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Lorna Byrne - False Prophet?

13

Comments

  • #102
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    I'm just wondering; since we all have an angel in attendance, should we really be concerned about the small band of angels that will wipe out a third of mankind.

    I mean, if our angels will fight for us then the army from Revelations is going to be vastly outnumbered by our angels aren't they?


  • #103
    looksee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,780 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I'm a bit puzzled here. This woman says she has messages from angels, but the Christians on here are inclined to dismiss her claims because she does not mention Jesus. Are you not a bit concerned that maybe she has it right, and that your particular religious belief is irrelevant in the wider scheme of things?

    Any of your bibles will tell you that angels were around long before Christianity or any of the sects/churches were around. All of the churches and religions were man made - for example, accepting that Jesus was the son of God, Christianity as a belief system would not exist if men had not picked up on it and made it so. So why should the petty doings of men have any relevance for God and the angels?

    You have no idea what you might be missing out on, maybe this is the message you have been waiting for?

    (yes, I know there is a circular argument in the middle of that, but it isn't possible to discuss religion without circular arguments)


  • #104
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    looksee wrote: »
    I'm a bit puzzled here. This woman says she has messages from angels, but the Christians on here are inclined to dismiss her claims because she does not mention Jesus. Are you not a bit concerned that maybe she has it right, and that your particular religious belief is irrelevant in the wider scheme of things?

    Any of your bibles will tell you that angels were around long before Christianity or any of the sects/churches were around. All of the churches and religions were man made - for example, accepting that Jesus was the son of God, Christianity as a belief system would not exist if men had not picked up on it and made it so. So why should the petty doings of men have any relevance for God and the angels?

    You have no idea what you might be missing out on, maybe this is the message you have been waiting for?

    (yes, I know there is a circular argument in the middle of that, but it isn't possible to discuss religion without circular arguments)

    Yes. I made a similar point. It would appear that prophets going against the prevailing mainstream religion is not a unique thing.


  • #105
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭homer911


    There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that Christians have or need "guardian angels". Christians have direct access to God, through the death of his son.

    The rest of your comments, from a Christian perspective, are nonsensical


  • #106
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    homer911 wrote: »
    There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that Christians have or need "guardian angels". Christians have direct access to God, through the death of his son.

    The rest of your comments, from a Christian perspective, are nonsensical

    But a newer improved testament may well do so.

    Anyway, isn't God with us all; what if Lorna can 'see' that manifestion of God and He appears as an angel with many names?


  • #107
    gimmebroadband
    Registered Users Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭gimmebroadband


    homer911 wrote: »
    There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that Christians have or need "guardian angels". Christians have direct access to God, through the death of his son.

    The rest of your comments, from a Christian perspective, are nonsensical


    Douay-Rheims Bible
    See that you despise not one of these little ones: for I say to you, that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father who is in heaven. (Matt: 18:10)


  • #108
    lmaopml
    Registered Users Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭lmaopml


    looksee wrote: »
    I'm a bit puzzled here. This woman says she has messages from angels, but the Christians on here are inclined to dismiss her claims because she does not mention Jesus. Are you not a bit concerned that maybe she has it right, and that your particular religious belief is irrelevant in the wider scheme of things?

    If you believe Lorna, than by all means feel free -

    The hint is in the name 'Christianity' - All religions are not the same to Christians, and this is the Christian forum. A person who doesn't like to mention Jesus is not a Christian.


    Any of your bibles will tell you that angels were around long before Christianity or any of the sects/churches were around. All of the churches and religions were man made - for example, accepting that Jesus was the son of God, Christianity as a belief system would not exist if men had not picked up on it and made it so. So why should the petty doings of men have any relevance for God and the angels?


    Sigh.

    Again, perhaps look at the beliefs of Christians, specifically who we believe Christ to be (God) - maybe a peek at the Creed etc.

    It's why we aren't New age spiritualists or indeed Hindus or Islamics or for that matter Atheists - but by all means you are a free agent to believe one, any, or all of the above through your reason, and for your man made reasons you rationalise.

    You have no idea what you might be missing out on, maybe this is the message you have been waiting for?

    (yes, I know there is a circular argument in the middle of that, but it isn't possible to discuss religion without circular arguments)


    Well it does seem to be driving you a little around the bend, but it's not that difficult to understand surely? Christians believe in Christ - The great commission was to go out and baptise all nations in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit - NOT to say, 'O shees, I really don't like to mention Jesus'' So I guess, that's the difference, a rather big one.


  • #109
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭homer911


    gimmebroadband wrote: »
    Douay-Rheims Bible
    See that you despise not one of these little ones: for I say to you, that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father who is in heaven. (Matt: 18:10)

    So on the basis of one vague line of scripture (How many? What do they do? One for one?) you would base an entire new age sect as being biblical and make angels the exclusive focus of this sect?


  • #110
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭homer911


    himnextdoor wrote: »
    Anyway, isn't God with us all; what if Lorna can 'see' that manifestion of God and He appears as an angel with many names?

    and what if these are satan's followers sent in disguise to mislead people? - its been mentioned here before that this woman never mentions Jesus.


  • #111
    gimmebroadband
    Registered Users Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭gimmebroadband


    homer911 wrote: »
    So on the basis of one vague line of scripture (How many? What do they do? One for one?) you would base an entire new age sect as being biblical and make angels the exclusive focus of this sect?

    I'm merely pointing out that we have guardian angels, The CC always taught that we have one.

    Psalm91: 10-12
    No evil will befall you,
    Nor will any plague come near your tent.

    For He will give His angels charge concerning you,
    To guard you in all your ways.

    They will bear you up in their hands,
    That you do not strike your foot against a stone.

    FWIW I believe this woman to be a fraud!


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  • #112
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    I don'y think the woman is at all well.


  • #113
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    homer911 wrote: »
    and what if these are satan's followers sent in disguise to mislead people? - its been mentioned here before that this woman never mentions Jesus.

    If Satan was working through Lorna Byrne then don't you think he would be devious enough to make sure that Lorna made enough references to Jesus to throw astute Christians like yourself off the trail, so to speak?

    Wasn't Lucifer the most wise, the most beautiful, the most powerful angel created by God? How stupid do you honestly expect him to be?


  • #114
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭homer911


    himnextdoor wrote: »
    If Satan was working through Lorna Byrne then don't you think he would be devious enough to make sure that Lorna made enough references to Jesus to throw astute Christians like yourself off the trail, so to speak?

    Wasn't Lucifer the most wise, the most beautiful, the most powerful angel created by God? How stupid do you honestly expect him to be?

    But he has and does (not in this situation however). He also doesnt waste his efforts and varies his battle plans constantly


  • #115
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    homer911 wrote: »
    But he has and does (not in this situation however). He also doesnt waste his efforts and varies his battle plans constantly

    Satan doesn't waste his efforts? Then what would you call his choice of Lorna Byrne? Wise?

    Or perhaps it is the case that only simple minds can be influenced by Satan. That's why he can't corrupt the Pope or his acolytes. It's a good job that Einstein and Oppenheimer were able to resist.


  • #116
    lmaopml
    Registered Users Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭lmaopml


    Whatever the story is with Lorna Byrne himnextdoor, I wouldn't say that a bestselling author is necessarily a 'simple mind'?

    Quite simply if she doesn't mention the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, or claims to have new revelations from God, than any Christian, which means Christ follower, worth their salt is entitled to be wary, and they don't have to be either Einstein, The Pope, himnextdoor or lmaoplm to do so....

    Are you a follower or a fan himnextdoor, do you like her books?


  • #117
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    lmaopml wrote: »
    Whatever the story is with Lorna Byrne himnextdoor, I wouldn't say that a bestselling author is necessarily a 'simple mind'?

    Quite simply if she doesn't mention the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, or claims to have new revelations from God, than any Christian, which means Christ follower, worth their salt is entitled to be wary, and they don't have to be either Einstein, The Pope, himnextdoor or lmaoplm to do so....

    Are you a follower or a fan himnextdoor, do you like her books?

    LOL. No! I think that she is a crank.


  • #118
    zeleny
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭zeleny


    PDN wrote: »
    And since different religions teach totally contradictory things about God, that in itself is reason enough for me to reject Lorna's teachings.

    There was an elephant, and a few of blind people were asked to touch it and describe it. So, the first blind man touched the elephant carefully, cleared his throat, and pronounced: "This creature is as hard as a rock, incredibly spiky and sharp!"
    Second blind man spoke like this: "I touched it carefully, but this is not the truth! Contrary, this creature is similar to pancake - soft, thin and flat!"
    The third one: "Sorry, but it is like a strong and massive pillar.."

    I came here to try to see if Lorna Birn is a liar.. As far, I don't see any (not-spiritual) evidence of this.. I am interested in her, not in spiritual explanations from Bible or other holly books according to which she must be a liar. (If she's not a liar, it's obvious from her book that she's not a lunatic.)


  • #119
    Webdigit
    Site Banned Posts: 3 ✭Webdigit


    zeleny wrote: »
    There was an elephant, and a few of blind people were asked to touch it and describe it. So, the first blind man touched the elephant carefully, cleared his throat, and pronounced: "This creature is as hard as a rock, incredibly spiky and sharp!"
    Second blind man spoke like this: "I touched it carefully, but this is not the truth! Contrary, this creature is similar to pancake - soft, thin and flat!"
    The third one: "Sorry, but it is like a strong and massive pillar.."

    I came here to try to see if Lorna Birn is a liar.. As far, I don't see any (not-spiritual) evidence of this.. I am interested in her, not in spiritual explanations from Bible or other holly books according to which she must be a liar. (If she's not a liar, it's obvious from her book that she's not a lunatic.)

    Indeed, the blind may lead the blind. Some of them feeling giraffes and donkeys and claiming them to be elephants.

    The blind should study the complete words of Christ for themselves.

    You won't find the Lorna's of this world ever recommending the complete words and teachings of Christ in the four Gospels. There's no money or book deals in that.

    There is only one true God.

    Thankfully for those Christians who study and believe the words of Christ, it enables the blind to see :

    "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me" - John 14:6

    “Watch out for false prophets who come to you in sheeps' clothing but inwardly they are ferocious wolves." - Matt 7:15

    “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.” Matt 15:13-14

    "To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given, and they will have an abundance of knowledge. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them. That is why I use these parables,

    For they look, but they don’t really see.
    They hear, but they don’t really listen or understand.

    This fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah that says,

    ‘When you hear what I say,
    you will not understand.
    When you see what I do,
    you will not comprehend.
    For the hearts of these people are hardened,
    and their ears cannot hear,
    and they have closed their eyes—
    so their eyes cannot see,
    and their ears cannot hear,
    and their hearts cannot understand,
    and they cannot turn to me
    and let me heal them.’

    But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear" Matt 13:10-16


  • #120
    protestant
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭protestant


    I was googleing about Lorna Byrne and found this forum. It was interesting to read your posts. I am protestant, born again spirit filled apostolic christian with BA in theology. One of my interests is NDEs and spiritual realm, visitations to heaven and hell etc. I have read thru all Lorna Byrne books in my mother language. And for me she looks like sincere in God who due lack of her health had chosed by God to do this work. She is vessel of God and not false. Our Lord have different assignments for His people and usually He do not chose wise people but those ones who are rejected by wise people as apostle Paul says in 1.Cor 1.
    I have just finished Christoph Wrembrek book on heaven and hell where he as catholic says that there is no hell and I agree with that this might made dogma in history what really do not exist. Lorna Byrnes books had been very encouraging to me as person who believes angels as Messengers of God based upon Heb 1:14.


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  • #121
    kelly1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    protestant wrote: »
    I was googleing about Lorna Byrne..........
    Hello, since you've read her books, does she mention Jesus at all?

    If so, what does she have to say about Him?


  • #122
    protestant
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭protestant


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Hello, since you've read her books, does she mention Jesus at all?

    If so, what does she have to say about Him?

    She mentioned Jesus in her book Stairway to Heaven. She said that, she believes Jesus is God. But still she explains there too that why she chose God instead of saying Jesus as the concept of God is understandable everyone.


  • #123
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    Good money in that whole " I talk to the spirits" nonsense.

    Sadly enough people out there pay to hear what this woman has to say.

    Dreadful way to bleed vunerlable people.

    If indeed it was the word of the Angels and god and that, should it not be free.


  • #124
    Effects
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    Here's Tubridy talking to her and promoting her book on the Later Late like she's the most normal person in the world and not just completely insane or else a fraud looking to profit from vulnerable/gulible people.
    From 52:30 http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10286142/


  • #125
    HermitTalker
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭HermitTalker


    the OLD TESTAAMENT gives us evidence of fake prophets and other cheats. They still abound abd use modern technology to separate the vulnerable from their money.


  • #126
    Effects
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    I have more of a problem with Ryan Tubridy giving them unchallenged air time.


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  • #127
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    Effects wrote: »
    Here's Tubridy talking to her and promoting her book on the Later Late like she's the most normal person in the world and not just completely insane or else a fraud looking to profit from vulnerable/gulible people.
    From 52:30 http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10286142/

    There is a also a third possibility, that she is in some way having visions and describing them as she experiences them.


  • #128
    protestant
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭protestant


    HermitTalker wrote: »
    the OLD TESTAAMENT gives us evidence of fake prophets and other cheats. They still abound abd use modern technology to separate the vulnerable from their money.

    Yes but OT gives also examples of angelic visitations and of how people where close to God. Everyone do not have to be materialists only earth orientented. Lorna just do not fit into traditional human made church box.


  • #129
    irish_karl
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭irish_karl


    I think Lorna is a lovely woman.....and I do believe she can communicate with the angels. You should go visit the Mind, Body Spirit exhibition at the RDS, theres loads of these people round there.


  • #130
    mezuzaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 176 ✭✭mezuzaj


    Lorna Byrne.. I always question people who make a living from exploiting faith. I don't know if she is real or not, but I DO know she makes money from her "gift". Now if she was a people who donated the profits from her books to Charity I might believe her.

    Very skeptical of people who make a profit from Religion.


  • #131
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭homer911


    Why are people so obsessed with Angels, Guardian Angels and communicating with them??:confused:

    Yes, Angels do God's bidding and have communicated with men, No, we do not have Guardian Angels - the idea is completely unbiblical and no, we cannot communicate with them unless they appear in bodily form. God calls us to worship and pray to Him and Him alone


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  • #132
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    homer911 wrote: »
    No, we do not have Guardian Angels - the idea is completely unbiblical

    Not unless you cut out the following verses and quite a few others, which would be a very unbiblical thing to do indeed :

    “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." Matt 18:10

    "The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and delivers them." - Pslam 34:7

    "Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?" Hebrews 1:14

    "My God sent his angel and shut the lions' mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.” Daniel 6:22


  • #133
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭homer911


    ryan101 wrote: »
    Not unless you cut out the following verses and quite a few others, which would be a very unbiblical thing to do indeed :

    “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." Matt 18:10

    "The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and delivers them." - Pslam 34:7

    "Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?" Hebrews 1:14

    "My God sent his angel and shut the lions' mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.” Daniel 6:22

    None of those verses indicate that that we have guardian angels - they do indicate that there are angels and they do God's bidding - show me a Bible verse that says I have a guardian angel personally allocated to me by God..:rolleyes:

    Take a read of http://www.gotquestions.org/guardian-angels.html


  • #134
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    try a
    homer911 wrote: »
    None of those verses indicate that that we have guardian angels - they do indicate that there are angels and they do God's bidding - show me a Bible verse that says I have a guardian angel personally allocated to me by God..:rolleyes:

    Take a read of http://www.gotquestions.org/guardian-angels.html

    I've already done so.
    Show me where scripture says you don't, or never will have any guardian angel allocated to you, as you claim.
    And if God does not allocate them, who does ?

    To try and claim that God allocating a Guardian angel is unbiblical is utterly wrong.

    A guardian is someone who watches over, guides or cares for someone.
    All the verses quoted clearly refer to that.

    "The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and delivers them." - Pslam 34:7
    "Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?" Hebrews 1:14
    "My God sent his angel and shut the lions' mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.” Daniel 6:22

    When or how they are allocated to us, we don't know, or need to know.

    The majority of Christian denominations believe in angles that can perform guardian duties to human beings.

    Christ was quite clear “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." Not some angels or any angels. I suppose if you ignore what the verses actually say, you could try to come up with complicated alternative interpretations, but they certainly won't be definitive in any way, and will contradict the other passages.

    I really would advise thanking guardian angels for their assistance in your prayers, rather than ignoring them.


  • #135
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭homer911


    ryan101 wrote: »
    try a

    I've already done so.
    Show me where scripture says you don't, or never will have any guardian angel allocated to you, as you claim.
    And if God does not allocate them, who does ?

    To try and claim that God allocating a Guardian angel is unbiblical is utterly wrong.

    A guardian is someone who watches over, guides or cares for someone.
    All the verses quoted clearly refer to that.

    "The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and delivers them." - Pslam 34:7
    "Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?" Hebrews 1:14
    "My God sent his angel and shut the lions' mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.” Daniel 6:22

    When or how they are allocated to us, we don't know, or need to know.

    The majority of Christian denominations believe in angles that can perform guardian duties to human beings.

    Christ was quite clear “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." Not some angels or any angels. I suppose if you ignore what the verses actually say, you could try to come up with complicated alternative interpretations, but they certainly won't be definitive in any way, and will contradict the other passages.

    I really would advise thanking guardian angels for their assistance in your prayers, rather than ignoring them.

    None of these references would say to me that God has appointed one individual angel to be my personal guardian and to watch out for me at all times. Clearly their are references in the Bible to angels being appointed to undertake specific tasks, but no reference to them being appointed to individuals.

    If God is omniscient, why would we need a guardian angel? To quote your own quoted verse, If Matthew 18:10 says that angels always have their faces/attention focused on God, how could they possibly be focusing their attention on us?? Angels are not omniscent, they cant be focused on God and be guardian angels 24x7. Personally I'd rather have an omniscient God looking after me, who knows how many hairs I have on my head, than any created being. This is so akin to "adoration of the saints" I can see how "logical" it may be to some groups of christians, but we need no mediator or intervenor with the Father other than Christ

    Your logic of arguing "show me where scripture says you don't.." is riduclous. I've never heard of theology by ommission. How about I argue that Jesus was an alien from the planet Krypton and then say "show me where scripture says he wasn't" to support my claim! Now that is unbiblical.

    I suggest you do more research, preferably based on the early greek meanings of the words used and the context in which they are used


  • #136
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Whether we have guardian angles or not is superfluous.
    The issues is how we treat them.
    Adoration and worship of them is forbidden in scripture. They are servants of God and created beings sent to minister to those who will inherit salvation.
    If we start worshipping them we are into the realms of idolatry.


  • #137
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    homer911 wrote: »

    Your logic of arguing "show me where scripture says you don't.." is riduclous. I've never heard of theology by ommission. How about I argue that Jesus was an alien from the planet Krypton and then say "show me where scripture says he wasn't" to support my claim! Now that is unbiblical.

    I suggest you do more research, preferably based on the early greek meanings of the words used and the context in which they are used

    But your whole argument hinges on your claim that guardian Angels are unbiblical, yet you have not quoted a single piece of scripture to support your claim, whereas in fact scripture itself, completely contradicts your claim, including the words of Christ himself. I really don't mind what your beliefs are about Angels, but your claims about them being unbiblical are incorrect, to say the least.


  • #138
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    Jace Careful Sharkskin wrote: »
    Whether we have guardian angles or not is superfluous.
    The issues is how we treat them.
    Adoration and worship of them is forbidden in scripture. They are servants of God and created beings sent to minister to those who will inherit salvation.
    If we start worshipping them we are into the realms of idolatry.

    Who is worshipping angels exactly, or who said anything about that ?


  • #139
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭homer911


    ryan101 wrote: »
    Who is worshipping angels exactly, or who said anything about that ?

    Ryan was advising thanking guardian angels! How? By praying to them?


  • #140
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    homer911 wrote: »
    Ryan was advising thanking guardian angels! How? By praying to them?

    The word pray in English means to ask, as in "pray tell" , asking someone, or thanking someone is not worshipping them. Worship requires words of worship. Hard to believe these basics have to be explained.


  • #141
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭homer911


    ryan101 wrote: »
    But your whole argument hinges on your claim that guardian Angels are unbiblical, yet you have not quoted a single piece of scripture to support your claim, whereas in fact scripture itself, completely contradicts your claim, including the words of Christ himself. I really don't mind what your beliefs are about Angels, but your claims about them being unbiblical are incorrect, to say the least.

    If there is nothing in the bible to support the idea of guardian angels, it doesn't automatically follow that there is something in the bible denying guardian angels. Have you heard of eisegesis? The idea needs to be explored in the context of what we know from the bible, not what we guess at, or read into the text..


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  • #142
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    homer911 wrote: »
    If there is nothing in the bible to support the idea of guardian angels, it doesn't automatically follow that there is something in the bible denying guardian angels. Have you heard of eisegesis? The idea needs to be explored in the context of what we know from the bible, not what we guess at, or read into the text..

    No guessing or reading into the text is required whatsoever.
    Again, given that quite a few passages supporting guardian angels, including Christ's own words, have already been provided, you've entirely failed at the first hurdle to prove your claim that there is nothing in the bible to support the idea of Guardian angels.


  • #143
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭homer911


    ryan101 wrote: »
    No guessing or reading into the text is required whatsoever.
    Again, given that quite a few passages supporting guardian angels, including Christ's own words, have already been provided, you've entirely failed at the first hurdle to prove your claim that there is nothing in the bible to support the idea of Guardian angels.

    If you dismiss my responses I can see that we are going to have to agree to disagree


  • #144
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭homer911


    ryan101 wrote: »
    The word pray in English means to ask, as in "pray tell" , asking someone, or thanking someone is not worshipping them. Worship requires words of worship. Hard to believe these basics have to be explained.

    Again we are going to have to agree to disagree. There is nothing in the bible to suggest angels or saints can hear our prayers, nor would they need to..

    And for your information, prayer is a form of worship just as we often thank God in songs of praise


  • #145
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    homer911 wrote: »
    If you dismiss my responses I can see that we are going to have to agree to disagree

    If you keep ignoring the scripture passages that say so, then I guess so.
    homer911 wrote: »
    Again we are going to have to agree to disagree.

    I don't mind agreeing to disagree, as faith in Christ is of far more importance, and I don't doubt your sincere faith at all. As Christ said, he who is not against the apostles is for them.
    homer911 wrote: »
    There is nothing in the bible to suggest angels or saints can hear our prayers, nor would they need to..

    You don't have to ask anyone to pray for you, but people do.

    Given the passages below, we'll have to agree to disagree about it not being in scripture.

    "Bless the LORD, O you his angels,
    you mighty ones who do his word,
    obeying the voice of his word!" - Psalm 103:20

    "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

    "So now, when you and Sarah prayed, it was I who brought and read the record of your prayer before the glory of the Lord, and likewise whenever you buried the dead. And that time when you did not hesitate to get up and leave your dinner to go and bury the dead, I was sent to you to test you. And at the same time God sent me to heal you and Sarah your daughter-in-law. I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who stand ready and enter before the glory of the Lord." - Tobit 12:12-15


  • #146
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭homer911


    ryan101 wrote: »
    Given the passages below, we'll have to agree to disagree about it not being in scripture.

    "Bless the LORD, O you his angels,
    you mighty ones who do his word,
    obeying the voice of his word!" - Psalm 103:20

    "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

    "So now, when you and Sarah prayed, it was I who brought and read the record of your prayer before the glory of the Lord, and likewise whenever you buried the dead. And that time when you did not hesitate to get up and leave your dinner to go and bury the dead, I was sent to you to test you. And at the same time God sent me to heal you and Sarah your daughter-in-law. I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who stand ready and enter before the glory of the Lord." - Tobit 12:12-15

    You are doing it again. There is nothing in these verses to suport the claim for guardian angels. There are angels, they serve attendance on God and do his bidding (they therefore can't be dancing attendance on us all the time).

    and finally, if there are guardian angels, they cant be said to be doing a very good job, or there would be no such thing as accidents or suicides


  • #147
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    homer911 wrote: »
    You are doing it again. There is nothing in these verses to suport the claim for guardian angels.

    It was addressed to your further claim :
    homer911 wrote: »
    There is nothing in the bible to suggest angels or saints can hear our prayers, nor would they need to..
    homer911 wrote: »
    There are angels, they serve attendance on God and do his bidding (they therefore can't be dancing attendance on us all the time).

    How do you know what God's bidding is, and how do you know how many angels , who are eternal spirits, were created ?
    homer911 wrote: »
    and finally, if there are guardian angels, they cant be said to be doing a very good job, or there would be no such thing as accidents or suicides

    You could argue exactly the same about God, as atheists often do.


  • #148
    Raphael Heals
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Raphael Heals


    This woman is no false prophet. Christians have been so deluded that they think Jesus is like the x-factor winner and we must only worship him. I love Jesus with as much of heart as is possible but I also love the archangels and angels and prophets and saints and God does not judge between them. The New Testament most follow is in many parts manipulated and false. The following is a link to the true teaching of Jesus and in it he advocates praying to The angels of air, water, sun and earth and also to The Earth Mother not only The Heavenly father. Also reminds us that "thou shalt not kill" means thou shalt not eat the flesh of animals.... Stop following dead scripture and find your own truth...

    Search : Essenes Gospel of Peace of Jesus Christ


  • #149
    kelly1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    ^ *Facepalm*


  • #150
    bestdj
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭bestdj


    Holy Crap, and I mean the holy part. Really, how do people really blindly believe all this religious crap? Just because you were brought up that way? Just because all your life people were pumping the crap into you? Unfortunately there is no way to convince a religious person that religion is the biggest brainwash of all time. Because it is just that, a brainwash. Not sure why I have clarity when it comes to religion, guess I was just born that way. I am agnostic, atheists say that is crap, a fence sitter. But I say they are just as bad as religious, brainwashed, not open to the possibilities. Let's face it, we don't know crap. We are like single cell creatures when it comes to figuring out where we came from. I like to think there is something we are missing and that maybe some day it will become clear.


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  • #151
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,859 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    bestdj wrote: »
    Holy Crap, and I mean the holy part. Really, how do people really blindly believe all this religious crap? Just because you were brought up that way? Just because all your life people were pumping the crap into you? Unfortunately there is no way to convince a religious person that religion is the biggest brainwash of all time. Because it is just that, a brainwash. Not sure why I have clarity when it comes to religion, guess I was just born that way. I am agnostic, atheists say that is crap, a fence sitter. But I say they are just as bad as religious, brainwashed, not open to the possibilities. Let's face it, we don't know crap. We are like single cell creatures when it comes to figuring out where we came from. I like to think there is something we are missing and that maybe some day it will become clear.

    MOD NOTE

    Please have a read of the Charter to get up to speed on what is expected of posters on this forum.

    Referring to peoples beliefs as 'crap' or 'brainwashing' is not acceptable.

    Please modify your posting to reflect that.

    Thanks for your attention.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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