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''Islam is a religion of peace'' (debate)

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Comments

  • #702
    HavingCrack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Yes they were "used" but for surveillance not for search and destroy missions and therefore never "attacked" anyone.

    Fair enough I always thought they were used for offensive purposes in both Bosnia and Kosovo, after a bit of research it's clear they were the early stage of development. "Offensive" UAV's only came into being in 2000/2001.

    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Okay, but there are unconfirmed reports of alien abductions. Unconfrimed reports are worthless.
    Shrug, I agree but I do give some of those reports a bit of creedence. I very much suspect that the US has utilised UAV's in Mexico and Colombia but as you say I await firm evidence.
    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Which leaves us with 100% of all drone attacks - Somalia, Yemen, Palestine, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan - targetting Muslims.

    This isn't as suprising as it appears if you allow me to explain. All US conflicts since the end of Kosovo have involved Muslim states due to the "War" on Terror. Furthermore UAV technology is very new. As far as I am aware the US has not been involved in any war with non-Muslim countries since then so no reason for offensive droens to be used. If the US becomes involved in warfare in non-Muslim areas any time soon expect Predators to be out in force very quickly.

    I haven't had time to research the UAV capabilities of any other state to any great extent. I know Italy, France, UK, Germany, Turkey, possibly Taiwan and Iran and Israel have operational offensive drones.I also firmly suspect China and Russia do. From what I can see only Israel has used them offensively.


    Anyway this is very far off topic so maybe I should just stop there.


  • #703
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    However, you do raise an interesting point. Are you suggesting that MLK could have been motivated by oppression and injustice to take action? That his religious beleifs have nothing to do with it, despite him being religious? That has been my point all along regarding Islamic extremism.

    I'm not saying his religious beliefs had nothing to do with it, just that it was no coincidence that one of the greatest leaders of the civil rights movement was an African-American. Had he been white, I feel confident in assuming his beliefs wouldn't have had such an inspiring effect.


  • #704
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Had he been white, I feel confident in assuming his beliefs wouldn't have had such an inspiring effect.

    It's impossible to say, especially as they were white religious people who were inspired by their faith to commit to the same cause such as Jonathan Myrick Daniels, a seminarian who was killed for marching before MLK. He wrote on his inspiration/motivation:
    "My soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour." I had come to Evening Prayer as usual that evening, and as usual I was singing the Magnificat with the special love and reverence I have always felt for Mary's glad song. "He hath showed strength with his arm." As the lovely hymn of the God-bearer continued, I found myself peculiarly alert, suddenly straining toward the decisive, luminous, Spirit-filled "moment" that would, in retrospect, remind me of others--particularly one at Easter three years ago. Then it came. "He hath put down the mighty from their seat, and hath exalted the humble and meek. He hath filled the hungry with good things." I knew then that I must go to Selma. The Virgin's song was to grow more and more dear in the weeks ahead.
    http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bio/228.html


  • #705
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    HavingCrack wrote: »
    Fair enough I always thought they were used for offensive purposes in both Bosnia and Kosovo, after a bit of research it's clear they were the early stage of development. "Offensive" UAV's only came into being in 2000/2001.
    So it's now established that drones have only ever attacked Muslims. can you at least imagine how this could be troublesome for Muslims?
    HavingCrack wrote: »
    This isn't as suprising as it appears if you allow me to explain. All US conflicts since the end of Kosovo have involved Muslim states due to the "War" on Terror. Furthermore UAV technology is very new. As far as I am aware the US has not been involved in any war with non-Muslim countries since then so no reason for offensive droens to be used. If the US becomes involved in warfare in non-Muslim areas any time soon expect Predators to be out in force very quickly.
    .
    Yes, but it's the "War on Terror" which is targetting Muslims, as we have established that is creating "terrorists" which you seem to exlusively blame on religion.

    For example, Jeremy Scahill visited Yemen for The Nation recently.
    The October drone strike that killed Awlaki’s 16-year-old son, Abdulrahman, a US citizen, and his teenage cousin shocked and enraged Yemenis of all political stripes. “I firmly believe that the [military] operations implemented by the US performed a great service for Al Qaeda, because those operations gave Al Qaeda unprecedented local sympathy,” says Jamal, the Yemeni journalist. The strikes “have recruited thousands.” Yemeni tribesmen, he says, share one common goal with Al Qaeda, “which is revenge against the Americans, because those who were killed are the sons of the tribesmen, and the tribesmen never, ever give up on revenge.” Even senior officials of the Saleh regime recognize the damage the strikes have caused. “People certainly resent these [US] interventions,” Qirbi, the foreign minister and a close Saleh ally, concedes.
    http://www.thenation.com/article/166265/washingtons-war-yemen-backfires


  • #706
    HavingCrack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    So it's now established that drones have only ever attacked Muslims. can you at least imagine how this could be troublesome for Muslims?

    Indeed.
    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Yes, but it's the "War on Terror" which is targetting Muslims, as we have established that is creating "terrorists" which you seem to exlusively blame on religion.

    If you read my posts I never blamed religion solely for creating Islamic terrorist groups. As you point out the actions of the US are the main cause (90%) for the rise in Islamic based terrorism. Extremism has always been present within all religions but it is only since the 1990's that Islamic terrorist groups have really become prominant. The end of the Cold War and the shifit in geopolitics as a new "enemy" for the US to find probably has the biggest part to play in the upsurge.
    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    For example, Jeremy Scahill visited Yemen for The Nation recently.

    I agree, US drone attacks have had the opposite affect of what was intended and have driven more Muslims to join extremist groups.


  • #707
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    It's nice to actually agree with someone in this thread. :D
    HavingCrack wrote: »
    I agree, US drone attacks have had the opposite affect of what was intended and have driven more Muslims to join extremist groups.
    It's
    called "Insurgent Math".

    Insurgent Math’ is an arithmetic championed by Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who was the commander of U.S.-led coalition forces in Afghanistan before Obama impressed him into the American army of the unemployed. ‘Insurgent Math’ holds that, “for every innocent person you kill, you create 10 new enemies.”
    http://www.whyweworry.com/2010/07/09/insurgent-math/

    The Times Square Bomber was a result of this insurgent math. He in most regards was living the American Dream. He had a good education, good job, a home, a wife and children. Then the CIA started bombing the land where his family lived in Pakistan - killing civilians, destroying homes and livestock etc. His own utterly corrupt government offered no defense to his tribal kin and he decided that he, himself must offer a form of resistance which was Islamic terrorism. Perceived injustice led him to Jihad. It was not that he was being very, very Muslim.

    Of course he was absolutely wrong, I don't defend him for a second but the motivation is not a million miles away from the huge surge in recruits to the US armed forces in the aftermath of 9/11. Incidentally, Bales the guy who went on a killing spree in Kandahar was one of these recruits.


  • #708
    Voodoo_rasher
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭Voodoo_rasher


    Rottweiler of the Vatican who quoted Islam as being the religion of the sword..)


  • #709
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Standman wrote: »
    Have you actually watched the debate, or are you comfortable enough continuing your ad hominems on the debaters and insinuating that it's some kind of Zionist conspiracy to make Islam look bad?

    Waddya know, looks like I was right all along.
    Brown Bomber wrote: »

    As for this pantomine of a debate it reeks of a setup to me.

    A debate on Islam funded by a CFR billionaire, produced by a former employee of Benjamin Netanyahu in the red corner the two aforementioned professional Islam hating propogandists and on the other an "Islamic" think-tank founder from the UK which receives government funding.
    MagicMarker wrote: »
    For the motion: Zeba Khan & Maajid Nawaz
    Against the motion: Ayaan Hirsi Ali & Douglas Murray

    You'll need to know this:
    Maajid Nawaz: Co-Founder & Chairman | Quilliam Foundation

    and this:

    EXPOSED: Quilliam leadership directly involved with neocon Douglas Murray’s Henry Jackson Society


  • #710
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Here around we don't believe in the resurrection.
    This thread was asleep for 640 days let's let it rest in peace.


This discussion has been closed.
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