can be used.

Is that not what already gets done with direct labour

tootsy70 · 11-04-2013 7:20pm

Supertech wrote: »

It looks as if 'handy' won't cut it anymore.

The 'Building Owner' must now formally appoint 'The Builder' and confirm that he is satisfied that this person is competent to undertake the works. In turn, the Builder must accept this assignment in writing and confirm that he and any person employed by him or engaged by him will be competent to carry out the works, and that he will certify that the works are in compliance with Building Regulations.

Would this not be just passing on the buck to builders now, more or less i can see the handy men still doing what they do best and getting a builder in to pass the work.

I know quite a few people who have built their own houses themselves and know 3 guys who are also in the process of looking for sites with the idea of doing all the work themselves when they start in 2014/15. Theyll be in for a shock when they hear these new regs but i guess there will be a way around it

Supertech · 11-04-2013 7:29pm

tootsy70 wrote: »

Would this not be just passing on the buck to builders now, more or less i can see the handy men still doing what they do best and getting a builder in to pass the work.

I know quite a few people who have built their own houses themselves and know 3 guys who are also in the process of looking for sites with the idea of doing all the work themselves when they start in 2014/15. Theyll be in for a shock when they hear these new regs but i guess there will be a way around it

I wouldn't see it as passing the buck certainly. The Builder is already supposed to know the Building Regulations and to build in accordance with them.

It won't be as simple as getting the Builder in to pass the work, as he, like the Assigned Certifier, will have to sign a certificate accepting responsibility for the works as completed at the end of the project. I suppose it could be done, but that brings a Building Contractor into the equation which is the exact opposite of what happens with direct labour, and introduces another variable and another fee into the mix.

dathi · 11-04-2013 10:08pm

only had a quick read but surely the self builder only has to set up a limited company "bob the builder very limited" and nominate them as "the builder" to circumvent the regs. use direct labor then cease trading after certifying house ?

Building Control (Amendment) Regulations 2013

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