WARNING - Be careful buying from Apple Ireland. Also - Advice desperately needed

Ryuzaki · 26-11-2015 4:07pm

Ryland Narrow Puppet wrote: »

In fairness, I think the over-riding advice here has been that Apple do come under Irish legislation. The OP was told otherwise elsewhere.

Yes this is exactly it. The point is they told me essentially lies in order to fob me off, or at least so it seems.

spyderski · 26-11-2015 4:48pm

OP, I've read most of this thread, and amount of babble is quite amazing. To clear up a few points:

1 Apple's European online retail operation is based in Cork. Not that this really matters, as EU legislation applies to your transaction, whether they are based in Cork, Amsterdam or Torremolinos! This is FACT and further discussion on this point is irrelevant and confusing.

2 Apple are the largest company in the world (by market cap.) and did not get there by having the appaling level of customer service you describe. In my experience over the past 15 years, with literally dozens of Apple devices, I have found their customer service to be the best I have ever experienced. Their support team in Cork are always incredibly helpful, and in my experience, if they are at fault they will put it right.

3 You continually state how young you are, surely you have someone who could give you guidance on this? Anyway, dealing with CompuB, Mactivate Etc. may have confused the issue, and you are now annoyed at this having gone on for months. The level of detail you have gone into regarding your interactions with various parties would confuse anyone. My advice would be to forget about your past issues with taking calls in college, days off work etc. and contact Apple again, simply stating that you have a laptop which they or their agent repaired in an unsatisfactory manner. Tell them you have given them ample opportunity to resolve the issue, and if you cannot get satisfaction you will go to a solicitor. Forget about free stuff, compensation etc. : get them to agree to replace the laptop. When/if they agree to this you can ask for some form of compensation, but prattling on about it at this stage muddies the waters.

4 In the unlikely event you do not get satisfaction, go to a solicitor. Forget about small claims etc. Any solicitor would love to take on this case (if it is as you describe) because Apple are clearly at fault and the solicitor will be assured of his costs when you win.

Take the emotion out of the situation and get it resolved, then get on with your life, youve already wasted enough time on something that could have been easily resolved with a little guidance. Delaying this issue messing around on boards is actually weakening your position. Deal with it TODAY. An hour or two will sort it one way or the other, hopefully with a replacement.

Sorry if I am being very direct, but I'm trying to get you to deal with this properly. Best of luck.

Time · 26-11-2015 4:54pm

Ryuzaki wrote: »

Oh wow really? Do you mind elaborating on it and explaining the whole experience and process of it to me and how it went? If needs be you could do so over PM and I'd be ever so grateful to hear about it.

I have done research and I don't mean to misinform, the idea is this is literally what I have been told from every party and the fact that you have had to point this out is exactly the point of this post. If I'm being told all of this you can only imagine the amount of people being told the same thing! This needs to be known and addressed.

Thank you so much for your time and reply though and I'd love to hear more!

I'll send you a PM now.

keithclancy · 26-11-2015 4:56pm

You bought it from the Applestore (Based in Hollyhill in Cork)

They are an Irish registered company. (It's written on the Invoice that was on the box)

You should have returned it under the 2 week policy

http://www.apple.com/ie/shop/help/returns_refund

Returns are subject to Apple's Sales and Refunds Policy. If you change your mind, you can return your Standard hardware to us within 14 calendar days of delivery.

You didn't need to do any of that stuff at all.

user1842 · 26-11-2015 5:25pm

How did you pay for your laptop? If it was via a debit/credit card, contact your bank and initiate a charge back:

http://www.consumerhelp.ie/chargeback

Then it will be Apple's problem

spyderski · 26-11-2015 5:38pm

user1842 wrote: »

How did you pay for your laptop? If it was via a debit/credit card, contact your bank and initiate a charge back:

http://www.consumerhelp.ie/chargeback

Then it will be Apple's problem

More misleading advice OP. You could and should have done this at the beginning, but there is a time limit of 120 days for chargebacks. As you state your purchase was many months ago this will not apply, so don't waste time on this route.

ConsumerHelp: Fiona · 26-11-2015 5:55pm

Ryuzaki wrote: »

I'm not sure if this is implying I'm lying or not and I will in no way to it the wrong way but allow me to share the brief experience I had with them.

I had just gotten off a 3 hour phone call with Apple which went literally nowhere other than them essentially saying "Come at me bro". This was prior to being escalated to the Customer Relations department. So the call ended in the runup to closing time for the Consumer Help Line.

I ring the help line (Got the number from http://www.consumerhelp.ie/) and I explain my situation. They say I am totally in the right and deserve my refund and so on BUT the guy said he wasn't totally sure as he was looking up Apple as I was speaking to him and he said they seemed to be an American based / established company. He politely asked me if it was okay for him to speak with his colleagues who were a lot more knowledgeable in this subject / area and that he would give me a callback the next morning. I thanked him for his time and effort and that was that.

The next morning he explains to me over the phone there is bad news.
The company is established outside of EU jurisdiction and my Consumer Rights as an Irish citizen / EU member were irrelevant. He said I can try but it's all going to be at the companies discretion and it could just go nowhere. He told me the small claims court would be the best option, to go to the SCC in Cork. He briefly explained the process / idea of it and that I would pay €20 for a consultation and letter or something.

I'm just going by what I'm told but I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong.
I'm a 19 year old student with no experience in anything like this so.. yeah

I appreciate all the support and contributions made though and I'm really learning a lot!

Hi Ryuzaki,

This is the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission replying to your post.

We would like to clarify that apple.com/ie has a registered address in Ireland therefore, products purchased on-line from this store are covered under consumer law in Ireland. On this basis, the product must be of reasonable and acceptable standard and quality, be fit for the purpose it was bought for and match the description given by the retailer or in any advertisements. If a product turns out to be faulty and you are not to blame for the fault, you have a number of options under consumer law and may be entitled to a repair, a replacement or a refund.

More information on your rights can be found at: http://www.consumerhelp.ie/faulty-goods

We note from your information that you have contacted Apple on a number of occasions but the issue remains unresolved. We would now suggest that you submit a formal complaint to Apple in writing, outlining the issues and how you would like to see the matter resolved. If the matter is not resolved to your satisfaction you may wish to consider using the small claims process.

Further details on how to make an effective complaint, including template letters and information on the Small Claims Process can be found through the following link: http://www.consumerhelp.ie/how-to-complain

If you would like to discuss the issue further please give our consumer helpline a call again on 1890 432 432 and identify yourself as the caller from boards.ie with the Apple issue.

Thanks,
Fiona

user1842 · 26-11-2015 6:02pm

spyderski wrote: »

user1842 wrote: »

How did you pay for your laptop? If it was via a debit/credit card, contact your bank and initiate a charge back:

http://www.consumerhelp.ie/chargeback

Then it will be Apple's problem

More misleading advice OP. You could and should have done this at the beginning, but there is a time limit of 120 days for chargebacks. As you state your purchase was many months ago this will not apply, so don't waste time on this route.

How is this misleading advice? 120 days is about 4 months. I cant find anywhere in the thread that states date of purchase.

whiterebel · 26-11-2015 6:10pm

user1842 wrote: »

How is this misleading advice? 120 days is about 4 months. I cant find anywhere in the thread that states date of purchase.

People keep suggesting chargeback as if it is the answer to all problems. We spoke to the bank about a chargeback last week, because we were charged by a Hotel, despite it being cancelled within the required time frame.
They want proof that we had contacted the bank, laying out our case, including the cancellation conformation etc.
They wanted any correspondence from the hotel.
Then, and only then they would consider a chargeback, which they would do, which also meant cancelling our credit cards, and re-issuing new ones.

L1011 · 26-11-2015 7:45pm

whiterebel wrote: »

Then, and only then they would consider a chargeback, which they would do, which also meant cancelling our credit cards, and re-issuing new ones.

This is your bank being deliberately obstructive to try stop you doing it. There is zero need to replace cards after a chargeback, I've done it enough times myself from double charges to bankrupt retailers and non-deliveries with no response. I would have refused to let them do that and threaten the Regulator on them.

whiterebel · 26-11-2015 8:26pm

L1011 wrote: »

This is your bank being deliberately obstructive to try stop you doing it. There is zero need to replace cards after a chargeback, I've done it enough times myself from double charges to bankrupt retailers and non-deliveries with no response. I would have refused to let them do that and threaten the Regulator on them.

They don't want the other party charging them back again. Makes sense.

L1011 · 26-11-2015 8:29pm

whiterebel wrote: »

They don't want the other party charging them back again. Makes sense.

Which would be criminal fraud if they did; and likely a DPA breach if they held the details.

It doesn't happen, basically. Bank were messing you over.

Ryuzaki · 26-11-2015 9:11pm

ConsumerHelp: Fiona wrote: »

Hi Ryuzaki,

This is the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission replying to your post.

We would like to clarify that apple.com/ie has a registered address in Ireland therefore, products purchased on-line from this store are covered under consumer law in Ireland. On this basis, the product must be of reasonable and acceptable standard and quality, be fit for the purpose it was bought for and match the description given by the retailer or in any advertisements. If a product turns out to be faulty and you are not to blame for the fault, you have a number of options under consumer law and may be entitled to a repair, a replacement or a refund.

More information on your rights can be found at: http://www.consumerhelp.ie/faulty-goods

We note from your information that you have contacted Apple on a number of occasions but the issue remains unresolved. We would now suggest that you submit a formal complaint to Apple in writing, outlining the issues and how you would like to see the matter resolved. If the matter is not resolved to your satisfaction you may wish to consider using the small claims process.

Further details on how to make an effective complaint, including template letters and information on the Small Claims Process can be found through the following link: http://www.consumerhelp.ie/how-to-complain

If you would like to discuss the issue further please give our consumer helpline a call again on 1890 432 432 and identify yourself as the caller from boards.ie with the Apple issue.

Thanks,
Fiona

Oh wow, awesome thanks so much for taking the time to post here and offer advice. This is most likely the exact route I will be following! Like I have said before I want to be open, honest and transparent about the whole situation and genuinely just want to take the right approach but I just genuinely didn't know which that was.

I will follow through on this ASAP and see how I get on. I appreciate your time! Thanks so much!

Ryuzaki · 26-11-2015 9:24pm

spyderski wrote: »

OP, I've read most of this thread, and amount of babble is quite amazing. To clear up a few points:

1 Apple's European online retail operation is based in Cork. Not that this really matters, as EU legislation applies to your transaction, whether they are based in Cork, Amsterdam or Torremolinos! This is FACT and further discussion on this point is irrelevant and confusing.

2 Apple are the largest company in the world (by market cap.) and did not get there by having the appaling level of customer service you describe. In my experience over the past 15 years, with literally dozens of Apple devices, I have found their customer service to be the best I have ever experienced. Their support team in Cork are always incredibly helpful, and in my experience, if they are at fault they will put it right.

3 You continually state how young you are, surely you have someone who could give you guidance on this? Anyway, dealing with CompuB, Mactivate Etc. may have confused the issue, and you are now annoyed at this having gone on for months. The level of detail you have gone into regarding your interactions with various parties would confuse anyone. My advice would be to forget about your past issues with taking calls in college, days off work etc. and contact Apple again, simply stating that you have a laptop which they or their agent repaired in an unsatisfactory manner. Tell them you have given them ample opportunity to resolve the issue, and if you cannot get satisfaction you will go to a solicitor. Forget about free stuff, compensation etc. : get them to agree to replace the laptop. When/if they agree to this you can ask for some form of compensation, but prattling on about it at this stage muddies the waters.

4 In the unlikely event you do not get satisfaction, go to a solicitor. Forget about small claims etc. Any solicitor would love to take on this case (if it is as you describe) because Apple are clearly at fault and the solicitor will be assured of his costs when you win.

Take the emotion out of the situation and get it resolved, then get on with your life, youve already wasted enough time on something that could have been easily resolved with a little guidance. Delaying this issue messing around on boards is actually weakening your position. Deal with it TODAY. An hour or two will sort it one way or the other, hopefully with a replacement.

Sorry if I am being very direct, but I'm trying to get you to deal with this properly. Best of luck.

I appreciate the response and understand/accept the amount of text might seem excessive.

Yep in relation to your first point I do understand this now, but obviously did not in the beginning. I have learned a lot so far since posting all of this.

I understand your experiences have been premier and pristine and all of my friends are of the same belief but I have had replies on Reddit and here saying they have had negative experiences too. I also had an ex-apple service rep PM me and giving his 2c. I am willing to admit they can do their job and do it well but this does not mean my negative experience should be overlooked entirely.

At the time of posting, both my parents were away. My mother had just got the all clear from treatment and so on and I'd like to avoid really any unnecessary hassle on my parents and try deal with this as independently as possible. I do appreciate and take on board your views though and I apologize for unnecessarily straining any points or views, this is my first time ever really posting much online. I would like to point out also like I have mentioned before, it isn't about the compensation and that's irrelevant, the point is my laptop is still broken and that is unsatisfactory to me.

I will look into this, I believe my father has a friend who is a solicitor and if worst comes to worst I can go to him and pick his brain about it but like I said I will avoid any unnecessary stress on my parents if at all possible.

Yeah I understand what you're saying and now that I have received "A little guidance" I am now pursuing my options!

No, no there is no need to apologize at all! I completely understand what you are saying and it makes total sense! I have taken on board everything you have said and I totally value the constructive feedback! Thanks! I'll let you know what comes of it!

Joseph · 26-11-2015 9:28pm

Hi OP,

I've read through your post and most of the replies. The replies are spot on, though I wouldn't bother writing a letter of complaint to Apple (this is going to drag things out a lot longer and you have already been more than amenable to the delays). I would call them in relation to your open issue and inform them that on the advice of your legal representative you are going to be taking legal action if an acceptable solution is not offered within 5 working days.

That will definitely escalate the call to the appropriate levels. Be absolutely firm and polite in your dealings with them that you completely understand that they have been trying to assist but unfortunately given the circumstances and amount of time that has elapsed you "have no other choice" than to file legal action by X (whatever day your 5 working day period ends on). Keep reiterating this.

Good luck.

seanaway · 26-11-2015 9:40pm

Ryuzaki wrote: »

Yeah I tried Consumer Rights but Apple is established in America and therefore conforms to American Consumer Right laws, namely that everything is at the discretion of the manufacturer.

Who gave you that guff? NONSENSE!

1. There is no consumer rights law in the USA
2. Your consumer rights can be used as you made the purchase in Ireland (I hope). Had you bought it in the USA you would have an issue but not like this
3. Under new EU consumer law you have a right to a replacement after ONE not Three repairs.

If you purchased it from Apple online then write to the online store and say you are making a consumer law claim and want a replacement.

If you bought it say at a retailer then tell the retailer same.

It is the POINT of PURCHASE where the claim is made NOT with the manufacturer. Simply state it was unfit for purpose when bought and has had 1 repair (or two in fact) which failed to resolve the issue.

THE END

Ryuzaki · 26-11-2015 9:40pm

Joseph wrote: »

Hi OP,

I've read through your post and most of the replies. The replies are spot on, though I wouldn't bother writing a letter of complaint to Apple (this is going to drag things out a lot longer and you have already been more than amenable to the delays). I would call them in relation to your open issue and inform them that on the advice of your legal representative you are going to be taking legal action if an acceptable solution is not offered within 5 working days.

That will definitely escalate the call to the appropriate levels. Be absolutely firm and polite in your dealings with them that you completely understand that they have been trying to assist but unfortunately given the circumstances and amount of time that has elapsed you "have no other choice" than to file legal action by X (whatever day your 5 working day period ends on). Keep reiterating this.

Good luck.

Hey, thank you for genuinely reading the post. That alone means a lot to me that you took the time out of your day!

The rep dealing with my case is scheduled to ring me on Monday I believe to see if I have sent in my complaint so he can close my case. Should I mention this to him? Should I say I'm taking legal action even if I haven't been in touch with the SCC at that stage ?(It just isn't possible tomorrow I have exams)

I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinion on my current dilemma.

Thank you so much for your response!

Ryuzaki · 26-11-2015 9:43pm

seanaway wrote: »

Who gave you that guff? NONSENSE!

1. There is no consumer rights law in the USA
2. Your consumer rights can be used as you made the purchase in Ireland (I hope). Had you bought it in the USA you would have an issue but not like this
3. Under new EU consumer law you have a right to a replacement after ONE not Three repairs.

If you purchased it from Apple online then write to the online store and say you are making a consumer law claim and want a replacement.

If you bought it say at a retailer then tell the retailer same.

It is the POINT of PURCHASE where the claim is made NOT with the manufacturer. Simply state it was unfit for purpose when bought and has had 1 repair (or two in fact) which failed to resolve the issue.

THE END

As stated before, this is the response given to me by the Consumer Right's helpline when I got a callback the next morning. I was actually in the car with my father on the way into college for a presentation we spoke on loudspeaker (Bluetooth radio) so we both heard what they had to say. I had no idea it was bogus and I assume my dad just took what the person who's job it was to deal with these issues knew what they were talking about, despite of his personal opinions.

Joseph · 26-11-2015 9:58pm

Ryuzaki wrote: »

Hey, thank you for genuinely reading the post. That alone means a lot to me that you took the time out of your day!

The rep dealing with my case is scheduled to ring me on Monday I believe to see if I have sent in my complaint so he can close my case. Should I mention this to him? Should I say I'm taking legal action even if I haven't been in touch with the SCC at that stage ?(It just isn't possible tomorrow I have exams)

I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinion on my current dilemma.

Thank you so much for your response!

No problem, it's infuriating when people are messed around by big corporations.

I would absolutely say this to the rep. Yes you can say you are going to take legal action, don't have to have sent in the SCC complaint to be able to say you are going to take legal action.

I imagine the conversation going something like this: Unfortunately, given the circumstances and the extended amount of time that has passed, under the advice of my legal representative I am going to be taking legal action if an acceptable solution cannot be offered within the next 5 working days. Something something you're not entitled to do that. I purchased this laptop through Apple Ireland and will be filing legal action on the 7th of December if an acceptable solution is not offered to me by close of business on 4th December.

They're going to keep telling you you can't do that or whatever, you just need to keep repeating, politely and firmly, the 2 bold-ed sentences above. Don't be surprised if you end up repeating this many times, I was once in Curry's repeating something similar for about 30 minutes after being messed about until they realised I wasn't going to back down.

Eugene Norman · 26-11-2015 10:01pm

This post actually sounds fantastically incoherent and unlike Apple.

If you buy a Mac from a retail store you will have to take it back there. If direct from Apple you just call them up and they will collect and have a statutory obligation for a year.

Hard to believe anybody advised the op that they had no rights because Apple are based in the US.

Ryuzaki · 26-11-2015 10:02pm

Joseph wrote: »

No problem, it's infuriating when people are messed around by big corporations.

I would absolutely say this to the rep. Yes you can say you are going to take legal action, don't have to have sent in the SCC complaint to be able to say you are going to take legal action.

I imagine the conversation going something like this: Unfortunately, given the circumstances and the extended amount of time that has passed, under the advice of my legal representative I am going to be taking legal action if an acceptable solution cannot be offered within the next 5 working days. Something something you're not entitled to do that. I purchased this laptop through Apple Ireland and will be filing legal action on the 7th of December if an acceptable solution is not offered to me by close of business on 4th December.

They're going to keep telling you you can't do that or whatever, you just need to keep repeating, politely and firmly, the 2 bold-ed sentences above. Don't be surprised if you end up repeating this many times, I was once in Curry's repeating something similar for about 30 minutes after being messed about until they realised I wasn't going to back down.

Thank you so much this is the exact type of guidance I'm ideally looking for. A conceptualization of a hypothetical situation really helps me understand what I should do and how to go about it. This has been extremely insightful and I really appreciate the time and effort you are giving me!

Ryuzaki · 26-11-2015 10:06pm

Eugene Norman wrote: »

This post actually sounds fantastically incoherent and unlike Apple.

If you buy a Mac from a retail store you will have to take it back there. If direct from Apple you just call them up and they will collect and have a statutory obligation for a year.

Hard to believe anybody advised the op that they had no rights because Apple are based in the US.

I appreciate the beat-down but I understand where you're coming from and respect your view.

It is unfortunate that you cannot believe that it is possible to have a negative experience with such a premium company like Apple and I was of the same opinion until recent times.

I have tried this solution numerous times, calling them and requesting it to be dealt with if that hasn't been clear enough and the last phone call I had with them I was told they cannot / will not do anything as the rattle isn't a significant hardware problem and won't hinder performance.

Thank you for your time and response! Everything and anything is appreciated and I'm open to all comments and views!

Joseph · 26-11-2015 10:10pm

Ryuzaki wrote: »

Thank you so much this is the exact type of guidance I'm ideally looking for. A conceptualization of a hypothetical situation really helps me understand what I should do and how to go about it. This has been extremely insightful and I really appreciate the time and effort you are giving me!

Cool, please let us know how you get on!

Don't feel guilty on the phone either, you're being polite, but firm and not backing down. The phone conversation may end without resolution, this is ok because they will more than likely have to escalate it to some sort of executive resolution team.

You may have to be the one who ends the call (they might have guidelines that say they can't be the ones who end it). Might go something like this:

You repeat many times what you have to do (bold sentences). They keep saying no no no you've no recourse. You say okay, no problem and say you are ending the call because no solution is being offered (phrase this politely) but that you will be following through on the legal action and sincerely hope that you hear from them by close of business next Friday with an acceptable solution.

Eugene Norman · 26-11-2015 10:12pm

Ryuzaki wrote: »

I appreciate the beat-down but I understand where you're coming from and respect your view.

It is unfortunate that you cannot believe that it is possible to have a negative experience with such a premium company like Apple and I was of the same opinion until recent times.

I have tried this solution numerous times, calling them and requesting it to be dealt with if that hasn't been clear enough and the last phone call I had with them I was told they cannot / will not do anything as the rattle isn't a significant hardware problem and won't hinder performance.

Thank you for your time and response! Everything and anything is appreciated and I'm open to all comments and views!

I've gotten Mac laptops replaced by Apple or their authorised retailers in a day.

But what's really odd is this.

At this point I just politely asked him for a refund on my laptop as it was still rattling with a crooked screen and to quote the technician (Someone who is qualified to examine, repair etc these products) that the laptop will "Never be perfect again" Unfortunately, Irish consumer laws do not apply to purchasing from Apple Ireland as they are established in the US so the refund or replacement is at the discretion of the Manufacturer

You don't quite say the Apple rep said that nonsense about consumer laws but it's implied. That seems odd to say the least.

Ryuzaki · 26-11-2015 10:14pm

Joseph wrote: »

Cool, please let us know how you get on!

Don't feel guilty on the phone either, you're being polite, but firm and not backing down. The phone conversation may end without resolution, this is ok because they will more than likely have to escalate it to some sort of executive resolution team.

You may have to be the one who ends the call (they might have guidelines that say they can't be the ones who end it). Might go something like this:

You repeat many times what you have to do (bold sentences). They keep saying no no no you've no recourse. You say okay, no problem and say you are ending the call because no solution is being offered (phrase this politely) but that you will be following through on the legal action and sincerely hope that you hear from them by close of business next Friday.

Awesome! This sounds like the exact plan I will be following as of now! That sounds like the most logical and fair solution to me as of yet!

I will most definitely be posting updates so people can see the resolution and how I dealt with this situation and it might provide some insight to people who find themselves in this situation (regardless of company) in the future!

I totally see what you mean by ending the call myself if needs be and that makes total sense! I wouldn't have thought to include saying that no solution is being offered. That's so helpful, thank you so much! Your kindness and insight is very much appreciated

Ryuzaki · 26-11-2015 10:17pm

Eugene Norman wrote: »

I've gotten Mac laptops replaced by Apple or their authorised retailers in a day.

But what's really odd is this.

At this point I just politely asked him for a refund on my laptop as it was still rattling with a crooked screen and to quote the technician (Someone who is qualified to examine, repair etc these products) that the laptop will "Never be perfect again" Unfortunately, Irish consumer laws do not apply to purchasing from Apple Ireland as they are established in the US so the refund or replacement is at the discretion of the Manufacturer

You don't quite say the Apple rep said that nonsense about consumer laws but it's implied. That seems odd to say the least.

I am glad that has gone well for you in the past and only wish it was the same for me.

The Rep from Apple told me that it was at Apples discretion as to what to do and informed me their course of action would be to continue to try repair the unit. He told me before he could even consider trying to file for a replacement and get it approved that it would need to go through 3 repairs and still be faulty.

Joseph · 26-11-2015 10:18pm

Ryuzaki wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought to include saying that no solution is being offered.

No acceptable solution is being offered

Good luck! Looking forward to hearing it's resolved.

Ryuzaki · 26-11-2015 10:21pm

Joseph wrote: »

No acceptable solution is being offered

Good luck! Looking forward to hearing it's resolved.

Ah, of course. Chances are I'll have this all open for reference during the call!

Thank you so much! I'll let you know of any and all updates!

What is your opinion on emailing complaints to the head of departments etc? I understand others have advised against it but on the reddit thread a lot of people recommended this course of action? Is this just an unnecessary and indirect route to take? Or is it more fair and less serious? I'm just curious to get opinions! Thanks again!

foggy_lad · 26-11-2015 10:27pm

OP People telling you NOT to write a formal complaint to the retailer are giving you very poor advice!

People telling you to engage a solicitor or other paid legal representation are giving you poor advice that could cost you very dearly if you don't get your costs awarded against Apple in the District court, this is a real possibility as any judge will be aware that the small claims court is specifically for claims like yours and may see you taking this to a full court hearing as wasting the courts time.

Steps you should take tomorrow are

Write a letter of complaint to Apple in Ireland, use the heading "Formal Complaint".
Download forma for the small claims court and fill them in or visit your local courthouse and seek advice from the registrar, ask if they have time to talk to you first and prepare to go back when they are not so busy.
Wait for a response from Apple which should be to offer a full refund or a new replacement, Tell them in the initial letter what has been attempted so far and what you are seeking now.
If Apple are not playing ball finish off the small claims court forma and send them into the Court with the fee. then wait to hear from the Courts

Ryuzaki · 26-11-2015 10:33pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

OP People telling you NOT to write a formal complaint to the retailer are giving you very poor advice!

People telling you to engage a solicitor or other paid legal representation are giving you poor advice that could cost you very dearly if you don't get your costs awarded against Apple in the District court, this is a real possibility as any judge will be aware that the small claims court is specifically for claims like yours and may see you taking this to a full court hearing as wasting the courts time.

Steps you should take tomorrow are
Write a letter of complaint to Apple in Ireland, use the heading "Formal Complaint".

Download forma for the small claims court and fill them in or visit your local courthouse and seek advice from the registrar, ask if they have time to talk to you first and prepare to go back when they are not so busy.

Wait for a response from Apple which should be to offer a full refund or a new replacement, Tell them in the initial letter what has been attempted so far and what you are seeking now.

If Apple are not playing ball finish off the small claims court forma and send them into the Court with the fee. then wait to hear from the Courts

Hey, thanks so much for your view on it! If I was to go down this route, what should I say when the Rep calls me? That I have filed a complaint and to close my case? or to keep the case open until the issue is fully resolved? He said originally if I file a complaint there is no guarantee it will be addressed but I suppose with the given information and the course of action I am intending on taking included, it should get due attention?

Please don't see me as being totally unwilling and incompetent, I just would like to understand the situation I am in and go about it in the most logical and informed way possible.

Thank you for your input it is most certainly appreciated!

foggy_lad · 26-11-2015 10:48pm

Tell the rep that you are writing to Apple and making a formal complaint as they have not provided a proper repair after at least 2 attempts and now are not replacing with a new laptop or offering a full refunding as you are entitled to.

Tell them you will accept a brand new(not refurbished) replacement or a full refund or you will let the small claims court deal with the matter.

Do not engage with them any further as they are not interested in your rights, they are only working on what they can save their employer.

foggy_lad · 26-11-2015 10:50pm

ConsumerHelp: Fiona wrote: »

Hi Ryuzaki,

This is the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission replying to your post.

We would like to clarify that apple.com/ie has a registered address in Ireland therefore, products purchased on-line from this store are covered under consumer law in Ireland. On this basis, the product must be of reasonable and acceptable standard and quality, be fit for the purpose it was bought for and match the description given by the retailer or in any advertisements. If a product turns out to be faulty and you are not to blame for the fault, you have a number of options under consumer law and may be entitled to a repair, a replacement or a refund.

More information on your rights can be found at: http://www.consumerhelp.ie/faulty-goods

We note from your information that you have contacted Apple on a number of occasions but the issue remains unresolved. We would now suggest that you submit a formal complaint to Apple in writing, outlining the issues and how you would like to see the matter resolved. If the matter is not resolved to your satisfaction you may wish to consider using the small claims process.

Further details on how to make an effective complaint, including template letters and information on the Small Claims Process can be found through the following link: http://www.consumerhelp.ie/how-to-complain

If you would like to discuss the issue further please give our consumer helpline a call again on 1890 432 432 and identify yourself as the caller from boards.ie with the Apple issue.

Thanks,
Fiona

This is the only post you need to look at!

Joseph · 26-11-2015 10:52pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

OP People telling you NOT to write a formal complaint to the retailer are giving you very poor advice!

People telling you to engage a solicitor or other paid legal representation are giving you poor advice that could cost you very dearly if you don't get your costs awarded against Apple in the District court, this is a real possibility as any judge will be aware that the small claims court is specifically for claims like yours and may see you taking this to a full court hearing as wasting the courts time.

Steps you should take tomorrow are
Write a letter of complaint to Apple in Ireland, use the heading "Formal Complaint".

Download forma for the small claims court and fill them in or visit your local courthouse and seek advice from the registrar, ask if they have time to talk to you first and prepare to go back when they are not so busy.

Wait for a response from Apple which should be to offer a full refund or a new replacement, Tell them in the initial letter what has been attempted so far and what you are seeking now.

If Apple are not playing ball finish off the small claims court forma and send them into the Court with the fee. then wait to hear from the Courts

He doesn't need to write a formal complaint letter & I wasn't advising him to engage legal representation. This is small claims court business, maximum potential cost is 25 euro.

I'm not talking about going to the District court, and I don't think anyone else mentioned it.

On your second step, don't know why bother they have no obligation to give you advice and OP is clearly within his rights to file a SCC complaint. Waste of time and effort.

On step 3/4, from OPs posts Apple are not playing ball already. OP has spent months trying to deal with them, no point in drawing out the process even further.

Joseph · 26-11-2015 10:53pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

This is the only post you need to look at!

This is a generic response by ConsumerHelp (no offense Fiona).

Joseph · 26-11-2015 10:59pm

Ryuzaki wrote: »

What is your opinion on emailing complaints to the head of departments etc? I understand others have advised against it but on the reddit thread a lot of people recommended this course of action? Is this just an unnecessary and indirect route to take? Or is it more fair and less serious?

I think this is a lot of unnecessary effort that is going to bring in other channels, you are already in touch with a rep with an open case that has a long history. IMO you should continue to communicate with this rep who should escalate this appropriately.

foggy_lad · 26-11-2015 11:03pm

Joseph wrote: »

He doesn't need to write a formal complaint letter & I wasn't advising him to engage legal representation. This is small claims court business, maximum potential cost is 25 euro.

I'm not talking about going to the District court, and I don't think anyone else mentioned it.

On your second step, don't know why bother they have no obligation to give you advice and OP is clearly within his rights to file a SCC complaint. Waste of time and effort.

On step 3/4, from OPs posts Apple are not playing ball already. OP has spent months trying to deal with them, no point in drawing out the process even further.

It is always good to show that you have given the respondent one final chance to resolve the issues by informing them in writing and giving a final ultimatum.

Some poster mentioned the district court and also engaging a solicitor/legal representation, I never attributed that to you.

As for asking the Court registrar for advice on making your claim and what you need they usually like to be helpful and usually give such advice freely if they are not busy. and you are correct they do this without any obligation at all!

All the OP has so far are phone calls and empty v erbal promises etc, having a written letter is something that can show the judge that the OP has been very reasonable in giving the company every opportunity to provide redress!

foggy_lad · 26-11-2015 11:06pm

Joseph wrote: »

I think this is a lot of unnecessary effort that is going to bring in other channels, you are already in touch with a rep with an open case that has a long history. IMO you should continue to communicate with this rep who should escalate this appropriately.

escalated to some other section who stall things for 6 months or a year before apple claim their Warranty has expired.........!

Better to get the ball rolling on a proper resolution now rather than wait another few months for Apple to get the finger out!

Joseph · 26-11-2015 11:32pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is always good to show that you have given the respondent one final chance to resolve the issues by informing them in writing and giving a final ultimatum.

Agreed, informing the rep on the phone with the deadline is the final chance and ultimatum.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Some poster mentioned the district court and also engaging a solicitor/legal representation, I never attributed that to you.

Apologies, must have missed the post that referred to the District court.

foggy_lad wrote: »

As for asking the Court registrar for advice on making your claim and what you need they usually like to be helpful and usually give such advice freely if they are not busy. and you are correct they do this without any obligation at all!

Cool. I think their advice will be generic though.

foggy_lad wrote: »

All the OP has so far are phone calls and empty v erbal promises etc, having a written letter is something that can show the judge that the OP has been very reasonable in giving the company every opportunity to provide redress!

If the OP needs anything written for the SCC, which should stand on it's own legs anyway - it's black and white, could just request call logs through DPC.

foggy_lad wrote: »

escalated to some other section who stall things for 6 months or a year before apple claim their Warranty has expired.........!

Better to get the ball rolling on a proper resolution now rather than wait another few months for Apple to get the finger out!

It will get escalated to some sort of executive team, can more or less guarantee it and with the firm deadline of 5 working days it won't stall for 6 months. Much more likely to stall for that long by going down the route of sending letters.

foggy_lad · 26-11-2015 11:44pm

Have you some connection with Apple or CompuB That you can make guarantees about their service levels?

The OP has already received the best advice on this thread and wasting more time on the phone to apple is just WASTING MORE TIME.

Joseph · 27-11-2015 12:11am

foggy_lad wrote: »

Have you some connection with Apple or CompuB That you can make guarantees about their service levels?

The OP has already received the best advice on this thread and wasting more time on the phone to apple is just WASTING MORE TIME.

Of course I've no connection to the related companies. If I did I probably would have offered a solution rather than advising the OP to make a SCC complaint.

Writing a letter - 1 hour, sending it - 20 minutes, waiting for a response - 4/6 weeks.

Talking to them on the phone - 30 minutes, waiting for a response before deadline - 1 week.

A quicker resolution? Priceless.

For everything else, there's time wasting suggestions.

foggy_lad · 27-11-2015 12:12am

Joseph wrote: »

Of course I've no connection to the related companies. If I did I probably would have offered a solution rather than advising the OP to make a SCC complaint.

Writing a letter - 1 hour, sending it - 20 minutes, waiting for a response - 4/6 weeks.

Talking to them on the phone - 30 minutes, waiting for a response before deadline - 1 week.

A quicker resolution? Priceless.

For everything else, there's time wasting suggestions.

Bless your faith in Apple

Joseph · 27-11-2015 12:14am

foggy_lad wrote: »

Bless your faith in Apple

I own no Apple products. I place my 'faith' in knowing companies like avoiding litigation.

foggy_lad · 27-11-2015 12:22am

They don't give a damn about threats of courts and solicitors etc as they know 99.9% never follow up on their threats and even if they do the company just have to offer some small concession to throw them off track yet again.

the OP has got the best advice from Consumer Help: Fiona on this thread and some others and there is nothing more to be added.

Joseph · 27-11-2015 12:29am

foggy_lad wrote: »

They don't give a damn about threats of courts and solicitors etc as they know 99.9% never follow up on their threats and even if they do the company just have to offer some small concession to throw them off track yet again.

the OP has got the best advice from Fiona on this thread and some others and there is nothing more to be added.

If they don't give a damn about litigation, why would they give an equal or greater amount for a letter of complaint?

Fiona's advice was generic ConsumerHelp advice.

OP is free to take whatever advice or combination of advice he thinks is best, no need for you to make judgement on that.

chocice94 · 27-11-2015 1:38am

Ryuzaki wrote: »

I believe it was both parties who ended up providing this information. There was a lovely chap who worked at consumer rights and he didn't want to give me false information and offered to ask colleagues before giving me a definite answer. I got a call the next morning saying it was unfortunately at the discretion of the manufacturer because they're an American company and he suggested I go to the small claims court!

Check the Invoice you got, the consumer helpline and Apple both gave you false advice! Apple trades in Ireland as a company called "Apple Distribution International" and it is "Apple Distribution International" that sold you the MacBook. This company is established and registered in Ireland and therefore is bound by Irish consumer laws. My advice would be to give Apple a one last call, ask to speak to someone higher up in management and tell them what has happened and that you want to get your MacBook replaced under the Consumer laws that are in place. It is at their advice that you were told to go to the AASP (CompuB) and also as the business that sold you the MacBook they are required to repair/replace/refund you for it!

keithclancy · 27-11-2015 9:34am

Hi OP

Ring back Customer Service, advise that the issue is not rectified, don't bother dealing with the AASP (and I'd pretty much ignore what they said anyway)

Keep your complaint simple, judging by the amount of information in your OP you may be causing problems for yourself.

Only things that are important.

The fault
When a repair was attempted
How many times a repair was attempted
The dates when they were attempted

Also state that you bought the item from the Apple Store and that the item was DOA when you received it.

Finally (and again make it simple) "the product you sold me is not of merchantable quality, what are you going to do to fix it"

Stick with it being simple and you'll get far, if you don't like the answer from the CSR ask them for the Case ID then hang up and ring back again. They don't like this as it affects their call stats.

Most likely they'll eventually raise an exception and exchange your laptop.

KidMeNotA1 · 30-11-2015 10:42am

Awfully long winded - Please paraphrase, otherwise people will switch off.
Small Claims Court €25. Forms can be downloaded on-line. Must be deposited to Court in area of seller (shop you bought it from, even on-line, they must have an address). Court will then attempt to reach a settlement, otherwise can take a few months, depending on how busy it is. Claim for all your costs, incl. Court fee. Must have proper name of trader on form, so dig that out.
Welcome to the big bad world - do not waste your time being messed about again - go for the jagular.

Ryuzaki · 02-12-2015 4:35pm

**Update One**

*Tuesday 01/12/15*

So, no call back from the rep so I took matters into my own hands. I rang the tech support line and politely asked could I speak to someone higher up. We go through the case and all the details and they are shocked at what has happened but are honest and admit there is not a whole lot that can be done. I told him I would like an acceptable solution to be met by closing of business on Tuesday the 8th of December. He is now investigating the case and said at most he might be able to get me a like for like replacement so fingers crossed something happens here. I am expecting a call back this Friday around 5pm

*Wednesday 02/12/15*
I get a phone call from the Customer Relations Rep asking if I have gone to get the laptop repaired myself / what the craic is. I explain I sought legal advice and acted upon that, ringing his colleague in the Tech Support department because he himself is impossible to reach. I explained the investigation is ongoing and that is where I'm at. He said **"It's only a minor cosmetic issue and that we can't do anything about that."** I ended the call and he is going to ring back next Monday.

keithclancy · 02-12-2015 4:49pm

Ryuzaki wrote: »

**Update One**

*Tuesday 01/12/15*

So, no call back from the rep so I took matters into my own hands. I rang the tech support line and politely asked could I speak to someone higher up. We go through the case and all the details and they are shocked at what has happened but are honest and admit there is not a whole lot that can be done. I told him I would like an acceptable solution to be met by closing of business on Tuesday the 8th of December. He is now investigating the case and said at most he might be able to get me a like for like replacement so fingers crossed something happens here. I am expecting a call back this Friday around 5pm

*Wednesday 02/12/15*
I get a phone call from the Customer Relations Rep asking if I have gone to get the laptop repaired myself / what the craic is. I explain I sought legal advice and acted upon that, ringing his colleague in the Tech Support department because he himself is impossible to reach. I explained the investigation is ongoing and that is where I'm at. He said **"It's only a minor cosmetic issue and that we can't do anything about that."** I ended the call and he is going to ring back next Monday.

Tell them it's not a refurbished unit, only these units are subject to minor cosmetic issues.

The unit was not repaired correctly.

Ryuzaki · 02-12-2015 8:52pm

keithclancy wrote: »

Tell them it's not a refurbished unit, only these units are subject to minor cosmetic issues.

The unit was not repaired correctly.

Will do! Wasn't aware of this, thanks

WARNING - Be careful buying from Apple Ireland. Also - Advice desperately needed

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