If the UK asked Ireland to rejoin the Union, how would you vote?

kingchess · 20-09-2014 12:11pm

many ra heads in Scotland?

FTA69 · 20-09-2014 12:11pm

Berserker wrote: »

Where do you live again? You are badmouthing the very people that have given you employment and a livelihood, something your wonderful motherland failed to do.

What are you on about? I'm giving out about Irish people who are so unimaginative and uninspired that they advocate stripping ourselves of independence rather than actually create real political change in their own country. I never had a pop at the average British person either for that matter; I love this country; but that doesn't mean I can't support Irish independence either.

You can try and pigeon-hole me into this "Brit hater" category all you want, but it's a load of sh*te on your part.

Agricola · 20-09-2014 12:13pm

Having a bunch of jumped up Tories deciding policy here? Singing god save the queen? You're havin' a larf inchya mate?

The Golden Miller · 20-09-2014 12:15pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I voted yes to wind up all the Ra heads.

Well judging by many of your previous posts, and the fact you use the term "Ra heads", shows you would have voted yes regardless of whether you were trying to wind them up or not. Is it ok if I call you a west brit now? Or will you then use the roll eye emoticon to condescendingly look down on me and show how your more enlightened and matured than me, even though it's perfectly ok for west brits to say Ra heads? Irony lost on them (you) and all that

ZeitgeistGlee · 20-09-2014 12:18pm

DLMA23 wrote: »

Utopian concept, nice in theory but humans being humans, doubtful it would work

True enough, I imagine the English population wouldn't much care for the idea a Scottish, Irish or Welsh vote would be worth considerably more than theirs but I couldn't imagine the S/I/Ws agreeing to it any other way given the alternative.

Still, it's only a matter of time until we're all part of a federalised Europe anyway, for better or worse.

edgecutter · 20-09-2014 12:21pm

pedro1234 wrote: »

If the UK asked Ireland to rejoin the Union, how would you vote?

1. Yes to accept rejoining the Union.
2. No to reject rejoining the Union.

Why the hell would we want to back. They did a terrible job the first time.

Richard Hillman · 20-09-2014 12:28pm

No to reject rejoining the Union

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Well judging by many of your previous posts, and the fact you use the term "Ra heads", shows you would have voted yes regardless of whether you were trying to wind them up or not. Is it ok if I call you a west brit now? Or will you then use the roll eye emoticon to condescendingly look down on me and show how your more enlightened and matured than me, even though it's perfectly ok for west brits to say Ra heads? Irony lost on them (you) and all that

Mission completed

rozeboosje · 20-09-2014 12:29pm

dublin-texas wrote: »

They allowed certain types of foreigners who reside in Scotland to vote.

Maybe that is the reason that vote failed.

I see what you did there :-)

Indeed

Richard Hillman · 20-09-2014 12:29pm

No to reject rejoining the Union

Agricola wrote: »

Having a bunch of jumped up Tories deciding policy here? Singing god save the queen? You're havin' a larf inchya mate?

I would rather the Conservatives than Fine Gael tbh. If we could find a way of a government swap or at least a PM swap, I'd be a happy panda.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 20-09-2014 12:34pm

dublin-texas wrote: »

if the UK leaves the EU Ireland will have to make a decision, that is what I said, that in fact is the sentence I started with.

Can you imagine having border control up north? Can you imagine that Ireland will accept the the EU regulates the trade with the UK because the EU is the body that will negotiate trade agreements with the UK?

Canada and the USA don't need to join each other, they have the right each to negotiate their own trade agreements, they have NAFTA for example and the EU and USA are currently forcing a secret trade agreement on us.

All I'm saying is if the UK leaves the EU Ireland will have to re-evaluate it's standing.

Countries in the EU can have close relationships with non EU countries in Europe without much hassle I would say the same would happen between ourselves and the UK and not much would change.

Noway has free trade agreements with the EU and there is a passport union between the Nordic countries despite Norway not being in the EU. I am sure something similar would be negotiated between EU countries should the UK ever choose to leave the EU.

The Golden Miller · 20-09-2014 12:34pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Mission completed

Do you know what the term wind up means? If you do and you think I'm wound up going by my last post, then you really aren't the brightest, are you?

mister gullible · 20-09-2014 12:35pm

This thread is just a wind up :rolleyes:

Fallschirmjager · 20-09-2014 12:38pm

Jawgap wrote: »

The defining experience for me was when one of my kids got seriously ill in the UK - I wasn't once asked to pay for anything - the ICU, the helicopter transfers, the advanced medication etc all covered. The post-treatment review with the physicians was mindblowing.

Fast forward a couple of years and another child fell ill - the experience of the HSE in a republic that is supposed to 'cherish' its children would have put the Yanks to shame. No sooner had he been transferred from one hospital to another than the first hospital was phoning and chasing for 'their' money. No discussion / interaction with the medical team ("Family liaison? What's that?"), everything beyond the most basic care had to be paid for.

If the measure of a country is how well it treats its children, then as far as I'm concerned the Republic failed its test when it came to my family.

Who said it's a measure? That's not what a country has to do, that your job as a parent. It should not be the job of the UK's taxpayers to provide that and the reason politicians do is so you will think exactly as you do above. So the people on this board who chose not to have kids, hate kids, they should also have their money taken and given to yours and mine? That war you disagree with, how about that? Should you pay for that, your kids forced to join? How about that as a measure? No it should not be.

Those who trade freedom for security will loose both and deserve neither. Benjamin Franklin said that.

A friend of mine who lived in Poland during the communist years has a great explanation of socialism, there are those who believe it and those who understand it. You are a believer, judging from your comment. The people who understand it are politicians who you transfer all your freedom to.

Look at the votes in Scotland yesterday. The youth wanted independence, the older generation wanted their pensions and it's security. The older gens wanted the youth of the UK to pay for a pension system that is failed. They traded independence for money. Are they concerned with the 1.5 trillion pounds in debt the UK has and the kids have to pay for and that does not include banking debt by the way. No they are not.

This is exactly why we need politicians out of healthcare, pensions etc. it's a power play, it's not meant to work. They will always play the nurses and the unions and the doctors against the taxpayer. There is always a bad guy who we just need a different politician to fix. Look at the current debacle. A new guy now in charge who is going to fix it...Jesus how many times do they play the same game and Citizens fall for it? You see this everywhere, the politician opening the cancer ward, the road, the school. What are they really doing, they are saying they can just as easy take it away, that's the REAL message. The NHS does not work, your example does because kids are a vote getter but go look up the soon to be end of life plans. It's not a decision you and your family make, they will.

Liberty, which is what Scotland gave up is difficult, it's tough but it's your job to ensure your kids are not left with debt. That is what is happening to Western Europe now. Older gens are trading Liberty for security and they don't care how much it costs even the end of their country. It is not the job of another citizen to pay for me, that's my job.

So you say your kids health is a measure, how about the debt and their kids debt, is that also a measure? Spare me they have to be alive to experience it, that's politician talk. That's the usual bs we hear from ministers, thats the power play and exactly why they pick healthcare, it's emotive.
I am truly happy your kids are okay and I mean that as a parent, but you are also responsible for ensuring they can live a life that does not mean they are saddled with your debt. Right now the debt load in Europe is so high they are taxing the children your kids will have, they are taxing now the sperm and eggs of your children. Does it sound like a fair swap now? If it does you need to stop being a believer....and you better start to understand it.

The Golden Miller · 20-09-2014 12:39pm

mister gullible wrote: »

This thread is just a wind up :rolleyes:

You'd think that alright, considering it's such a ridiculous idea. But never underestimate the warped and deluded sense of reality that the resident partitionist revisionists have on here

Jawgap · 20-09-2014 12:39pm

FTA69 wrote: »

I agree with you 100% mate. The NHS is the best thing about living in the UK, and it's been of huge use to me a couple of times. Unfortunately it's under systematic attack now from the bastards in government and Labour don't have a much better record recently on the issue. The NHS was created as a result of decades of struggle from working people and is a testament to what can be achieved when people fight for something.

However, I don't the way forward for us to achieve the same is to piggyback into the UK. We need to ask the question as to why we can't have our own NHS as opposed to the shambolic, privatised mess we actually have. It's not like the UK is the only place in the world with a national health service either.

Inherently, there is no reason why we can't have a healthcare system that rivals and even exceeds the NHS. The main problems as I see them are the unions who represent the admin staff, and - on the other 'side' - the lack on any politician with the vision, character and charisma to carry the project through.

As long as we keep electing failed teachers and estate agents to the Dail (like it's some kind of glorified county council) then I think we're condemned to suffer under institutions like the HSE.

Which is a pity, because I reckon if we were just that bit more willing to introduce some accountability (proper accountability!) into the political and professional life of the country, the place would be transformed in short order for the better of everyone........then we'd have to introduce immigration quotas for the Brits

Grayson · 20-09-2014 12:43pm

Jawgap wrote: »

As long as we keep electing failed teachers and estate agents to the Dail (like it's some kind of glorified county council) then I think we're condemned to suffer under institutions like the HSE.

If we didn't elect so many of them it would be a start. We have far too many TD's.

Jawgap · 20-09-2014 12:50pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I would rather the Conservatives than Fine Gael tbh. If we could find a way of a government swap or at least a PM swap, I'd be a happy panda.

No way - I wouldn't want that Tory-boy (or any of them, tbh).......

.......Gordon Brown, however, might be interested in the gig

- he might have a bit of spare time. We should get him before the Labour Party realise what wet Milliband is - he makes Enda look like what he is - a failed teacher, who inherited his Daddy's 'business'......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMvwsMmXvDY

Jawgap · 20-09-2014 12:59pm

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

Who said it's a measure? That's not what a country has to do, that your job as a parent. .......

Yeah, sorry about that. Instead of going off to be an advanced paramedic, consultant paediatrician and medevac helicopter pilot - I went off and did something else.....and bought health insurance......

.....my bad:rolleyes:

I should've built a paediatric ICU in the spare bedroom and made sure their mother was a consultant anaesthetist.....

........then I could have spared the UK and Irish taxpayers the cost of looking after a sick child or two......

.......because providing advanced life-saving medical care to a child is definitely every parents' job.......

Jawgap · 20-09-2014 1:05pm

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

.......

Look at the votes in Scotland yesterday. The youth wanted independence, the older generation wanted their pensions and it's security. .....

Really, because the stats I'm looking at show that there were 109,533 youngsters aged 16 to 17 registered to vote - no one knows for sure how they voted but one exit poll found this age group had voted overwhelmingly for independence, with 71% for Yes.

However among the wider 16-24-year-old age group the Yes vote was 51%, according to the poll.

51% would be well inside the margin of error........unless anyone over 17 is no longer counted as youthful.

Richard · 20-09-2014 1:13pm

No to reject rejoining the Union

Jawgap wrote: »

Really, because the stats I'm looking at show that there were 109,533 youngsters aged 16 to 17 registered to vote - no one knows for sure how they voted but one exit poll found this age group had voted overwhelmingly for independence, with 71% for Yes.

There weren't any exits polls.

Any surveys I've seen seem to suggest that most 16-17 year olds were for no, although not by a big margin.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/scots-independence/60453/the-no-kids-has-alex-salmond-fatally-misjudged-under-18s

Jawgap · 20-09-2014 1:21pm

Richard wrote: »

There weren't any exits polls.

Any surveys I've seen seem to suggest that most 16-17 year olds were for no, although not by a big margin.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/scots-independence/60453/the-no-kids-has-alex-salmond-fatally-misjudged-under-18s

Really?

Full tables......
Scottish Referendum Poll CATI & ONLINE Fieldwork : 18th-19th September 2014

Summary table.....

EDIT: YouGov also did an exit poll

Karl Stein · 20-09-2014 1:34pm

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Sure thing boys.

Jawgap · 20-09-2014 1:37pm

Karl Stein wrote: »

0O0, 1squidge, ads20101, alroley, ancapailldorcha, archer22, beardybrewer, Berserker, billie1b, bitemeluis, Boaty, Brendan Flowers, bubblypop, Bullocks, bulmersgal, burtslimpslon, Canis Lupus, CantonasCollar, Careful_now!, Chiorino, cloud493, ComeraghBlue, Conbhar, Cosmo K, COYVB, Dancor, DEFTLEFTHAND, DennisZ, dukeraoul, face1990, FairytaleGirl, fedor.2., Finnt, foggy_lad, Fratton Fred, freewheeler, getzls, gordongekko, GSF, gunny558, Guy:Incognito, Henry Sidney, jaymcg91, John P. Mac, Kai123, Keithmc40, kfk, Kinzig, liamog, linvoysblues, lowelife, MakeEmLaugh, Makood, Manach, Mandzhalas, Molester Stallone II, Mycroft H, Mysteriouschic, n0brain3r, nm, No Username Yet, padd b1975, paddyirish23, Peg14, Quazzie, Rabbo, Remmy, Richard, Richard Hillman, robertpatterson, rottie 11, Ryu Hayabusa, ShadowHearth, Silent Runner, Simi, sitstill, snaps, Sols12, The Ayatolla, Tigerbaby, Timberrrrrrrr, Timfy, Tzardine, Victor McDade, Vince086, Wabbit Ears, xtal191, yoginindublin

Sure thing boys.

:cool: Not sure whether I should be disappointed, annoyed or, indeed, relieved not to be on that list

As I've always been a bit of a joiner - I'll go with disappointed

Micky Dolenz · 20-09-2014 1:39pm

The UK would never ever ever in a billion years do that. Who would want that hassle.

For that reason I'm voting YES.

Karl Stein · 20-09-2014 1:40pm

Jawgap wrote: »

As I've always been a bit of a joiner

Postcolonial Stockholm Syndrome.

You'd want to get that checked out.

Stockholm Syndrome refers to a situation in which a person is a captive or oppressed. The person, rather than maintaining at least mental independence or following the maxim that the prisoner’s only duty is to escape, surrenders to their captor and embraces their culture and ideology.

Source: The internet

kingchess · 20-09-2014 1:43pm

you can google Scottish cringe

Karl Stein wrote: »

Post colonial Stockholm Syndrome.

You'd want to get that checked out.

also called the "cringe",you can google Scottish cringe for an example

Jawgap · 20-09-2014 1:44pm

Karl Stein wrote: »

Post colonial Stockholm Syndrome.

You'd want to get that checked out.

One assumes that for someone to have 'Post colonial Stockholm Syndrome' they would, in fact, have to have been a colonial.

I've never been a colonial - just like I've never been parochial, nor suffered from 'little Irelander' syndrome.

CroatoanCat · 20-09-2014 1:55pm

No to reject rejoining the Union

Berserker wrote: »

What nightclub plays the national anthem at the end of the night? I have never been in one that does. How awfully tacky! Anyway the anthem wouldn't chance nor the flag. I know you Republicans are obsessed with flags. You clearly don't understand what a federal union means also.

Oh jaysus, I'm old. An old culchie with fond memories of having to break off the shift and struggle to my feet for the national anthem at the end of every Friday and Saturday night. :pac:

Karl Stein · 20-09-2014 1:56pm

Jawgap wrote: »

One assumes that for someone to have 'Post colonial Stockholm Syndrome' they would, in fact, have to have been a colonial.

Colonial refers to our former colonists and the havoc they presided over including a halving of the Irish population through starvation and migration.

just like I've never been parochial, nor suffered from 'little Irelander' syndrome.

Irish people are, on the whole, not 'little Irelanders'. Unlike the English/British we are very receptive to being in the EU and have no issue considering ourselves Europeans. We tend to look outwards rather than inwards.

I'd hazard a guess our young people are as well travelled as just about any other nation in the world. You shouldn't confuse the part of the Irish psyche that steadfastly supports independence with parochialism. Those are your own prejudices.

Jawgap · 20-09-2014 2:03pm

Karl Stein wrote: »

Colonial refers to our former colonists and the havoc they presided over including a halving of the Irish population through starvation and migration.

Irish people are, on the whole, not 'little Irelanders'. Unlike the English/British we are very receptive to being in the EU and have no issue considering ourselves Europeans. We tend to look outwards rather than inwards.

I'd hazard a guess our young people are as well travelled as just about any other nation in the world. You shouldn't confuse the part of the Irish psyche that steadfastly supports independence with parochialism. Those are your own prejudices.

I'd agree - we are very pro-European and, when it suits us, we're very good Europeans - but just because we've got to every corner of the world doesn't mean we're outward looking.

Having lived in a few countries myself I never failed to be amazed at the amount of effort the Irish abroad put into trying to make whatever corner of a foreign field they've ended up in as close to 'home' as possible - instead of getting on with living and embracing the local culture, community etc - that doesn't mean giving up your 'Irishness' - it just means adding to it.

If the UK asked Ireland to rejoin the Union, how would you vote?

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