Aircoach Dublin-Cork express

n97 mini · 05-05-2012 2:15pm

Tragedy wrote: »

€90 in petrol

That averages 22-23mpg. Most people would have more efficient cars than that.

I can do it return for €40, which still isn't poor enough to entice me onto the bus I'm afraid.

devnull · 06-05-2012 11:10pm

Such tactics that AlekSmart portrays would be valid if Aircoach are going to at least try and market the service a little bit.

You can't dominate a marketplace over a rival if nobody knows about you.

Tragedy · 07-05-2012 11:54pm

n97 mini wrote: »

That averages 22-23mpg. Most people would have more efficient cars than that.

I can do it return for €40, which still isn't poor enough to entice me onto the bus I'm afraid.

No it doesn't.

167.9p per litre(when I went down last), 320miles = 27.5 mpg.

To get to Cork and back you would have to be driving a diesel car that will get 58mpg combined including motorway(120km/h) and city centre traffic, so I think you got both figures badly wrong.

bk · 08-05-2012 12:29pm

Well this is absolutely fantastic news for people traveling between Dublin and Cork.

In particular I'm delighted to see so many late night/early morning services. IR and BE failed miserably in this area with no services ex Cork after 8:30. It was a disgrace that there were no such services between our two largest cities.

I have to laugh at some of the hatred and disbelief been shown on this thread. It seems clear that some people are afraid of all this new competition.

And maybe reducing the normal services too much??

I'm sure Aircoach are well aware of the number of people who board at intermediate stops and have now seen how many people were using their direct services over the last month. I assume they saw a healthy increase in numbers on the direct route and have made probably a relatively low risk gamble of switching buses from stopping service to the direct service, knowing they would lose customers on the stopping service but will make up for it with increased customers on the direct service, as they steal customers from Bus Eireann (slower) and Irish Rail (much more expensive). Sounds like a reasonable strategy to me.

Also don't forget, less fuel used on these new direct services, so more savings there.

Yes, it seems BE are being left with the stopping service and DSP passengers. I wonder if BE see this as their future. It kind of looks that way, their recent coach purchase looks more suited to a stopping service then suited to competition with the direct services (no on-board toilets).

I would dispute that private operators can't operate stopping services too. Citylink do to Galway, with their bi-hourly stopping service in addition to their hourly direct service. I assume Aircoach has just decided that there is more money to be made by moving buses and drivers over to the direct service. But perhaps they will again increase the numbers of the stopping service as they get new buses and drivers.

kieran4003 wrote:

Aircoach are engaged in the classic monopoly strategy of preventing entry to keep monopoly power. ...
Monopolies do this regardless of how loss making it is.

I have to laugh at people calling Aircoach a "monopoly". What monopoly is there when you have to compete with car, BE, IR and hopefully soon GoBus.

Doesn't sound much like a monopoly to me, more like healthy competition.

kieran4003 wrote:

There is certainly nowhere near the demand to sustain that level of service but they must be absolutely petrified of Go Bus coming in, operating a superior service and taking over.

Why isn't there demand for such a service?

If there is demand for an almost hourly 24 hour Bus Eireann service to Belfast, why wouldn't there be the same market to Cork?

The total capacity of Aircoach direct services is now about 850 people per day. To put that in context, just one Irish Rail Mark4 Intercity has a seated capacity of 422 passengers. It seems to me it shouldn't be too hard to fill seats, but taking customers from IR and BE services, maybe even some from the car.

I agree however that they really need to do a much better job with pr and advertising.

kieran4003 wrote:

At the moment however, Bus Eireann & Iarnrod Eireann are taking no notice of the new service as the bulk of the passengers using it are those using their old stopping service.

I'm not so sure about that, IR's new pricing policy (€20 one way to Cork if booked three days in advance) smells very much like a response to this.

kieran4003 wrote:

Bus Eireann are monitoring the situation though.

What exactly does that mean? What can BE even do if things go pear shaped?

My understanding is that the NTA will issue only two direct non stop hourly licenses per route. So if GoBus use their license, then BE won't be able to launch their own competing direct service. It will be the same as Galway, where BE can't really compete with the direct services and instead sort of badly did a deal with GoBus to sell tickets on GoBuses service.

Maybe they could do the same in Cork, partner with GoBus, maybe even leave GoBus use their bus station, but I can't see anything else they can do?

One point I'd like to make, everyone here seems to be assuming this new Aircoach service is in response to GoBus. While, yes we heard about the GoBus rumour here on boards first, looking at the license spreadsheet, it would seem Aircoach applied for their license about two months before GoBus. So it would seem Aircoach were always planning to launch.

I hope GoBus will also launch their service. While some of my Corkonian friends living in Dublin have already switched from rail to bus since this new service launched. Others are still sticking to rail, due to the lack of on-board toilet and also helped by the new cheaper IR tickets. But they would definitely switch if GoBus launched with toilets on-board.

n97 mini wrote: »

I can do it return for €40, which still isn't poor enough to entice me onto the bus I'm afraid.

And what about tolls? You are more looking at €60 for most people.

It probably will attract at least some drivers. One of my friends has already switched from car to Aircoach. But it isn't for everyone.

One thing, pity there is no service between 19:00 and 01:00 ex Cork. I think it could do with a 21:00 service between there.

I also wonder how are they going to handle coach parking space when both the direct and stopping services clash (e.g. 17:00 and 19:00 ex Dublin Westmoreland St).

One thing that will be interesting if GoBus launch, is what bus stop they will use. Their current Galway bus stop on the quays isn't a great location, being very exposed, with no shops/cafe near by. Aircoachs Westmoreland St stop is much nicer location.

LXFlyer · 08-05-2012 2:49pm

bk wrote: »

I'm not so sure about that, IR's new pricing policy (€20 one way to Cork if booked three days in advance) smells very much like a response to this.

For about the umpteenth time (I note you keep ignoring this), it probably has far more to do with the appointment of a new Commercial Director (from outside the company) at IE.

The IE sale is across the entire network (and not just Dublin/Cork) and would have required some planning in advance. Given no one knew about the planned Aircoach service until they announced it, I find it difficult to believe that it is anything other than a new initiative from the Commercial Director.

bk wrote: »

One thing that will be interesting if GoBus launch, is what bus stop they will use. Their current Galway bus stop on the quays isn't a great location, being very exposed, with no shops/cafe near by. Aircoachs Westmoreland St stop is much nicer location.

It may be "nicer" but it is an absolute disgrace that we see long distance coaches picking up at a long standing (and busy) Dublin Bus stop. It is frankly not a safe situation at all, and the sooner Aircoach are moved from there to somewhere where a coach can dwell without blocking other services the better.

bk · 08-05-2012 3:04pm

lxflyer wrote: »

For about the umpteenth time (I note you keep ignoring this), it probably has far more to do with the appointment of a new Commercial Director (from outside the company) at IE.

And I don't know why you keep going on about this Commercial Director, as if it should mean something.

Personally I think it is quiet shocking that IR management are so inept that they have to bring in an outside person to fill this role. Surely it shouldn't be too hard for IR management to look around them, see the competition they face and come up with a plan on how to respond.

Anyway is it not irrelevant that this commercial director is an external person, as now is s/he not an IR employee, now that IR has hired him?

Also the recent consulatants report into intercity rail transport recommended this very system, so it may not have come from a commercial director.

lxflyer wrote: »

The IE sale is across the entire network (and not just Dublin/Cork) and would have required some planning in advance. Given no one knew about the planned Aircoach service until they announced it, I find it difficult to believe that it is anything other than a new initiative from the Commercial Director.

Actually the Aircoach license was issued and public knowledge (we just didn't notice here on boards) since early February, you could see it on the NTA license site.

Also there is every possibility that they had some heads up from the NTA on what was coming down the line.

As for the nationwide aspect, well they are suffering from the same competition on much of their network already, with similar express services to Galway, Limerick, Belfast, etc. now running.

I'm not saying it is just a direct response to the new Aircoach service, but rather a response to all this new competition from the private coach companies on multiple roots.

Whatever way you try to spin it, the last 2 months have brought fantastic news for the Cork to Dublin Traveler:

- Fast, cheap, hourly bus services
- Late night/early morning services
- Cheaper train tickets

It is very good news and shows why competition works and is good for most people.

LXFlyer · 08-05-2012 3:27pm

bk wrote: »

And I don't know why you keep going on about this Commercial Director, as if it should mean something.

Personally I think it is quiet shocking that IR management are so inept that they have to bring in an outside person to fill this role. Surely it shouldn't be too hard for IR management to look around them, see the competition they face and come up with a plan on how to respond.

Anyway is it not irrelevant that this commercial director is an external person, as now is s/he not an IR employee, now that IR has hired him?

Also the recent consulatants report into intercity rail transport recommended this very system, so it may not have come from a commercial director.

The reason I keep mentioning it, and the reason it is relevant, is because at last someone with some commercial experience outside Irish Rail has been appointed. He will not be tainted with the same mentality that unfortunately many internal IE managers have been, and will hopefully bring a breath of badly fresh air to this aspect of the company.

You clearly have not had many dealings directly with some (and I do stress some) Irish Rail managers over the years. If you had, you would realise the relevance of this.

bk wrote: »

Actually the Aircoach license was issued and public knowledge (we just didn't notice here on boards) since early February, you could see it on the NTA license site.

Also there is every possibility that they had some heads up from the NTA on what was coming down the line.

As for the nationwide aspect, well they are suffering from the same competition on much of their network already, with similar express services to Galway, Limerick, Belfast, etc. now running.

I'm not saying it is just a direct response to the new Aircoach service, but rather a response to all this new competition from the private coach companies on multiple roots.

Whatever way you try to spin it, the last 2 months have brought fantastic news for the Cork to Dublin Traveler:

- Fast, cheap, hourly bus services
- Late night/early morning services
- Cheaper train tickets

It is very good news and shows why competition works and is good for most people.

I'm not trying to spin anything. I just felt you were reading too much into it, as your original post did suggest it was a direct response to the new Aircoach service, which, I suspect, is not the case, but rather a change in strategy.

And for clarity I too welcome all the new services (as I did when they were announced) - it offers choice and that is only good for the consumer.

foggy_lad · 08-05-2012 5:39pm

People should remember that this IR sale is just that, A Sale and it will come to an end soon enough. The normal prices are still the same for their services so nothing has really changed.

dowlingm · 08-05-2012 5:51pm

bk:

Last week you told us that Aircoach would happily serve regional towns if only they would be given route licences to do so.
This week you tell us that regional towns and DSP customers Aircoach serve now don't make Aircoach enough coin but never fear BE will pick up the culchies, junkies, grannies and students.

Maybe it's just me but I don't think that's what people expected from "competition".

bk · 08-05-2012 6:32pm

dowlingm wrote: »

Last week you told us that Aircoach would happily serve regional towns if only they would be given route licences to do so.

Please give a quote or link to where I said that?

Because I didn't say that. My position is very straight forward:

- Where a private operator is willing to operate a route with no subsidy, they should be allowed to do so within certain conditions and rules laid out by the NTA (e.g. frequency of service, schedule, quality of buses, etc.)

- Where no private operator is willing to operate a service (due to it not being profitable enough), but it is deemed socially necessary to service a particular route, then the route should be put out to tender, with the government offering to partly subsidise it. It would then be open to both BE, IR and private operators to bid on the route and the lowest bidder (again within the license conditions of frequency, etc.) should get the route.

The Aircoach situation is quiet clear. They had two similar routes, they found one route to be more profitable then the other and they have now shifted buses and drivers to the more profitable route.

It doesn't mean that the stopping service isn't profitable, just not as profitable and it also doesn't mean that in time, Aircoach mightn't get new buses and drivers and increase frequency on the stopping service again.

While private companies are happy to operate profitable routes, obviously. They also don't have unlimited money up fornt and it takes time and money to get new buses and drivers. So obviously a private company is going to use it's limited resources where they make the most money.

The DSP situation has nothing to do with Aircoach, rather it has to do with the Department of Transport and Dept of Finance and the DFSA deciding to block DSP being introduced on all new public transport. This will also effect BE if they launch any new routes and is already effecting DB (see the 747).

Aircoach have simply decided that they will make more money selling tickets on the direct route then getting DSP payments on an indirect route. Seems like a perfectly reasonable business decision to me, specially as DSP people can get on the train for free, so that is hard for the bus companies to compete with. I'm sure they would take DSP on thier direct routes if they were allowed.

This is more an issue of how badly the DSP is broken and how badly it needs to be fixed. If you think about it the current situation is crazy. A DSP person can get an €80 ticket for free between Cork and Dublin, but not a €22 ticket. Thus it costs us, the taxpayer more.

I'm of the opinion that the DSP should be capped at something like €20 - €25 return for intercity journeys and should be open to BE, IR and all the private companies and that the full ticket price is paid for each ticket bought, rather then a general subvention.

This way a person could decide to get a BE/Aircoach bus free, or pay the extra €60 to take the train. This would be fairer to all the transport companies and would likely cost the tax payer less, while continuing to enable the heat of the DSP scheme, to allow the elderly and other persons to continue to be a constructive part of society.

LXFlyer · 08-05-2012 7:28pm

bk wrote: »

The DSP situation has nothing to do with Aircoach, rather it has to do with the Department of Transport and Dept of Finance and the DFSA deciding to block DSP being introduced on all new public transport. This will also effect BE if they launch any new routes and is already effecting DB (see the 747).

As I pointed out before here, the 747 has never been covered by the Free Travel Scheme. There has been no change with regard to DB.

At least check your facts before posting statements such as this.

DB, BE and IE all receive lump sum amounts that are capped from the DFSA. They do not get reimbursed for each individual user.

bk · 08-05-2012 8:39pm

lxflyer wrote: »

As I pointed out before here, the 747 has never been covered by the Free Travel Scheme. There has been no change with regard to DB.

At least check your facts before posting statements such as this.

DB, BE and IE all receive lump sum amounts that are capped from the DFSA. They do not get reimbursed for each individual user.

Hmm, I never said it did, please link or quote where I said it did. Checking your facts goes both ways you know?

Yes, the 747 never has had free travel, since DB and the Dept were never able to come to agreement on how much. The same applies to all new routes since roughly 2009. That is my point and is factually correct. If DB want to start up any sort of non standard route like the 747, they face the same problems as Aircoach and others do now.

BTW nice job in avoiding all the other issues I raise.

LXFlyer · 08-05-2012 9:05pm

bk wrote: »

Hmm, I never said it did, please link or quote where I said it did. Checking your facts goes both ways you know?

Yes, the 747 never has had free travel, since DB and the Dept were never able to come to agreement on how much. The same applies to all new routes since roughly 2009. That is my point and is factually correct. If DB want to start up any sort of non standard route like the 747, they face the same problems as Aircoach and others do now.

BTW nice job in avoiding all the other issues I raise.

I don't believe it's my job to respond to every point you raise? No need for a smug statement such as the last one.

I specifically raised it because the 747 nor the Airport Coach Service that preceded it were never covered by the free travel scheme. It is not a recent issue. I have timetables from the 1960s and 1970s that show the same situation prevailed back in the day of CIE Dublin City Services.

Your post certainly suggested this was a recent issue.

LeftBlank · 08-05-2012 10:17pm

bk wrote: »

The Aircoach situation is quiet clear. They had two similar routes, they found one route to be more profitable then the other

I sincerely doubt that Aircoach are turning any profit on the express service yet. They may do in future, but they may not. I do agree that this move is to try and stave off competition on the express service.

bk · 08-05-2012 11:24pm

lxflyer wrote: »

I don't believe it's my job to respond to every point you raise? No need for a smug statement such as the last one.

Two posts in a row now have accused me of making statements that I clearly did not make.

You are the one making snarky comments, telling me:

lxflyer wrote:

At least check your facts before posting statements such as this

I always check my facts before posting to the best of my ability, far more so then most people on boards and I always admit when I make a mistake. But this was not the case in either of these posts.

AlekSmart · 09-05-2012 6:20am

bk wrote: »

I also wonder how are they going to handle coach parking space when both the direct and stopping services clash (e.g. 17:00 and 19:00 ex Dublin Westmoreland St).

One thing that will be interesting if GoBus launch, is what bus stop they will use. Their current Galway bus stop on the quays isn't a great location, being very exposed, with no shops/cafe near by. Aircoachs Westmoreland St stop is much nicer location.

It's quite a damning indictment of NTA policy and it's senior management that not one of them could take a ramble along to Westmoreland St in order to assess the fruits of their endeavours.

The NTA's non-interest now imposes a significantly increased level of risk to all users,public and staff,of Public Transport on Westmoreland St.

The answer is alarmingly simple,seperate the City Services from the Coach Services.

I am now of the belief that ALL Dublin Bus routes should by-pass the street,and the stops thus freed up then be allocated to whatever Coach Services are there.

Spread them out for SAFETY.

If,on the other hand,the NTA and the respective responsible authorities cannot see the need for immediate action,then lets just wait for the,now inevitable serious,accident....:mad:

BenShermin · 09-05-2012 9:35pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

I am now of the belief that ALL Dublin Bus routes should by-pass the street,and the stops thus freed up then be allocated to whatever Coach Services are there.

Can't agree with this at all, I know it's childish, but Dublin Bus were stopping on Westmorland Street a long time before the coach operators came in, why should they move? It would also lead to an unreasonable gap in bus stops for cross city services, for example the 46a wouldn't have a stop between Suffolk Street and Upper O'Connell Street, this would only lead to more overcrowding at Suffolk Street imo and we all know the H&S problems already there! It also takes some of the value and convience away from the city centre fare.

A more simplistic solution, albiet a stop-gap measure would be to re-arrange the bus stops on Aston Quay to make room for the intercity coaches. I'll refer to the bus stop letters to on this map to explain.

To start, when the 79/a service changes to cross city under Network Direct, there is no need for it to stop at bus stop AE anymore, move it to stop AC where the 145 stops (this offers improved options to Heuston).

Move the 25, 25a, 25b bus stop AJ to stop CE on Westmorland Street, this stop is only used by Lucan corridor expressos at the moment and could well handle the route 25 buses, (this offers improved options for Lucan corridor users).

Merge the 51d, 69, 69x bus stop AD with stop AF or AG, at an average of only one bus an hour between the routes there's no need for these buses to have their own stop on Aston Quay.

And there you have it, with a tiny bit of a shuffle you have three bus stops cleared up for the private intercity coaches to dwell. Before Network Direct is wasn't odd to see seven or eight double decker buses parked up in this strech so I see no safety issue. Granted it doesn't solve Aircoaches to Dublin Airport stopping on Westmorland Street nor the Stena Line Mortons coach, but it does ease a lot of the pressure!

devnull · 10-05-2012 8:37pm

With regards to Suffolk Street this problem could easily be improved by a better distribution of bus services

there is simply too many Dublin Bus services going down that street with the distribution of buses between the two stops by Dublin Bus a very large part of the problem, something that is under the control of Dublin Bus

For example even now, well outside peak, I can see:

Suffolk Street Stop NK (Nearest to Aircoach/City Tours Stop)
Serves 7b 7d 11 14 15 15a 15b 37 38 38a 38b 39 39a 46a 46e 70 116 118 140 142 145
22 Buses in the next hour on RTPI.

Suffolk Street Stop NJ (Nearest Grafton Street)
Serves 25 25a 25b 25x 32x 41x 66x 67x 84x
4 Buses in the next hour on RPTI.

The distribution of those two stops is quite frankly a joke, you have all of the high frequency routes on the stop that is nearest to the Aircoach and Tours stop, with all of the Xpresso services that run limited times a day on the other stop where there is more room. It's obvious a better balance needs to be struck, and with or without tours or coach services there will still be a problem.

SandyfordGuy · 11-05-2012 2:30pm

How about we bring this thread back on topic.

The new flyer for the Aircoach service drops most mentions of the indirect service, surely a clue that the days on the other services could be quite numbered.

http://www.aircoach.ie/media/Cork%20120509.pdf

devnull · 11-05-2012 3:30pm

I doubt there is enough trade for intermediate passengers to make a service viable on their own apart from on a few occasions, I'd say previously before the changes end to end and intermediate passengers made many services viable, but there is not much money to be made, rather more to be lost if the end to end are took out of the intermediate services.

BenShermin · 11-05-2012 3:53pm

Given the huge level of service given by Aircoach on the Dublin to Cork route now will Gobus actually utilise their licence for this route. It all seems quiet on that front of late. I sincerely hope they do run a service as their coaches offer superior levels of comfort to anything Aircoach have IMO.

devnull · 11-05-2012 4:31pm

Can't say I agree, The Volvo's GoBus have less legroom, tiered seating which is terrible for anyone tall, especially if you sit down the back, seats that don't properly recline (reclining moves them forward) and they're not leather. Other than that the coaches are fine but for anyone over 6ft1 or so they're awful and uncomfortable.

The Jonck's Aircoach have on that Cork route are full leather, seats that recline a lot, lots of legroom and a smoother ride as the seats are further from the ground. They also have level seating the whole way from front to back. The only downside is the lack of toilet and the fact there is nowhere to store anything on the seat in front.

I generally prefer Citylink for Dublin to Galway, as they have vehicles that are specified far better inside for tall people.

highlydebased · 11-05-2012 9:13pm

kieran4003 wrote: »

The preparations for the improved train schedule are underway, Irish Rail ran a trial train non stop from Dublin - Cork last night to try the times. There will be huge improvements in a new timetable, but I dont think it will be anytime soon. There are new rails dumped along the line in several places, there is a lot of relaying ongoing. In addition Lisduff has been completly dug up and it will be a few months before it gets its long awaited speed increase.

It really is amazing what competition can do, Irish Rail are dramatically speeding up the rail works and have lowered fares. Bus Eireann are not as concerned as their main market is the intermediate towns, which Aircoach no longer serve and the passengers will move to BE. I must say aswell, the Aircoach service is very punctual, I have seen it arriving in Cork, just a pity it is never well filled. Advertising would sort that.

A little birdy told me they are planning a similar trial for Limerick and Galway too

Judgement Day · 11-05-2012 10:01pm

Yeah, everything will be alright now with Irish Rail - all they needed was a little competition to shake them up. :rolleyes: If you haven't noticed, CIE's normal reaction to competition is to jack up fares, cutback services etc.etc......Time will tell.

bk · 12-05-2012 1:33pm

It is great news that IR are improving times to Cork.

But it pisses me off that they didn't do this years ago. Only when competition appears do thy suddenly find ways to reduce the journey times and suddenly find plenty of money to upgrade tracks!!

Goes to show CIE don't do anything unless forced to do so, no proactive development.

Sea Filly · 12-05-2012 2:11pm

Got the 19:00 Cork Dublin express service yesterday. It made TWO stops! Urlingford and Portlaoise. The driver stopped in Portlaoise because two passengers asked him if he was stopping there, and he bowed to pressure. So it got in at half ten. Express should be express, but in fairness, many passengers were unaware of the timetable changes.

devnull · 12-05-2012 2:21pm

Someone actually got off or on in Portlaoise? I've never seen that happen before as it's hardly a great location for the stop.

The timetable changed on the 9th May so I guess it shouldn't be something which happened regular.

dowlingm · 12-05-2012 2:31pm

The trial train Dublin-Cork non-stop. It wasn't just a 22K getting mileage in? Be a bit funny that they were trialling anything speed wise before Lisduff was finished this weekend no?

bk - maybe if IE wasn't building politically motivated lines in the West and relaying Nenagh branch maybe they could have got around to it sooner.

dowlingm · 12-05-2012 3:57pm

kieran4009 - many thanks. Any whispers of (in my opinion a badly wanted) 0600 Heuston-Cork?

EDIT: removed so not to hijack thread.

Sea Filly · 13-05-2012 3:42pm

devnull wrote: »

Someone actually got off or on in Portlaoise? I've never seen that happen before as it's hardly a great location for the stop.

Two or three people got off. It stopped at some place called Midway. But, like I said, a good few passengers didn't seem to know it wasn't a stopping service so the driver seemed sympathetic to that.

double jeopardy · 13-05-2012 9:45pm

Strong rumour has it that GoBus has been seeking the assistance of numerous well established large coach operators in a bid to launch an additional Dublin/Cork service.Its been heard that even its rival on the Galway/Dublin corridor Citylink has been offered the opertunity.It would appear now that the route is fairly well serviced and that it would be foolhardy to think oterwise and id say First Group would view any additional services competing against them as a bit of entertainment.Its obvious now as nobody has started it by now.I travelled down from Dublin last week on late pm service.Non stop was non stop and to be fair they know how to operate a proper shop.Long may it last.:)

foggy_lad · 13-05-2012 9:48pm

Sea Filly wrote: »

Two or three people got off. It stopped at some place called Midway. But, like I said, a good few passengers didn't seem to know it wasn't a stopping service so the driver seemed sympathetic to that.

They need to announce that it is an express service and anyone needing the bus to stop to use a toilet will be left behind at that point, why was there no announcement at the start of the journey that it is now a non-stop service?

BenShermin · 14-05-2012 12:23am

double jeopardy wrote: »

Long may it last.:)

Will it last though? Aircoach have saturated the Dublin to Cork express bus market just like Ryanair done to the flight market a few years ago (and we all know what happened there).

If Gobus don't start the route there's no express bus competition and Aircoach can be as ruthless as they like with their timetable and cut lesser used services. I hope I'm wrong but in seeing their recent attitude to their stopping services I wouldn't hold my breath.

bk · 14-05-2012 3:36am

No reason why GoBus can't start. As people here keep mentioning, Aircoach have done zero advertising so far.

All it would take is for GoBus to come along, with buses with toilets and do some pr and marketing and they could quickly overtake Aircoach.

Don't forget Aircoach aren't really their competition. The rich pickings are the Cork to Dublin Bus Eireann customers who haven't heard about this new express service yet and Irish Rail customers who are paying 4 times more.

With some proper advertising there is no reason why there can't be enough customers to take from BE and IR and for both GoBus and Aircoach to flourish together.

After all GoBus is well use to competition with a much more aggressive operator in the form of Citylink on their Galway route.

Of course maybe I'm wrong, maybe they won't start the service, which would mean another company like Citylink or Dublin Coach could take up the license. A little competition would be good and would keep everyone honest.

mydiscworld · 14-05-2012 11:23am

Will this speed limit change in Lisduff knock much off IR's time to Cork though?

A non stop train to Cork would be interesting. Think you could only justify a morning one and 5/6pm rush hour on a Friday

kieran4003 · 14-05-2012 11:40am

mydiscworld wrote: »

Will this speed limit change in Lisduff knock much off IR's time to Cork though?

A non stop train to Cork would be interesting. Think you could only justify a morning one and 5/6pm rush hour on a Friday

That on its own will only save a few minutes. However, there were a number of pinch points with very low speed limits and these have all been upgraded. The upgrade has taken too long, but it has been done without government support and It is finally starting to come together. It will be 100 mph from Dublin - Limerick junction with two exceptions in between, Curragh - 85mph and Portarlington - 80mph. These both have tight curves running throught them. Portarlington was rebuilt and realinged, the previous speed was only 30mph. There are plans to straighten the line through the Curragh, but that would be expensive and require a railway order so that will not be done in the short term. There are a lot or new rails waiting to be laid, there are a string of restrictions owing to works and engineers have to sign off on more speed increases.

I think it is unlikely there will be a non stop service, the best they could could do would probaly be a train with one stop and a journey time of about 2:10. Nevertheless, there are big changes ahead.

mydiscworld · 14-05-2012 1:22pm

kieran4003 wrote: »

That on its own will only save a few minutes. However, there were a number of pinch points with very low speed limits and these have all been upgraded. The upgrade has taken too long, but it has been done without government support and It is finally starting to come together. It will be 100 mph from Dublin - Limerick junction with two exceptions in between, Curragh - 85mph and Portarlington - 80mph. These both have tight curves running throught them. Portarlington was rebuilt and realinged, the previous speed was only 30mph. There are plans to straighten the line through the Curragh, but that would be expensive and require a railway order so that will not be done in the short term. There are a lot or new rails waiting to be laid, there are a string of restrictions owing to works and engineers have to sign off on more speed increases.

I think it is unlikely there will be a non stop service, the best they could could do would probaly be a train with one stop and a journey time of about 2:10. Nevertheless, there are big changes ahead.

Interesting times ahead so. I'd be happy with 2hrs 30 as standard, stopping at Thurles, Limerick Junction and Mallow

SandyfordGuy · 16-05-2012 3:32pm

It's good that we're discussing the overall transport between Dublin to Cork, because obviously it is loosely related to the topic in question, but at the same time it has become obvious looking back at this thread that some posters seem to have a conflict of interest they need to declare, I can see a couple of posters who didn't really join such thread until news of New Bus Eireann vehicles and improvements to Irish Rail services and every post seems to relate to that, rather than the actual topic of the thread. Looking back through their posting history it seems that they only post about CIE in some shape or form and every post always has to mention such companies. It is unfortunate to see such shilling on boards.ie but it is hardly surprising.

With regards to the stopping of the intermediate services, there is no way in hell eight services a day are going to be viable alongside the express services. There just simply isn't the demand. On average in the whole running of the Aicoach Cork route you'd have a max 15 passengers to or from the Towns. A bus can't sustain itself with such numbers. The only reason services worked before were because of the combined yields between passengers going end to end and those on shorter distance. An Express service being launched will always mean a passenger shift from the other services and will always mean that the timetable wouldn't be so viable because simply there is less demand. We've seen other operators cut commuter services back after launching express operations and there is nothing surprising there.

Sure the express services are not carrying a large number of passengers there, but there is potential to carry more as after all they are going between the two biggest cities in the state, I don't think there is much room to develop the intercity services and with the price of fuel they're never going to give the kind of returns pre-express service launches. If GoBus or Bus Eireann launch express services it will further dilute the number of passengers on the stopping services, as even more end to end passengers switch to direct services as more people become aware of them. There does seem to be a lot of people in Cork who seem to be upset about the cutting back of the intermediate services, but I would ask how many of these actually use the bus? Very little and certainly not enough to make seven services a day on Aircoach go stopping in each direction when you take into account all the pax which have switched to the direct service.

I understand from what I have read elsewhere that GoBus may be launching later as they have had their deadline extended. I wouldn't rule Aircoach out just yet of making the route work, they appear to be listening to feedback and apparently are going to be making some improvements which will hopefully address some of the concerns that have been raised, and perhaps market a little bit more.

devnull · 16-05-2012 3:56pm

There was a piece in the Cork Evening Echo this evening pretty much complaining about the fact that the intermediate service have been stopped, whilst it may be negative, I guess it is a little bit of publicity.

It basically consists of a brief mention on the front page that the route is now faster but misses town's out, but the article inside is quite negative with the headline "North Cork Town's bypassed as bus firm cut's services" and goes on to say that services have been drastically cut and a brief mention that the express services have been increased.

However I would say the person who wrote the mention on the front page was different to that of the article itself, as the tone of the headlines are totally different from each other. I guess all publicity may be good publicity though.

bk · 16-05-2012 5:36pm

Sigh, just goes to show the lack of basic pr and marketing at Aircoach. I really hope they improve this.

When this service first launched, it should have been front page news on the Echo, "breakthrough, new fast, cheap service between Cork to Dublin"

And again when they increased the service it should have been "direct non stop service to Dublin doubled".

It really isn't that hard, you just have to hire the right PR company with the right PR contacts with journalists to get the story out.

Follow up with a cheap but effective gorilla marketing campaign targeting the Irish Rail and Bus Eireann station in Cork with some billboards and students handing out leaflets. Really wouldn't cost much.

traveller2 · 16-05-2012 6:41pm

Looking at the Cork/Dublin route, I’ve doing it quite a bit by train and I note the €10 fares have stopped. When did the promotion officially finish? It appears that €20 is the new rate each way on the train. Student fares appear to be €30 for the next week or two, who knows then.
Going forward how likely that the rail fare will be €20 euro each way? Is this promotional too?
Which leads me onto Aircoach, service looks, very, very attractive €22 is great value from/to great city centre locations, coupled with LUAS/taxis needed for Heuston due to its out of town location, is this what most commuters who do this route each week will be going for?
I figure a small enough car would cost 80 return between petrol and tolls?

devnull · 16-05-2012 7:12pm

bk wrote: »

Sigh, just goes to show the lack of basic pr and marketing at Aircoach. I really hope they improve this.

When this service first launched, it should have been front page news on the Echo, "breakthrough, new fast, cheap service between Cork to Dublin"

And again when they increased the service it should have been "direct non stop service to Dublin doubled".

It really isn't that hard, you just have to hire the right PR company with the right PR contacts with journalists to get the story out.

Follow up with a cheap but effective gorilla marketing campaign targeting the Irish Rail and Bus Eireann station in Cork with some billboards and students handing out leaflets. Really wouldn't cost much.

There is a guy on twitter who is trying to stir this up further and trying to inform various press outlets about it.

http://twitter.com/#!/stevenrafleming

Aircoach need to react and fast before this gets covered everywhere else a positive development with the direct services will get turned into a negative.

SandyfordGuy · 16-05-2012 8:58pm

I read elsewhere that Bus Eireann are now leaflet dropping for their existing Dublin to Cork service around Cork today, I would love to know what their unique selling point on such leaflet was, as there is no benefit of taking such service for anyone other than those going between the Town's.

As for the article then of course it was nowhere near a balanced piece and that is why Aircoach really need to work on marketing and PR. The changes benefit many more people than they actually effect in a negative way, as very little people would be using the services between town's, no more than 10 a service in peak from my estimation and lucky to have five off-peak, whilst the number of people who benefit will be by far more.

I've had a look at the twitter account in question and it seems purely the guy involved is trying to stir up as much disgust as possible about the changes and it seems obvious he either has a conflict of interest or some kind of issue with Aircoach apart from the service changes. The comments about the fact that he believes that they are being government funded yet are still cutting back on services is either someone who has been very badly misinformed, or is setting out to mislead people. If he has a conflict of interest then that is very serious in my book.

KCAccidental · 16-05-2012 10:49pm

devnull wrote: »

There is a guy on twitter who is trying to stir this up further and trying to inform various press outlets about it.

http://twitter.com/#!/stevenrafleming

Aircoach need to react and fast before this gets covered everywhere else a positive development with the direct services will get turned into a negative.

I can't understand his frustration at all. BÉ serve both towns frequently in both directions. By the looks of it he's just throwing the toys out of the pram because he wants PT to work around his schedule of getting to college rather than the other way around.

surely the express service benefits far more people than 10-15 people in intermediate towns.

devnull · 17-05-2012 12:09am

I don't understand his frustrations either because like KCAccidental said he has other options to get to/from the other towns and I can understand people being annoyed at it and tweeting once but he seems to be tweeting all day and all night constantly the same lines over and over again and trying to get the press involved.

I see he has just tweeted more a short while ago, again same message over and over again, I don't know what he is expecting to achieve, but I don't think it's a normal reaction so it's no surprise people are suspicious of his motives because he appears to be a little too caught up in it for a bog standard customer who after all has alternatives.

It reminds me of the typical anti Aircoach stuff we had from the likes of dub_commuter and DalkeyResident in the past.

Sponge Bob · 17-05-2012 12:33am

On Galway-Dublin Citylink run more express than stopping coaches. Between them they run about 30 services a day each way.

Bus Eireann run around 15 services each way, some semi express/limited stop but the majority stop a lot.

Gobus runs 15 services a day express.

So thats 60 buses a day each way of which c 35 are express or limited stop.

Cork, which is so far unused to taking the bus, is a tad larger than Galway.

parsi · 17-05-2012 8:38am

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

I've had a look at the twitter account in question and it seems purely the guy involved is trying to stir up as much disgust as possible about the changes and it seems obvious he either has a conflict of interest or some kind of issue with Aircoach apart from the service changes. The comments about the fact that he believes that they are being government funded yet are still cutting back on services is either someone who has been very badly misinformed, or is setting out to mislead people. If he has a conflict of interest then that is very serious in my book.

He is a student. Why do you think he has a conflict of interest ? From what I can see his interest is quite clear - he wants stopping services.

bk · 17-05-2012 8:59am

Actually the break down is quiet interesting:

Cork to Dublin

Aircoach Express 17
Aircoach Stopping 3
Bus Eireann Stopping 6

Total Express 17
Total Stopping 9

Total 26

Galway to Dublin

GoBus Express 18 *
City Link Express 18 *
City Link Stopping 13
Bus Eireann Stopping 15

Total Express 36
Total Stopping 28

Total 64

Wow, 64 services a day versus 26, even after the Aircoach launch. Just goes to show how badly undeserved Cork was.

Looks like there should be plenty of room for GoBus here, even with Aircoach.
Also looks like there could be space for increased BE or Aircoach stopping services going forward.

* These include extra services on Friday and Sunday, GoBus are 16 and CityLink 15 every other day.

LXFlyer · 17-05-2012 9:02am

I think it goes to prove that you cannot please everyone with changes such as this, and that there are definitely two markets - Dublin/Cork, and the intermediate towns service.

He's understandably frustrated with his service (combined Bus Eireann/Aircoach) being effectively halved - I don't see any issue with someone complaining about that? Whether he'll get anywhere is another thing.

I think some people are reading far too much into this.

Tragedy · 17-05-2012 9:12am

lxflyer wrote: »

I think it goes to prove that you cannot please everyone with changes such as this, and that there are definitely two markets - Dublin/Cork, and the intermediate towns service.

He's understandably frustrated with his service (combined Bus Eireann/Aircoach) being effectively halved - I don't see any issue with someone complaining about that? Whether he'll get anywhere is another thing.

I think some people are reading far too much into this.

There's a difference between criticizing and ranting. Considering his complete lack of knowledge about Aircoach and the fact it's a private company, I don't think one can call his comments 'criticism' as that implies some sort of ability to intelligently judge Aircoachs service.

He's ranting and raving at the bit because a private company decided it was uneconomic to service his area with a bus route at the level he desires. So, he wants a private company to provide a loss making service purely to suit his own needs and desires.

That's not complaining.

Aircoach Dublin-Cork express

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