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***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

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Comments

  • Options
    #92
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    seamus wrote: »
    This is a nice catch, kudos, but it doesn't seem that simple. Employers, banks and landlords frequently do ask for and store your PPSN, yet this is not illegal. So clearly the social welfare acts is not the be-all and end-all. In any case, I would fully expect that this has been or very soon will be accommodated for in law.

    And they'll have a PSO, which the local council don't. Failure to correct problems in a timely manner will result in fines for Irish Water, whereas the council can ignore it basically as long as they want.

    One thing which so many people seem to have missed is that access to install water meters has been provided in every new development built since the early 2000s and maybe earlmeter.Those guys digging holes in the paths are only doing so for older properties.

    Every government and local council for the last ten years has known full well that water charges were coming in eventually (our water supply model is unsustainable in any economy). It was just a game of pass the parcel and the music happened to stop when Fine Gael got into power.

    There is no political party who can claim they had nothing to do with this. Even your local SF councillors would have been well aware this was going on.

    Eh? My house was built in 2005 and I still had "the bhoys" showing up at my door to install that stupid meter.


  • Options
    #93
    donegal__road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 953 ✭✭✭donegal__road


    Pwindedd wrote: »
    Because it's a unique identifier for the allowances. It's not the PIN number to your soul.

    thanks, I thought it was... :rolleyes:


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    #94
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    OldRio wrote: »
    You were doing so well but over egged it.
    The health system in this country is appalling. The NHS is a system that works. It is treat like a political football in the UK. It may have faults but my God I wish we had it here.
    'Services are better' ? In Ireland? Pray tell.

    Everybody thinks the NHS is better in the UK because it's an uncriticisable religion. Everybody hates the HSE because Irish people love to hate their own stuff.

    Statistically they look similar.


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    #95
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    Everybody thinks the NHS is better in the UK because it's an uncriticisable religion. Everybody hates the HSE because Irish people love to hate their own stuff.

    Statistically they look similar.

    That's so true.

    Fecking HSE, Fecking Eircom, Fecking ESB.

    All we seem to do is complain.


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    #96
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,915 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    Everybody thinks the NHS is better in the UK because it's an uncriticisable religion. Everybody hates the HSE because Irish people love to hate their own stuff.

    Statistically they look similar.

    'Uncriticisable religon' Not at all. Like I said earlier its treat like a political football. Some of the right wing press in the UK hate it.

    'Irish people love to hate their own stuff' A complete and lazy generlisation which is easy to do and just disguises the fact.

    I and my family have used both UK and Irish hospitals and medical services. I have relatives who work in both. IMHO the NHS is the better service.


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    #97
    donegal__road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 953 ✭✭✭donegal__road


    OldRio wrote: »
    IMHO the NHS is the better service.

    NHS is better by a country mile. I go to an NHS dentist in the north, plus I have had relatives that have used Altnagelvin hospital and the new Erne hospital in Enniskillen.


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    #98
    ankaragucu
    Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭ankaragucu


    Been reading on social media that Irish water installing meters in your home is a bit like Sky turning up and installing their dish and system in your home?If you didnt consent to it you dont have to pay.The key being "no consent no contract" . . . . .
    IS this total guff?


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    #99
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    ankaragucu wrote: »
    Been reading on social media that Irish water installing meters in your home is a bit like Sky turning up and installing their dish and system in your home?If you didnt consent to it you dont have to pay.The key being "no consent no contract" . . . . .
    IS this total guff?

    They're not installing the water meter in your home

    It'll be out under the footpath/road


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    #100
    paulbok
    Registered Users Posts: 4,898 ✭✭✭paulbok


    delahuntv wrote: »
    Surely this is a good reason to give Irish water your full support - they will invest and have a lot more expert to correct issues than any local council.

    (I used to live in US and also UK - so am well used to water charges and property taxes at multiples of what we are being charged here!)

    Give it a few years.


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    #101
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,481 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    IW are not installing a meter in your home, they are installing them outside your home. A bit pedantic for sure but I believe it is a big flaw in the whole system.

    If they had installed the meter in your house, like ESB/Gas, then they would have need permission for each property to enter the property and make alterations. They avoided this issue by installing it outside the property, mainly on the footpath.

    While this saves a huge amount of hassle, it does however create a possible issue in regards to tampering etc. It can be argued that as the ESB/Gas meters are on your property you take responsibility for them but how can anybody be expected to maintain the meter outside the property?

    What happens if the meter gets tampered with, if the dial gets broken? What if it gets removed and replaced with a non meter which allows the water to flow?


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    #102
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,024 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    What happens when Irish Water is sold off in the usual corrupt way in the future

    what happens to all the personal information held by them?


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    #103
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    What happens when Irish Water is sold off in the usual corrupt way in the future

    what happens to all the personal information held by them?

    Prob the same thing that happened to that phone company, It will all be stored on a laptop. That could not possibly go missing.. :D


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    #104
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    ankaragucu wrote: »
    Been reading on social media that Irish water installing meters in your home is a bit like Sky turning up and installing their dish and system in your home?If you didnt consent to it you dont have to pay.The key being "no consent no contract" . . . . .
    IS this total guff?

    Your standard "Freeman of the land" guff


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    #105
    ankaragucu
    Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭ankaragucu


    Its not so much the 'in the house or under the path outside your house' argument here.I'm taking it as when it becomes a private company it will be providing a service you never asked for or consented to.So if you refuse to acknowledge them at all, once they become privatised you'll have an argument.Of course you may get cut off in the meantime!
    Also as a private company providing such a service, by EU law it should have competition.It cant have a monopoly.It would have to go like the bin collections.
    Can anyone remember the last time ANYTHING was done right in this country?!


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    #106
    323
    Registered Users Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭323


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    It probably will because there is an incentive to maintain the service now.

    I very much doubt that. Irish Water have conveniently been set up as a private body providing a public service.

    If you have a complaint about their service you have no means of redress, so no incentive for them to bother.

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



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    #107
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,668 ✭✭✭flutered


    fxotoole wrote: »
    You mean Fianna Fáil, right? The party that signed us up to water charges when they went looking for a bailout?
    the troika had a press release which said that the gov did not have to impliment both the lpt and the water usage tax, the gov in keeping with their motto of beng good europeans did both.


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    #108
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    ankaragucu wrote: »
    Its not so much the 'in the house or under the path outside your house' argument here.I'm taking it as when it becomes a private company it will be providing a service you never asked for or consented to.So if you refuse to acknowledge them at all, once they become privatised you'll have an argument.Of course you may get cut off in the meantime!
    Also as a private company providing such a service, by EU law it should have competition.It cant have a monopoly.It would have to go like the bin collections.
    Can anyone remember the last time ANYTHING was done right in this country?!

    Had a good laugh at the competition part. It's a bit like that phone company when a UK one came here and laid fibre all over Ireland. Our phone company complained to the courts. So the UK company went home and now will not let our phone company use the fibre that's been in the ground for years.

    Only competition you will see is people killing themselves to get the 150k plus jobs in there


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    #109
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,485 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    flutered wrote: »
    the troika had a press release which said that the gov did not have to impliment both the lpt and the water usage tax, the gov in keeping with their motto of beng good europeans did both.

    Best little boys in the class :pac:


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    #110
    Hermy
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,302 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »
    However, I think that the whole thing is a step too far, considering my parents haven't been able to drink their water supply for the past year due to Cryptosporidium.

    Could they bring a case to the small claims court under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act? Or could they simply refuse to pay on the grounds that the goods [in this case water] are not of merchantable quality?

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #111
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Hermy wrote: »
    Could they bring a case to the small claims court under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act? Or could they simply refuse to pay on the grounds that the goods [in this case water] are not of merchantable quality?

    True all the lead and cryptosporidium


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    #112
    Fr. Ned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Fr. Ned


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Best little boys in the class :pac:

    It's a uniquely Irish thing, always needing to be validated by our 'betters'.

    Enda is a prime example of this, it's a kind of stockholm syndrome......


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    #113
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    ankaragucu wrote: »
    I cant believe how incredibly gullible and plain thick some people still are in thinking that lpt and water tax has and will be used to improve and upgrade infrastructure.
    How fuking stupid are you people?

    Nobody ever said that the LPT would lead to better/more local services.

    People may have expected that, but their expectation is incorrect.

    The LPT simply replaces central Govt funding of councils.

    Councils won't have a penny more income.

    I have said this over and over on Boards.

    The central Govt will spend less and so they deficit falls.

    So the LPT is "more taxes for the same services, as part of broadening the tax base and helping reduce the fiscal deficit."


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    #114
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Pwindedd wrote: »
    I am starting to think I must be the only person in Ireland who thinks that we should pay for the water we use ???

    I'm genuinely bewildered that so many people think that this utility should be free.


    There's nothing free.

    It costs 1 - 1.2bn pa for water.

    Taxes covered that up until now.

    In 2013 the State collected 59bn and spent 70bn, leaving a fiscal deficit of 11.5bn.

    This must fall.

    So taxes must rise, and spending must fall. Both are happening.

    The LPT and water charges are part of the tax increases.


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    #115
    Fr. Ned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Fr. Ned


    Geuze wrote: »
    There's nothing free.

    It costs 1 - 1.2bn pa for water.

    Taxes covered that up until now.

    In 2013 the State collected 59bn and spent 70bn, leaving a fiscal deficit of 11.5bn.

    This must fall.

    So taxes must rise, and spending must fall. Both are happening.

    The LPT and water charges are part of the tax increases.

    It's all spin and lies from the current junta though.

    These new taxes have to be paid from our income so are a tax on income.

    However the junta continually tell us that they haven't nor won't increase income tax.

    It's like having a dog piss on your leg and someone telling you it's raining.

    It's easy to see why less and less people believe anything that comes from the mouths of these compulsive liars.

    BTW, if we weren't paying billions in interest on loans taken on to bailout private gamblers and speculators we wouldn't have a deficit at all.


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    #116
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Since, as Simon Covney points out, we have been paying for water and water infrastructure via general taxation for years, I look forward to the logical and inevitable reduction in general taxation once water metering comes into full effect.


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    #117
    Caliden
    Registered Users Posts: 5,982 ✭✭✭Caliden


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Since, as Simon Covney points out, we have been paying for water and water infrastructure via general taxation for years, I look forward to the logical and inevitable reduction in general taxation once water metering comes into full effect.

    It will remain the same as there will now be an 'administration fee' added to general taxation.

    This is required due to the costs relating to separating water payments from regular taxation payments.


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    #118
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Since, as Simon Covney points out, we have been paying for water and water infrastructure via general taxation for years, I look forward to the logical and inevitable reduction in general taxation once water metering comes into full effect.

    I repeat again, the LPT and water charges are part of an effort to broaden the tax base, and raise more taxes to reduce the fiscal deficit.

    We borrowed 11.5bn during 2013, so nobody should expect any tax cuts.


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    #119
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Since, as Simon Covney points out, we have been paying for water and water infrastructure via general taxation for years, I look forward to the logical and inevitable reduction in general taxation once water metering comes into full effect.


    The problem is that we have paid taxes plus borrowed to cover the costs of water infrastructure.


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    #120
    rameire
    Registered Users Posts: 4,115 ✭✭✭rameire


    Fr. Ned wrote: »
    It's all spin and lies from the current junta though.

    BTW, if we weren't paying billions in interest on loans taken on to bailout private gamblers and speculators we wouldn't have a deficit at all.

    Not true

    of the total interest amount of 8 billion we currently are paying on our debt.
    only 1.6billion of interest is due to the bailout debt.
    so only 20% of the interest we pay is due to the bailout.

    so if we got rid of that amount of interest we would still be running a deficit.

    🌞 3.8kwp, 🌞 Split 2.28S, 1.52E. 🌞 Clonee, Dub.🌞



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    #121
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Our gross debt is 203bn at end-2013.

    http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/gfsa/governmentfinancestatisticsapril2014/#.U8e7OvldWSo


    Our interest bill during 2013 was 7.4bn.

    The gross cost of recapitalising the banks was 64bn.

    So the gross cost of the banking crisis is 31.5% of our gross public debt.

    I would suggest, then, that up to 2bn of our annual interest bill is due to the banking crisis.

    Also, as our public debt rose so high due to the banking crisis, that led to higher interest rates on the public debt.

    So the banking crisis means: more public debt, at higher interest rates.


This discussion has been closed.
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