Sinn Fein- Never forget

gaffer91 · 29-05-2012 1:16pm #1

On the internet recently(I think it was something to do with Egypt) I was reminded of the killing of Detective Garda Jerry McCabe by the IRA.

The 16th anniversary of his brutal slaying at the hands of IRA members occurs next week. As we see the seemingly unending rise in support for Sinn Fein, I think it is important to gently remind people, particularly young people who are seriously considering voting/giving a transfer to SF, that they are not at all as far removed from the yobs who terrorised people on both sides of the border (and both sides of the Irish Sea) as they'd have you believe. It is also important to remember that it was Martin Ferris who picked up the murderers (because this is what they are; they only received the manslaughter verdict because of witness intimidation as anyone familiar with the case knows) upon their unfairly premature release from prison in 2009. While SF would like to sweep these despicable actions under the rug, it is important that they are always kept fresh in people's minds.

When deciding whether or not to vote for SF, if you bear in mind their voodoo economics (it's amazing how far they think the pension reserve fund will stretch isn't it?), the bank robberies, the bombings, the murders of people like Robert McCartney (all of this not even 20 years ago), their questionable expenses and then still decide to vote for them, then I fear for you, and for this country.

While this thread serves to remind people of SF's disgraceful past, the question I want to ask is- when you bear all this in mind how does anyone vote for SF, never mind 1 in 5 voters?

Einhard · 29-05-2012 1:41pm

Because the electorate have every short memories. Look at FF's rise in the recent opinion poll.

Also: be prepared for inane comments like "don't FF and FG have their origins"...

Dirk Gently · 29-05-2012 1:47pm

how many years needs to pass before a violent past is not only accepted but glorified. a generation, 2 perhaps? I'm not a SF supporter but I'm just glad they're engaging in politics these days, just like FF and FG and the officials in Labour are now doing. Thankfully the people in the north are more pragmatic than some of us in the south seem to be. Whats good enough up there doesn't seem to be down here though.

Never forget what happens in a political vacumn.

golfball37 · 29-05-2012 1:55pm

FF were in power less than 10 years after the senseless Altnavaigh massacre of innocents. What eventually became FG were in power the time of the Ballyseedy war crime.

People have forgotten this so they will eventualy forget about the actions of the PIRA too. Its called the cycle of life.

Most of the current SF front bench weren't even adults let alone SF the time of the McCabe killing afaik and as for Robert McCartney I believe it was well publicised the IRA offered to shoot the men who carried out that act?

To be honest I'm more worried about my ever dwindling income and the fact this country is going to the walls, neither of which have anything to do with events of some lunatic group 20 years ago, rather 3 very popular political parties who were meant to be serving this state instead of feathering their own nests.

I believe in the ideals espoused in the 1916 proclamation [even if I don't agree with the actions of the participants] the real shame is that SF are now the only party who one can honestly say are committed to these ideals anymore. The rise of SF is a damning indictment of FF/FG & Labour and how they have failed this state. I wish there was an alternative but until then, long may the rise in SF support continue I say.

Chucky the tree · 29-05-2012 2:27pm

golfball37 wrote: »

Most of the current SF front bench weren't even adults let alone SF the time of the McCabe killing afaik and as for Robert McCartney I believe it was well publicised the IRA offered to shoot the men who carried out that act?
.

They were all members and in some cases TDs when their colleague greeted the killers at the doors of the prison on their release and shook hands with great delight.

gaffer91 · 29-05-2012 2:29pm

Einhard wrote: »

Also: be prepared for inane comments like "don't FF and FG have their origins"...

Didn't take long for you to be proved right. Big difference between 1920's Ireland (when the IRA had popular support) and whatever way you want to describe the bastardised version detested by most of the population that went around murdering Gardai. I mean, an elected TD picking up cop killers in the 21st century, FFS.

golfball37 wrote: »

People have forgotten this so they will eventualy forget about the actions of the PIRA too. Its called the cycle of life.

I've no problem with that. However this stuff wasn't even 20 years ago. Northern bank robbery and sickening slaying of Robert McCartney was less than 10. Ferris picking up the murderers wasn't even 5. Bit early to be drawing the line on their actions I think. And even if some people forget it doesn't make the actions any less despicable or unforgiveable.

golfball37 wrote: »

Most of the current SF front bench weren't even adults let alone SF the time of the McCabe killing afaik and as for Robert McCartney I believe it was well publicised the IRA offered to shoot the men who carried out that act?

How many sitting SF TD's weren't adults in 1996 I'd like to know? The darlings, Pearse Doherty and Mary Lou, were certainly old enough. I'd expect a 10 year old to know that killing Gardai is wrong, never mind a legal adult.

As for "offering to shoot the men"- well isn't that just fantastic. How about actually helping the authorities rather than summarily executing people in some kangeroo court?

golfball37 wrote: »

To be honest I'm more worried about my ever dwindling income and the fact this country is going to the walls,

I'd be even more worried about SF if I were you then because I don't think they're going to help you out there.

golfball37 wrote: »

I believe in the ideals espoused in the 1916 proclamation [even if I don't agree with the actions of the participants] the real shame is that SF are now the only party who one can honestly say are committed to these ideals anymore. The rise of SF is a damning indictment of FF/FG & Labour and how they have failed this state. I wish there was an alternative but until then, long may the rise in SF support continue I say.

How do you figure that may I ask?

I agree that the fact that SF are gathering support reflects badly on the 3 main parties, certainly. It equally reflects badly on the Irish electorate though.

golfball37 wrote: »

I wish there was an alternative but until then, long may the rise in SF support continue I say.

SF are not an alternative. They offer no coherent policies and are a typical hot air, pie in the sky populist opposition party. A laughing stock would probably be a better description.

whitelines · 29-05-2012 3:20pm

The Republic is still a relatively young country, formed by violent Nationalists. It's easy to see how those still beating the same Nationalist drum will appeal to a section of the electorate, especially the young, the poor and the emotionally disturbed. In any case, every western nation has it's far right fringe, in Ireland it's called Sinn Fein. People turn to these type of parties in hard times.

dabestman1 · 29-05-2012 3:28pm

whitelines wrote: »

The Republic is still a relatively young country, formed by violent Nationalists. It's easy to see how those still beating the same Nationalist drum will appeal to a section of the electorate, especially the young, the poor and the emotionally disturbed. In any case, every western nation has it's far right fringe, in Ireland it's called Sinn Fein. People turn to these type of parties in hard times.

Never thought of SF as a far right party, ah well whatever it takes to have a go at SF.
PS: How many have a go at SF Threads are the mods going to allow?

invinciblePRSTV · 29-05-2012 3:47pm

The passage of time will show the shrill reactions in this thread to be nonsense. EVERY political party in DE has baggage in terms of support for armed political groupings, some recent in the memory, some not so recent. End result is still the same, the Irish electorate doesn't care once support for political violence is ended.

swimming in a sea · 29-05-2012 3:53pm

Its up to the government to provide a better country were people can prosper through their hard work.
There are unseemly feelings lurking in many people, but the pride that working for yourself and providing for your family means you'll be a worthy member of society, you'll most probably pass these values on to your children.

But if your caught in a society where your not even able to work hard and can see no future.
Then xenophobia, racism, sloth, welfare dependence, thievery, anti social behaviour of all sorts come to the fore.
This is where Sinn Fein come in, they feed on this negativity and it only makes them stronger, they are like the negative slime in Ghostbusters II. They never give an answer, the blame is always on the rich(who for the most part are just very hard workers who got the breaks).

So FG/Lab better up their game, before this country is fully covered in this putrid slime.

BuzzFish · 29-05-2012 4:00pm

If the shinners every came into power I'd emigrate. For all the mistakes this country and its governments have made to now, the shame and embarrassment of the world media reporting on Sinn Féin coming to power would be 1,000,000 times worse. We'd be the laughing stock of the world. Also the country would simply fall to pieces and the economy would collapse (even further) under their control.

worst
nightmare
ever

dlofnep · 29-05-2012 4:00pm

Sinn Féin push for the peace process, and towards politics - and we're told to never forget. Like it or lump it - Sinn Féin is a legitimate political party in Ireland, and the main opposition to the Government. They have many capable young politicians who are far too young to have experienced the height of the troubles, for it to matter.

Here's a fact - Jerry McCabe wasn't killed by Sinn Féin. Here's another fact - during the height of the troubles, only a very small portion of overlap existed between the PIRA and Sinn Féin. Most activists were engaged in political demonstrations. The others took up arms, because they felt it was necessary against an oppressive British state.

Does that mean that the history of Sinn Féin is squeaky clean? Absolutely not. But you'll be looking a long time to find any of the major parties without a squeaky clean history.

So you either accept that Sinn Féin is engaged in the political framework of this island, for the betterment of it. Or you can highlight some issues with the history of the party. Which is fine btw - But don't ask them to move on from the troubles, if you're unwilling to do the same.

swimming in a sea · 29-05-2012 4:07pm

dlofnep wrote: »

Here's a fact - Jerry McCabe wasn't killed by Sinn Féin.

Oh ya these boys were not in Sinn Fein, seem to remember Sinn Fein providing them with a chauffeur though, they must have seen them as potentially ideal members.

Fenian Army · 29-05-2012 4:10pm

Collecting them from jail etc was payback I guess for the prisoners asking to be left out of any settlement thus condemning themselves to a longer time in jail. Without them making that statement the peace process may not have gone ahead as many wouldn't have accepted "leaving people behind" and others wouldn't have accepted letting the men go free.

Einhard · 29-05-2012 4:10pm

dlofnep wrote: »

So you either accept that Sinn Féin is engaged in the political framework of this island, for the betterment of it. Or you can highlight some issues with the history of the party. Which is fine btw - But don't ask them to move on from the troubles, if you're unwilling to do the same.

I think there's a bit of a difference between asking SF to move on from the Troubles (ie stop engaging in, and supporting, a murderous IRA campaign) and asking skeptical boards members to do so (ie stop bringing up inconvenient truths that SF would like forgotten), isn't there? To analogise between the two is ludicrous.

Furthermore, SF haven't moved on from the Troubles. They were at the forfront in demanding an enquiry into Bloody Sunday, and have many times demanded such investigations into security force collusion in the Dublin/Monaghan bombings, and the murders of Rosemary Neslon, Pat Finucane and others. I support those demands, but it's nevertheless laughable that Sinn Fein wish to "move on". My ar*se they do. They want people to move on from their bloody, murderous history is all.

charlemont · 29-05-2012 4:11pm

Men willing to fight for their communities..

Men willing to risk their freedom for their communities..

These sound like the very ideal candidates to vote for !!!!

Einhard · 29-05-2012 4:12pm

charlemont wrote: »

Men willing to fight for their communities..

Men willing to risk their freedom for their communities..

These sound like the very ideal candidates to vote for !!!!

Men willing to murder the opposition...

Fenian Army · 29-05-2012 4:15pm

I wonder what the reaction would be if I started a thread along the lines of "Murderous Brits - never forget!" I'd be told to drop the "800 years" nonsense and "move on".

charlemont · 29-05-2012 4:17pm

Einhard wrote: »

Men willing to murder the opposition...

I'd call it fight fire with fire.

Strangely enough with the carry-on here in recent years of the bankers/FF etc I'm amazed particularly with our history that none of them have been assassinated or bombed.

3ndahalfof6 · 29-05-2012 4:22pm

Its a pity we don't have the name of all the people (young and old) who have committed suicide and the dates of their deaths since the country has gone tits up, due to the pressures they were put under and the bleak future in front of them,

but its OK the outgoing government never had a hand in any of their deaths.

Einhard · 29-05-2012 4:23pm

Fenian Army wrote: »

I wonder what the reaction would be if I started a thread along the lines of "Murderous Brits - never forget!" I'd be told to drop the "800 years" nonsense and "move on".

If the Brits were murdering Irish citizens in the past 15 years and welcoming the murderers of gardai from prison, I'd be thanking your that thread. That's not exactly the case though , is it?

Einhard · 29-05-2012 4:24pm

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

but its OK the outgoing government never had a hand in any of their deaths.

Is this thread trying to set a record for daft analogies?

Extinction · 29-05-2012 4:26pm

Einhard wrote: »

Men willing to murder the opposition...

Men also willing to murder a Detective Garda while robbing a bank, men willing to murder fellow citizens. Men willing to murder for their own narrow minded bigotory. Freedom fighters my hole, they should all be in prison and none of them in the Dail.

latenia · 29-05-2012 4:27pm

Forget? There are still senior Sinn Féin members actively involved in criminality. After all the fuss about donations to Bertie Ahern etc. perhaps Gerry Adams could explain to the public how, as an "unemployed barman" he could buy a holiday home in Donegal for several 100K? As bad as corruption is in the country, I don't think Fianna Fáil ever got money from the proceeds of extortion or diesel smuggling. Anyone who votes for these scumbags should be ashamed of themselves.

However, it has been learned that those involved in the massive counterfeiting operation include a senior IRA man convicted of murdering a British soldier in the North and who was a close associate of Gerry Adams, and three known and current members of Sinn Fein.

http://sluggerotoole.com/2010/06/13/counterfeiting-operation-posed-potential-threat-to-euro/

fasttalkerchat · 29-05-2012 4:29pm

Sinn Fein did more good than bad. They are doing all the right things as regards Economics. They are much more transparent and honest than FG and FF.

Fenian Army · 29-05-2012 4:30pm

Einhard wrote: »

If the Brits were murdering Irish citizens in the past 15 years and welcoming the murderers of gardai from prison, I'd be thanking your that thread. That's not exactly the case though , is it?

They have, recently enough in Ireland murdered people, and they continue to protect soldiers who committed crimes in Ireland as well as withholding files etc.

You were saying?

gaffer91 · 29-05-2012 4:31pm

dlofnep wrote: »

Sinn Féin push for the peace process, and towards politics - and we're told to never forget. Like it or lump it - Sinn Féin is a legitimate political party in Ireland, and the main opposition to the Government. They have many capable young politicians who are far too young to have experienced the height of the troubles, for it to matter.

Big difference between moving on and forgetting.

People need to stop trotting out this "too young" line. As stated previously, most of their TD's were either already members or old enough to vote when murders such as Jerry McCabe or the Canary Wharf bombing etc occurred.

And what about all their TD's who were old enough to remember the height of the troubles? And indeed played an active part? Do we just ignore them?

dlofnep wrote: »

Here's a fact - Jerry McCabe wasn't killed by Sinn Féin. Here's another fact - during the height of the troubles, only a very small portion of overlap existed between the PIRA and Sinn Féin. Most activists were engaged in political demonstrations. The others took up arms, because they felt it was necessary against an oppressive British state.

Oh, come on. He was killed by Sinn Fein's 'military' wing. Two sides of the same coin. What about Ferris picking him up also?

I've noticed SF supporters always try to muddy the waters around IRA atrocities. They generally would not initially condemn them but when pushed on it would realise they don't have a leg to stand on and say something like "well, of COURSE I condemn it but let's not forget... [insert irrelevant red herring]"

dlofnep wrote: »

Does that mean that the history of Sinn Féin is squeaky clean? Absolutely not. But you'll be looking a long time to find any of the major parties without a squeaky clean history.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that SF might have a slightly shadier recent history than FF or FG (bad as they were).

dlofnep wrote: »

So you either accept that Sinn Féin is engaged in the political framework of this island, for the betterment of it. Or you can highlight some issues with the history of the party. Which is fine btw - But don't ask them to move on from the troubles, if you're unwilling to do the same.

I'm willing to move on. I've no problem with SF for instance looking for enquiries into Bloody Sunday or British army collusion with loyalists (where there certainly seems to have been a lot of funny business going on). Or even convicted Murderers being let out because of the GFA-while that might stick in the throat a bit more if it's the price that must be paid then so be it. But asking people to entirely ignore SF's history of violence and criminality in the hope that people will forget is another thing.

Fenian Army wrote: »

Collecting them from jail etc was payback I guess for the prisoners asking to be left out of any settlement thus condemning themselves to a longer time in jail. Without them making that statement the peace process may not have gone ahead as many wouldn't have accepted "leaving people behind" and others wouldn't have accepted letting the men go free.

Ah right he should have said so. That completely justifies it. :rolleyes:

fasttalkerchat · 29-05-2012 4:31pm

Einhard wrote: »

If the Brits were murdering Irish citizens in the past 15 years and welcoming the murderers of gardai from prison, I'd be thanking your that thread. That's not exactly the case though , is it?

15 years? Notice how you cut the time period for relevance of murders :rolleyes:

The Nazis killed more people than the IRA but I'm not using that as a reason to vote no to austerity treaty am I?

Fenian Army · 29-05-2012 4:32pm

latenia wrote: »

Forget? There are still senior Sinn Féin members actively involved in criminality. After all the fuss about donations to Bertie Ahern etc. perhaps Gerry Adams could explain to the public how, as an "unemployed barman" he could buy a holiday home in Donegal for several 100K? As bad as corruption is in the country, I don't think Fianna Fáil ever got money from the proceeds of extortion or diesel smuggling. Anyone who votes for these scumbags should be ashamed of themselves.

http://sluggerotoole.com/2010/06/13/counterfeiting-operation-posed-potential-threat-to-euro/

Anything to back this up?

If you want to go down the counterfeiting road why not berate Labour over saving their pal Seán "Superdollar" Garland?

Seth Brundle · 29-05-2012 4:34pm

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

but its OK the outgoing government never had a hand in any of their deaths.

Outgoing?

dabestman1 · 29-05-2012 4:34pm

latenia wrote: »

Forget? There are still senior Sinn Féin members actively involved in criminality. After all the fuss about donations to Bertie Ahern etc. perhaps Gerry Adams could explain to the public how, as an "unemployed barman" he could buy a holiday home in Donegal for several 100K? As bad as corruption is in the country, I don't think Fianna Fáil ever got money from the proceeds of extortion or diesel smuggling. Anyone who votes for these scumbags should be ashamed of themselves.

http://sluggerotoole.com/2010/06/13/counterfeiting-operation-posed-potential-threat-to-euro/

hich
As you may not know, Gerry Adams has published several books over the years which easily explains the house in Donegal and he also worked for several years as a barman. Knowledge is power.

Sinn Fein- Never forget

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