The Sunday Game Thread

Yellowblackbird · 05-08-2014 9:10pm

JohnBoy26 it’s either a knock out competition or it’s not.
There are some cup/knock out tournaments where losers might play on for third place or something but the idea of being beaten and re-entering is I’m fairly sure unique to the GAA (and is bizzare and illogical) It was a money generator that demeaned the value of winning an All-Ireland.

I don’t subscribe to your cr<p about the championship being two tournaments.

harpsman · 05-08-2014 9:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Pointing out that the analysis was stupid is hardly "unwillingness to allow any criticism". No one is saying McHugh should be censored or anything, just that he made a remark that was patently silly. Indeed, you yourself criticise McHugh in labelling it "extreme" - is your rejection of his comments really any more valid than others?

But you see the problem is that people are calling for McHugh to be censored- read this thread for one example. Also poor Kevin Mc Stay nearly needed the smelling salts. If youd heard Conor Deegan and David Brady on Newstalk youd think that hed come out as a member of the Ku Klux Klan.

TV pundits are always making silly, nonsensical statements like this one-my reaction is Yawn, Who cares?

Id still rather listen to McHughs opinions than most of the other fellas-hes proven himself not just as a player but as a manager too, and hes likely to bring a bit more insight to a game than most-even if that was a particularly silly remark on sunday.

Anyway Ive nothing more to say on the issue.

JohnBoy26 · 05-08-2014 9:56pm

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

JohnBoy26 it’s either a knock out competition or it’s not.
There are some cup/knock out tournaments where losers might play on for third place or something but the idea of being beaten and re-entering is I’m fairly sure unique to the GAA (and is bizzare and illogical) It was a money generator that demeaned the value of winning an All-Ireland.

I don’t subscribe to your cr<p about the championship being two tournaments.

The only one spouting "cr<p" here is you. If you don't think that they are 2 different competitions then I suggest you look it up. Nothing really "illogical" or "bizzare" about the qualifiers either. It just gives more teams a chance in the all Ireland series is all, rather than just the winners of the provincial championships as was the case pre 2001.

The all Ireland series is a knockout competition, when your defeated your gone, there is no such a thing as " re-entering" in this competition. the qualifiers don't demean the "value" or make winning an all Ireland less important or less prestigious.

They may have lessened the importance of winning a provincial championship somewhat but not an All Ireland.

harpsman · 06-08-2014 11:45am

Ok I know I said I wasnt going to comment any more on "ponygate" just was listenin to 2nd Captains last night-were they reading my posts?:D

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/second-captains.

And Breheny in Indo

No need to berate McHugh for clumsy comment
Lighten up, folks. Martin McHugh, a solid citizen in a long career across all aspects of GAA life, is being portrayed as a charlatan for his description of Colm Cooper as 'a two-trick pony' while talking up the merits of James O'Donoghue on 'The Sunday Game'.
By McHugh's own admission, it was a clumsy choice of words, but, hey, there's no need to put him in stocks and pelt him with rotten eggs.
I doubt very much if 'Gooch' is overly concerned, so why such overwhelming outrage on his behalf?
It's no big deal, really.
In any event, the sceptic in me becomes even more suspicious when comments are made on TV, in particular, which are guaranteed to further energise the excitable world of social media.
After all, there's definitely no such thing as bad publicity in the TV game.
Even one-trick ponies know that.
Irish Independent

keane2097 · 06-08-2014 11:48am

Qualifiers obviously make it harder to win the All Ireland as in the past any big team that got caught at Provincial time would be gone for good, with the Qualifiers they can come back and ensure the last 8 is as competitive as possible.

Kerry would probably have won another two All Irelands in 05 and 08 but for the back door.

DoctaDee · 06-08-2014 12:13pm

keane2097 wrote: »

......Kerry would probably have won another two All Irelands in 05 and 08 but for the back door.

Eugh 2008 I had consigned that year to the recycle bin, that 1/4 final in the lashing rain *shudder* .. what was it George Hook said about giving a sucker an even break ?

wow sierra · 06-08-2014 9:54pm

I don't mind pundits making controversial comments by accident - what I don't like is the practice of doing it deliberately to garner publicity. And the personal nature of some of the criticism is not acceptable. The Wexford hurlers were really hurt by the comments when they were beaten in the Club championship and the whole Sean Kavanagh thing was a new low. These are amateur players with their parents and friends watching - you can criticise the play without being personal about the player.

Someone quoted the Independent comment that the Gooch wouldn't care - are ye sure about that?? Gooch is in the worst possible place now for a Sportstar - he's getting older and nearing the end of his career and he is longterm injured. A horrible place to be. And then he has to look at the contender lighting up the field and being told he's not as good and a "two trick pony".

James O'Donoghue is a joy to watch - the story of the weekend should be about him, and about the wonderful Armagh championship run after a disastrous league. But no - the media want the story to be all about themselves.

ProudDUB · 06-08-2014 10:25pm

wow sierra wrote: »

James O'Donoghue is a joy to watch - the story of the weekend should be about him, and about the wonderful Armagh championship run after a disastrous league. But no - the media want the story to be all about themselves.

No. Just one man is making it be all about themselves. Martin McHugh. It's not like Colm Cooper is the victim of a mass media conspiracy to denigrate him. The media in general are just reporting on all the ensuing kerfuffle. That is their job. And to be fair to the media at large, pretty much every single pundit/journalist/commentator I have read/heard/seen since, has said that McHugh is full of you know what.

sam34 · 07-08-2014 8:21am

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

Does anyone know what the two tricks are ?

Scoring and making scores, I'd say :pac:

RV · 07-08-2014 4:27pm

sam34 wrote: »

Scoring and making scores, I'd say :pac:

Two tricks - goals and points?

keeponhurling · 07-08-2014 10:11pm

RV wrote: »

Two tricks - goals and points?

Munsters and All-irelands

ciarriaithuaidh · 08-08-2014 12:01am

wow sierra wrote: »

I don't mind pundits making controversial comments by accident - what I don't like is the practice of doing it deliberately to garner publicity. And the personal nature of some of the criticism is not acceptable. The Wexford hurlers were really hurt by the comments when they were beaten in the Club championship and the whole Sean Kavanagh thing was a new low. These are amateur players with their parents and friends watching - you can criticise the play without being personal about the player.

Someone quoted the Independent comment that the Gooch wouldn't care - are ye sure about that?? Gooch is in the worst possible place now for a Sportstar - he's getting older and nearing the end of his career and he is longterm injured. A horrible place to be. And then he has to look at the contender lighting up the field and being told he's not as good and a "two trick pony".

James O'Donoghue is a joy to watch - the story of the weekend should be about him, and about the wonderful Armagh championship run after a disastrous league. But no - the media want the story to be all about themselves.

Great post WS and spot on.

Gooch sitting out the year and playing waterboy is no doubt depressing enough, but to have to listen to this ****e in the media then?
Anyway, it all pales in comparison to today as his mother Maureen sadly passed away. RIP.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 10-08-2014 10:13pm

According to Donal Óg Cusack tonight the crossbar in Croke Park is half a foot higher than any other ground.

dastardly00 · 10-08-2014 10:26pm

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

According to Donal Óg Cusack tonight the crossbar in Croke Park is a a foot higher than any other ground.

He said half a foot.

But yeah it would be interesting to know if that is true.

Realt Dearg Sec · 10-08-2014 10:40pm

Is denying Kilkenny, and in particular Richie Hogan, a MOTM award a part of Sunday Game policy this year?

Say Your Number · 10-08-2014 11:01pm

Brolly's off again

ProudDUB · 10-08-2014 11:02pm

dastardly00 wrote: »

He said half a foot.

But yeah it would be interesting to know if that is true.

It's not the first time that he has said that. He has mentioned it a few times in his newspaper column too. I vaguely remember some one from one of the provincial grounds (Ennis maybe) being asked if they had intentionally lowered their goal posts to give their goalkeeper an advantage. Or maybe it was someone from Croker who was asked if they had intentionally raised theirs. (I forget which, sorry.) Either way, denials were forthcoming that crossbars had been raised/lowered & they maintained that their crossbars were the regulation height, whatever that is.

Who wants to volunteer to sneak into Croker to measure it?

Mountainlad · 10-08-2014 11:22pm

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Is denying Kilkenny, and in particular Richie Hogan, a MOTM award a part of Sunday Game policy this year?

I think on this occasion the got it correct. Hogan was a bit quieter second half. Class act though on tthe ball and shoe in for hurler of the year. He made Colin Fennelly look brilliant today with some of the balls he played him, incredible vision and then the skill to pick him out.

What impressed me most was his ability to do this under intense physical pressure, it's like he just knows when to play the ball into certain positions.

rebel girl 15 · 10-08-2014 11:25pm

Fennelly got the Sky MOTM and Hickey the RTE one - bit silly having two?

Amprodude · 11-08-2014 4:30am

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

According to Donal Óg Cusack tonight the crossbar in Croke Park is half a foot higher than any other ground.

He said that also in the 2004 final words hurling documentary when Joe Deane was trying to punch ball over bar and it hit crossbar.

themink · 11-08-2014 4:50am

Very impressed with Ciaran Whelan's punditry lately. Very fair in his analysis and usually right on the money with the points he makes. Even Joe Brolly was good on tonight's show I thought. The night time highlights show seems to suit him more than the live show where he is stuck beside Spillane & O'Rourke and usually ends up getting into his pontificator mode

Say Your Number · 17-08-2014 10:25pm

Donal Og "they turned wine into water" :pac:

He's not holding back in his criticism of that centre of excellence

Spudmonkey · 17-08-2014 10:27pm

Get off your soapbox Donal!

Boom__Boom · 17-08-2014 10:29pm

Say Your Number wrote: »

Donal Og "they turned wine into water" :pac:

In fairness he is spot on with the state of the Cork County board and PUC

Did like his line about propaganda being put out in the Echo on a Monday, especially given the link between the Echo and Examiner in Cork with Donal Og writing for d'Examiner.

ProudDUB · 17-08-2014 10:35pm

He was bang on the money though. The underage structures and coaching set ups in Cork are an absolute shambles. Yet the powers that be think it is ok to waste spend 70 million smackers on a stadium that will be full maybe 2-3 times a year? It's utter madness. My head think its great, as my own county can't but benefit from it. But my heart really feels for all the hard core GAA fans down there, that are getting shafted.

Moneymaker · 17-08-2014 10:35pm

Who got motm lads?

Ignorant etc. · 17-08-2014 10:35pm

In fairness Donal Og Cusack is a woeful bollix altogether, he has Brollyitis I think.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 17-08-2014 10:35pm

RTE/Des are after making a big deal about Brian Cody being booed.:rolleyes:

SM746 · 17-08-2014 10:43pm

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

RTE/Des are after making a big deal about Brian Cody being booed.:rolleyes:

Seen that. Slow news day!

Ignorant etc. · 17-08-2014 10:45pm

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

RTE/Des are after making a big deal about Brian Cody being booed.:rolleyes:

I'd say Cody gives far less of a pooh about it than Des does.

dirtyden · 17-08-2014 10:49pm

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

RTE/Des are after making a big deal about Brian Cody being booed.:rolleyes:

That was ridiculous. It was obviously a bit of craic which is exactly how Cody took it. Cahill trying to make out it was disrespectful, when it was obviously a joke.

dirtyden · 17-08-2014 10:52pm

Boom__Boom wrote: »

In fairness he is spot on with the state of the Cork County board and PUC

Did like his line about propaganda being put out in the Echo on a Monday, especially given the link between the Echo and Examiner in Cork with Donal Og writing for d'Examiner.

He has a point in some of what he said but he also has an axe to grind which makes it hard to take what he is saying at face value. His analysis of the games themselves is excellent. Seamus Hickey was a good addition tonight too.

Ignorant etc. · 17-08-2014 10:52pm

dirtyden wrote: »

That was ridiculous. It was obviously a bit of craic which is exactly how Cody took it. Cahill trying to make out it was disrespectful, when it was obviously a joke.

It was also, in an odd way, an honour and in a way a display of respect. There are very few bad sportsmen that get booed by opposition fans.

ProudDUB · 17-08-2014 11:00pm

dirtyden wrote: »

He has a point in some of what he said but he also has an axe to grind which makes it hard to take what he is saying at face value. His analysis of the games themselves is excellent. Seamus Hickey was a good addition tonight too.

I am well aware of what sides Chairman Frank and Donal Og were on during the strikes. But I think that he did a good job of deflecting attention away from the personal aspect of it, by bringing up the stats of Corks lack of underage success. You can't really argue with those, no matter what side of StrikeGate you were on.

Re Cody and the booing. I was in Croke Park today. Just before they showed Cody on the big screen, stewards and Guards removed Cork fans from the Hill, as they were setting off flares/smoke bombs. The crowd booed that. Then they showed Cody on the screen, so I don't think that all of the boos were for him. Just as many people laughed when they saw Cody on the screen (especially when they saw the big grin on his face) as they booed. You just couldn't hear/see that on the telly.

dirtyden · 17-08-2014 11:34pm

ProudDUB wrote: »

I am well aware of what sides Chairman Frank and Donal Og were on during the strikes. But I think that he did a good job of deflecting attention away from the personal aspect of it, by bringing up the stats of Corks lack of underage success. You can't really argue with those, no matter what side of StrikeGate you were on.

Re Cody and the booing. I was in Croke Park today. Just before they showed Cody on the big screen, stewards and Guards removed Cork fans from the Hill, as they were setting off flares/smoke bombs. The crowd booed that. Then they showed Cody on the screen, so I don't think that all of the boos were for him. Just as many people laughed when they saw Cody on the screen (especially when they saw the big grin on his face) as they booed. You just couldn't hear/see that on the telly.

I think the fact that he called it a monument, was not too subtle a dig at someone in particular. A lot of what he said was reasonable and sensible but he is far from impartial. PUC badly needed a revamp, and I don't know what the plans for the centre of excellence are but they are hardly as basic as he is making out.

Ignorant etc. · 17-08-2014 11:37pm

Nothing wrong with flares in stadia as long as people aren't throwing them. Creates a bit of atmosphere is all.

ProudDUB · 17-08-2014 11:40pm

dirtyden wrote: »

I think the fact that he called it a monument, was not too subtle a dig at someone in particular. A lot of what he said was reasonable and sensible but he is far from impartial. PUC badly needed a revamp, and I don't know what the plans for the centre of excellence are but they are hardly as basic as he is making out.

Isn't there limited space down the Pairc, because of its proximity to the marina and private houses? Once the new stadium goes up, there will be only a small patch of land to be dedicated to a Centre of Excellence. Two pitches is not a lot, if you want to base the ongoing training of the seniors, the minors & the U21's there, especially when there are two different codes, as well as the ladies to consider.

Rightwing · 17-08-2014 11:41pm

The hurling analysts are top class.

Cusack was right, his analysis is top notch, but he could also have added in it's costing the taxpayer €30m. What a waste of money.

Fireball07 · 17-08-2014 11:50pm

ProudDUB wrote: »

Isn't there limited space down the Pairc, because of its proximity to the marina and private houses? Once the new stadium goes up, there will be only a small patch of land to be dedicated to a Centre of Excellence. Two pitches is not a lot, if you want to base the ongoing training of the seniors, the minors & the U21's there, especially when there are two different codes, as well as the ladies to consider.

Out of interest, I thought CIT had excellent facilities out there? Do the Cork teams use those at all?

I don't know much about it all tbh, but I know that Limerick's underage teams all train out in UL most of the time. There's no specific "centre of excellence" as far as I am aware, but there is a lot of money being put into coaching... there are some excellent coaches involved, they have development officers going around to the schools, to the clubs, they invite the best player to big academy training sessions at U-14/U-15 level.

I don't know how much the County Board pay to use UL facilities, but they do some training out in places like Rathkeale too and it seems to be working. But I imagine it's down to personnel rather than the pitches.

In fairness, a centralised centre of excellence does sound great in theory... it would make things a lot handier, I imagine the treatment of players, etc. would raise another notch. But do any county actually have one? Maybe one day it will be the norm, and teams will be falling behind if they don't have one, but I don't know if anyone does have anything along those lines- I imagine they just use whatever they can.

I could be wrong.

Grats · 17-08-2014 11:50pm

Boom__Boom wrote: »

In fairness he is spot on with the state of the Cork County board and PUC

Did like his line about propaganda being put out in the Echo on a Monday, especially given the link between the Echo and Examiner in Cork with Donal Og writing for d'Examiner.

He's spot on! I'm not from Cork and I knew as far back as 2005 that Cork hurling was in big trouble then. The problem was that they were so busy fighting and striking that they neglected the basic structures. There was too much emphasis on what the players were entitled to and not enough on how the underage was lagging behind other hurling counties. They've been playing catch up since and now Professor Cusack highjacks the Sunday Game to tell the rest of the country what we already knew!

RTE allow this man way too much airtime to air his own grievances and agendas. Just a few weeks ago he used the Dublin collapse against Tipp as an excuse to have a go at the dual player issue, again mainly a Cork problem. Mention of which, Aidan Walsh being a dual player wasn't the reason Cork lost today, yet he had to bring it up again. There are more than a dozen of that Cork team who play hurling only and they played below par today also.

nice_guy80 · 17-08-2014 11:52pm

If I were from Cork I'd be asking my TDs why €30 million tax payers money is being put towards PUC?
When local sports clubs cannot get grants for €30k to build dressing rooms

rebel girl 15 · 17-08-2014 11:53pm

They do use CIT for training of underage squads, but also the Mardyke and the Farm (UCC) - pretty costly though when you add up all the different squads using the pitches.

rebel girl 15 · 18-08-2014 12:01am

Fireball07 wrote: »

Out of interest, I thought CIT had excellent facilities out there? Do the Cork teams use those at all?

I don't know much about it all tbh, but I know that Limerick's underage teams all train out in UL most of the time. There's no specific "centre of excellence" as far as I am aware, but there is a lot of money being put into coaching... there are some excellent coaches involved, they have development officers going around to the schools, to the clubs, they invite the best player to big academy training sessions at U-14/U-15 level.

I don't know how much the County Board pay to use UL facilities, but they do some training out in places like Rathkeale too and it seems to be working. But I imagine it's down to personnel rather than the pitches.

In fairness, a centralised centre of excellence does sound great in theory... it would make things a lot handier, I imagine the treatment of players, etc. would raise another notch. But do any county actually have one? Maybe one day it will be the norm, and teams will be falling behind if they don't have one, but I don't know if anyone does have anything along those lines- I imagine they just use whatever they can.

I could be wrong.

Cork need to find the right people to coach before they go and create these centres of excellence! Don't see any proper coach education programme in place in Cork, a handful of CDA's and a lot of mistreatment of other lads paid to coach and go into schools, where they are told off you go with little or no guidance, which is very poor.

Kerry are creating one afaik, and sure neighbours can't fall behind :rolleyes: would be better investing the money into proper coaching structures

ProudDUB · 18-08-2014 12:04am

Fireball07 wrote: »

Out of interest, I thought CIT had excellent facilities out there? Do the Cork teams use those at all?

I don't know much about it all tbh, but I know that Limerick's underage teams all train out in UL most of the time. There's no specific "centre of excellence" as far as I am aware, but there is a lot of money being put into coaching... there are some excellent coaches involved, they have development officers going around to the schools, to the clubs, they invite the best player to big academy training sessions at U-14/U-15 level.

I don't know how much the County Board pay to use UL facilities, but they do some training out in places like Rathkeale too and it seems to be working. But I imagine it's down to personnel rather than the pitches.

In fairness, a centralised centre of excellence does sound great in theory... it would make things a lot handier, I imagine the treatment of players, etc. would raise another notch. But do any county actually have one? Maybe one day it will be the norm, and teams will be falling behind if they don't have one, but I don't know if anyone does have anything along those lines- I imagine they just use whatever they can.

I could be wrong.

I think some of the wiser heads in Cork are also wondering why Corks existing third level sporting structures & facilities are not being used more to aid the Cork GAA teams development and training. Call it the $64,000 question if you will. The Dubs and Leinster Rugby currently use DCU & UCD. Limerick and Munster use UL. It's hardly rocket science. :rolleyes:

Tyrone have a bad ass COE in Garvaghy. It cost 7 million smackers. Two thirds of that came from grants from Her Maj & the GAA. The rest was raised within the county. It is supposed to be a mega state of the art facility, with a multitude of pitches and every conceivable bell and whistle. But I heard that players hate training there. Kildare have Hawkfield, which pretty much bankrupted the county. So I guess the moral of the story is - be careful what you wish for.

Mountainlad · 18-08-2014 12:14am

I know this is a Sunday game thread an not a Cork underage crisis thread, but what exactly was the point in Mallow if that is not the center of excellence?

rebel girl 15 · 18-08-2014 12:17am

Mountainlad wrote: »

I know this is a Sunday game thread an not a Cork underage crisis thread, but what exactly was the point in Mallow if that is not the center of excellence?

Mallow club had two pitches, one up the north side of town in Carookeel, which was bought by a developer, who then built the complex as part of the deal. Now it was badly needed, as both pitches and facilities needed major updating. Castlelands, the developers company built it on very beneficial terms for the local club

Mountainlad · 18-08-2014 12:24am

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Mallow club had two pitches, one up the north side of town in Carookeel, which was bought by a developer, who then built the complex as part of the deal. Now it was badly needed, as both pitches and facilities needed major updating. Castlelands, the developers company built it on very beneficial terms for the local club

How many pitches have they there? So it was private investment and never considered for Cork development teams?

Rightwing · 18-08-2014 12:29am

It's a fantastic centre in Mallow. Would be a disgrace if it's not getting use.

MisterAnarchy · 18-08-2014 12:19pm

Rightwing wrote: »

It's a fantastic centre in Mallow. Would be a disgrace if it's not getting use.

Its a great centre but woefully managed and losing alot of money over the last few years since Croke Park banned all "foreign" sports from officially using the club.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/corkman/news/foreign-games-ruled-out-of-mallow-gaa-complex-27087808.html

lukin · 18-08-2014 1:20pm

Rightwing wrote: »

The hurling analysts are top class.

Cusack was right, his analysis is top notch, but he could also have added in it's costing the taxpayer €30m. What a waste of money.

I don't actually agree that it is a waste of money. Pairc Ui Chaoimh badly needed a re-vamp, it is an absolute kip. I hate going there.

The Sunday Game Thread

Comments