Can my job ask me to come in 10 mins early

Sidney77 · 25-10-2010 10:51pm #1

My job is asking me to come in everyday 10 mins earlier than my shift but are telling me that I will not be paid for this time. Can they do this? My guess is no.

gerrycollins · 25-10-2010 11:05pm

if they want you at your desk at 9am then you should be ready to go at 9am not walking in the door or taking your jacket off etc at 9am

I think the 10 mins early is just so that you can be ready to go on time etc.

The_Morrigan · 25-10-2010 11:07pm

gerrycollins wrote: »

if they want you at your desk at 9am then you should be ready to go at 9am not walking in the door or taking your jacket off etc at 9am

I think the 10 mins early is just so that you can be ready to go on time etc.

+1

mikemac · 25-10-2010 11:09pm

Been in this situation when working on a factory floor

Your shift started at 8am and that meant on the floor, all your safety gear on and ready to go at 8am.
Not on site in the canteen or in the locker room putting on your gear at 8am.

I'd say your boss isn't asking you to do mandatory unpaid work. They just want you there at the start time and all set to start

jimmycrackcorm · 25-10-2010 11:14pm

You should be telling them you will be 100% ready for when your shift is starting but if they want you to work any earlier or later than your contract specifies then they wil have to pay you for it.

dan_d · 26-10-2010 8:54am

They want you to be on the floor, ready to go at whatever your starting time is.

Not walking in the door to spend the next 10 mins getting coffee, settling down.

So yes.

Ozziej · 26-10-2010 9:04am

I work for a non-unionised multinational Pharmaceutical site. People on shift come in early to do handover meeting with previous shift and stay a little later to faciliate the next shift handover. We haven't had any pay cuts and future is bright. One of reasons they chose to increase investment here and close down other unionised sites in Ireland is our flexible agile attitude.

Suck it up its only 10 minutes. You are lucky to have a job. That kind of attitude persuades investment to leave these shores.

santiago · 26-10-2010 9:07am

Sidney77 wrote: »

My job is asking me to come in everyday 10 mins earlier than my shift but are telling me that I will not be paid for this time. .

You should do that without being asked!

danbohan · 26-10-2010 9:11am

Sidney77 wrote: »

My job is asking me to come in everyday 10 mins earlier than my shift but are telling me that I will not be paid for this time. Can they do this? My guess is no.

that's an infringement of your basic human rights , call the UN and resign. we cant have people with your obvious commitment to your job been treated like that !

ScouseMouse · 26-10-2010 9:14am

Ozziej wrote: »

I work for a non-unionised multinational Pharmaceutical site. People on shift come in early to do handover meeting with previous shift and stay a little later to faciliate the next shift handover. We haven't had any pay cuts and future is bright. One of reasons they chose to increase investment here and close down other unionised sites in Ireland is our flexible agile attitude.

Suck it up its only 10 minutes. You are lucky to have a job. That kind of attitude persuades investment to leave these shores.

What a good attitude. Any chance you could go and work in South Dublin County Council ?

You could work wonders.

Denerick · 26-10-2010 12:03pm

I don't see what is controversial about being ready to start on the hour, which means being 100% punctual and requires you being a little early. Otherwise it would be unfair on those finishing.

Gman1 · 26-10-2010 2:42pm

danbohan wrote: »

that's an infringement of your basic human rights , call the UN and resign. we cant have people with your obvious commitment to your job been treated like that !

Its not an infringement of your basic human rights. If they said you were not allowed to go to the toilet, then it would be infringing your basic human rights.

Also to the OP do not resign, you should be there 10 minutes early. Most jobs are the same, and expect you to be a few minutes early.

Denerick · 26-10-2010 2:44pm

Gman1 wrote: »

Its not an infringement of your basic human rights. If they said you were not allowed to go to the toilet, then it would be infringing your basic human rights.

Also to the OP do not resign, you should be there 10 minutes early. Most jobs are the same, and expect you to be a few minutes early.

Is there something wrong with your irony meter?

dan_d · 26-10-2010 2:44pm

Gman1 wrote: »

Its not an infringement of your basic human rights. If they said you were not allowed to go to the toilet, then it would be infringing your basic human rights.

Also to the OP do not resign, you should be there 10 minutes early. Most jobs are the same, and expect you to be a few minutes early.

Might be sarcasm....

BostonB · 26-10-2010 2:46pm

Sidney77 wrote: »

My job is asking me to come in everyday 10 mins earlier than my shift but are telling me that I will not be paid for this time. Can they do this? My guess is no.

Why would you not want to do this. Its only 10 mins. Or 50 mins a week.

Gman1 · 26-10-2010 2:47pm

Denerick wrote: »

Is there something wrong with your irony meter?

i forgot that its very easy to tell when someone is being sarcastic over the internet.

I thought it was another boards moron giving stupid advice. boards.ie is full of them.

Sidney77 · 26-10-2010 8:53pm

ok ill be more specific and see if anyone has anything intelligent or worthwhile to say,

firstly when we arrive in we take our jackets off, put our work jackets on and go to where we begin work, this takes one minute max, what do we do for the other 9 minutes

secondly, people are arrivng at 8.55 and are asked for an explanation for being late.

this thread isnt about whether we would want to arrive early or that its only ten minutes, anyone who read the question will see that the question is "CAN they demand this?"

as for the people who mentioned our attitute to the job i can tell you that my colleagues and i are always there when the shift begins, but its not often that we would arrive ten mins early,

thanks to those of you with good intelligent answers,

whippet · 26-10-2010 9:44pm

man .... I can't really comprehend this.

Your employer obviously has a problem with people arriving bang on 9am and hanging around getting jackets on etc ..... otherwise he wouldn't have to ask people to come in.

For the last number couple of years I have been starting at least an hour early every day, staying on after normal hours a couple of days a week .. and not recieved a single cent for doing it. What I have gotten is the respect of my employer who knows who has the best interests of the company at heart and when we get through this rough patch ..it will be remembered!!!

get in to work a few minutes earlier and be greatful to have a job in this day and age.

even for footie training we were always expected to be on the training pitch 10 minutes before the start to ensure that at half seven everyone is ready to start at the same time !!!

peasant · 26-10-2010 10:21pm

whippet wrote: »

What I have gotten is the respect of my employer who knows who has the best interests of the company at heart and when we get through this rough patch ..it will be remembered!!!

Will it now?

Not all employers are decent either.

In the case of the OP ...10 mins really is no case to get all unionised and confrontational ...it just makes sense.

But working hours and hours for free and goodwill in the future is "optimistic" to put it kindly.

As an employee all you have to sell is your workforce and your time ...sell it wisely

BostonB · 26-10-2010 10:55pm

If you don't want a discussion on something, don't ask on a forum open to the entire world to comment. Thats just common sense.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/employment-rights-and-conditions/hours-of-work/working_week

Being asked to be early for shift, isn't that usual in my experience. If its a new thing, its most likely because theres a problem with people being late.

Sidney77 · 27-10-2010 12:02am

Never said I didnt want a discussion, thats why i posted. I just wanted good intelligent answers and not stupid ones from keyboard warriors.

Thanks for posting that link.

The manager who made this rule is very new and even if there was a problem with timekeeping (which there rarely is,) she wouldnt know about it. Most people are in on time and do their jobs well.

But telling people they are late when they turn up 5 mins before a shift begins is not right in my opinion

BostonB · 27-10-2010 1:09am

Ask a bad question, get a bad answer. All the information your giving now, you should have given at the start. Because you were vague, you got vague answers. What you're describing now, is an entirely different context.

IMO, unless theres something in your contract that says otherwise, or you have a union to fight it, then yes they can do this, if its applied equally to all, with enough correct notice. AFAIK. Assuming thats all ok, I would to see who has actually approved this. Is the manager acting on their own, do they have the authority to do that, or is it something thats come from much higher. something you can check with HR etc.

encyclopedia · 27-10-2010 9:03pm

whippet wrote: »

man .... I can't really comprehend this.

Your employer obviously has a problem with people arriving bang on 9am and hanging around getting jackets on etc ..... otherwise he wouldn't have to ask people to come in.

For the last number couple of years I have been starting at least an hour early every day, staying on after normal hours a couple of days a week .. and not recieved a single cent for doing it. What I have gotten is the respect of my employer who knows who has the best interests of the company at heart and when we get through this rough patch ..it will be remembered!!!

get in to work a few minutes earlier and be greatful to have a job in this day and age.

even for footie training we were always expected to be on the training pitch 10 minutes before the start to ensure that at half seven everyone is ready to start at the same time !!!

You are weakening your bargaining power as an employee by doing extra hours for free. Why would any employer pay you more for a job when you are willing to work for less which is exactly what you are doing now. It is also weaken the bargaining power of your colleagues. I can understand that times are tougher now for employers but loyalty of employers in my experience is to make money, this is precisely why they are in business. When the "Good times" come back employers will not suddenly want to give you an extra share of the profits. Saying that I don’t know what relationship you have with your employer and I hope for your sake that I will be proved wrong. The point about football practice is irrelevant as you are not paid for that, it’s a voluntary past-time.

For the OP, are you in a union, if so which union is it and can you contact them about it. The advice about contacting HR about company policy is good. The fact that there is a new manager would suggest that she is behind it and possibly not following company policy. It certainly seems like an unfair situation to me especially the fact that punctuality is not a problem. Are you permanent as this is important as to what rights you have? It could be also that the new manager is just setting her mark and as time goes by she will ease off this policy. Don’t sign a contract change if they approach you about it without consulting the union (if you are in one) as this would suggest to the employer that you agree with this policy.

Sidney77 · 28-10-2010 12:28am

Thanks encyclopedia

No union. We do have contracts but they are signed when employment begins so nothing about that is in the current one.

In answer to your other question Boston she made this decision herself (despite that she is often late, but thats a different matter). We ourselves are discussing if this is a rule she can enforce, both legally and with regard to company policy and take disciplinary action for people arriving 5 minutes early.

gandalf · 28-10-2010 1:17pm

If you were being asked to come in half an hour earlier I would query that but 10 minutes is nothing really. Is it really putting you out that much? If it is then explain that in a logical fashion to your manager.

In my last few jobs I would be in the office an hour earlier than I needed to be because I was avoiding traffic. I worked that hour even-though I wasn't paid for it as well. Then again it was Sales based and part of my salary was commission based.

If it is really a problem for you I would query why this new policy is in place in a non confrontational manner. I would also not watch what the manager does, you have no idea what is in her contract. She may be working from home as well.

thirtythirty · 28-10-2010 1:26pm

Sidney77 wrote: »

My job is asking me to come in everyday 10 mins earlier than my shift but are telling me that I will not be paid for this time. Can they do this? My guess is no.

That's pathetic.
Every week I put in between 5 and 10 hours extra unpaid, occassionally more. It's called doing your job and being an asset to the organisation.

If you like to look at it as a direct payment/productivity ratio though, despite the fact that your hourly wage doesn't change according to your outputs, I assume then that you are at full working capacity from beginning to end of your shift, with zero ass scratching time?

edit: your original post which i've quoted reads of bad attitude, hence my response. I've now read your followup posts, but I still don't understand the problem. It's 10 minutes! 5 more than the time you'd be arriving anyway, plus it allows for unforseen delays on your journey to work, reducing the amount of time and people that start late throughout the year.

BostonB · 28-10-2010 1:28pm

I think the OP has now clarified that is a bit more to it than simply starting 10 mins early. We have to assume that the OP is telling us the truth stating there isn't a lateness problem. Accepting that, it seems that this a new manager marking their territory, to establish themselves, regardless if its required or not. As such the OP has to find out if the powers that be are happy that this take priority over upsetting the existing arrangements and staff. If they are theres nothing you can do IMO.

Strikes me as one of those people that have zero tolerance for time keeping if its in the company favor, but if its the other way around like asking people to stay late, or put in extra hours,m they can't see why staff have a problem with it. Which is simply unfair.

BostonB · 28-10-2010 1:32pm

spottyelephant wrote: »

That's pathetic.
Every week I put in between 5 and 10 hours extra unpaid, occassionally more. It's called doing your job and being an asset to the organisation.

If you like to look at it as a direct payment/productivity ratio though, despite the fact that your hourly wage doesn't change according to your outputs, I assume then that you are at full working capacity from beginning to end of your shift, with zero ass scratching time?

I don't agree. Very rarely have I found that doing extra hours for free, (as in not getting the time back in lieu) is worth it. Its almost always taken advantage of, and all it gets you is more unpaid work. In my experience, its usually down to poor planning, that requires this extra time in the first place.

thirtythirty · 28-10-2010 1:41pm

BostonB wrote: »

I don't agree. Very rarely have I found that doing extra hours for free, (as in not getting the time back in lieu) is worth it. Its almost always taken advantage of, and all it gets you is more unpaid work. In my experience, its usually down to poor planning, that requires this extra time in the first place.

I think it depends on your industry. Not everything can be fitted nicely inside 9-5 5 days a week. Some people might get taken advantage of, sure, but in those cases if they're not happy to do it, there's 50 people behind them who are.

My view is you get paid to do a job, not time.

edit: also OP, with such a tiny issue, I would think that you'll do more damage getting your back up about it than anything else. Firstly the manager is likely to be "wtf is the fuss about", legitimately in my view, and will lose respect for you. But more importantly, you weaken argument or bargaining positions for the future due to management's view of "sure they whine at everything", plus if you just accept this, you can pull it out of the back pocket down the line if for instance management turns around and says "from now on be in at half 8".

inforfun · 28-10-2010 1:50pm

gandalf wrote: »

If you were being asked to come in half an hour earlier I would query that but 10 minutes is nothing really. Is it really putting you out that much? If it is then explain that in a logical fashion to your manager.

I dont know. If you are depending on public transport, coming in 10 mins early could mean leaving home 30 minutes earlier.
If i would always be on time when the work starts i definately would not be prepared to get out of my bed 30 minutes earlier, just to please a new manager who wants to make a name for her or himself.

BostonB · 28-10-2010 3:00pm

spottyelephant wrote: »

I think it depends on your industry. Not everything can be fitted nicely inside 9-5 5 days a week. Some people might get taken advantage of, sure, but in those cases if they're not happy to do it, there's 50 people behind them who are.

My view is you get paid to do a job, not time....

Time is not important. Theres a motto for efficiency.

Its rare in my experience to see people working extra hours for free on a well run project. once off to get over a hump/crisis maybe. But not when it becomes a working culture. I've certainly left places where I felt this was unreasonable, and had stats to prove it was unsustainable and wasn't achieving anything. They ignored all advice and went bust about 12 months later.

Can my job ask me to come in 10 mins early

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