Marriage Equality Referendum

alaimacerc · 18-04-2015 6:41pm

J_E wrote: »

To be honest I think door-to-door canvassing is a little intrusive and could not in good conscience do it. I don't like when politicians to it, when Jehovah's Witnesses do it, and by principle, equality voters.

Fair enough. It's still a legitimate thing to do, and frankly given the apparent apathy about the measure, a very necessary one.

There's no doubt it'll get some people's backs up, though. One person when asked how he was going to vote got very shirty, and said "are you telling me how I should vote?" Um, not rather the exact opposite, were they actually listening to what was said, as opposed to just looking for a pretext on which to be offended. Possibly even motivate them to vote against! ... but I suspect it's largely going to be a matter of confirming existing views, in such cases.

There is one story I heard where an award recipient was asked to step down so an Equality group could get it, 'for the cause' and such, I am not going to specify but more than 1 person confirmed it to me.. Think that's really awful.

Obviously I don't know what ward you're referring to, but I'm a bit puzzled by what you mean by "an Equality group". You mean the Yes Equality campaign, or one of its local branches? Or are we sliding entirely off the "referendum" point here?

Annasopra · 18-04-2015 11:57pm

J_E wrote: »

To be honest I think door-to-door canvassing is a little intrusive and could not in good conscience do it. I don't like when politicians to it, when Jehovah's Witnesses do it, and by principle, equality voters. I think this is how I feel about a lot of the campaign in general. There is one story I heard where an award recipient was asked to step down so an Equality group could get it, 'for the cause' and such, I am not going to specify but more than 1 person confirmed it to me.. Think that's really awful.

Thats your personal opinion. Fair enough. However most people don't share your view its intrusive and are friendly and pleasant on the doorsteps. The reality is it if isnt done in this referendum it will be lost.

Aard · 19-04-2015 5:00pm

According to this article http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0419/695192-garda-yes-campaign-photo/ it's possible to register to vote up until the 5th of May. Can anybody confirm this, as I had thought that some time in April was the cutoff date. Also, which form is the correct one up until the 5th? Still trying to round up first-time voters here to register

alaimacerc · 19-04-2015 5:42pm

Aard wrote: »

According to this article http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0419/695192-garda-yes-campaign-photo/ it's possible to register to vote up until the 5th of May. Can anybody confirm this, as I had thought that some time in April was the cutoff date. Also, which form is the correct one up until the 5th? Still trying to round up first-time voters here to register

Yes, that's the date I've consistently been told for the Supplemental Register. The April date (25th I think?) is for a postal or special vote, which are absurdly hard to get in any case.

Arm yourself with a sheaf of RFA2s! (And don't forget RFA3s for the change of address people.) Also, I've heard of several registration "events" where they'll have the forms on hand and a Gard available to countersign them. One-stop shopping. You might want to check your area for similar.

Aard · 19-04-2015 5:47pm

Ok great thanks! I've printed out some RFA2's so I'm good to go. I'm assuming you can simply turn up at a local Garda station with ID and they'll oblige?

alaimacerc · 19-04-2015 5:53pm

Aard wrote: »

I'm assuming you can simply turn up at a local Garda station with ID and they'll oblige?

That's my understanding!

If I manage to fix the massive blowout in my bike tyre I might pop into a Garda station em route to Aldi to double-check on that...

Annasopra · 19-04-2015 6:08pm

Aard wrote: »

Ok great thanks! I've printed out some RFA2's so I'm good to go. I'm assuming you can simply turn up at a local Garda station with ID and they'll oblige?

Yes.

Some gardai just stamp and dont even look for ID.

Rememver as well that Monday 4th is a bank holiday

LoganRice · 19-04-2015 8:11pm

My friend wants to register and vote yes how can he do this?
Also how can people get more involved in the Yes campaign?
Thanks y'all

Daith · 19-04-2015 8:19pm

LoganRice wrote: »

My friend wants to register and vote yes how can he do this?
Also how can people get more involved in the Yes campaign?
Thanks y'all

First head to

https://www.checktheregister.ie/

and check if he's registered. If not download form RFA2 to get on the Supplemental List
https://www.checktheregister.ie/appforms/RFA2_English_Form.pdf

Fill in and go to Gardai station with ID before May 5th (1st May really)

Then head to https://www.yesequality.ie/yes-equality-map/ and find your local area and join

Annasopra · 19-04-2015 10:32pm

Daith wrote: »

First head to

https://www.checktheregister.ie/

and check if he's registered. If not download form RFA2 to get on the Supplemental List
https://www.checktheregister.ie/appforms/RFA2_English_Form.pdf

Fill in and go to Gardai station with ID before May 5th (1st May really)

Then head to https://www.yesequality.ie/yes-equality-map/ and find your local area and join

Remember RFA2 form has to be stamped by gardai first. If you physically go into a County Council office on May 5th they have to accept the RFA2 form

feardeas · 19-04-2015 11:16pm

Did the change of address one before the Presidential election in 2011. Garda looked for id so bring it just in case.

Will be interesting to see the numbers that join the suplementary register before the deadline. Saw that there were 300 registered in Galway one day last week. Good going.

Leonard Hofstadter · 20-04-2015 9:18pm

I lolled so much listening to this RTÉ News clip http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0419/695192-garda-yes-campaign-photo/.

According to Paddy Monaghan, gays apparently "already have equality" because "they can get married - as long as it's to a member of the opposite sex" :eek: :eek:

!

What an absolute moron. People like him are the reason I hope the Yes side wins, and wins well. Unfortunately I can't vote being non resident, but everyone in Ireland deserves to be treated equally, not the current situation where all people are equal, but some are more equal than others.

hotmail.com · 20-04-2015 10:41pm

captainspeed wrote: »

I lolled so much listening to this RTÉ News clip http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0419/695192-garda-yes-campaign-photo/.

According to Paddy Monaghan, gays apparently "already have equality" because "they can get married - as long as it's to a member of the opposite sex" :eek: :eek: !

What an absolute moron. People like him are the reason I hope the Yes side wins, and wins well. Unfortunately I can't vote being non resident, but everyone in Ireland deserves to be treated equally, not the current situation where all people are equal, but some are more equal than others.

Comments like this need to keep coming to ensure a Yes vote. Breda's not having sex comment is another gem.

hotmail.com · 20-04-2015 10:42pm

feardeas wrote: »

Did the change of address one before the Presidential election in 2011. Garda looked for id so bring it just in case.

Will be interesting to see the numbers that join the suplementary register before the deadline. Saw that there were 300 registered in Galway one day last week. Good going.

I genuinely hope all of them turn out on the day. Registering is one thing..please turn out on the day.

Aard · 20-04-2015 10:43pm

Spoke to some younger voters today. The level of belief that the referendum will pass with flying colours (paraphrasing there) is astonishing. When I highlighted my concern that the referendum won't pass they were equally astonished. I am increasingly of the belief that this referendum will pass or fail based solely on turnout of students and graduates.

marienbad · 20-04-2015 11:39pm

Aard wrote: »

Spoke to some younger voters today. The level of belief that the referendum will pass with flying colours (paraphrasing there) is astonishing. When I highlighted my concern that the referendum won't pass they were equally astonished. I am increasingly of the belief that this referendum will pass or fail based solely on turnout of students and graduates.

Not so, if only students and graduates vote yes is will be defeated easily .

Aard · 20-04-2015 11:40pm

That's....not what I said

marienbad · 20-04-2015 11:49pm

Aard wrote: »

That's....not what I said

Ok then, let me rephrase if all students and graduates vote yes and very little else then it will fail - satisfied ?

What will win this vote is the middle ground - not your natural base . The young and educated are the yes sides natural base, the old, the conservative religious are the no sides natural base.

It is the uncommitted middle ground who will decide , as they do in virtually every election.

Aard · 21-04-2015 2:36am

I did the calculations. Because I am that boring.

I crossed the recent IT poll with Census data. If the two are to be believed, then there are 537,000 people between the ages of 18 and 30 who will vote 'yes'. Give or take a couple of thousand.

Then take all of the "don't know"s and "won't vote"s. Across all age groups. There are 411,000 people in the country aged 18+ who either do not know how they will vote or who will not vote.

It is imperative for young people to vote in order for the referendum to pass. They will make more of an impact than the don't knows and won't votes combined.

Anyway. This was a wasted half-hour. Over-and-out.

alaimacerc · 21-04-2015 3:05am

I think there are two differentials here. There's the middle-aged cohort ("40+ males" in particular, we're told), who're well-used to voting, but may not trouble themselves to vote on this measure. Then there are the first-time (non!) voters, or 20+ people who're not yet significantly engaged in "conventional politics" at all.

If neither of these trouble to vote, and turnout if down in the miserably low 30s (cf Children's Rights and Nice I), this is going to go down in flames, and there will be much embarrassed coughing from the one, and looks of aghast horror from the other.

Aard · 21-04-2015 4:00am

Again according to my IT/Census calculations, there are about as many males aged 40+ who will vote 'yes' as there are males+females 18-30. (558,000 vs 537,000 respectively.) That just goes to show the significance of the younger vote.

Annasopra · 21-04-2015 6:43am

The soft yeses are the crucial ones.

I've canvassed a lot and a lot of people are saying they will "probably vote yes" or "have no problem with that"

If these people don't vote its lost.

And thats why canvassing is absolutely crucial. These people need someone to specifically ask them to go out on the day. They need someone to motivate them personally.

wakka12 · 21-04-2015 10:16pm

Aard wrote: »

Spoke to some younger voters today. The level of belief that the referendum will pass with flying colours (paraphrasing there) is astonishing. When I highlighted my concern that the referendum won't pass they were equally astonished. I am increasingly of the belief that this referendum will pass or fail based solely on turnout of students and graduates.

Was furious today , was eating lunch with this guy and discussing the referendum and he said he wasn't voting as he wasn't registered to vote yet! and his reason for not registering yet? He said ah sure it'll obviously pass like! And what pissed me off more is the fact that this guy is gay as christmas, like he's not out but he's so obviously gay and has shown no interest in women as long as Ive known him. Anyway his lovely german friend went on a mad one saying how lazy and ignorant he was being and made him promise he will go an register to vote , if not for himself then for her, as she's a german citizen she's not allowed to vote but wishes she could.

hopgog · 21-04-2015 10:18pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

The soft yeses are the crucial ones.

I've canvassed a lot and a lot of people are saying they will "probably vote yes" or "have no problem with that"

If these people don't vote its lost.

And thats why canvassing is absolutely crucial. These people need someone to specifically ask them to go out on the day. They need someone to motivate them personally.

Just so you know when you come to the door I say yes too so you won't bother me call me a bigot, but on the day I will be voting No twice.

Annasopra · 21-04-2015 10:34pm

hopgog wrote: »

Just so you know when you come to the door I say yes too so you won't bother me call me a bigot, but on the day I will be voting No twice.

:rolleyes:

wakka12 · 21-04-2015 11:44pm

hopgog wrote: »

Just so you know when you come to the door I say yes too so you won't bother me call me a bigot, but on the day I will be voting No twice.

We need more wonderful citizens like you in this country

L1011 · 22-04-2015 5:09pm

hopgog wrote: »

Just so you know when you come to the door I say yes too so you won't bother me call me a bigot, but on the day I will be voting No twice.

Stating intent to commit a serious crime (personation) on a public forum is an incredibly stupid thing to do.

wakka12 · 22-04-2015 9:21pm

L1011 wrote: »

Stating intent to commit a serious crime (personation) on a public forum is an incredibly stupid thing to do.

Can he seriously get arrested for that?

K4t · 22-04-2015 10:24pm

hopgog wrote: »

Just so you know when you come to the door I say yes too so you won't bother me call me a bigot, but on the day I will be voting No twice.

4 Yes votes from my house will make your votes irrelevant, just like your views.

Annasopra · 22-04-2015 11:45pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Can he seriously get arrested for that?

Voting twice? Yes. Its illegal.

alaimacerc · 23-04-2015 12:08am

L1011 wrote: »

Stating intent to commit a serious crime (personation) on a public forum is an incredibly stupid thing to do.

Also surprisingly popular. Even in the recent past tense, too.

L1011 · 23-04-2015 1:54pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Can he seriously get arrested for that?

Yes. Prevention of Electoral Abuses Act 1923 (as amended)

If you do actually vote twice, you can actually be barred from voting entirely after it although I doubt such a punishment would be brought down for a single offence or using "only" one illegal vote.

Aard · 23-04-2015 2:51pm

Does anybody know what the story is with posters on lampposts etc? There's a few put up in my area that are very low down on the poles, restricting view of traffic and the likes. Is there somebody I can complain to about this? And yes, I am trying to be as obstructive as legally possible to the "No" campaign.

hopgog · 23-04-2015 3:23pm

Aard wrote: »

Does anybody know what the story is with posters on lampposts etc? There's a few put up in my area that are very low down on the poles, restricting view of traffic and the likes. Is there somebody I can complain to about this? And yes, I am trying to be as obstructive as legally possible to the "No" campaign.

They have to be 8ft off the ground, I have cut down sf ones that where below that before, if they are lower then 8ft report or remove it if it's a danger.

I will be doing the same with yes posters

Aard · 23-04-2015 3:36pm

Report to whom?

hopgog · 23-04-2015 3:37pm

Aard wrote: »

Report to whom?

Local council obviously

Madame_Diem · 23-04-2015 6:21pm

Does anybody else fear like me that after said referendum will be pressured into conforming to heterosexual norms. I've always considered marriage to be too bourgeois and middle class. After its passes I'll be pressured by my mother/boyfriend etc into marruage.

Aard · 23-04-2015 6:22pm

Because only middle class people marry.

unfortunately · 23-04-2015 6:34pm

Madame_Diem wrote: »

Does anybody else fear like me that after said referendum will be pressured into conforming to heterosexual norms. I've always considered marriage to be too bourgeois and middle class. After its passes I'll be pressured by my mother/boyfriend etc into marruage.

Then tell your mother/boyfriend that you consider marriage to be bourgeois and middle class and that you don't want to get married. Problem solved. No need to restrict every other adult from making a decision about their life just because you can't stand your ground.

feardeas · 24-04-2015 3:09pm

Was chatting to a friend today. He told me that he in turn was chatting to a group of people recently. 3 out of four were voting yes. The other one ,a mutual aquaintence, said he wasn't in favour of it and didn't agree with it. He didn't give a reason. This fella would be late 30s I guess, professional and a gaa head. I found it interesting that he took that view. Not shocked but thought he'd be more open. Still it seems he won't vote at all.

It kind of tells me that not all people minded towards no are silent although from what i heated he was a bit taken aback that all in his company were definite yes voters.

alaimacerc · 24-04-2015 3:54pm

feardeas wrote: »

This fella would be late 30s I guess, professional and a gaa head. [...]

It kind of tells me that not all people minded towards no are silent although from what i heated he was a bit taken aback that all in his company were definite yes voters.

The GAA, "possibly the most heterosexual sport in the world", as I heard someone say recently, which I thought was rather hysterical. I think it's one of those things it's very easy to be in a "bubble" on, either way. The Yesses talk to their friends, and are sure the opinion polls are right. Why even bother to register or to vote, sure it'll pass anyway? Almost a no-class thing to "run up the score" on the poor traditionalists! Meanwhile the Nos talk to their friends, and are sure the opinion polls are all a metropolitan liberal big lie conspiracy, and are determined to go and vote to prove it.

Aard · 24-04-2015 3:58pm

It just goes to show how talking about it with friends and acquaintances can be the best form of campaigning. The realisation that one holds a minority view could be enough to turn somebody's vote. Or indeed, encourage them not to vote at all. This would especially be the case if a person's colleagues/friends hold one view, while that person's parents might hold another. The dichotomy can be confusing and indeed upsetting for some people.

feardeas · 24-04-2015 4:31pm

alaimacerc wrote: »

The GAA, "possibly the most heterosexual sport in the world", as I heard someone say recently, which I thought was rather hysterical. I think it's one of those things it's very easy to be in a "bubble" on, either way. The Yesses talk to their friends, and are sure the opinion polls are right. Why even bother to register or to vote, sure it'll pass anyway? Almost a no-class thing to "run up the score" on the poor traditionalists! Meanwhile the Nos talk to their friends, and are sure the opinion polls are all a metropolitan liberal big lie conspiracy, and are determined to go and vote to prove it.

Bubble as right. It depends on who you are chatting to although I have to say I have hear very few people chatting about it day to day.

dubscribe · 24-04-2015 4:41pm

UPDATE: as of 31 March 2015, the Children and a Family Relationship Bill was passed in the Seanad. Please see http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/children-and-family-relationships-bill-passes-in-seanad-1.2159352

dubscribe · 24-04-2015 4:46pm

HIB wrote: »

Just watching the news there and they asked the pro gay marriage guy what is the difference between marriage and civil partnership. He said something about being treated as equal citizens. Didn't give any tangible examples though. Can anyone elaborate ? What will be the actual, tangible differences? E.g. will marriage as opposed to civil partnership sort out some inheritance issues? Or maybe the right to a say in medical treatment of your partner?

Apparently there are approx 160 statutory differences between civil partnership and civil marriage. See : http://www.marriagequality.ie/getinformed/marriage/faqs.html

alaimacerc · 24-04-2015 4:47pm

dubscribe wrote: »

UPDATE: as of 31 March 2015, the Children and a Family Relationship Bill was passed in the Seanad. Please see http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/children-and-family-relationships-bill-passes-in-seanad-1.2159352

And was signed by the President a week later. Thus, "Children and Family Relationships Act".

MarriedButBi · 24-04-2015 6:00pm

feardeas wrote: »

Was chatting to a friend today. He told me that he in turn was chatting to a group of people recently. 3 out of four were voting yes. The other one ,a mutual aquaintence, said he wasn't in favour of it and didn't agree with it. He didn't give a reason. This fella would be late 30s I guess, professional and a gaa head. I found it interesting that he took that view. Not shocked but thought he'd be more open. Still it seems he won't vote at all.

It kind of tells me that not all people minded towards no are silent although from what i heated he was a bit taken aback that all in his company were definite yes voters.

We don't really know what his views are, or reasons are, if he didn't give them. Without knowing his reasons its hard to say its down to closed mindedness or anything else in particular.

MarriedButBi · 24-04-2015 6:03pm

Aard wrote: »

It just goes to show how talking about it with friends and acquaintances can be the best form of campaigning. The realisation that one holds a minority view could be enough to turn somebody's vote. Or indeed, encourage them not to vote at all. This would especially be the case if a person's colleagues/friends hold one view, while that person's parents might hold another. The dichotomy can be confusing and indeed upsetting for some people.

Are you serious??!!

You hope that a minority viewpoint either does not express their opinion or else changes it? Am I in the right place?? :eek:

There would be a lot of people in a lot of closets if that was the thing to do.

Father Rabulah Conundrum · 24-04-2015 6:03pm

feardeas wrote: »

Was chatting to a friend today. He told me that he in turn was chatting to a group of people recently. 3 out of four were voting yes. The other one ,a mutual aquaintence, said he wasn't in favour of it and didn't agree with it. He didn't give a reason. This fella would be late 30s I guess, professional and a gaa head. I found it interesting that he took that view. Not shocked but thought he'd be more open. Still it seems he won't vote at all.

It kind of tells me that not all people minded towards no are silent although from what i heated he was a bit taken aback that all in his company were definite yes voters.

I'm finding this referendum is a good barometer of assholery. You get a real sense of what people are really like, and who sits where on your naughty and nice list.

Aard · 24-04-2015 6:50pm

MarriedButBi wrote: »

Are you serious??!!

You hope that a minority viewpoint either does not express their opinion or else changes it? Am I in the right place?? :eek:

There would be a lot of people in a lot of closets if that was the thing to do.

Yeah that's literally not what I said.