FAS Work Placement Program

The_Honeybadger · 07-07-2010 11:17am

danbohan wrote: »

of course we should make the employer continuie to pay inflated and unrealistic wages until his company is bankrupt and then everybody be out of a job !

So your solution is to let everybody go and let the state become the paymasters for the private as well as the public sector??

There is a reason that rule is in place, to stop abuse of the program. I agree that wages here are too high, but sacking people and replacing them with WPP workers is not a realistic way forward.

Stark · 07-07-2010 11:35am

danbohan wrote: »

of course we should make the employer continuie to pay inflated and unrealistic wages until his company is bankrupt and then everybody be out of a job !

And how are more efficient companies supposed to compete with inefficient companies that are propped up with free State labour? I've seen Supervalu advertising for checkout staff on WPP. How is the Tesco across the road (making up an example) meant to compete with that? Result: Tesco shuts down and the taxpayer is left holding the bill for Supervalu's payroll. It's better to let Supervalu go the wall and let Tesco take its place while paying its own way.

RichardAnd · 07-07-2010 11:48am

Stark wrote: »

And how are more efficient companies supposed to compete with inefficient companies that are propped up with free State labour? I've seen Supervalu advertising for checkout staff on WPP. How is the Tesco across the road (making up an example) meant to compete with that? Result: Tesco shuts down and the taxpayer is left holding the bill for Supervalu's payroll. It's better to let Supervalu go the wall and let Tesco take its place while paying its own way.

Agreed. However, I highly doubt anyone would that a WPP placement at a checkout.

milkybar kid wk · 07-07-2010 11:56pm

donkey balls wrote: »

nope the employer gets someone to work for them for nothing as the person is getting paid from the dept of social welfare.

yeah i was wondering would the employer have to pay prsi, i no that they wont have to pay wages but didn no about prsi, i even rang fas to find out and they couldn tell me, so boards was second in line so i thought if the employer paid prsi of about 5500 then the social welfare would be getting there money for your dole paid then they'd just divide that money to pay you with and it wouldn cost our lovely government your wage if you get me, now i havnt read all the posts my question may well have been answered already sorry for inconvenience
tnx for reply donkey balls

maninasia · 08-07-2010 3:17pm

carwash106 wrote: »

Interesting post.

Lots of people made good points, really made me think.

heres my experience..
im around a month into my graduate wpp1, im a recently graduated web developer working with a company now. So far im not really learning that much and seriously considering looking for a different placement. however i probably wont because
the half of the day im sitting around im doing personal learning, im going online and practicing what i do. im lucky that way that my chosen profession there is a certain amount of self taught stuff you can do

it still count as experience on paper and on your cv and ill stick the 9 month because i can learn on companies time.

i was sitting around at home anyway doing nothing, living cheaply doesnt bother me as i have applied for the full dole(was getting 95) and applying for rent allowance( dont even know will i get that)

Im not doing the whole coming in early and staying late thing because at the end of the day im working here for free, the reason i have so much time is because there isnt much work for me at all.

At the end of the day a lot of companies abuse it but if you can find a way to take advantage of it( any advantage - building your cv etc) . It doesnt feel very nice to work without pay but i have no choice at the moment.

You should get paid while getting experience, advertise your services online and work with a virtual team based in UK or overseas.

carwash106 · 08-07-2010 4:42pm

maninasia wrote: »

You should get paid while getting experience, advertise your services online and work with a virtual team based in UK or overseas.

Hi

What do you mean exactly? how would i go about doing that?

RichardAnd · 08-07-2010 4:44pm

carwash106 wrote: »

Hi

What do you mean exactly? how would i go about doing that?

He means you could advertise your skills in web design freelance. In other words, do a few nixers. There are websites where you can bid to do commission work in computing though I do not know any off hand.

Tigs_ · 03-11-2010 11:15pm

While our country is left (after the real hard working in ireland have to face yet another emmigration),we are stuck with the corrupt and grossly negligent FF buffons,FAS is corrupt just like the unreformed dail and their jobs for the boys ways.Ireland needs to open up.
Fas discriminates against travellers,working class(recently laid off workers) and the long term unemployed(those they are supposed to be helping.
The generate no money yet take the nicest wad of cash of our government ministers every year WITHOUT FAIL.
Supervisors who are bullying and corrupt go unchallenged even though they are the face of FAS.
All FAS courses are outdated,and most courses would not be welcomed in an interview (fetac or not)due to the corruption with the FAS courses Fiasco(eg tutours illegally passing students over the years).
Most employers see FAS experience as FALSE experience.FAS's real function in the boom years was there to bolster the welfare wages,now this will be cut to the same level as the dole..it just needs to be finalised,at least they can say they have made some saving in the dail next term i suppose,while making the umemployment stats look okay..
Fas is a scam it only benefits the local businesses getting free labour and the supervisor and managment who get thier wages.
As a result FAS generate little revenue yet still get a name change and yet more euro..Be under no illusion.
And our good friend of FAS paul o toole (former minister for toursim,where the fecking tourist paul...?huh??nowhere..and get this he was handed this job in the boom years!!)FFS!
for **** sakes!Lotta problems with FAS and they still get a good budget,why is this not questioned more aggressively??Paul o Toole may i remind you all folks racked up 50 on expenses one year on TRAVEL.
Yet he didnt increase the level of tourism in ireland,and he had prime oppurtunity to do so in the year of that celtic boom.
Fas can seriously damage your c.v know before you go!

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97583

http://ciaranparker.com/2010/09/06/whats-in-a-name-2/

omukazy · 15-12-2010 1:26am

Deleted User wrote: »

Its simply more state interference in the correction, propping up businesses by paying for employees only prolongs the necessary correction that recessions bring.

It is disgusting by the way. Its less than minimum wage - why didnt they get rid of the minimum wage? Why didnt they reduce the dole across the board and those who take up the WPP1 scheme get paid more as an incentive to work.

Anyone working under this scheme will feel undervalued when they work alongside people who are paid in full.

Quite simply its damn hard to make ends meet when your on the dole and paying for transport to and from work. Its merely a govt incentive for the young to emigrate

I recently took up the wpp programme but i feel **** working alongside people paid over 30 thousand a year... sometimes i dont even wanna wake up in the morning... get up at 6.30 am back at home at 6pm, and i spend 7euros on transport every day , to be honest theresnt any incentive and i might quit soon. I feel exploited.. :mad: i knw i went in there for experience but its not worth it esp for long 9months. Its easy to say one would work for free until you actually do it then u knw what its all about. I feel like a joke at work.

donkey balls · 15-12-2010 1:40am

It must be a year since they rolled this farce out judging by the original op posting date, Does anyone know of someone who did these schemes and if so did they end up getting a job or did the experience help in any way?:rolleyes:

15-12-2010 5:40am

omukazy wrote: »

I recently took up the wpp programme but i feel **** working alongside people paid over 30 thousand a year... sometimes i dont even wanna wake up in the morning... get up at 6.30 am back at home at 6pm, and i spend 7euros on transport every day , to be honest theresnt any incentive and i might quit soon. I feel exploited.. :mad: i knw i went in there for experience but its not worth it esp for long 9months. Its easy to say one would work for free until you actually do it then u knw what its all about. I feel like a joke at work.

So ****ing quit.

donkey balls wrote: »

It must be a year since they rolled this farce out judging by the original op posting date, Does anyone know of someone who did these schemes and if so did they end up getting a job or did the experience help in any way?:rolleyes:

Yes. I did. ****ing hell, if you're not getting relevant experience, walk away. The company I had my placement with were great and provided excellent experience. Even if I hadn't been kept on after the placement finished, it would have been worth my while doing it.

Where are the people who finished their placement and feel they got shafted? It's a ridiculous question, since anyone is free to leave their placement at any time

RichardAnd · 15-12-2010 9:47am

omukazy wrote: »

I recently took up the wpp programme but i feel **** working alongside people paid over 30 thousand a year... sometimes i dont even wanna wake up in the morning... get up at 6.30 am back at home at 6pm, and i spend 7euros on transport every day , to be honest theresnt any incentive and i might quit soon. I feel exploited.. :mad: i knw i went in there for experience but its not worth it esp for long 9months. Its easy to say one would work for free until you actually do it then u knw what its all about. I feel like a joke at work.

This post illustrates the glaring problem with the WPP. Yes the experience will help a person get a job but working 40 hours a week for nothing is not healthy for the person in question and not good for society. It's not even very good for the employer either because an unpaid member of staff will feel under-appreciated, under-motivated and will likely not even respect nor feel grateful to their boss; none of these things will make a good employee.

I'm not a person with strong socialist views, in fact, I'm quite the opposite. However, one aspect of socialism I do agree with is that a person deserves to be paid for a day's work. The WPP needs to be looked at with the aim of getting the employer to contribute something to the WPP employee. Wanting to get paid for a job is not an unrealistic expectation, it's the very reason people work in the first place.

That being said, I have alot of respect for anyone who did take up a WPP placement. Working 9 months for nothing is something I simply wouldn't be able to do.

donkey balls · 15-12-2010 10:26pm

Did anyone see the RTE news just now they are going to extend these schemes into schools and other public jobs.:eek:

RichardAnd · 15-12-2010 10:58pm

donkey balls wrote: »

Did anyone see the RTE news just now they are going to extend these schemes into schools and other public jobs.:eek:

I'd heard something to that effect mentioned in the budget. I don't know how they expect a teacher to work for free along side people getting 35-50k a year. Recession or not and putting aside any issues of PS wages, if the government want more staff for the public service then those staff should be paid a fair salary.

Pete_Cavan · 15-12-2010 11:42pm

donkey balls wrote: »

It must be a year since they rolled this farce out judging by the original op posting date, Does anyone know of someone who did these schemes and if so did they end up getting a job or did the experience help in any way?:rolleyes:

I am working on the WPP and am currently half way through my placement. Finished college last May and there was no chance of me getting a proper paid job in this country so I am glad to have this. Of course it would be nice to get more money but the company I am with give me a few pound every now and then, as any company with an ounce of decency should do for participants. Obviously the programme would be a lot more attractive if the employer had to contribute something but I dont really think it is the biggest issue, I would rather work than sit at home all day for the same money.

IMO the main problems with WPP is there is no guarantee you will get a permanent job out of it. There should be a rule excluding employers from taking on someone new on the WPP unless they have hired the previous participant on a full time basis. This would actually get people into real employment and prevent employers from taking advantage of the programme and taking on people for free which devalues the worth of labour. In the current situation you can just hire a person for free with no job prospects which is akin to slavery. Also I think it is important to ensure that the company has not let a paid employee go in order to use the WPP otherwise employers can sack people and set up a WPP merry-go-round with a new person every nine months.

The WPP should allow workers to progress their career and encourage companies to grow, not exploit workers and allow employers to flout labour laws.

16-12-2010 10:48am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

IMO the main problems with WPP is there is no guarantee you will get a permanent job out of it. There should be a rule excluding employers from taking on someone new on the WPP unless they have hired the previous participant on a full time basis. This would actually get people into real employment and prevent employers from taking advantage of the programme and taking on people for free which devalues the worth of labour. In the current situation you can just hire a person for free with no job prospects which is akin to slavery. Also I think it is important to ensure that the company has not let a paid employee go in order to use the WPP otherwise employers can sack people and set up a WPP merry-go-round with a new person every nine months.

The bolded part is already true, see the Application Guidelines here

Stark · 16-12-2010 11:16am

Pretty much impossible to enforce that rule though I would think.

16-12-2010 11:28am

Stark wrote: »

Pretty much impossible to enforce that rule though I would think.

Pretty much impossible to enforce the minimum wage or 'cash in hand' jobs too. Like many laws, it relies on a handful of inspections and reporting from the public

Stark · 16-12-2010 11:39am

Most companies have natural staff turnover. How do you prove that someone who was brought on as part of the WPP process replaced someone who would otherwise have been hired as part of the standard replacement process? It's a lot easier to prove that someone has been paid less than the minimum hourly rate or didn't pay tax.

Riskymove · 16-12-2010 11:44am

Stark wrote: »

Most companies have natural staff turnover. How do you prove that someone who was brought on as part of the WPP process replaced someone who would otherwise have been hired as part of the standard replacement process?

You could monitor how many normally paid staff are being replaced by placement staff, there should be a limit

I'd heard something to that effect mentioned in the budget. I don't know how they expect a teacher to work for free along side people getting 35-50k a year. Recession or not and putting aside any issues of PS wages, if the government want more staff for the public service then those staff should be paid a fair salary.

AFAIK newly graduated teachers need to work a certain amount of days in a school, paid or unpaid, to become fully qualified...that is the incentive to do it for teachers

16-12-2010 11:51am

Stark wrote: »

Most companies have natural staff turnover. How do you prove that someone who was brought on as part of the WPP process replaced someone who would otherwise have been hired as part of the standard replacement process? It's a lot easier to prove that someone has been paid less than the minimum hourly rate or didn't pay tax.

Because redundancy is a well-defined process. Did you read the guidelines on the link?

Stark · 16-12-2010 11:56am

You mean the part about allowing redundancies as long as no one person is make specifically redundant? It also mentions nothing about natural wastage. Redundancy isn't the only way to leave a company.

16-12-2010 12:06pm

Stark wrote: »

You mean the part about allowing redundancies as long as no one person is make specifically redundant?

There's no direct displacement of an employee allowed, which is what we're discussing

Stark wrote: »

It also mentions nothing about natural wastage. Redundancy isn't the only way to leave a company.

What's "natural wastage"? There are 3 ways for an employee and company to part ways: redundancy, dismissal or the employee leaves. Dismissals and redundancies are subject to very strict guidelines. If the employee leaves, the employer is allowed take on a WPP participant if they so choose.

Stark · 16-12-2010 12:37pm

28064212 wrote: »

What's "natural wastage"? There are 3 ways for an employee and company to part ways: redundancy, dismissal or the employee leaves. Dismissals and redundancies are subject to very strict guidelines. If the employee leaves, the employer is allowed take on a WPP participant if they so choose.

Which effectively means one less job for someone who could have been hired on a salary and taken off the dole queue.

BeeDI · 16-12-2010 12:59pm

ThomasCreeby wrote: »

In a time of deep recession I am absolutely baffled how the government can sponsor a program where by companies are paid to take on new staff, who can then work for said companies for periods of up to 12 months while receiving only their dole as compensation for working the guts of a 40 hour week.
Slave labour and the reduction of the minimum wage is already here and its called the FAS Work Placement Program.
I'm 24 years old and I've been unemployed for over a year and frankly I find it disgusting. I'm really sick of logging onto the FAS website and finding that 90% of the jobs they now advertise are WPP schemes.
What I find even more insidious however is that a person can have their Jobseekers Allowance cut if they are not prepared to be forced by the government to work for less than the minimum wage???
This is the type of "innovation" is emblematic of the Irish Government's attitude towards young people trying to find work.
How many of the companies who have signed up for cheap labour are actually that poorly off that they aren't arsed paying a receptionist or an admin?
The whole WPP stinks to high heaven of incompetence and wasted money, not to mention offering zero financial incentive to get people back to work.
Does anyone else think this entire scheme is comically inept at trying to achieve what it set out to or am I alone in thinking its a pile of b*%$cks?

Cheers Boards,

Thomas

Thanks for the heads up. I'm needing to hire a few people for the long term. Must register straight away with FAS, and pick up a spot of free labour. Makes perfect business sense.

16-12-2010 1:07pm

Stark wrote: »

Which effectively means one less job for someone who could have been hired on a salary and taken off the dole queue.

Assuming the company can actually get a WPP participant. Keeping in mind that they can't advertise a vacancy in the same area at the same time. So they have to hope they can find someone suitably qualified to work for free, or else go back to the drawing board and start the hiring process from scratch. And if they do get one, the participant could leave at any time if they get a 'real' job-offer.

Not to mention the fact that there's no way for an employer to actually control it, since it's reliant on people choosing to leave their jobs. And you're making the assumption that an employer will always be hiring someone new to replace anyone who left, which is far from guaranteed in this climate

Stark · 16-12-2010 1:15pm

28064212 wrote: »

Assuming the company can actually get a WPP participant. Keeping in mind that they can't advertise a vacancy in the same area at the same time. So they have to hope they can find someone suitably qualified to work for free, or else go back to the drawing board and start the hiring process from scratch. And if they do get one, the participant could leave at any time if they get a 'real' job-offer.

I've worked for companies where the policy was to underpay people as much as possible until the employee copped on and either demanded a payrise or left. The loss of the employee and the disruption caused to the business (which was far from insignificant) was considered acceptable risk compared to the money saved by underpaying them for a few months. Imagine when you can get a few months of paying them nothing at all.

Atilathehun · 16-12-2010 1:26pm

As a registered employer, I just spent 30 minutes on the FAS website and on the WPP in particular. I have three positions to fill.
What strikes me is as follow.

1. Over 80% of CV's with applicants names visible are eastern Europeans.
2. Over 80% of anonomous CV's are eastern European. You see by the education details when you open the CV.

3. I'm curious about why there are so so few Irish CV's on there given the unemployment situation.

4. Just looking around in general at the available skill sets, I have to say, "not a lot" that's relevant. I'd damn well want to be getting a trial run before I'd be able to say a given person on the FAS web site is productively employable!

5. Where are the CV's from the unemployed graduates? Not very many there from what I can see!!

I'm afraid to say, I would pobably get a better selection of applicants if I put a notice up in my local Tesco store.

16-12-2010 1:27pm

Stark wrote: »

I've worked for companies where the policy was to underpay people as much as possible until the employee copped on and either demanded a payrise or left. The loss of the employee and the disruption caused to the business was considered acceptable risk compared to the money saved by underpaying them for a few months. Imagine when you can get a few months of paying them nothing at all.

What do you mean they under-paid them? As in they paid them less than was in their contract? How is that saving them money? All the employee has to do is take them to court.

Regardless, I'm not sure what relevance it has to the WPP. Are you saying some companies break the rules if they can get away with it? I'm sure they do, but that's hardly unique to the WPP

Stark · 16-12-2010 2:03pm

28064212 wrote: »

What do you mean they under-paid them? As in they paid them less than was in their contract? How is that saving them money? All the employee has to do is take them to court.

Underpaid as in paid less than what it would take to keep an employee based on market rates. You usually get at least a few months out of someone before they realise that they can achieve significantly better salaries elsewhere. Then when they come back giving out, you give them a partial counter offer and take your chances on them taking it or else wish them farewell and go back to the hiring board. Personally I think it is no way to do business (a consequence of the hiring/compensation managers being in a separate department to the managers who have their projects thrown way off track by the loss of qualified employees), but that's how it's done.

28064212 wrote:

Regardless, I'm not sure what relevance it has to the WPP. Are you saying some companies break the rules if they can get away with it? I'm sure they do, but that's hardly unique to the WPP

Responding specifically to your assertion that the risk of having an employee walk out will act as a disincentive to employers taking the piss.

Note that providing free labour to companies regardless of whether or not they need it is a distortion of the market. How are more efficient employers meant to compete against employers with Government subsidised labour? Most Irish companies aren't that hard up that they can't afford to hire someone if they need to. In most cases, if they're not hiring, it's because the demand for services isn't there.

i_love_toast · 16-12-2010 2:32pm

As a graduate with a very good degree in structural engineering from a top college i would love to have the chance to work in an engineering company for dole money. The last 8 months ive been sitting on my hole with no chance of a job and thank god ive only a month and a half left before I emigrate in January.

For the past 7 months I could of been out there getting experience in my field and giving back to the society that was very good to pay a large part of my college cost for me ( taxes...). However these Work Placement Programme are only offered to tradesmen who got a trade after their leaving cert or went into FAS during the boom years and got to comfortable earning the big buck.

Listen tradesmen, the boom years are over, get over it, Ireland is overloaded with excellently trained and skilled tradesmen and the vast majority will never get to put your skills to work again in Ireland. Either emigrate and put your very recognized and respected FAS degree's to use or stay on the dole for the years to come giving out about how the WPP is slave labor. Its your choice....

16-12-2010 2:36pm

i_love_toast wrote: »

For the past 7 months I could of been out there getting experience in my field and giving back to the society that was very good to pay a large part of my college cost for me ( taxes...). However these Work Placement Schemes are only offered to tradesmen who got a trade after their leaving cert or went into FAS during the boom years and got to comfortable earning the big buck.

Totally different programmes. The WPP is open to anyone

Atilathehun · 16-12-2010 2:50pm

i_love_toast wrote: »

As a graduate with a very good degree in structural engineering from a top college i would love to have the chance to work in an engineering company for dole money. The last 8 months ive been sitting on my hole with no chance of a job and thank god ive only a month and a half left before I emigrate in January.

For the past 7 months I could of been out there getting experience in my field and giving back to the society that was very good to pay a large part of my college cost for me ( taxes...). However these Work Placement Schemes are only offered to tradesmen who got a trade after their leaving cert or went into FAS during the boom years and got to comfortable earning the big buck.

Listen tradesmen, the boom years are over, get over it, Ireland is overloaded with excellently trained and skilled tradesmen and the vast majority will never get to put your skills to work again. Either emigrate and put your very recognized and respected FAS degree's to use or stay on the dole for the years to come giving out about how the WPS is slave labor. Its your choice....

Are you sure? Plenty of slap it up thumpers, who got seriously dubious FAS certification:( Drive around the country in the evening sun. Watch it shine of gable end walls of boom year houses. The quality of the plastering, is a sight to behold. In most cases, looks like a ploughed field.
As for the plumbing ............ :mad:
Proper trades men are still busy. The cowboys are kicking their spurs. many more cowboys than proper guys though.

i_love_toast · 16-12-2010 2:58pm

Atilathehun wrote: »

Are you sure? Plenty of slap it up thumpers, who got seriously dubious FAS certification:( Drive around the country in the evening sun. Watch it shine of gable end walls of boom year houses. The quality of the plastering, is a sight to behold. In most cases, looks like a ploughed field.
As for the plumbing ............ :mad:
Proper trades men are still busy. The cowboys are kicking their spurs. many more cowboys than proper guys though.

To be honest I only heard that FAS degree's in trades are well recognized and well received abroad. However this might not be the case?The people who can really tell i suppose are other tradesmen who have seen first hand the "work" by others...

professore · 16-12-2010 3:02pm

WalterMitty wrote: »

a lot of the work is basic admin stuff. You'd be getting a yearly figure of around 10k from social welfare for doing that while low level clerical workers in public sector doing same /similar work are striking over getting 30+k for them job. They should be gratefull for their jobs. Always happens in reccesions, those with jobs try to keep as much of their pay and conditions as possible even though highly qualified people are sitting on the dole and willing to do the highly paid jobs of those in emplyment, and in particular public sector emplyment.

If you're straight out of school / college with no experience you are worth much less to an employer than someone with experience.

professore · 16-12-2010 3:11pm

RichardAnd wrote: »

He means you could advertise your skills in web design freelance. In other words, do a few nixers. There are websites where you can bid to do commission work in computing though I do not know any off hand.

Yes there are loads of sites for that :

www.freelanceireland.ie
www.freelancer.com
www.flexitimers.com
www.allfreelance.com

The list goes on ... often the money's not great but better than € 0 per week and you can really get some great experience for your portfolio.

jimmyw · 16-12-2010 9:22pm

First of all its very easy for someone who is in a "proper" job to say why are them lazy dolers not getting up off their bum and go do this.But if you were actually in this very position you might think different.The thing about this scheme is that you are working the same hours as everyone else, but you are getting far less, plus all the extra expenses you have to pay too.Now if they were to have them work for less hours per week it might be better.The new scheme that's purposed whereby you work 19.5 hours per week plus 20 quid top-up working in the community sounds to me to be a better set-up.Yes you are getting experience, but its open to exploitation by employers.Not all but its still there.

Pete_Cavan · 16-12-2010 10:48pm

jimmyw wrote: »

First of all its very easy for someone who is in a "proper" job to say why are them lazy dolers not getting up off their bum and go do this.But if you were actually in this very position you might think different.The thing about this scheme is that you are working the same hours as everyone else, but you are getting far less

I look at this the other way. I am getting my job seekers benefit and it is the same amount whether Im on the WPP or not so I may as well go out there and work and get the experience. The way I see it I have nothing to lose but everything to gain from it.

People who take the kind of attitude displayed in the post I quoted are the kind of people who will still be unemployed in ten years time.

jimmyw · 17-12-2010 12:34am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I look at this the other way. I am getting my job seekers benefit and it is the same amount whether Im on the WPP or not so I may as well go out there and work and get the experience. The way I see it I have nothing to lose but everything to gain from it.

People who take the kind of attitude displayed in the post I quoted are the kind of people who will still be unemployed in ten years time.

I am not saying there are not merits to the scheme, but working the same hours as the other people for less money seems wrong to me.You can still get the experience with less hours.

i_love_toast · 17-12-2010 12:57am

jimmyw wrote: »

I am not saying there are not merits to the scheme, but working the same hours as the other people for less money seems wrong to me.You can still get the experience with less hours.

Well if it was 20 hours a week and the employer gave 40e for lunch and travel expenses i suppose peoples opinions might change on it.

but as a poster said a few posts ago, those who turn the nose up at it will be still unemployed in ten years time. If work does pick up and an employer see's that you've been constantly trained and getting work experience there is no doubt in his mind he will be employing you ahead of someone who has been out of work and doing nothing for 3-4 year say...

dunlops26 · 01-01-2011 9:33pm

I recently applied to a company that had a work placement advertised.While the company seemed ok i was expected to work the full 9 months and they weren`t prepared to shorten the time frame if they felt i was suitable.I have since been asked to attend a second interview!!.I personally think employers and fas are getting away very likely on all this.

9 months is far to long this should be flexible, a review after 4 months with a firm commitment to employment been given at a later date.

Your not entitled to F.I.S while on these schemes yet a staff doing the same job in the company on similiar money are.

Social welfare rates should not have been touched for these schemes.The cost of just getting to your placement everyday would eat up alot of you dole if you have to drive.

There has been an explosion of WPP vacancies on the fas site while actual vacancies jobs have disappeared.

Shelga · 02-01-2011 2:57am

Graduated in Mechanical Engineering in May. Worked full time in a library until December 16th. Saw a job advertised on Ibec, an unpaid engineering internship that I would be really interested in.

Am unable to receive SW payments while working in the internship unless I have been receiving the dole already for minimum of 3 months. Therefore, this job is effectively shut off for me, as I would be unable to live with zero income whatsoever for 9 months. My friend from college, who has been unemployed since we finished, would be entitled to keep receiving SW payments if she went for this job. WTF is that about?

I am effectively being punished for having had a job until 2 weeks ago. How the hell does this encourage me to find work experience. I am so angry about this, I feel like I just keep hitting a brick wall. The whole social welfare system is completely ****ed. Should I just sit on my arse til March and then start looking for work? Hard to ask what you can do for your country when you are not incentivised in the slightest.

So fcuking angry, it's like they want me to buy a one way ticket to Australia. :mad::mad::mad:

RichardAnd · 02-01-2011 1:21pm

Shelga wrote: »

Graduated in Mechanical Engineering in May. Worked full time in a library until December 16th. Saw a job advertised on Ibec, an unpaid engineering internship that I would be really interested in.

Am unable to receive SW payments while working in the internship unless I have been receiving the dole already for minimum of 3 months. Therefore, this job is effectively shut off for me, as I would be unable to live with zero income whatsoever for 9 months. My friend from college, who has been unemployed since we finished, would be entitled to keep receiving SW payments if she went for this job. WTF is that about?

I am effectively being punished for having had a job until 2 weeks ago. How the hell does this encourage me to find work experience. I am so angry about this, I feel like I just keep hitting a brick wall. The whole social welfare system is completely ****ed. Should I just sit on my arse til March and then start looking for work? Hard to ask what you can do for your country when you are not incentivised in the slightest.

So fcuking angry, it's like they want me to buy a one way ticket to Australia. :mad::mad::mad:

Why on earth did you leave a paid job? I admire your will to work in what you qualified in but to leave a paying job is absurd in these times. If I were you, I'd forget about the internship and get the job you left back. Whilst you're working you can do some mech engineering stuff by doing an open university course or something similar.

Shelga · 02-01-2011 1:33pm

RichardAnd wrote: »

Why on earth did you leave a paid job? I admire your will to work in what you qualified in but to leave a paying job is absurd in these times. If I were you, I'd forget about the internship and get the job you left back. Whilst you're working you can do some mech engineering stuff by doing an open university course or something similar.

I didn't leave voluntarily; I had a 6 month contract that wasn't renewed. I was looking for engineering jobs throughout the 6 months also.

RichardAnd · 02-01-2011 2:14pm

Shelga wrote: »

I didn't leave voluntarily; I had a 6 month contract that wasn't renewed. I was looking for engineering jobs throughout the 6 months also.

ahh, pardon me. It was just the phrasing of your words that led me to believe you'd left of your own will.

But the problem you described is one that bewilders me. A intuitive person is perfectly capable of finding an unpaid intern-ship without FAS's "help". In my opinion, the WPP should be scrapped and those who wish to work unpaid jobs simply be allowed to keep their dole payments. IT would be much simpler but of course, that's something FAS seem to be unable to do.

I'm sure I'll get strong words for this suggestion but have you considered simply doing the internship on the quiet and drawing the dole whilst you do? No one you work with would know you're not being paid and indeed, it would be none of their business anyway. I've known people who did unpaid work on the dole without any hassle.

Shelga · 02-01-2011 4:30pm

I have considered this but don't think I'd get away with it, as IBEC requires documentation from the SW office at the start of the internship, and vice versa. Guess I will keep applying to SMEs and grad schemes until my 3 months of doing nothing is up :rolleyes:

Great little country we have here.

dan_d · 02-01-2011 11:18pm

In my 5 months on the dole, Shelga (also an engineer)...it has become abundantly clear to me that in this country, the system is set up in such a way that if you make no attempt to try getting an education or a job or not bother trying to pull yourself up in any way, they can't throw money and courses at you fast enough.However if you have tried, been educated, maybe saved a bit of money for yourself or whatever, you can't access anything until you're made to feel like a complete waster for a long period of time.
The dole is supposed to exist to help people out when they fall on hard times, as so many have now.But instead the system runs in such a way that you're better off not to bother trying to make it in any other way first, because you'll get more out doing less. It has been the source of a huge amount of anger for me in recent months.

.

BostonB · 03-01-2011 12:43pm

professore wrote: »

Yes there are loads of sites for that :

www.freelanceireland.ie
...

The list goes on ... often the money's not great but better than € 0 per week and you can really get some great experience for your portfolio.

I don't think that site has ever worked properly. It never had projects on it.

managerman · 09-01-2011 11:25pm

went for an interview for a wpp last week, basically the guy wants me to break my bollix for nine months with no view to permanent work, just wants to exploit people with no jobs and pay them nothing..

im a quailified sparks and electrical engineer, been out of work since may. cant get a job at all, but trying very hard

zig · 10-01-2011 2:47am

dan_d wrote: »

In my 5 months on the dole, Shelga (also an engineer)...it has become abundantly clear to me that in this country, the system is set up in such a way that if you make no attempt to try getting an education or a job or not bother trying to pull yourself up in any way, they can't throw money and courses at you fast enough.However if you have tried, been educated, maybe saved a bit of money for yourself or whatever, you can't access anything until you're made to feel like a complete waster for a long period of time.
The dole is supposed to exist to help people out when they fall on hard times, as so many have now.But instead the system runs in such a way that you're better off not to bother trying to make it in any other way first, because you'll get more out doing less. It has been the source of a huge amount of anger for me in recent months.

.

5 months myself and I 100% know what you mean.

FAS Work Placement Program

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