Swords Club League suspended

Sorry, to ruin the months with more daylight hours! If the garda is on holidays whats the problem?

Relate note - race in Surrey (home to part of the Olympic road race) gets cancelled by police:

I had a lurking suspicion that it may be something to do with the police that seemed to be spending their entire morning, and half of Surrey's Force (oh OK, we counted 4 vehicles of various types) following us, and essentially trying to catch us doing something wrong. Now this is obviously fine, they may have responded to reports of poor riding, or whatever, its their job to keep the peace and all that.

http://firstseasoncycling.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/corri-dorri-sl-23-road-race.html

Club members: check your email there's and update email from the Club Secretary on the League.

League cancelled for 2012 and a lot of new measures required to be put in place for 2013. I presume it won't be long before all these changes will be required for all Club Leagues around the country.

Do my marshalling credits carry over to next year :rolleyes:.
If not, I will make sure to marshall the last 2 races of the league next year!
North County Dublin is safe for another year!

Inquitus wrote: »

I have a few points / questions on this issue:

1) I presume the position taken by this particular Guard could be applied to all racing currently held in Ireland with the exception of bigger events such as the Rás ,the national Championships etc. ?
2) Is this the Guards personal professional opinion? or is he acting with the backing of the local Garda Superintendent. Clearly it would be remiss of him to act unilaterally, rather he should get a senior figure from the local Gardai to approach the club in formal discussion with an aim to resolve the issue in a satisfactory way for both parties if possible.
3) He certainly did raise some valid issues, but his tone is poor and his missive is poorly written and confrontational rather then engaging.

The Incident in question may have been witnessed by a guard but the letter would have been issued from the swords district superintendent. A guard would not take it upon himself to issue any form of letter without the backing of his superintendent.

Guys,

Here's the letter i sent. Nothing too radical in it. As swordscc run races within the Jurisdiction of Balbgiggan Gardai, it may or may not affect other clubs.

As i state in the letter, I think this is a positive situation as it should make road races that bit safer for everybody.




"This means that before we can race next year, the club must prepare a Risk Assessment Document and submit it to the Gardai before the Club League commences. The Gardai will review this document and then determine exactly what assistance is required. This Document will include the following:

· Dates and times of all Races.
· Maps of each Circuit that will be used
o (The Map will indicate the location of each Marshal)
· The number of Lead cars, Motorbikes etc.
· Details of Medical Cover
· Name of the Chief Marshal for each Race
· An Accident Management plan etc.
In order to provide this information, the way we organise the League will have to change for 2013.


· Improved Advance notification of upcoming races in Garristown/Ballboughal area
· Introduce better “Marshal Training” for all members
· More Signs advising oncoming traffic of a “bike race in progress”
· “Pre-Registration” for all Riders and Marshals.
· The number of riders at each race will have to be limited.
· Marshals will have to be confirmed well in advance of all races.
· Visitors will have to be limited to “Invited Visitors Only”
· Stricter penalties for rider who race in a dangerous or unsafe manner etc.
At first glance, these measures may seem “Draconian”, but in reality, we do most of them already, but we simply need to do them in advance of each race and document our plans for the Gardai.

In my opinion, this should been viewed as a positive development, as the league races will be better organised and should be safer for both riders and “Joe Public”. It also means that we can continue to use the current circuits around Garristown and Ballyboughal.


The Club Sportive, Hill climbs and TT’s or any Touring/training activities are not affected by these changes. "

It does appear to be mostly a codification of what happens (or what should happen) in club leagues already. Is there a scenario where the Gardaí won't actually be involved on the night, they just sign off on you having sufficient marshalls at junctions and in vehicles?

In my opinion, this should be viewed as an extremely negative development.

Whilst that list looks very sensible, the critical part of this is "The Gardai will review this [Risk Assessment] document and then determine exactly what assistance is required".

That reads a lot like "racing on open roads is illegal unless and until we say it isn't". Not only that, but the approval process is for each and every race.

I have no particular opinion on how Swords club have handled this, since I'm not a member it isn't any of my business. I do, however, feel that this has potential to severely compromise bicycle road racing which has a long, safe tradition in Ireland, and I'm also bothered by the fact that the source of the original complaint was one guard who was upset about access to his driveway.

Cycling Ireland should be all over this. I suspect they are not.

Lumen wrote: »

Cycling Ireland should be all over this. I suspect they are not.

The treasurer is aware of this as he is a member and I have no doubt we will be alll over this when we get the full facts.

What I would say I hope its the same for any sporting event in their jurisdication, running, Gaa matches etc.

morana wrote: »

The treasurer is aware of this as he is a member and I have no doubt we will be alll over this when we get the full facts.

What I would say I hope its the same for any sporting event in their jurisdication, running, Gaa matches etc.

Are GAA matches held on public roads? I thought they played there matches on Private property?

the gardai did show me the risk assement document for the Dublin City Marathon, which is run on closed roads.

Any assistance from Cycling Ireland would be much appreciated Morana

Buffalo wrote:

Is there a scenario where the Gardaí won't actually be involved on the night, they just sign off on you having sufficient marshalls at junctions and in vehicles?

My understanding is that if it is to be run similar to a rolling road closure then the Gardai are the only ones with the power to stop traffic. If there is a Garda presence and their service provided then I would imagine this is likely to cost and be reflected the League Fees in 2013

dooverylittle wrote:

However the league might be a dull affair if it is swords CC members only, and by the sounds of it with the amount of marshals you require there wont be anyone left to race!

It's nice to mix it up a little with visitors but there's plenty of members left to race each week. Unlike Orwell it's not a requirement to wear your club jersey in the league so there may be more members racing than you think!

07lapierre wrote:

the gardai did show me the risk assement document for the Dublin City Marathon, which is run on closed roads.

Sounds a bit overkill to me! Compare an assessment of bike racing of 60-80 participants to that of tens of thousands of participants held once a year? Thank God CI have a more relevant template!

07Lapierre wrote: »

According to the Gardai, Its not the number of participants that is the issue.The issue is that the event is held on Public Roads.

I think we need to remember we are members of the public to and have rights to its not all one way,i just want to ride my bike

Spokes of Glory wrote: »

I get the impression that some posters are suggesting that Swords should somehow get into a legalistic argument with the gardai about whether they have or haven't the power to prevent racing on public roads.

Whatever the strict legal position, Swords CC depends on local community and gardai goodwill to conduct its league, open racing program and other events. If the gardai say these measures are needed, I don't think the club has a choice other than to work with them, and implement appropriate event management practices that balance participant and public safety, the gardai's obligation to public road-users, and the rights of the club.

While its obviously a disappointment to cancel the league, bear in mind the club has to consider the future working relationship with the gardai, not just 2012.

Spokes (ex club sec.)

Want your job back?

Does anyone truly believe safety is the issue?

fat bloke wrote:

I must say, personally, I'd have no problem at all paying more money and having a garda presence at club and open races.

Problem is the leagues are used a lot toward traing for open races where prize money & points are available. If it's turning out to be expensive peeps won't do the league and train themselves or with a chain gang instead. Having said this €40 for something like 18 league races is cheap, even double this would still be cheap!

Inquitus wrote: »

I only started racing this year and I was highly impressed with the setup, professionalism and the drive to keeping things safe for both the public and the racers.

I guess that's why the committee feels it's not going to be a radical change from the norm, just perhaps more pre races formalities like pre-registration, community notifications and marshal training.

dooverylittle wrote: »

Does anyone truly believe safety is the issue?

Speaking as a Health & Safety Professional I think the (effective) imposed suspension of the league by the authorities is yet another unfortunate example of "safety" being used to curtail important recreational activities.

(Banning running in the playground is a useful analogy here).

In all road racing events there are real risks but they are manageable, and have been well managed for many years by the club.

It is also worth noting that the risks to non participants (other road users) are extremely low.

The risks to riders are significant, we all know this, and we all accept these risk when we sign on.

I think the club has handled the situation very well, in the face of serious pressure.

The only way out of this is put the risk assessments and the control meaures in place, and demonstrate, in writing, to the authorites that the league is indeed "safe".

Sports events will never be risk free.

Safety is a very subjective term.

Society must accept that sports events are useful, positive, and beneficial. Joe Public needs to realise that there is more to life than working, shopping, and TV.

dooverylittle wrote: »

CJC999 wrote: »

The Incident in question may have been witnessed by a guard but the letter would have been issued from the swords district superintendent. A guard would not take it upon himself to issue any form of letter without the backing of his superintendent.

I would be interested in knowing if this is accurate?

I'll put it like this, the superintendent is the senior figure in each District. Everything that goes on in that district is sanctioned by the Supt. I cannot see a situation where a guard takes it upon himself to issue a letter to a club regarding health/safety issues surrounding road racing with out the day so from the superintendent. There is a chain of command and the guard is lowest link in that chain.

It could be easily clarified if the OP stated who signed the letter and from what office it came from.