How bad is bread, wraps etc for you when trying to lose fat

mada82 · 22-08-2015 9:38am #1

You hear off most fitness instructors to cut bread, pasta, rice etc when trying to lose fat.

Is there no room for these at all in your diet?

Personally I have found over the years that I do seem to put on a few pound when bread is in my diet.

Paddy Dreadful · 22-08-2015 9:52am

When trying to lose weight you have a budget of calories you must stay within so you in a deficit every day and lose weight , eating bread and any food is fine as long as you budget it within your calories allotment , here's the thing though . When eating to lose weight you will be hungry in lower calories and you need to try and keep hunger at bay . This is the very reason fruit and veg are recommended by fitness professionals to be the bulk of your diet , the volume of food you would get from 500 calories of fruit and veg will be much bigger than 500 calories of bread or carb type foods , lean cuts of meats such as chicken, fish and steak are also hunger busters , so yes your allowed any food but you need to be prepared to be hungrier in the same calories if you choose more carb type foods , 1 carb food that's very filling though are baked potatoes , probably because they aren't processed

mada82 · 22-08-2015 10:07am

I was thinking myself that the calorie deficit is the most important thing.

I'll log my diet into fitness pal and see if and sandwich can be squeezed in for lunch instead of salads. I can't stand salads.

yosser hughes · 22-08-2015 10:11am

Paddy Dreadful wrote: »

When trying to lose weight you have a budget of calories you must stay within so you in a deficit every day and lose weight , eating bread and any food is fine as long as you budget it within your calories allotment , here's the thing though . When eating to lose weight you will be hungry in lower calories and you need to try and keep hunger at bay . This is the very reason fruit and veg are recommended by fitness professionals to be the bulk of your diet , the volume of food you would get from 500 calories of fruit and veg will be much bigger than 500 calories of bread or carb type foods , lean cuts of meats such as chicken, fish and steak are also hunger busters , so yes your allowed any food but you need to be prepared to be hungrier in the same calories if you choose more carb type foods , 1 carb food that's very filling though are baked potatoes , probably because they aren't processed

That's very well explained. It's about as clear an explanation as I've seen.

Paddy Dreadful · 22-08-2015 10:17am

mada82 wrote: »

I was thinking myself that the calorie deficit is the most important thing.

I'll log my diet into fitness pal and see if and sandwich can be squeezed in for lunch instead of salads. I can't stand salads.

Yea , it's important to enjoy your food . Intermittent fasting is a good tool to help you aswell

The 5 or 6 meals a day thing is a myth and unnecessary , I feel more satisfied skipping breakfast and having just 2 big meals a day , lunch/dinner . It's very satisfying to eat big in a diet

mada82 · 22-08-2015 10:17am

Just thought of another reason why they recommend no bread etc. it's to stop your insulin (or something along those lines) spiking and preventing weight loss.

Does that theory carry much weight? Pardon the pun

Paddy Dreadful · 22-08-2015 11:03am

mada82 wrote: »

Just thought of another reason why they recommend no bread etc. it's to stop your insulin (or something along those lines) spiking and preventing weight loss.

Does that theory carry much weight? Pardon the pun

actually no that doesn't matter, what your referring to is called the Glycemic index and its overblown, there's only 1 rule of weight loss, being in a calorie deficit

as long as you in a deficit you will lose weight, you could be eating 10 slices of toast with jam and it would spike you insulin levels but if you were in a deficit , it wouldn't make 1 iota of a difference

mada82 · 22-08-2015 11:19am

You're telling me everything I want to hear. I'll have to give it a trial run.

mada82 · 22-08-2015 11:21am

So to throw out another one..... I can eat a bar of chocolate and not suffer weight gain once in a calorie deficit

Wizard! · 22-08-2015 11:28am

Paddy Dreadful wrote: »

When trying to lose weight you have a budget of calories you must stay within so you in a deficit every day and lose weight , eating bread and any food is fine as long as you budget it within your calories allotment , here's the thing though . When eating to lose weight you will be hungry in lower calories and you need to try and keep hunger at bay . This is the very reason fruit and veg are recommended by fitness professionals to be the bulk of your diet , the volume of food you would get from 500 calories of fruit and veg will be much bigger than 500 calories of bread or carb type foods , lean cuts of meats such as chicken, fish and steak are also hunger busters , so yes your allowed any food but you need to be prepared to be hungrier in the same calories if you choose more carb type foods , 1 carb food that's very filling though are baked potatoes , probably because they aren't processed

Not everyone agrees with that. Many nutritionists agree that eating fat is much better for your health than processed foods (bread, cereal, etc) and makes you feel full with less calories.
http://authoritynutrition.com/top-13-nutrition-lies-that-made-the-world-sick-and-fat/

El_Dangeroso · 22-08-2015 11:28am

mada82 wrote: »

So to throw out another one..... I can eat a bar of chocolate and not suffer weight gain once in a calorie deficit

Yes but the bulk of the foods in your diet are going to have to be filling so that you are not starving. Chocolate is fine, but it's not going to keep hunger away for very long per calorie compared to other foods.

syklops · 22-08-2015 11:31am

Paddy Dreadful wrote: »

1 carb food that's very filling though are baked potatoes , probably because they aren't processed

Depends how many you eat.

There was a guy on here a while back who was confounded as to why he could not lose weight. Worked out regularly and only ate healthy non-processed foods. A standard dinner for him was chicken breast, some carrots and 12 boiled potatos.

The mystery lives on.

mada82 · 22-08-2015 11:34am

Haha 12 potatoes

syklops · 22-08-2015 11:35am

Paddy Dreadful wrote: »

you could be eating 10 slices of toast with jam and it would spike you insulin levels but if you were in a deficit , it wouldn't make 1 iota of a difference

A slice of toast is about 200 calories. add the jam, thats 250 calories. Eat 10 of them thats 2500 calories. Unless you are doing serious workouts, thats no longer a deficit.

Just saying.

Stark · 22-08-2015 11:49am

mada82 wrote: »

So to throw out another one..... I can eat a bar of chocolate and not suffer weight gain once in a calorie deficit

Yes. Obviously chocolate is not the best thing for your overall health/nutrient needs but you can still lose weight while having the odd treat here and there as long as you keep your total calorie count under control.

Mr_Muffin · 22-08-2015 11:55am

They are fine.

Paddy Dreadful · 22-08-2015 7:50pm

syklops wrote: »

A slice of toast is about 200 calories. add the jam, thats 250 calories. Eat 10 of them thats 2500 calories. Unless you are doing serious workouts, thats no longer a deficit.

Just saying.

ok 3 ,5 , 7 whatever, the point I was trying to make was that high glycemic foods wont cause you to gain weight as long as your in a deficet

Paddy Dreadful · 22-08-2015 7:50pm

mada82 wrote: »

So to throw out another one..... I can eat a bar of chocolate and not suffer weight gain once in a calorie deficit

yes

Paddy Dreadful · 22-08-2015 7:55pm

Wizard! wrote: »

Not everyone agrees with that. Many nutritionists agree that eating fat is much better for your health than processed foods (bread, cereal, etc) and makes you feel full with less calories.
http://authoritynutrition.com/top-13-nutrition-lies-that-made-the-world-sick-and-fat/

I already kinda said that in my first post, but no food should be demonised ever
, obviously fruit veg and lean meats should make up the bulk of your diet but if you still have room in your diet for treats like, cake, beer, and pizza then its not going to be unhealthy

Paddy Dreadful · 22-08-2015 8:00pm

Wizard! wrote: »

Not everyone agrees with that. Many nutritionists agree that eating fat is much better for your health than processed foods (bread, cereal, etc) and makes you feel full with less calories.
http://authoritynutrition.com/top-13-nutrition-lies-that-made-the-world-sick-and-fat/

At the end of the day whats best for ones health is losing the weight, there are loads of people that start a health kick eating quote on quote so called heathly foods like nuts, coconut oil etc and they are simply still eating too much, exercise burns very little calories compared to the damage that can be done by eating too much, the biggest fat burner you have is your own body, you could lie in bed all day and you still burn calories

starlight09 · 22-08-2015 8:19pm

On the subject of bread, how would one rate home-made soda bread

Fraggle00 · 22-08-2015 8:21pm

syklops wrote: »

A slice of toast is about 200 calories. add the jam, thats 250 calories. Eat 10 of them thats 2500 calories. Unless you are doing serious workouts, thats no longer a deficit.

Just saying.

I thought that sounded a lot so I checked the bread in the kitchen. One of the loaves, thick cut toasting bread, 110 kcal per slice, the other one, 60 kcal per slice.
It'd take a lot of butter and jam to get that up to 260 kcal.

pepper61 · 22-08-2015 8:33pm

I think it is down to the individual. I can have a calorie deficit and follow any of the major diets like Weight Watchers at 1200 calories. But after the first 2 weeks I only lose about 1 pound in a month.
However when I cut out bread, starch, and highly processed foods I have lost 7 pounds per month for 8 months still eating 1200 calories per day with no hunger. I still have a square of dark chocolate per day and lots of fruit, veg, and lean protein and yoghurt for dairy. I track my food using myfitnesspal and it is working. The weightloss is self-motivating where I found standard 1200 calorie diets a waste of effort.
Lunches aren't as simple as a sandwich but now most places will do salad with a lean protein. Mostly I have chicken or fish but I order a cheeseburger without bun and with salad/ no fries for a change. It can be done still eating out with friends and not feeling deprived.

bucketybuck · 22-08-2015 8:39pm

syklops wrote: »

A slice of toast is about 200 calories. add the jam, thats 250 calories. Eat 10 of them thats 2500 calories. Unless you are doing serious workouts, thats no longer a deficit.

Just saying.

Isn't a slice of bread about 90 calories?

Paddy Dreadful · 22-08-2015 9:19pm

pepper61 wrote: »

I think it is down to the individual. I can have a calorie deficit and follow any of the major diets like Weight Watchers at 1200 calories. But after the first 2 weeks I only lose about 1 pound in a month.
However when I cut out bread, starch, and highly processed foods I have lost 7 pounds per month for 8 months still eating 1200 calories per day with no hunger. I still have a square of dark chocolate per day and lots of fruit, veg, and lean protein and yoghurt for dairy. I track my food using myfitnesspal and it is working. The weightloss is self-motivating where I found standard 1200 calorie diets a waste of effort.
Lunches aren't as simple as a sandwich but now most places will do salad with a lean protein. Mostly I have chicken or fish but I order a cheeseburger without bun and with salad/ no fries for a change. It can be done still eating out with friends and not feeling deprived.

Carbs are stored as glyogen in the muscles when you cut them you will lose more scale weight but its not fat its water, at the end of the day carbs and protein have the same calories per gram, but when you eat carbs you store more water

isolate · 22-08-2015 9:26pm

syklops wrote: »

A slice of toast is about 200 calories. add the jam, thats 250 calories. Eat 10 of them thats 2500 calories. Unless you are doing serious workouts, thats no longer a deficit.

Just saying.

Eh, no a slice of ordinary bread is 90 calores, add about 50 for generous butter!

Tar.Aldarion · 22-08-2015 9:43pm

batch bread is nearer 200, normal bread I've seen is ~90. Problem with bread is that people eat the whole loaf, has no nutrients and doesn't keep you satiated

Alf Veedersane · 22-08-2015 10:02pm

There is nothing wrong with bread as such. Take a wholemeal slice...comes in about 90 kcals.

But people usually have two with all sorts jammed between and a sandwich, especially one made up in some shop for a lunch, could have 400-500 kcals.

Again, not a problem if you're aware of that and you account for it over your day or week.

Ultimately, the two important factors getting your nutrition right are the calories in/calories out and the carb/protein/fat breakdown. That's why people love MyFitnessPal and have great success with it.

So no, there's nothing wrong with bread, per se. If you have 1 or 2 slices a day and you have a weight problem, it's not because of the bread.

pepper61 · 22-08-2015 10:16pm

Paddy Dreadful wrote: »

Carbs are stored as glyogen in the muscles when you cut them you will lose more scale weight but its not fat its water, at the end of the day carbs and protein have the same calories per gram, but when you eat carbs you store more water

That is true for the first few weeks of loss. But I haven't lost 50 pounds of water and gone down 6 sizes in the last 8 months by losing water.

Alf Veedersane · 22-08-2015 10:23pm

pepper61 wrote: »

That is true for the first few weeks of loss. But I haven't lost 50 pounds of water and gone down 6 sizes in the last 8 months by losing water.

Of course not.And it does depend

The problem isn't carbs. It's laekt because a lot of those highly processed foods associated with carbs are calorie dense.

mada82 · 23-08-2015 9:20am

Cheers for all the feedback. So if I stay in a calorie deficit this week while including a sandwich for lunch I could see a weight gain due to water?

At what point will the water weight remain constant?

Wizard! · 23-08-2015 5:33pm

Today's article

http://authoritynutrition.com/why-refined-carbs-are-bad/

Penny Tration · 23-08-2015 5:41pm

mada82 wrote: »

Cheers for all the feedback. So if I stay in a calorie deficit this week while including a sandwich for lunch I could see a weight gain due to water?

At what point will the water weight remain constant?

I don't know at what point water weight will remain constant, but I've lost 27lbs over the last 11-12 weeks, and eat a sandwich most days. To keep the calorie count relatively low, I use two slices of Brennan's Be Good wholemeal bread (60 cals per slice), no butter or spread, some chicken breast pieces (from a grilled chicken breast) at about 60ish calories, and about 50 calories worth of cheese. So it's working out at about 230 ish calories.

caveatemptor1 · 24-08-2015 11:42am

starlight09 wrote: »

On the subject of bread, how would one rate home-made soda bread

I usually make soda bread at least once per week and always though it was really healthy. I went on a bread course this weekend and it turns out, soda may not be as healthy as I thought.

The baker said that because there is no fermentation involved (only the bicarb/ acid reaction) to break down some of the gluten, it can be harder to digest than most yeast breads. Thats not necessarily a bad thing but for people with gluten intolerances or irritations, its actually one of the worst homemade breads for you. It is also quite dense in comparison with yeasted breads so nutritionally you need less of it. I wont stop making it but its very interesting!

Sourdough seems to be far the best option as the long process of making the starter culture and then slow proving of the bread means it is more digestible. Also the yeast used is naturally occurring and you usually make the culture yourself so you have control over what you put into it, It is much more work though.

The ultimate point he made is that any bread you make yourself at home will be better for you than a commercially produced sliced pan as you will know exactly what is going into it.

fussyonion · 24-08-2015 4:08pm

I've lost 12kg in 7 weeks and I've been having muesli/cereal for breakfast and a sandwich most days for lunch.

It's watching the amount of food overall that you're consuming which is key.
Eat three sensible meals a day, with healthy snacks, drink water and exercise.

ThunbergsAreGo · 24-08-2015 5:33pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with bread as such. Take a wholemeal slice...comes in about 90 kcals.

But people usually have two with all sorts jammed between and a sandwich, especially one made up in some shop for a lunch, could have 400-500 kcals.

Again, not a problem if you're aware of that and you account for it over your day or week.

Ultimately, the two important factors getting your nutrition right are the calories in/calories out and the carb/protein/fat breakdown. That's why people love MyFitnessPal and have great success with it.

So no, there's nothing wrong with bread, per se. If you have 1 or 2 slices a day and you have a weight problem, it's not because of the bread.

Isnt 400-500 calories on the low side for a lunch?

Diamond Doll · 24-08-2015 6:06pm

naughtb4 wrote: »

Isnt 400-500 calories on the low side for a lunch?

Can't really say that without taking it in the context of the other meals eaten on the day. E.g. if you're someone who eats little but often, with plenty of filling snacks throughout the day, 400-500 might fit into that perfectly. Or some people like a big breakfast and dinner but a light lunch.

Alf Veedersane · 24-08-2015 7:00pm

naughtb4 wrote: »

Isnt 400-500 calories on the low side for a lunch?

That depends on what you have over the course of a full day and on what your calorie allowance/target/goal is

_davidsmith_ · 02-09-2015 3:38pm

fussyonion wrote: »

I've lost 12kg in 7 weeks and I've been having muesli/cereal for breakfast and a sandwich most days for lunch.

It's watching the amount of food overall that you're consuming which is key.
Eat three sensible meals a day, with healthy snacks, drink water and exercise.

12kgs in 7 weeks?! 3.7 pounds a week, thats some amount of exercise i imagine

fussyonion · 02-09-2015 3:40pm

_davidsmith_ wrote: »

12kgs in 7 weeks?! 3.7 pounds a week, thats some amount of exercise i imagine

It averages at around 3lbs a week, yeah.
I'd exercise 4 times a week; just bike, treadmill and cross trainer at the moment.

granturismo · 02-09-2015 3:47pm

_davidsmith_ wrote: »

12kgs in 7 weeks?! 3.7 pounds a week, thats some amount of exercise i imagine

Calorie intake is the major factor.

02-09-2015 4:40pm

mada82 wrote: »

You hear off most fitness instructors to cut bread, pasta, rice etc when trying to lose fat.

Is there no room for these at all in your diet?

Personally I have found over the years that I do seem to put on a few pound when bread is in my diet.

A lot of bread actually has fat in it these days, to make it longer lasting.

The instructors ask you to avoid carbs cos they want your body to burn its own reserves, sugars and fats, to replace those carbs.

Tar.Aldarion · 02-09-2015 4:44pm

naughtb4 wrote: »

Isnt 400-500 calories on the low side for a lunch?

My lunch is 120 calories generally so I don't think so!

PinkLemonade · 02-09-2015 6:00pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

My lunch is 120 calories generally so I don't think so!

What % of your daily calorie intake is that? Seems extremely low to call a meal

fussyonion · 02-09-2015 6:45pm

PinkLemonade wrote: »

What % of your daily calorie intake is that? Seems extremely low to call a meal

It could be something like 3 cream crackers though which are filling.

Viduka · 03-09-2015 9:18am

Whatever else about bread, doesn't it lead to 'wheat belly', essentially a beer belly?

_davidsmith_ · 03-09-2015 10:19am

fussyonion wrote: »

It could be something like 3 cream crackers though which are filling.

3 cream crackers for a meal when your exercising seems like an incredibly small amount, if you starve yourself you will pile weight back on once you inevitably fall off the diet wagon. Everything should be in moderation and 70% of each plate should be vegtables, 100kcal meals are not sustainable long term.

Alf Veedersane · 03-09-2015 10:23am

_davidsmith_ wrote: »

3 cream crackers for a meal when your exercising seems like an incredibly small amount, if you starve yourself you will pile weight back on once you inevitably fall off the diet wagon. Everything should be in moderation and 70% of each plate should be vegtables, 100kcal meals are not sustainable long term.

They might not be considering it a 'meal' and they might not be starving themselves. Having something that's 120 kcals at lunchtime doesn't automatically mean they're in a massive calorie deficit across the whole day.

Penny Tration · 03-09-2015 10:32am

_davidsmith_ wrote: »

3 cream crackers for a meal when your exercising seems like an incredibly small amount, if you starve yourself you will pile weight back on once you inevitably fall off the diet wagon. Everything should be in moderation and 70% of each plate should be vegtables, 100kcal meals are not sustainable long term.

It's totally sustainable, once you're not in starvation mode (ie a massive calorie deficit) for the entire day.

I regularly skip breakfast, my lunch is approximately 230 calories. My dinner makes up for it because I prefer to eat very little during the day and a big meal at night.

Once the person isn't actually starving themselves, or at too big a calorie deficit, a tiny lunch is fine.

_davidsmith_ · 03-09-2015 10:35am

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

They might not be considering it a 'meal' and they might not be starving themselves. Having something that's 120 kcals at lunchtime doesn't automatically mean they're in a massive calorie deficit across the whole day.

She was originally referring to someone who was having a 100-200kcal lunch, and i dont think that 3 plain cream crackers is a lunch, this is only my opinion, and i know everyone is entitles to theirs. Iv done all the fad diets keto, shakes, carb cycling and the only thing thats sustainable is eating things that were grown in the ground or was alive at one point, not processed junk and diet fizzy chemical drinks and no fast food, no matter how healthy the option, things in a packet are designed not to go off therefore are filled with sugar or salt. And certainly not starving myself to see the scales plumet.

_davidsmith_ · 03-09-2015 10:37am

Penny Tration wrote: »

It's totally sustainable, once you're not in starvation mode (ie a massive calorie deficit) for the entire day.

I regularly skip breakfast, my lunch is approximately 230 calories. My dinner makes up for it because I prefer to eat very little during the day and a big meal at night.

Once the person isn't actually starving themselves, or at too big a calorie deficit, a tiny lunch is fine.

The op lost 7kgs in 12 weeks and does cardio 4 times a week, that is fairly drastic weight loss providing the op wasnt morbidly obese to begin with

How bad is bread, wraps etc for you when trying to lose fat

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