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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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    #1652
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    Galtee wrote: »
    If you really got it and had any sense of decorum, you would have stopped posting by now. :rolleyes:

    Sorry, but I see it as my public duty to combat the lies made up by certain posters.

    If you had any sense of self respect, you'd withdraw your previous accusations and apologise - still, I won't be holding my breath.


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    #1653
    Galtee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Galtee


    black francis wrote: »
    Sorry, but I see it as my public duty to combat the lies made up by certain posters.

    If you had any sense of self respect, you'd withdraw your previous accusations and apologise - still, I won't be holding my breath.

    This is ridiculous and way off topic. Lies? I assume you're referring to me pointing out that you are in no position to take the moral highground on cheap name calling and that you repeatedly using the word "sloganeering" as your slogan is entirely hypocritical? Let's try and get back on topic, my final word on your tangent is, if you feel hard done by or that there are lies then call in a mod, they may have the time to thrawl through the 100+ pages.


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    #1654
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,793 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    K-9 wrote: »
    Surely the people with 2 or 3 properties have taken twice or treble the hit?
    That just sounds like just tax somebody else stuff.
    Point taken, i wasnt aware of it since i dont have two or three properties.


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    #1655
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    Galtee wrote: »
    This is ridiculous and way off topic. Lies? I assume you're referring to me pointing out that you are in no position to take the moral highground on cheap name calling and that you repeatedly using the word "sloganeering" as your slogan is entirely hypocritical? Let's try and get back on topic, my final word on your tangent is, if you feel hard done by or that there are lies then call in a mod, they may have the time to thrawl through the 100+ pages.


    Naw, I don't need to go crying to a Mod - why would I feel hard done by - not like I was expecting anything other than a bit of wriggling to get out of the corner you painted yourself into when you were called out on your posts.

    Maybe, best to have a little think to yourself before you go posting accusations next time, eh?


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    #1656
    Galtee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Galtee


    K-9 wrote: »
    Yet we had an €18 Billion deficit last year, without Bank bail outs?



    Surely the people with 2 or 3 properties have taken twice or treble the hit?
    That just sounds like just tax somebody else stuff.

    Yes, but largely down to cumulative debt servicing, 5.4bn last year, 4bn the year before...


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    #1657
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,793 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    Hijpo wrote: »
    Im waiting for the day that someone finds a loophole that makes T.Ds exempt from paying this tax and the water charges that miraculously the average family cant avail of.

    I wont be paying it, i pay enough in USC/PRSI/PAYE and seem to get NOTHING back from any of it to ease the pressure when times get tough. We have to use a filter jug with the state of the water supplied where we live, why should i pay for sh** quality water that i cant survive on? I got off my arse and worked hard to afford my house, im still working hard to pay for my house, i didnt go to the government for a few bob to pay for my house, i didnt go on the dole and move into a council house, have 5 kids, claim for a medical card etc im not telling the social im living somewhere else when im really living with my partner so she can claim extra benfits.
    Were honest, me and my partner work hard for what we have, we are not living above our means, anything we have we can afford (at the moment)

    My life is financialy stable, i made it that way, yet i feel like the government arnt happy until im in arrears

    These water charges and house hold tax's feel like extortion, and im not happy about being made to pay out money under pressure. You dont see the church banging on peoples doors making them put two quid in there little brown envelopes.
    black francis wrote: »
    What a load of dribbley nonsense

    There will be a loophole, we do get bad quality water, iv worked since i left school at 18 and have only been on job seekers allowance (and thats all) for a few months until getting off my arse to get more work when it was available. iv never been behind on payments for anything in my life because i havent taken out loans for things i cant afford. iv been careful not to get myself in arrears and now im being punished because i have a few euro to save but the only way the government seem to acknowledge this effort is by taking it off me and the threat of a bigger fine if i have a problem with it.
    I resent your comment to my efforts as a load of dribbley nonsense.


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    #1658
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    Hijpo wrote: »
    There will be a loophole, we do get bad quality water, iv worked since i left school at 18 and have only been on job seekers allowance (and thats all) for a few months until getting off my arse to get more work when it was available. iv never been behind on payments for anything in my life because i havent taken out loans for things i cant afford. iv been careful not to get myself in arrears and now im being punished because i have a few euro to save but the only way the government seem to acknowledge this effort is by taking it off me and the threat of a bigger fine if i have a problem with it.
    I resent your comment to my efforts as a load of dribbley nonsense.


    As is your right - at least I attack the post as opposed to the poster - pity some others don't stick by that rule.

    Don't know what all the 'working class hero' stuff has to do with anything - we need to pay more taxes if we want to keep funding our country - you mightn't like it (and I don't either) but that's the reality - bitching and moaning about it won't change it. A broad and sustainable tax rate is clearly the best way (along with the streamlining of public service delivery) of attempting to extricate ourselves from this mess. A household tax is part of that, as is a broadcasting tax and a water tax.


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    #1659
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Galtee wrote: »
    Yes, but largely down to cumulative debt servicing, 5.4bn last year, 4bn the year before...

    That's the viscious circle we are in unfortunately. Hopefully the worst of the bank bail outs are over, Permanent TSB and the Credit Unions seem the only ones left so the 2 issues should start getting less blurred from now. Any extra borrowing from this year on will nearly all be due to the deficit.

    We've ran deficits of approximately €18 Billion for a few years now, disregarding bail outs. Saying:
    Eh, NO. It's entirely down to the bank bailout, the adjustments made in the last 5 budgets would have more than covered the deficit had it not been for the amount of debt we're servicing because of the bailout. I didn't think anyone was still disputing this

    just isn't correct. The massive deficits of the last few years are also part of the mounting interest bill and more to come. Saying it's entirely down to the bank bailout just doesn't add up, even if you believe it to be. Anyway, it's probably a discussion for another thread.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #1660
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,793 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    Im not making myself out to be a hero, im just stating that by doing things by the book and not getting yourself into needless difficulty your still not getting any reward. A tax on necessities such as water and a modest roof over your head is morally wrong, unless houses are alotted a certain amount of water units and charged anytime you go over the alotted amount fair enough, a household tax based on the square meters of the LAND your house is built fair enough. That will be fair and across the board.
    But as usual the government will introduce exemptions to all charges and loopholes for the wealthy like themselfs.


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    #1661
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,569 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    donalg1 wrote: »
    And was Mick Wallace there telling people not to pay, sure he would know all about that anyway seeing as he owes an absolute fortune to the state, but sure maybe he can withold some more employees pension payments to save himself some more money.

    Is he not the best friend and backer of one of your own idols, Ivan Yeates, who also owes loads of money ?
    Glass houses etc.


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    #1662
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,569 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Democratic Right wrote: »
    Wow, Took me ages to read through all the posts.
    To answer the thhread posted Yes I am , actually I already have.
    I've lived abroad and paying a household tax and indeed an occupancy tax is not unusual.
    The problem is it should have been introduced years ago, now people resent it.
    Anyway the way it has been framed it will have to be paid eventually because it and the penaltys that come with are a charge on the property, so paying now is cheaper in the long run.
    Yet another new F.G. invention with 5 posts in my opinion.
    What were you called previously ?


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    #1663
    Democratic Right
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭Democratic Right


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Yet another new F.G. invention with 5 posts in my opinion.
    What were you called previously ?
    Whoa cowboy, hold up!
    Having an opinion that is different to yours does not make me a F.G. invention.
    If you dont like my opinion then fine challenge it, but the persoanal attack?


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    #1664
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,793 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    Democratic Right wrote: »
    tayto lover wrote: »
    Yet another new F.G. invention with 5 posts in my opinion.
    What were you called previously ?
    Whoa cowboy, hold up!
    Having an opinion that is different to yours does not make me a F.G. invention.
    If you dont like my opinion then fine challenge it, but the persoanal attack?
    I think he thinks your a chap that got banned for trolling earlier in the thread.


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    #1665
    Democratic Right
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭Democratic Right


    Hijpo wrote: »
    Im not making myself out to be a hero, im just stating that by doing things by the book and not getting yourself into needless difficulty your still not getting any reward. A tax on necessities such as water and a modest roof over your head is morally wrong, unless houses are alotted a certain amount of water units and charged anytime you go over the alotted amount fair enough, a household tax based on the square meters of the LAND your house is built fair enough. That will be fair and across the board.
    But as usual the government will introduce exemptions to all charges and loopholes for the wealthy like themselfs.
    Fair point.
    I understand from next year on the property tax will be based on house size and value etc, and from what i've read about water charges there will be an allowance per home, there would have to be.
    I do totally agree that there has be certainty that everyone will pay, there cant be any sly exemptions , in fact we need to look at the whole tax system anyway and abolish a lot of the loopholes.
    I know we are on somewhat differing sides of the arguement but I can see where you are coming from on this.


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    #1666
    Democratic Right
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭Democratic Right


    Hijpo wrote: »
    I think he thinks your a chap that got banned for trolling earlier in the thread.
    But Im not trolling, no way.
    im not being sarcastic or nasty or provocative, just saying why Im paying.
    What others do is up to them.


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    #1667
    Galtee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Galtee


    K-9 wrote: »
    That's the viscious circle we are in unfortunately. Hopefully the worst of the bank bail outs are over, Permanent TSB and the Credit Unions seem the only ones left so the 2 issues should start getting less blurred from now. Any extra borrowing from this year on will nearly all be due to the deficit.

    Agreed.
    K-9 wrote: »
    We've ran deficits of approximately €18 Billion for a few years now, disregarding bail outs. Saying:



    just isn't correct. The massive deficits of the last few years are also part of the mounting interest bill and more to come. Saying it's entirely down to the bank bailout just doesn't add up, even if you believe it to be. Anyway, it's probably a discussion for another thread.

    The mounting interest bill, comes under the heading of debt servicing and that debt servicing is primarily down to bank bailouts. the deficit in 2007 was 1.7bn but at least then the debt was manageable. Since then the difference is down to the rise in the amount of debt being serviced. Budget adjustments would have covered the deficit since then otherwise. But you're right it's a topic for another thread.


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    #1668
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Democratic Right wrote: »
    Wow, Took me ages to read through all the posts.
    To answer the thhread posted Yes I am , actually I already have.
    I've lived abroad and paying a household tax and indeed an occupancy tax is not unusual.
    The problem is it should have been introduced years ago, now people resent it.
    Anyway the way it has been framed it will have to be paid eventually because it and the penaltys that come with are a charge on the property, so paying now is cheaper in the long run.

    Hello Ian64


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    #1669
    Democratic Right
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭Democratic Right


    mikom wrote: »
    Hello Ian64
    ??????????????
    What


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    #1670
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,611 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Democratic Right wrote: »
    Fair point.
    I understand from next year on the property tax will be based on house size and value etc, and from what i've read about water charges there will be an allowance per home, there would have to be.
    I do totally agree that there has be certainty that everyone will pay, there cant be any sly exemptions , in fact we need to look at the whole tax system anyway and abolish a lot of the loopholes.
    I know we are on somewhat differing sides of the arguement but I can see where you are coming from on this.

    There has been no announcement yet that I know of about how the property tax will be calculated. But we don't have to look far for ideas. Sinn Fein are operating domestic rates in the North and as an all island party I'm sure they would see the fairness of that being applied here. Plus 25 other EU countries have property taxes so again scope for taking ideas from them.


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    #1671
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Democratic Right wrote: »
    ??????????????
    What

    Question marks go at the end Ian.


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    #1672
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,569 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Democratic Right wrote: »
    Whoa cowboy, hold up!
    Having an opinion that is different to yours does not make me a F.G. invention.
    If you dont like my opinion then fine challenge it, but the persoanal attack?

    OK sorry about that Ian.


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    #1673
    Democratic Right
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭Democratic Right


    Em Can I clarify something, Im new to boards, I have not been a member before never mind been banned.
    I dont do trolling.
    I am not getting into arguements.
    I tend to go on a live and live way of life so if others disagree with me then thats their right, fair play and move on.


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    #1674
    Democratic Right
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭Democratic Right


    Sorry lads, but like how am I suppose to prove that Im not someone else?


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    #1675
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Is he not the best friend and backer of one of your own idols, Ivan Yeates, who also owes loads of money ?
    Glass houses etc.

    What has Ivan got to do with anything, and where did I say he was an idol of mine?


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    #1676
    Galtee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Galtee


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    There has been no announcement yet that I know of about how the property tax will be calculated. But we don't have to look far for ideas. Sinn Fein are operating domestic rates in the North and as an all island party I'm sure they would see the fairness of that being applied here. Plus 25 other EU countries have property taxes so again scope for taking ideas from them.

    Maybe we could adopt their whole tax system and not just their property tax? That seems like a great idea. And while we're at it, we should adopt the same prices they apply to property, goods and services too. :rolleyes:


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    #1677
    Galtee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Galtee


    Democratic Right wrote: »
    Sorry lads, but like how am I suppose to prove that Im not someone else?

    If you're at the same machine the mods will know by your IP. ;)


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    #1678
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    Democratic Right wrote: »
    Sorry lads, but like how am I suppose to prove that Im not someone else?


    Wouldn't worry about it - there's a common theme of name calling amongst the anti household charge group.

    If you don't agree with them you're either a FG'er, a sheeple or some other name.

    Playground stuff and a reflection of their inability to actually put up a proper counter-argument.


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    #1679
    Democratic Right
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭Democratic Right


    Maybe what we should all be protesting for is a proper, fair, and progressive tax system that is transparent.
    Instead of different groups opposing differnt parts of the tax system why dont we actually redesign it so that it is fit for purpose and fair.
    I am paying the household charge but I oppose the Broadcasting Charge, it seems we just keep adding little bits on to a bad system instead of actually just accepting that we need a tax system that is fit for the twenty first century , not one that has been around for a hundred or more years.


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    #1680
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,569 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    black francis wrote: »
    Wouldn't worry about it - there's a common theme of name calling amongst the anti household charge group.

    If you don't agree with them you're either a FG'er, a sheeple or some other name.

    Playground stuff and a reflection of their inability to actually put up a proper counter-argument.
    Or a "goon" !! Or was that us ?


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    #1681
    Democratic Right
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭Democratic Right


    black francis wrote: »
    Wouldn't worry about it - there's a common theme of name calling amongst the anti household charge group.

    If you don't agree with them you're either a FG'er, a sheeple or some other name.

    Playground stuff and a reflection of their inability to actually put up a proper counter-argument.
    Thank you.
    My problem is that some of their counter arguements do have some merit as the tax system itself is a large part of the problem.
    As for the banks etc I think that should be a seperate thread anyway.


This discussion has been closed.
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