STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

Wearb · 17-03-2017 9:00pm

Forge83 wrote: »

Yes.
However....
1.To achieve an acceptable energy rating the house may require extra renewable energy sources, high level insulation, triple glazed windows etc. They are just examples.
2.Each room with a stove will require a wall vent. This contradicts the use of a heat recovery system but it is what the building regulations state.
3.Each stove will have to have an external air pipe for its own independent air supply.

I am a stove person but I think anybody building a new house would be mad to put in two stoves. In a new build house a stove is really only a comfort feature,it should not really be needed as a form of heat.

Thanks for that. Air to water underfloor heating. Some sort of double glazing that gives close to triple glaze u values.

One stove is more or less a visual feature. The other is just in case other heating system goes down. Both dry stoves.

Forge83 · 17-03-2017 9:12pm

There's loads of options these days. A BER accessor would be able to give you a more accurate idea of what's needed.
On the stove side of it you can also go down the gas insert, electric insert and even pellet stove. Lots of good looking stuff of high quality on the market now.

henke · 20-03-2017 1:04pm

Just wondering has anyone got opinions on the heat output of a Cara + insert stove. I seen some posters saying the non boiler version gives good heat but I am wondering about this one. I want to fit it into an existing fireplace. My living room is 15 foot 3" by 11 foot 10". Some people are advising against an insert saying they don't give out the same heat but I am unsure.
Also, if anyone has any other suggestions for a solution that doesn't come too far out from the wall I'd be interested to hear. That is the reason I was looking at an insert was for space. I don't think I need a large stove though.
Thanks.

Forge83 · 20-03-2017 1:44pm

I thought the Cara plus was an insert boiler stove?
The Cara room heater insert are a very good stove. Mixed reviews on the boiler version however.
Your room size really only requires a 5kw but no real harm in going up an extra 1kw to the Cara.
People who advised they give less heat are incorrect. Whether it is insert or freestanding the stated kilowatt is the heat given to the room if fitted correctly.
Loads of options of insert stoves around that size but if you like the Cara you should have no problems.

henke · 20-03-2017 3:31pm

Forge83 wrote: »

I thought the Cara plus was an insert boiler stove?
The Cara room heater insert are a very good stove. Mixed reviews on the boiler version however.
Your room size really only requires a 5kw but no real harm in going up an extra 1kw to the Cara.
People who advised they give less heat are incorrect. Whether it is insert or freestanding the stated kilowatt is the heat given to the room if fitted correctly.
Loads of options of insert stoves around that size but if you like the Cara you should have no problems.

Yes the Cara Plus is a boiler stove and it is a boiler one that I am after and I am just concerned how this one would heat the room. Looking online it says it gives a maximum of 3.6kw to the room. The Cara insert without a boiler gives 6.5kw to the room. I am just concerned how the Cara plus would perform and it sounds like your saying this one has got mixed reviews?
If anyone has any other suggestions for a boiler insert stove or a not too large boiler stove that doesn't take up much space I'd be interested to hear?

Mickeroo · 20-03-2017 3:36pm

henke wrote: »

Yes the Cara Plus is a boiler stove and it is a boiler one that I am after and I am just concerned how this one would heat the room. Looking online it says it gives a maximum of 3.6kw to the room. The Cara insert without a boiler gives 6.5kw to the room. I am just concerned how the Cara plus would perform and it sounds like your saying this one has got mixed reviews?
If anyone has any other suggestions for a boiler insert stove or a not too large boiler stove that doesn't take up much space I'd be interested to hear?

I've been researching insert boiler stoves a fair bit lately and I'm angling towards the Stratford EB16i myself (or possibly the EB12i depending on what the plumber thinks I need).

The other ones I've been considering are the Henley Achill and the Charnwood Slx 45i.

I've no first hand experience of any of them but they might be good options based on what I've seen people say on this thread and elsewhere.

Forge83 · 20-03-2017 3:45pm

The Cara Inset boiler wouldn't be one I would recommend as I think there are many better Inset boiler stoves.
However all Inset boiler stoves give low heat to the room.
Listed below in order of what I believe are the best 3.

1. Stratford EB12 Inset boiler
2. Hamlet Solution 12 Inset boiler
3. Henley Achill 17 Inset boiler

Others on the market include the Pierce Glas Inset boiler, Hamco Morgan Inset boiler, Alpha Inset boiler, Graphite Inset boiler, Boru Chieftan.
There are a few others from Heritage, Mulberry, Blacksmith and Heat Design but I wouldn't rate any of them.

dixiefly · 20-03-2017 4:24pm

Forge83 wrote: »

I thought the Cara plus was an insert boiler stove?
The Cara room heater insert are a very good stove. Mixed reviews on the boiler version however.
Your room size really only requires a 5kw but no real harm in going up an extra 1kw to the Cara.
People who advised they give less heat are incorrect. Whether it is insert or freestanding the stated kilowatt is the heat given to the room if fitted correctly.
Loads of options of insert stoves around that size but if you like the Cara you should have no problems.

Hi,

Some interesting points made here.
What insert stoves would you recommend that are approx 5kw?

Thanks

Forge83 · 20-03-2017 4:41pm

The 5/6kw Inset stove market has loads of great choice as it is the biggest category of stove in Ireland at present.
The biggest seller is one design of stove sold by several companies as it is a fantastic stove.They are all the same stove with a different door.
Henley Apollo/ Heritage Pollmore/ Mazona Portland/ Casttec Cougar/ Mazona Tucson/ Heritage Dunmore.
Others to consider would be the Heat Design Vitae, Henley Achill, Stanley Cara,Graphite 5 Inset.
There are many others but that is most of the best ones.

There are some great high end stoves too but I don't think they are worth the price in this category of stove.
Charnwood C Four
Di Lusso R4
Esse 301se

henke · 20-03-2017 5:16pm

The Stratford EB12 Inset boiler would give near 5kw output and also heat the water. Would this substantially heat the room better than the Cara plus? Thanks.

Forge83 · 20-03-2017 5:51pm

To be honest I don't think so. No insert boiler stove will give a lot of heat to the room no matter what they state. If there is a radiator in the room you should have enough heat regardless.

henke · 20-03-2017 7:10pm

Any recommendations on a boiler stove that might sit in the current fire place or on front of it that's not too large in space and would give off decent heat output.

Forge83 · 20-03-2017 7:22pm

The 2 neatest boiler stoves around the KW you need are the Charnwood Island 2 boiler and Stratford EB12 Freestanding.

henke · 20-03-2017 11:47pm

Forge83 wrote: »

The 2 neatest boiler stoves around the KW you need are the Charnwood Island 2 boiler and Stratford EB12 Freestanding.

Thanks. I will look into these stoves. I do have a radiator in the living room so an insert might still suffice.

Wearb · 28-03-2017 7:45pm

Wearb wrote: »

Thanks for that. Air to water underfloor heating. Some sort of double glazing that gives close to triple glaze u values.

One stove is more or less a visual feature. The other is just in case other heating system goes down. Both dry stoves.

They have now bought two stoves, a pedestal and corner one.

The builder is preparing to put in 8 or 9" flue liners. The stove flue is 6". Should the liners be changed to 6"?

Wearb · 29-03-2017 11:26pm

Wearb wrote: »

They have now bought two stoves, a pedestal and corner one.

The builder is preparing to put in 8 or 9" flue liners. The stove flue is 6". Should the liners be changed to 6"?

I will give this just one bump. It may not be an easy question to answer.

Forge83 · 30-03-2017 5:53pm

No black and white answer on this I am afraid.
If it was me I would have the builder install the 8" pot liner and then reline with a 6" stainless flexi flue liner.
This will allow changes to be made in years to come if desired.
If you want to try and decipher the Irish building regs in relation to stove installation and chimneys check this link-

http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad%2C37240%2Cen.pdf

Wearb · 30-03-2017 8:14pm

Forge83 wrote: »

No black and white answer on this I am afraid.
If it was me I would have the builder install the 8" pot liner and then reline with a 6" stainless flexi flue liner.
This will allow changes to be made in years to come if desired.
If you want to try and decipher the Irish building regs in relation to stove installation and chimneys check this link-

http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad%2C37240%2Cen.pdf

Thanks. Been speaking to my son and he said that was what the woman in that stove shop in carlow said that the builder/plumber would probably decide to do.
I won't interfere, but seeing as the house is almost passive, I would have gone for correct size clay liner from the start if it was my decision. As you say, it is not hard and fast.
Are there different quality liners? Do the last for a long time ?

Forge83 · 30-03-2017 8:51pm

There's two grades of liner, 316 is the basic and 904 is the higher grade.
Scheidel is probably recognised as one of the best but MI Flues are also highly regarded.Both offer 20/25 year warranties on the 904 grade.
Others include Oriel Flues and AI Flues.

Hermbob · 08-04-2017 11:22am

I'm bit of a novice when it comes stoves. Bought a new build A rated house recently (no fireplace!). We were hoping to fit a stove (through external wall rather than ceiling), the room is roughly 5m by 4m. From the little bit I've read we'd need one with external air supply and given the size (well insulated etc) I assume I'd need something with a low output, maybe 5kw? If all this sound right any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Duffy99 · 08-04-2017 3:00pm

I have bought an older cottage and it came with a stove no name on it and it just about heats the room ( 12x15) we have the hall off it that has no door (an arch). So we would like to put in a stove that would maybe help to heat the hall off the living room or at least take a chill off it. If we were to put in a larger size stove with a 7kw output would it heat up the hall. There is a rad in the hall run from our central heating but it would be nice if a stove cut down on us using central heating for the hall.

Forge83 · 08-04-2017 5:08pm

Duffy99 wrote: »

I have bought an older cottage and it came with a stove no name on it and it just about heats the room ( 12x15) we have the hall off it that has no door (an arch). So we would like to put in a stove that would maybe help to heat the hall off the living room or at least take a chill off it. If we were to put in a larger size stove with a 7kw output would it heat up the hall. There is a rad in the hall run from our central heating but it would be nice if a stove cut down on us using central heating for the hall.

How would you rate the insulation in the house? I personally would look at insulation before a bigger stove.
How old is the current stove? It may need a service to improve performance.
Also is the chimney clean and what type of fuel are you burning?
If you want to post a picture I may be able to tell you what make stove it is.
Upping the size of the stove would only sense if there is an issue with one of the above.

Forge83 · 08-04-2017 5:12pm

Hermbob wrote: »

I'm bit of a novice when it comes stoves. Bought a new build A rated house recently (no fireplace!). We were hoping to fit a stove (through external wall rather than ceiling), the room is roughly 5m by 4m. From the little bit I've read we'd need one with external air supply and given the size (well insulated etc) I assume I'd need something with a low output, maybe 5kw? If all this sound right any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Yes you will need an external air stove. However please be aware you will also have to put a permenatly open air vent in the wall of that room. This obviously then defeats the purpose of an A rated house.But that's your choice of course.

Duffy99 · 08-04-2017 5:43pm

I am burning stove coal and briquettes. I was in a house recently and the stove they have was giving a lot more heat out. The older part of the house was drylined before we bought it and in the extension we had the walls pumped with insulation. We have new pvc windows fitted a year ago, This stove was put in 14 years ago approx. and we had it re fitted a year ago by an expert and had the full job done on the chimney wit a new flexible flue and Vermiculite cost us almost €1100.

covey09 · 27-04-2017 2:29pm

whats the longest distance between a boiler stove and the hot water cyclinder latterly,
Thanks
Covey

HueyB · 08-05-2017 6:03pm

Hi,

I was hoping to get some advice. I'm a first time buyer who recently moved into a detached 3 bed circa 1980 and would like to fit a multi fuel stove in the existing fireplace which I am in the process of removing. There was a back boiler which has been removed at some point during the lifetime of the house. Have been looking at the Stanley Osion and similar (6kw output) but don't want to break the bank. It will only be used in the winter during the evenings so was hoping there may be reliable alternatives ?
Thanks

Glowing · 11-07-2017 10:33pm

Where's the best place in Dublin (South) to get a small 4-6kw inset stove (with external air supply)? Hoping not to pay any more than 500 or 600!

Many thanks

Forge83 · 11-07-2017 11:08pm

Glowing wrote: »

Where's the best place in Dublin (South) to get a small 4-6kw inset stove (with external air supply)? Hoping not to pay any more than 500 or 600!

Many thanks

I don't think you will get one with external air for anywhere near that price in Dublin I am afraid. All the 5/6kw Inset stoves with external air I can think of would be between €900-€1100. Heritage stoves do a free standing Dromore 5kw external air which I said reasonably priced around €500.
Try Stone and Stoves Rathcoole or BPM Supplies Kylemore road.

mrsWhippy · 12-07-2017 12:08am

Forge83 wrote: »

I don't think you will get one with external air for anywhere near that price in Dublin I am afraid. All the 5/6kw Inset stoves with external air I can think of would be between €900-€1100. Heritage stoves do a free standing Dromore 5kw external air which I said reasonably priced around €500.
Try Stone and Stoves Rathcoole or BPM Supplies Kylemore road.

Thanks a lot for that.

I actually saw that Dromore one online. Has it got a good reputation?

Are the freestanding ones generally cheaper than inset?

Forge83 · 12-07-2017 12:10am

mrsWhippy wrote: »

Thanks a lot for that.

I actually saw that Dromore one online. Has it got a good reputation?

Are the freestanding ones generally cheaper than inset?

Freestanding would normally be cheaper than Inset yes. Very few stoves with external air so they are normally up in price. The Dromore seems to be the exception but it is quite a small stove.

henke · 12-07-2017 9:01am

Has anyone any experience dealing with Gordons in Kilkerrin Galway? They seem to offer nationwide delivery for the stove I want much cheaper than anyone else around. Just wary of paying that price without actually going to see them etc.

mrsWhippy · 12-07-2017 9:29am

Is there any benefit at all to having an external air stove in a non-airtight extension? It will be extremely well insulated, large pumped cavity and 3g but won't have a MVHR, just standard trickle vents (I know, I know)

Thanks

corcadorcha · 12-07-2017 12:33pm

Hi,
We are about to sign contacts with builder on renovation and extension. Hope to get a BER rating of A2. We are putting in a MVHR unit and airtightness membrane, insulation etc.
We would like to put in an inset stove in the extension more for aesthetics than heat.
We are putting in a chimney and external air duct.
Anybody recommend an inset stove 5kw ish with external air with more contemporary look as will be built into wall.
We would also prefer not to have any vent in room as it defeats the purpose of airtightness/MVHR/insulation etc...
Any help appreciated..
Thanks

B-D-P-- · 12-07-2017 1:24pm

mrsWhippy wrote: »

Is there any benefit at all to having an external air stove in a non-airtight extension? It will be extremely well insulated, large pumped cavity and 3g but won't have a MVHR, just standard trickle vents (I know, I know)

Thanks

Of course, Your not using the air from the room, hence your not sucking in more air from outside.
Closed loop is always worth it!

Forge83 · 12-07-2017 1:24pm

mrsWhippy wrote: »

Is there any benefit at all to having an external air stove in a non-airtight extension? It will be extremely well insulated, large pumped cavity and 3g but won't have a MVHR, just standard trickle vents (I know, I know)

Thanks

Very small benefit of better air control.
That's about it really.

Forge83 · 12-07-2017 1:25pm

B-D-P-- wrote: »

Of course, Your not using the air from the room, hence your not sucking in more air from outside.
Closed loop is always worth it!

External air is not necessarily a closed loop if there are air vents in the room.
Room sealed is.
There is a difference between the two.

mrsWhippy · 12-07-2017 1:31pm

So are you saying that an external air stove is not necessarily room sealed?

Forge83 · 12-07-2017 1:40pm

corcadorcha wrote: »

Hi,
We are about to sign contacts with builder on renovation and extension. Hope to get a BER rating of A2. We are putting in a MVHR unit and airtightness membrane, insulation etc.
We would like to put in an inset stove in the extension more for aesthetics than heat.
We are putting in a chimney and external air duct.
Anybody recommend an inset stove 5kw ish with external air with more contemporary look as will be built into wall.
We would also prefer not to have any vent in room as it defeats the purpose of airtightness/MVHR/insulation etc...
Any help appreciated..
Thanks

There are a good few 5/6kw Inset stove options with external air.
Unfortunately building regulations state that a vent in the room is mandatory.
Yes I know it's contradictory

Heat Design Vitae 6kw(They also have a new wider version in the same kw just released)
Hota Varme 6kw
Henley Seville 400 6kw
ACR Tenbury 5kw
Boru 400i
Henley Athens 400 6kw
Stovax Riva 40
There are more but they would be the most popular.

corcadorcha · 12-07-2017 2:55pm

Forge83 wrote: »

corcadorcha wrote: »

Hi,
We are about to sign contacts with builder on renovation and extension. Hope to get a BER rating of A2. We are putting in a MVHR unit and airtightness membrane, insulation etc.
We would like to put in an inset stove in the extension more for aesthetics than heat.
We are putting in a chimney and external air duct.
Anybody recommend an inset stove 5kw ish with external air with more contemporary look as will be built into wall.
We would also prefer not to have any vent in room as it defeats the purpose of airtightness/MVHR/insulation etc...
Any help appreciated..
Thanks

There are a good few 5/6kw Inset stove options with external air.
Unfortunately building regulations state that a vent in the room is mandatory.
Yes I know it's contradictory
Heat Design Vitae 6kw(They also have a new wider version in the same kw just released)
Hota Varme 6kw
Henley Seville 400 6kw
ACR Tenbury 5kw
Boru 400i
Henley Athens 400 6kw
Stovax Riva 40
There are more but they would be the most popular.

Thanks Forge83,
Is there any way around the vent in room?
There is a lot of talk of room sealed stove? Or on passive certified stove. It does not make any sense to put in fire and dig big hole on wall..
Plenty of air through the MVHR and if stove has external air supply...

Thanks again

henke · 12-07-2017 3:18pm

henke wrote: »

Has anyone any experience dealing with....................................

Just bumping this.

MOD NOTE: Don't go bumping posts that are not even a day old.

Forge83 · 12-07-2017 4:30pm

corcadorcha wrote: »

Thanks Forge83,
Is there any way around the vent in room?
There is a lot of talk of room sealed stove? Or on passive certified stove. It does not make any sense to put in fire and dig big hole on wall..
Plenty of air through the MVHR and if stove has external air supply...

Thanks again

Technically I don't think there is a way around it. I think it's aimed more towards the safety aspect of removing possible carbon monoxide rather than ventilation for thestove.
I advise people to choose their BER accessor early and discuss it with them.
Sensible BER accessors may be more flexible with you.

Forge83 · 12-07-2017 4:34pm

mrsWhippy wrote: »

So are you saying that an external air stove is not necessarily room sealed?

Correct.
Just as an example. A Henley Yale 8kw has external air. It can be used in a new build Irish house and meet building regulations. It cannot be used in a passive certified house as it is not technically room sealed due to it having a riddle bar grate.
There are very few passive houses being built hence why most shops/Installers would not know the difference.
A lot of people building houses use the term passive but what they really mean is Irish building regs air tight. There is a massive difference.

rpmcs · 12-07-2017 9:35pm

Any solid fuel stove needs to open door to refuel so is never room sealed.
Unlike gas oil or pellet. These stoves remain closed at all times during operation.

For example if you go to refuel with a stove that had external air feed and the flow of air from outside is greater than the pressure In room, then the excess flow will be pushed into room.
So that is why a open vent is still required in building regs to the best of my knowledge.

mrsWhippy · 12-07-2017 11:55pm

rpmcs wrote: »

Any solid fuel stove needs to open door to refuel so is never room sealed.
Unlike gas oil or pellet. These stoves remain closed at all times during operation.

For example if you go to refuel with a stove that had external air feed and the flow of air from outside is greater than the pressure In room, then the excess flow will be pushed into room.
So that is why a open vent is still required in building regs to the best of my knowledge.

I really hope I'm taking this up wrong...

So I'm building a house this year. Aiming for airtight values <1 and mechanical ventilation (because really, putting drafty holes in the walls of my house doesn't make sense)

Provisional BER requires A2W HP and multi fuel stove to meet regs. OK fine.

Now are you saying because of this stove, I actually have to put a permanent wall vent in my sealed house???

But if I don't have the stove, I won't meet the renewable regs they are hoping to improve in the first place?

<frantically googling>

mrsWhippy · 13-07-2017 9:39am

Can anyone comment on this stove please?

http://henleystoves.com/sherwood-5kw-2/

Thanks

Forge83 · 13-07-2017 9:14pm

mrsWhippy wrote: »

Can anyone comment on this stove please?

http://henleystoves.com/sherwood-5kw-2/

Thanks

New stove model only released in the last month.
Too early to review really.

Mickeroo · 13-07-2017 9:30pm

Had a plumber in looking at the place today regards getting an inset boiler stove in. He said we probably don't need a flue liner....this doesn't sound right to me? Likely one of the Stratford Eco Boiler's we'll be getting.

Forge83 · 13-07-2017 10:17pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

Had a plumber in looking at the place today regards getting an inset boiler stove in. He said we probably don't need a flue liner....this doesn't sound right to me? Likely one of the Stratford Eco Boiler's we'll be getting.

I could be hung, drawn and quartered for saying this in a plumbing forum but here goes.
Not every plumber is qualified to fit a boiler stove! I will only advise a Hetas qualified installer for a room heater stove and likewise will only advise a Hetas qualified plumber to fit a boiler stove. I am sure there are lots of good plumbers who dont have Hetas certification but at least you know they have had training in boiler stove installation if they have the certification.
The only way to know for sure if your chimney needs a liner is a camera inspection. How does he know there isn't a crack in one of the pots?
I find most people now will spend the extra €300-€400 on a liner for simple safety peace of mind.

sarahn11 · 24-07-2017 9:14am

Hi Guys,

Im looking for some advice on a stove install/heating upgrade:

In the process of purchasing a 50s terraced house in Waterford City - have a small budget to upgrade heating before the winter, the rest of the upgrades to the house will happen early next year.

Initially i was thinking of getting a 12kw boiler stove (Stanley) installed & hooked up to the already existing gas central heating (boiler will need some work also i would imagine) these works will use up the majority of the budget.

Upon reading up, im now leaning towards spending the money on Attic insulation/External insulation/boiler upgrade and a smaller non boiler stove which we could upgrade next year when funds are more available. Currently there is a gas fire which will need to be removed & possibly work done to the fireplace to allow a stove to fit it.

Just wondering what the majority would do in my situation? is it better to get the boiler stove in first or install the smaller one along with the insulation & boiler upgrades? Long term we do want the boiler stove for the heating/hot water so installing the smaller stove is just for this winter really.
Also, does anyone have any recommendations for a company to do attic/external wall insulation/boiler upgrades in WAterford

Thanks :cool:

Shefwedfan · 24-07-2017 10:19am

sarahn11 wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Im looking for some advice on a stove install/heating upgrade:

In the process of purchasing a 50s terraced house in Waterford City - have a small budget to upgrade heating before the winter, the rest of the upgrades to the house will happen early next year.

Initially i was thinking of getting a 12kw boiler stove (Stanley) installed & hooked up to the already existing gas central heating (boiler will need some work also i would imagine) these works will use up the majority of the budget.

Upon reading up, im now leaning towards spending the money on Attic insulation/External insulation/boiler upgrade and a smaller non boiler stove which we could upgrade next year when funds are more available. Currently there is a gas fire which will need to be removed & possibly work done to the fireplace to allow a stove to fit it.

Just wondering what the majority would do in my situation? is it better to get the boiler stove in first or install the smaller one along with the insulation & boiler upgrades? Long term we do want the boiler stove for the heating/hot water so installing the smaller stove is just for this winter really.
Also, does anyone have any recommendations for a company to do attic/external wall insulation/boiler upgrades in WAterford

Thanks :cool:

This might be suited better to construction forum but depends on what mods want to do

I have done a couple of refurbs so have a little bit of experience. PM if you want to discuss or we can keep on thread

From the above are you planning on removing the gas boiler and replacing with Boiler stove? Is the current gas boiler on mains supply?

As the house was built in 50's have you checked if copper or gun barrel installed?

Do the walls have a cavity?

How are the windows?

Is the rooms big enough to look at insulated slabs?

How is the wiring? is it the older wire?

STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

Comments