Edision Optimuss OS 3 Plus

glic83 · 02-04-2015 10:53pm

Decided to go for one seeing as they have the 10% o , looking forward to it arriving next week

Mr Velo · 02-04-2015 11:30pm

Seriously considering getting rid of sky. Would anyone recommend this box as a replacement?

alias no.9 · 03-04-2015 12:36am

Mr Velo wrote: »

Seriously considering getting rid of sky. Would anyone recommend this box as a replacement?

Take a look at the FTA channel listings on the FTA Tuning Sticky, make a call for yourself how much of your viewing is subscription TV and how much is FTA. Then assess what you'd miss out on by losing the subscription channels and what would can make up with Netflix or some such alternative

Mr Velo · 03-04-2015 7:42am

alias no.9 wrote: »

Take a look at the FTA channel listings on the FTA Tuning Sticky, make a call for yourself how much of your viewing is subscription TV and how much is FTA. Then assess what you'd miss out on by losing the subscription channels and what would can make up with Netflix or some such alternative

Thanks a lot.
In terms of using the box, how does it stack up to Sky+?

bootser · 03-04-2015 8:18am

Mr Velo wrote:

Thanks a lot. In terms of using the box, how does it stack up to Sky+?

Hi, I'd be really interested in this also,if it was comparable to sky+ features! Is it a fairly easy install for a complete newbi?

g0g · 03-04-2015 8:30am

For those asking about Sky, I'm just making the switch myself. Have the new box and am about to cancel Sky. I never had sports or movie packages with Sky, so personally the only channel I'll miss is Eurosport and maybe a couple of channels like Nick Jr for the kids. Otherwise it gives me everything I want and I have more basic HD channels now than I did with Sky. Have a favourites list set up which includes both Saorview and satellite channels no problem at all. Have managed to set up recordings no problem. It takes a bit of getting used to and on expert mode there are a LOT of menus, but I'm definitely a fan so far. The gist from reading through these threads seems to be not to muck about with the box too much unless you know what you're doing to avoid having to reset anything.

bootser · 03-04-2015 10:18am

g0g wrote:

For those asking about Sky, I'm just making the switch myself. Have the new box and am about to cancel Sky. I never had sports or movie packages with Sky, so personally the only channel I'll miss is Eurosport and maybe a couple of channels like Nick Jr for the kids. Otherwise it gives me everything I want and I have more basic HD channels now than I did with Sky. Have a favourites list set up which includes both Saorview and satellite channels no problem at all. Have managed to set up recordings no problem. It takes a bit of getting used to and on expert mode there are a LOT of menus, but I'm definitely a fan so far. The gist from reading through these threads seems to be not to muck about with the box too much unless you know what you're doing to avoid having to reset anything.

Did you buy from freetv? Did it come ready to go or did it need some setting up? Did you get built in HDD or r u using external, I have an omega 1 tb media player I was thinking of using?

g0g · 03-04-2015 10:23am

Did you buy from freetv?

Yes

Did it come ready to go or did it need some setting up?

I have a relative who works in setting up dishes etc, but the box itself was ready to go and just plug in twin feed from dish and single feed from Saorview antenna.

Did you get built in HDD or r u using external, I have an omega 1 tb media player I was thinking of using?

I went with the built in one to keep it simple.

So far my only problem was doing something stupid with screen settings and the menu went massive so I couldn't see it on screen. I was easily able to download a fresh image (if that's the right word for it) from the FreeTV website, unzip it, stick it on a USB and re-install using the video on their website.

Since then the only real updating I've done is allowing the regular enough auto-updates to install and setting up my own list of favourites. I have no knowledge of Linux (don't think it's really needed for this) but am comfortable enough exploring menus and figuring out how things work. Once you plug your box into the home network with a data cable you just get the IP address and can log into it - the menus are clear there and work very smoothly.

THE ALM · 03-04-2015 10:24am

As has been mentioned a lot will depend on what you watch mostly, do you have a bit of technical know how and also do you have a decent broadband connection.

When I looked back there wasn't at great deal that we watched that wasn't covered by freesat or soarview so that wasn't a major consideration.

We live out in the country so fixed broadband isn't an option, luckily I had set up a pretty decent 4g connection and to get the most out of these boxes a decent connection is needed.

In fairness to Sky when you set up one of the boxes you are good to go and you will never really have to look at it again and everything pretty much works and is easy to navigate. With a linux box there is a bit of setting up to do and getting it running how you want and this is were a bit of know how is very useful and the more you do the more used to doing it you will become.

Undoubtedly something will go amiss or you will have to install the software again, I have probably done it 3 or 4 times at this stage and, although annoying, it not such a difficult process. The images for these are constantly being updated and little niggles ironed out so that each release becomes a bit more stable. As gOg says, once you have it running how you like you are probably better leaving well enough alone, this is were my problem lies ;-) and why my better half is always asking what am I doing now!

If you do have a problem I think, as this board shows, somebody will always try to help you out and point you in the right direction.

Fresh Pots · 04-04-2015 1:49pm

So is openatv the best image for this? Started a clean install of 4.2 on it but I'm getting frequent crashes when changing channels amongst things.

THE ALM · 04-04-2015 2:04pm

Fresh Pots wrote: »

So is openatv the best image for this? Started a clean install of 4.2 on it but I'm getting frequent crashes when changing channels amongst things.

I have only tried the opendroid image, which I didn't get on with at all before going back to openatv. This has has been running with no problems except when I tried to update kodi direct which put me in a bootloop.

I did a clean install with the image from here - http://images.mynonpublic.com/openatv/current/index.php?open=optimussos3plus and then added the plugins as I need which, as I say, has been running well.

I see openatv and opendroid are both working on 5.0 so I will leave mine as is until those come out. Openvix also have a image updated today if that might be worth a try.

Fresh Pots · 04-04-2015 2:10pm

THE ALM wrote: »

I have only tried the opendroid image, which I didn't get on with at all before going back to openatv. This has has been running with no problems except when I tried to update kodi direct which put me in a bootloop.

I did a clean install with the image from here - http://images.mynonpublic.com/openatv/current/index.php?open=optimussos3plus and then added the plugins as I need which, as I say, has been running well.

I see openatv and opendroid are both working on 5.0 so I will leave mine as is until those come out. Openvix also have a image updated today if that might be worth a try.

Yeah thats the image I started with, might start again.

THE ALM · 04-04-2015 2:14pm

Fresh Pots wrote: »

Yeah thats the image I started with, might start again.

Good luck. Assuming you have just got this, was it running ok when you first set it up?

Fresh Pots · 04-04-2015 2:21pm

THE ALM wrote: »

Good luck. Assuming you have just got this, was it running ok when you first set it up?

Didn't leave the freetv image on too long so not sure if it was freezing on changing channels. Its most likely something I installed.

THE ALM · 04-04-2015 2:26pm

Fresh Pots wrote: »

Didn't leave the freetv image on too long so not sure if it was freezing on changing channels. Its most likely something I installed.

Could be as mad lad and myself seem to have it running ok after a clean install.

04-04-2015 5:48pm

Yeah the freetv.ie backup was causing me a lot of problems.

A clean install with an image from the OpenATV website not a backup.

http://www.opena.tv/edision-images/download-328-edision-optimuss-os3-plus.html

You'll have to install and configure all your plugins , it will take time if you're not used to it but it's well worth it. mine runs perfect now smooth, no lag and no crashes yet.

Once you get it all up and running, make a backup.

Donkey OTae · 04-04-2015 7:45pm

Hi All, long time reader - first time poster :-)
I took the plunge & bought an Os3 during the week, I wonder could someone help with some very newbie questions about using ftp software with it please?
I'm connecting an ethernet cable from my pc to the box & filezilla is looking for,
1. Host (I guess that's the boxes IP is it? e.g 192.168.x.x)
2. Username (is this "Root" ? Or is there some other generic username & pw?)
3. Password (like above, is there some generic pw?)
4. Port (filezilla suggests "21", would that be right?)

If the details are right, I take it the Os3 should simply appear below am I right?
Apologies for all the questions, I'd have read the manual cover to cover but there isn't one.

THE ALM · 05-04-2015 9:28am

Donkey OTae wrote: »

Hi All, long time reader - first time poster :-)
I took the plunge & bought an Os3 during the week, I wonder could someone help with some very newbie questions about using ftp software with it please?
I'm connecting an ethernet cable from my pc to the box & filezilla is looking for,
1. Host (I guess that's the boxes IP is it? e.g 192.168.x.x)
2. Username (is this "Root" ? Or is there some other generic username & pw?)
3. Password (like above, is there some generic pw?)
4. Port (filezilla suggests "21", would that be right?)

If the details are right, I take it the Os3 should simply appear below am I right?
Apologies for all the questions, I'd have read the manual cover to cover but there isn't one.

Yip, put in the box ip, root for username and password is blank which should connect filezilla

THE ALM · 05-04-2015 6:11pm

Anybody recommend any saorview picons and I assume I would store them with the other picons?

STB. · 05-04-2015 9:50pm

THE ALM wrote: »

Anybody recommend any saorview picons and I assume I would store them with the other picons?

Have you got the pictures stored on the internal flash or a dedicated USB stick ?

This will determine where to run the telnet command from for symbolic link.

TELnet runs from Windows run command (telnet.exe), dos like windows opens.

o 192.168.0.XXX [xxx = IP of your box]
root
[password]

cd /picon/ [if internal flash] OR if on cd /media/usb/picon [if usb storage] THEN cut and paste and press return for each.

ln -s tv/3/3e.png 1_0_16_452_3E9_2174_EEEE0000_0_0_0.png
ln -s tv/t/tg4.png 1_0_16_450_3E9_2174_EEEE0000_0_0_0.png
ln -s tv/t/tv3ireland.png 1_0_16_44F_3E9_2174_EEEE0000_0_0_0.png
ln -s tv/r/rtetwohd.png 1_0_19_44E_3E9_2174_EEEE0000_0_0_0.png
ln -s tv/r/rteonehd.png 1_0_19_835_3EA_2174_EEEE0000_0_0_0.png
ln -s tv/r/rteone+1.png 1_0_16_83C_3EA_2174_EEEE0000_0_0_0.png

you will also have to upload to relevant folder (ie same as above - /media/usb/picon if using usb OR /picon if internal flash) on the box (using filezilla) the following picon files as the channels do not exist on 28.2E and so there are no picons.

RTE 1+1
RTE 1
RTE News Now

bored_stupid · 06-04-2015 6:34pm

Open atv 5.0 preview lads . 06.04.2015

http://images.mynonpublic.com/openatv/5.0/index.php?open=optimussos3plus

06-04-2015 6:53pm

Excellent, let us know how it works.

Take screen shots too if you can :-)

THE ALM · 07-04-2015 9:34am

I see 5.0 is meant to be running okay on the os3+ according to the openatv forum, has anybody tried iT yet?

THE ALM · 07-04-2015 8:26pm

I have upgraded to 5.0 and so far so good. Downloaded image to USB as normal and flashed the new image and restored settings when asked. No need for rescanning channels etc and all plugins got reinstalled.

Have a recording set for later so will see how that goes. In terms of looks it appears exactly the same as 4.2 so no real visual changes.

Hasn't loaded the full saorview EPG but expect that to rectify itself when it updates next.

Any hiccups I will post them up.

Fresh Pots · 07-04-2015 8:37pm

THE ALM wrote: »

I have upgraded to 5.0 and so far so good. Downloaded image to USB as normal and flashed the new image and restored settings when asked. No need for rescanning channels etc and all plugins got reinstalled.

Have a recording set for later so will see how that goes. In terms of looks it appears exactly the same as 4.2 so no real visual changes.

Hasn't loaded the full saorview EPG but expect that to rectify itself when it updates next.

Any hiccups I will post them up.

You wouldn't feel like making a backup would you?

THE ALM · 07-04-2015 8:51pm

Fresh Pots wrote: »

You wouldn't feel like making a backup would you?

Leave it with me

Ernest · 08-04-2015 9:45am

All this stuff in the last few days' postings is putting me right off the Edision Optimuss as an option. It sounds far too complicated for an ordinary user, not envisaging having to do write program code in order to get the thing to work.

Why can somebody not produce a simple combi-box with built-in hdd recorder just like the ones made by Philips and others that, up to fairly recently, could readily be bought in Power City and similar outlets to record television programmes from cable systems?? In that respect we seem to have gone backwards.

THE ALM · 08-04-2015 10:49am

Have created a backup for those interested - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qpgaglrni5n784i/AACTRKnc2deyEI5dfFvkMgDwa?dl=0

This backup was made after upgrading from 4.2 to 5.0 and I ran a software update, there was a further update this morning not included in this. If installing this image I assume that you may have to run a terrestrial scan to pick up the corresponding saorview channels in your own area.

In relation to this scan, I noticed that all the terrestrial providers are now listed and I don't remember this being the case when I originally tuned in the channels. When selecting the dvb-t2 tuner card the providers are listed for counties now so Tipperary, Galway, Wicklow etc are now listed and should be a matter of selecting the mast that you are pointing to and tuning in.

I use the original MyMetrix skin as I assume this is what openatv test and therefore I have left it as is. Did try a few different ones but have reverted back to MyMetrix.

I did set a timed recording on both sat and terrestrial and both recorded no problems. I run this at present connected to a wifi dongle and, again, this was picked up no problem when doing the upgrade.

There is an update for the kodidirect and tsmedia plugins which need to be run if you are using these.

THE ALM · 08-04-2015 11:00am

Ernest wrote: »

All this stuff in the last few days' postings is putting me right off the Edision Optimuss as an option. It sounds far too complicated for an ordinary user, not envisaging having to do write program code in order to get the thing to work.

Why can somebody not produce a simple combi-box with built-in hdd recorder just like the ones made by Philips and others that, up to fairly recently, could readily be bought in Power City and similar outlets to record television programmes from cable systems?? In that respect we seem to have gone backwards.

I agree that there is a bit of setting up but once it is there really should be no need to change anything. I am no programmer and wouldn't know one end of code from another.

I did come from using sky which just works and these take a bit of configuring to get the most from them and to get used to the way they operate.

I think the biggest issue with these, for me anyway, is always installing different plugins and trying different settings and running software updates all the time. Although I have just upgraded the software on this there was really no need to as it ran perfectly well as it was.

jca · 08-04-2015 11:35am

THE ALM wrote: »

I agree that there is a bit of setting up but once it is there really should be no need to change anything. I am no programmer and wouldn't know one end of code from another.

I did come from using sky which just works and these take a bit of configuring to get the most from them and to get used to the way they operate.

I think the biggest issue with these, for me anyway, is always installing different plugins and trying different settings and running software updates all the time. Although I have just upgraded the software on this there was really no need to as it ran perfectly well as it was.

If I buy one can I just plug it in and go? Are updates optional or will it keep nagging me to do updates?

08-04-2015 11:51am

No it won't nag for updates.

These boxes can be complicated and they're not really for the person who just wants to watch tv.

It's people who like tinkering and like to change the layout and tailor their Receiver to their liking is who these boxes are aimed at, and other things I won't get in to.

I have to say that now that I installed a clean non backup from Opeaatv website and non freetv.ie backup I've had absolutely no issues. The box is fast and no crashes yet.

jca · 08-04-2015 12:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No it won't nag for updates.

These boxes can be complicated and they're not really for the person who just wants to watch tv.

It's people who like tinkering and like to change the layout and tailor their Receiver to their liking is who these boxes are aimed at, and other things I won't get in to.

I have to say that now that I installed a clean non backup from Opeaatv website and non freetv.ie backup I've had absolutely no issues. The box is fast and no crashes yet.

I wouldn't mind the tricking to get it right part but it's the stability/ crashing issues that worry me. The last thing I need is the missus ringing me in work giving me a chawing that the box isn't working etc etc.... I think it's a single mans pursuit:pac:

08-04-2015 12:15pm

jca wrote: »

I wouldn't mind the tricking to get it right part but it's the stability/ crashing issues that worry me. The last thing I need is the missus ringing me in work giving me a chawing that the box isn't working etc etc.... I think it's a single mans pursuit:pac:

Well my mother is surviving with the Amiko Alien 2 and I need to spend the time setting it up from scratch, again , a clean image from OpeaATV and not a backup. This will probably cure some issues. Have to say the Amiko is pretty good but the Optimuss is much faster and noticeable straight away.

I have even set up the Odroid C1 in her bedroom and the droidmote app on her tablet so she can control the Odroid from that, so she's managing pretty well as well as netflix, so she can get the telly + netflix on the one box in her room.

The crashes I would say are mainly down to 3rd party plug-ins.

I find if you Telnet into the box and init 6 to reboot rather than hard reboot from the power switch, that should stop things getting worse.

But having known what I do now about these Linux receivers I would not have got the Amiko for my Mother but to be honest all the free to air receivers were either cheap rubbish or the interface was too complicated and rubbish with no proper EPG and she finds the Amiko very easy to use......when it works ! :-)

THE ALM · 08-04-2015 1:23pm

I would agree with what Mad_Lad has said and that it is when you start adding all the plugins etc. that you start getting the problems. I would imagine if you just just set this up for watching and recording tv and stripped out all the other plugins then it would probably run hassle free. It is the extra functionality these boxes provide that is a draw for some people but if you don't require it then leave it off.

I know reading through some of the posts that you would think that it is a daily occurrence and they are always crashing and throwing up errors whereas if it was set up and left alone I would think half the problems would be solved.

MYSTICA1 · 08-04-2015 4:27pm

TheAlm, Can I ask you the same question you asked earlier in the thread, when you got your box ..I got mine today! :-) What Plug-ins would you recommend and which ones should we avoid to prevent crashing issues? Complete Newbie here also .. No more Sky bills tho !

mass_debater · 08-04-2015 4:45pm

Ernest wrote: »

All this stuff in the last few days' postings is putting me right off the Edision Optimuss as an option. It sounds far too complicated for an ordinary user, not envisaging having to do write program code in order to get the thing to work.

Why can somebody not produce a simple combi-box with built-in hdd recorder just like the ones made by Philips and others that, up to fairly recently, could readily be bought in Power City and similar outlets to record television programmes from cable systems?? In that respect we seem to have gone backwards.

The problem is a basic FTA satellite or combo receiver does not get 7 day Epg, only now and next making it a little pointless. People use Linux boxes because they can run a Crossepg plugin which cracks the Sky Epg.

THE ALM · 08-04-2015 4:48pm

MYSTICA1 wrote: »

TheAlm, Can I ask you the same question you asked earlier in the thread, when you got your box ..I got mine today! :-) What Plug-ins would you recommend and which ones should we avoid to prevent crashing issues? Complete Newbie here also .. No more Sky bills tho !

The one that causes me most issues is kodidirect to be honest. It may be due to me connecting over wifi and I should really get some powerline adapters to see if that helps matters and sometimes when I run a software update for kodi it will put me in a boot loop. Trying to stream from this or tsmedia really doesn't work for me and I would let it download in the background, again this is more a wifi issue than anything else.

Webif should be installed as it makes organising channels so much easier when you connect via a laptop/pc.

Crossepg you will want for you epg data and this can be used in conjunction with cooltv guide although I uninstalled cooltv and use the default. Setting up the epg is important and I have this set up to save to a usb stick plugged into the rear of the box. I believe that if it is stored on an hdd that it will spin up the hdd every time you read it or update it so it is better on a usb memory stick.

The ondemand plugin will give you the rte, itv player etc and may be useful to have.

Will need to check what else I have when at home.

I stripped out a few plugins that install by default like all the languages and usb drivers for wifi dongles that I don't use.

I did try a few different skins and one or two caused me a few issues so I just left it on the default mymetrix and I changed a few colours and settings for this to how I would like it.

Fresh Pots · 08-04-2015 6:40pm

THE ALM wrote: »

Have created a backup for those interested - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qpgaglrni5n784i/AACTRKnc2deyEI5dfFvkMgDwa?dl=0

Hi, thanks for the backup. Unfortunately it just sends my box into a bootloop. Tried the factory image from the website and that loaded up ok so I'll just have to work with that.

THE ALM · 08-04-2015 8:08pm

Fresh Pots wrote: »

Hi, thanks for the backup. Unfortunately it just sends my box into a bootloop. Tried the factory image from the website and that loaded up ok so I'll just have to work with that.

No problem. Will take it down in case it causing problems for others

MYSTICA1 · 09-04-2015 3:56pm

Thanks for that TheAlm. Can I ask some probably very basic questions .. I have searched quite a bit but I can't seem to find suitable answers to these questions;
1. When I download a plug-in should it be saved to USB key or onto the box? How do you then access it to install it? Specifically looking to install picons for Saorview & 28.2 satellite FTA channels.
2. From what I have read, it is wise to do a backup of my system, settings etc. before downloading or changing any settings. How do you do this? What size would the backup be?
3. I am hoping to use NAS drive I already have to record to rather than the internal HDD option. My box picks up the NAS alright, but wants to format it in order to use it .. Is there a way to allow it to format only a share of the NAS for use by the box?

Only had an hour or two to play with the box last night but loving it so far !

Thanks for the help guys !

THE ALM · 10-04-2015 7:22am

MYSTICA1 wrote: »

Thanks for that TheAlm. Can I ask some probably very basic questions .. I have searched quite a bit but I can't seem to find suitable answers to these questions;
1. When I download a plug-in should it be saved to USB key or onto the box? How do you then access it to install it? Specifically looking to install picons for Saorview & 28.2 satellite FTA channels.
2. From what I have read, it is wise to do a backup of my system, settings etc. before downloading or changing any settings. How do you do this? What size would the backup be?
3. I am hoping to use NAS drive I already have to record to rather than the internal HDD option. My box picks up the NAS alright, but wants to format it in order to use it .. Is there a way to allow it to format only a share of the NAS for use by the box?

Only had an hour or two to play with the box last night but loving it so far !

Thanks for the help guys !

Picons I save on the USB as they are going to be accessed regularly. When you download plugins that should be them installed.

If you hit the blue button and select software on the left menu then there should be an option on the right to do a backup, from memory.

Don't have a nas to help you out with that one. Would have thought once you have the nas connected that you should be able to view the content similar to the way I pickup the wdtv live on mine.

NegativeOne · 11-04-2015 10:35pm

Is anyone else's fan sounding a bit loud? If the room is quiet I can here mine quite clearly.

.G. · 12-04-2015 10:43am

Mine doesn't even spin. I thought this was normal. Anyone else tell me if their's spins? Maybe my freezing issues are heat related. Still happening with a clean install of openatv but not as frequent.

NegativeOne · 12-04-2015 10:56am

superg wrote: »

Mine doesn't even spin. I thought this was normal. Anyone else tell me if their's spins? Maybe my freezing issues are heat related. Still happening with a clean install of openatv but not as frequent.

It woke me up the other night.(box is in the bedroom!) Its not on all the time and I probably wouldn't notice it when watching tv but when the box is on and the TV off it can be heard sometimes.

At first I presumed it was the hard drive I installed on the way out but I checked the fan speed in the menu and once I turned it off the noise went.

THE ALM · 13-04-2015 10:12am

Can't say that I have noticed any noise from the fan and actually checked this morning to see if it is spinning, which it is. You could take the cover off to see that it is fitted securely and not rubbing on something.

On another note - the OS3+ has been running great since upgrading to 5.0 and hasn't missed a beat since doing so.

Voyager II · 14-04-2015 4:31pm

About to get one of these. have had a couple of argos mini ips for a long time now super reliable stb combo, no bells or whistles though. Has anybody got an opinion what is the best image for these,When purchasing from freetv should I get the openatv (seems to be ok after update to 5.0)or enigma imageg.

.G. · 14-04-2015 6:54pm

Have to check fan more often. I've never seen it spin, box could be on for hours and it's doing nothing.

.G. · 15-04-2015 9:55am

THE ALM wrote: »

On another note - the OS3+ has been running great since upgrading to 5.0 and hasn't missed a beat since doing so.

Got a link to the clean version of 5? I can only find a download of 4.2 on the openATV website under Edision images.

Edit:- found it. It's here if anyone wants it.

THE ALM · 15-04-2015 10:55am

Voyager II wrote: »

About to get one of these. have had a couple of argos mini ips for a long time now super reliable stb combo, no bells or whistles though. Has anybody got an opinion what is the best image for these,When purchasing from freetv should I get the openatv (seems to be ok after update to 5.0)or enigma imageg.

Openatv seems to be the one to go with for these and would appear to be the most updated. Openatv is based on enigma2 so one in the same thing.

Not sure how up to date the freetv image is so I would download a recent one from the openatv site, superg posted a link, and install this. Should be just a matter of downloading the image, unzip it to a usb, turn off the os3+, plug usb into front usb port, turn on box. You will be prompted to press the channel- button on the front of the box and follow the prompts from here.

Voyager II · 15-04-2015 1:44pm

Thanks for clearing that up THE ALM

Edision Optimuss OS 3 Plus

Comments