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Can my job ask me to come in 10 mins early

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    #32
    Dublinstiofán
    Registered Users Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭Dublinstiofán


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EY7lYRneHc


    I dont think this even warrants a post about it for god sake.

    Tell em if your required to go in 10 minutes early your also leaving ten minutes early!


    Oh and harden the **** up Sidney


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    #33
    star.chaser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 740 ✭✭✭star.chaser


    Yes and you can also ask your job for a €25,000 christmas bonus.


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    #34
    Scambuster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Scambuster


    OP, no they can't.

    It's a bit tricky but I would keep on coming in at 9. Anytime this is queried just come up with some excuse until they get the message.

    Ignore these sad jobsworths that think they are going straight to the top. The reality is they devalue the rest of our work and are laughed at by employers for their weakness.


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    #35
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Scambuster wrote: »
    OP, no they can't....

    according to what?


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    #36
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,672 ✭✭✭whippet


    encyclopedia wrote: »
    You are weakening your bargaining power as an employee by doing extra hours for free. Why would any employer pay you more for a job when you are willing to work for less which is exactly what you are doing now. It is also weaken the bargaining power of your colleagues. I can understand that times are tougher now for employers but loyalty of employers in my experience is to make money, this is precisely why they are in business. When the "Good times" come back employers will not suddenly want to give you an extra share of the profits. Saying that I don’t know what relationship you have with your employer and I hope for your sake that I will be proved wrong. The point about football practice is irrelevant as you are not paid for that, it’s a voluntary past-time.
    .

    you must subscribe to the Joe Higgin's school of employee / employer relationships.

    Not every employer is a scrooge. I am working for my employer for just over 10 years and I have given above and beyond what is in my contract and on the other hand I have recieved above and beyond what is in my contract.

    That is probably why I have managed to get promoted regularly over the years ......

    I fully intend to be an employer in a couple of years and I will looking to recruit and retain employees who are flexible, loyal and capable and while they will have to work hard to stay employed by me I will equally have to work hard to ensure that the best available will want to work for me.

    If you want to spend your 40 odd years of working life running in for the bell at 9am and running back out at half five on the button and bitching about 'the man' .. get used to bitterness of it.


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    #37
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    I think you are missing the point.

    The employer didn't put this in place. As far as we know. Its perhaps a new manager stamping their authority without just cause. Probably.

    While its great you have a good employer, theres a good many out there, who aren't.


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    #38
    newbie2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,477 ✭✭✭newbie2


    Sidney77 wrote: »
    My job is asking me to come in everyday 10 mins earlier than my shift but are telling me that I will not be paid for this time. Can they do this? My guess is no.

    Yes they can ask you to come in 10 minutes early - but you don't have to do it.

    It also depends on whether you're paid a wage or a salary. And the T&C's of your contract. No-one should have to work more than they're paid/contracted to IMO. If they do, it's normally because of bad planning or a slow/incompentant worker.

    LOL at all the droolers saying you're lucky to have a job. Bunch of whingers. Also LOL at everyone who works "5/10 hours a week extra for no extra pay". Feckin' great employees you all are - I'd love to have you working for me. I'd have you working 20 hours extra if i could and so would every manager there is. Part of a manager's job is to get the most prductivity out of the workforce for the least amount of cost.

    If the manager wants you to do 10 minutes a day this month, what's stopping her asking for 15 minutes next month, or 30 minutes the month after?


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    #39
    encyclopedia
    Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭encyclopedia


    whippet wrote: »
    you must subscribe to the Joe Higgin's school of employee / employer relationships.

    Not every employer is a scrooge. I am working for my employer for just over 10 years and I have given above and beyond what is in my contract and on the other hand I have recieved above and beyond what is in my contract.

    That is probably why I have managed to get promoted regularly over the years ......

    I fully intend to be an employer in a couple of years and I will looking to recruit and retain employees who are flexible, loyal and capable and while they will have to work hard to stay employed by me I will equally have to work hard to ensure that the best available will want to work for me.

    If you want to spend your 40 odd years of working life running in for the bell at 9am and running back out at half five on the button and bitching about 'the man' .. get used to bitterness of it.

    You are clearly in a position with your employer that a lot of other people are not. You seem to know them personally which makes it easier to build up a trust. In most scenarios such as multinational companies, employees are taking orders from other employees in the form of management. The management are likely to have targets that they are required to achieve from head office and if they can get you to work for free helping them to achieve these targets they are likely to abuse that, after all they are looking to (like yourself) move up the ladder in the process. If they do get a promotion due to achieving targets which is ultimately down to staff giving free hours, it is likely that this promotion would either involve moving department or area. Free hours that the staff gave would then be worthless even from a promotional point of view as that manager no longer represents them. I have come across scenarios like this so employers to me can be "scrooges" as you put it. I have come across managers who would do absolutely everything within in their power to get that promotion even if it means making other people’s lives more difficult. These people did not care about anyone but themselves including the company. I am not being bitter I am simply seeing the world for exactly what it is.

    The OPs position seems to be different to yours so it’s unfair for you to judge the situation without knowing the facts, maybe they do not want or are not in a position to get a promotion like you are.

    To the OP, why is there no union, are they refusing to allow ye? Is it a multinational company, if not maybe you could get a representative to talk to the owners or higher management. I understand that it is not about the 10 minutes and more to do with the principle of it. If you do this where do her demands stop?


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    #40
    Scambuster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Scambuster


    Any lick arse that is going to work for free to get one over me and other colleages, devaluing our efforts, will find their work sabotaged and hindered at every turn.


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    #41
    Rented Mule
    Registered Users Posts: 5,153 ✭✭✭Rented Mule


    Scambuster wrote: »
    Any lick arse that is going to work for free to get one over me and other colleages, devaluing our efforts, will find their work sabotaged and hindered at every turn.


    .....and you wonder why companies are fleeing Ireland.

    I don't recommend anyone 'work for free', but I do think that employees that are paid for an eight hour day, should work an eight hour day.

    If people don't like the idea, then perhaps they should work for themselves and see what the real world is like.


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    #42
    Corruptedmorals
    Registered Users Posts: 4,194 ✭✭✭Corruptedmorals


    If it means what everyone has said, being ready to go AT 8am and not walking in the door then- then what's the problem? In my job a few staff come in 15 minutes early, generally customer service staff to count safes and have the floats ready. They are paid for this and the end of their shift is changed accordingly so it's the same as everyone else's shift pay-wise. If you mean it's something like that but the end of your shift would be the same so you wouldn't be paid for the extra 10 minutes, I can see how that might be slightly annoying- but it's only 10 minutes. They can ask you all they want, they can't force you.


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    #43
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,672 ✭✭✭whippet


    Scambuster wrote: »
    Any lick arse that is going to work for free to get one over me and other colleages, devaluing our efforts, will find their work sabotaged and hindered at every turn.

    yeah ... and while these lick arses are bettering themselves and reaping the rewards you'll still be dancing around the barrel fire with your mates wondering who will get chopped first at the next round of redundancies.

    I recently had to make someone redundant, I had a choice of three staff who did the same job. The guy who was eventually let go was the lad who arrived bang on 9am ... put the kettle on, popped the bread in to the toaster, wandered to his desk to flute about with his fantasy football team while having breakfast and eventually got stuck in to things about half nine.

    he was shocked to be the chosen one .. most other people were not.


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    #44
    eurokev
    Registered Users Posts: 964 ✭✭✭eurokev


    ridiculous. Be happy you have job. I cant stand people like you, extremely frustrating for hard workers to work with people who nit-pick at pathetic things. Be happy over the moon youre working. We all have to give a little extra in work. We are payed ridiculously in this country compared to others. Or else make a mountain out of it and have a the jobs shipped abroad to more grateful people. Pfff!!!!


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    #45
    eurokev
    Registered Users Posts: 964 ✭✭✭eurokev


    whippet wrote: »
    you must subscribe to the Joe Higgin's school of employee / employer relationships.

    Not every employer is a scrooge. I am working for my employer for just over 10 years and I have given above and beyond what is in my contract and on the other hand I have recieved above and beyond what is in my contract.

    That is probably why I have managed to get promoted regularly over the years ......

    I fully intend to be an employer in a couple of years and I will looking to recruit and retain employees who are flexible, loyal and capable and while they will have to work hard to stay employed by me I will equally have to work hard to ensure that the best available will want to work for me.

    If you want to spend your 40 odd years of working life running in for the bell at 9am and running back out at half five on the button and bitching about 'the man' .. get used to bitterness of it.

    Here, Here. Great to see people like you doing well. Hope everything keeps going well for you, sounds like you deserve it


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    #46
    Scambuster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Scambuster


    eurokev wrote: »
    Here, Here. Great to see people like you doing well. Hope everything keeps going well for you, sounds like you deserve it
    GUys like this cause so much heartache. He might get promoted somewhere by working for free, taking a job that some able guy might have got who just didnt' want to work 50-60 hours a week away from his family. Thhis guy will be the sort of manager who will expect others to share his horrible ethic. I;ve seen it before. It causes great hardship in families and it is completely unessecary.


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    #47
    encyclopedia
    Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭encyclopedia


    Scambuster wrote: »
    GUys like this cause so much heartache. He might get promoted somewhere by working for free, taking a job that some able guy might have got who just didnt' want to work 50-60 hours a week away from his family. Thhis guy will be the sort of manager who will expect others to share his horrible ethic. I;ve seen it before. It causes great hardship in families and it is completely unessecary.

    I'm with you on this, there are some really terrible people out there that will do anything to get one over on the next person just for a promotion. If the only way of getting promotion is to screw over everyone else then I would rather not work for that company. Life is too short to have such low opinions of other people and to treat them so poorly for personal financial gain. I didn't reply or rise to eurokev though cos I just assumed it was someone trolling


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    #48
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    Scambuster wrote: »
    Any lick arse that is going to work for free to get one over me and other colleages, devaluing our efforts, will find their work sabotaged and hindered at every turn.

    Thats a pretty sickening attitude you have. Employees like you will be first in the firing line for redundencies if they're due.

    I wouldn't be bothered at the extra 10 mins, others would, it depends on your work ethic and if you get job satisfaction from your role.

    I think we get overpaid in this country for very little productivity - the amount of slacking I see everyday- not just in my employers but everywhere in public (with the exception of nurses and junior doctors) would lead me to believe this.


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    #49
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,586 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    OP, has anyone asked the manager why you are being asked to arrive 10 minutes early? Seems to me like your first starting point. You won't get fired for asking!

    Without knowing what and where you work ita difficult to ascertain the relevance of the request. Perhaps you have other perks in top of your salary or bonuses that take stock of effort during the month etc

    10 minutes a day is half days work a month.

    It tends to be give and take with many companies. They may make non contractual requests on one hand but offer non contractual flexibility/bonuses/perks elsewhere

    You need to consider this before doing anything drastic

    That's being said, pulling people up for 'being late' when they arrive 5 mins early for their shift is unacceptable

    This crap of "you're lucky to have a job" should be dropped. It's the lamest counter argument to work issues I've heard.


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    #50
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    It's a difficult one to call actually...

    On the one hand, a bit of flexibility is a very valuable asset for an employee to have. That doesn't mean being a doormat - it should always occur within a culture of give and take between the employer and employee. Employees that stick rigidly to rule books and quote union rules etc. all the time can be very hard work to employ and manage.

    On the other hand, if there genuinely hadn't been any problem with lateness before, and its just a case of a new manager being a bully, then that shouldn't just be accepted either. If that is the case, it will do more damage than good in the long term, as it will just affect staff attitude negatively.


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    #51
    Mister men
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭Mister men


    Sidney77 wrote: »
    My job is asking me to come in everyday 10 mins earlier than my shift but are telling me that I will not be paid for this time. Can they do this? My guess is no.
    Tell then to do one. If they want you in at 10 minutes to 9 then tell them to draw you up a new contract with extra pay or to forget about it. DON'T let your employer take advantage of you.


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    #52
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Mister men wrote: »
    Tell then to do one. If they want you in at 10 minutes to 9 then tell them to draw you up a new contract with extra pay or to forget about it. DON'T let your employer take advantage of you.


    Thats the right attitude:eek:


    We tend to come in 30 mins early do our work and leave at the normal time, or even work late in the evenings to, if there is work to get done you do it. We never get over time!


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    #53
    Mister men
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭Mister men


    average_runner wrote: »
    Thats the right attitude:eek:


    We tend to come in 30 mins early do our work and leave at the normal time, or even work late in the evenings to, if there is work to get done you do it. We never get over time!
    So you do 2 and a half hours OT a week without pay? Fair fu cks to ya but it will be a cold day in hell before you get me to work for free.


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    #54
    Scambuster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Scambuster


    In my job in the civl service the first hour overtime is free. Combined with the huge taxes on any additional salary I just refuse to do any overtime, not that there is much going.

    The thoughts of being pressured into doing unpaid overtime by some corporate monkey is laughable. You can chose to have that in your life if you like but it's not for me.


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    #55
    Osgoodisgood
    Registered Users Posts: 869 ✭✭✭Osgoodisgood


    Can this thread be password protected based on IP? I'm fairly sure anyone outside of Ireland who may have been contemplating investment here is going to find the content of this thread quite enlightening.


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    #56
    btard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭btard


    whippet wrote: »
    man .... I can't really comprehend this.

    Your employer obviously has a problem with people arriving bang on 9am and hanging around getting jackets on etc ..... otherwise he wouldn't have to ask people to come in.

    For the last number couple of years I have been starting at least an hour early every day, staying on after normal hours a couple of days a week .. and not recieved a single cent for doing it. What I have gotten is the respect of my employer who knows who has the best interests of the company at heart and when we get through this rough patch ..it will be remembered!!!

    get in to work a few minutes earlier and be greatful to have a job in this day and age.

    even for footie training we were always expected to be on the training pitch 10 minutes before the start to ensure that at half seven everyone is ready to start at the same time !!!

    You have a rude awakening coming to you.


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    #57
    dumb_parade
    Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭dumb_parade


    faceman wrote: »
    OP, has anyone asked the manager why you are being asked to arrive 10 minutes early? Seems to me like your first starting point. You won't get fired for asking!

    Without knowing what and where you work ita difficult to ascertain the relevance of the request. Perhaps you have other perks in top of your salary or bonuses that take stock of effort during the month etc

    10 minutes a day is half days work a month.

    It tends to be give and take with many companies. They may make non contractual requests on one hand but offer non contractual flexibility/bonuses/perks elsewhere

    You need to consider this before doing anything drastic

    That's being said, pulling people up for 'being late' when they arrive 5 mins early for their shift is unacceptable

    This crap of "you're lucky to have a job" should be dropped. It's the lamest counter argument to work issues I've heard.

    +1

    Ask why they want you in early. Is it to get ready for your shift or to start work early.

    If they expect this of you will they want 10 minutes off your lunch break next. Give them and inch...

    Your new manager is trying to make a name for herself. This can be dangerous, so thread carefully. You dont want to be made an exampe of, even though im not sure what can be legally done here.

    In general unpaid overtime can be beneficial on a short term basis, but after that it becomes a sort of exploitation. What started out as bad planning, becomes 'good' planning, because the employer thinks they can get this labour for free.


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    #58
    mickoneill30
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭mickoneill30


    Mister men wrote: »
    So you do 2 and a half hours OT a week without pay? Fair fu cks to ya but it will be a cold day in hell before you get me to work for free.

    In the company I'm in (and pretty much any company I've been in) working a bit extra here and there is the norm. The other side of the story is that I'm in a job that I'm not worried about losing and it has usually been remembered come bonus time or payrise time and I've normally had bosses that reciprocate and who are easier on us with the odd half day for family or home stuff.


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    #59
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    There no problem working a bit extra if you get it back in someway. Even it just makes you more content, thats reason enough.

    However many places will expect extra time, yet not give you anything back for it, and are not one bit appreciative about it.

    Someone who comes in introducing rules and penalties, where none are needed , is a bad sign IMO.


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