Prometheus SPOILERS FROM POST 1538

PhiloCypher · 08-06-2012 11:55pm

niallon wrote: »

- Mr. Biologist (who clearly got his degree by mail order.....on a napkin). Did I miss something? He got snaked, they went back into the ship, am I right in saying he just didn't appear after? Shouldn't he have birthed a creature? Shouldn't that creature have become an antagonist for the main cast given how much time was dedicated to him getting attacked in the first place? No, instead we get red head Turok showing up at the ship horrifically randomly and initiating a horrendously OTT action scene, that also disappears into nothing like most of the other tone shifters in the film.

I believe that was the geologist Fitfield as evidenced by this picture

niallon wrote: »

- Finally what annoyed me the most, the lack of cohesion with the rest of the series. As with most prequels, VFX and technology have advanced to a point that the original looks horribly dated within the movie's universe. I would have much preferred Scott to say "What you saw in Alien/Aliens, that's the future tech of this universe" so then there'd be no 2089 iPad for David, no wonder cube for Holloway, no wonder med tube for Vickers and above all else, everything wouldn't look so goddam digital!! It's like the Star Wars prequels where nothing sits comfortably visually with the original trilogy, until the last five minutes of Episode 3 when Lucas made everything look like it was made from egg cartons again.

The way I rationalized the difference in tech was that the nostromo being basically a cargo ship was entirely utilitarian whereas the Prometheus was a ship of discovery tricked out with the latest tech .

al28283 · 08-06-2012 11:58pm

I'm fine with Tech in prequels being more advanced, it's unavoidable. That doesn't excuse this movie being equal to a bad episode of Stargate SG1

pearsquasher · 08-06-2012 11:59pm

I just saw it for the second time..brought my nephew. I was less cynical and actually enjoyed it more knowing the outcome. The alien biology made more sense when I wasn't wondering why characters were a but off....in fact the whole thing felt more coherent. Definetly think vickers is a bot and facebender deserves an Oscar. I've gone from a 6 to 9/10. Lots if ideas in this thread rang true..over the plotholes..

al28283 · 09-06-2012 12:06am

pearsquasher wrote: »

I just saw it for the second time..brought my nephew. I was less cynical and actually enjoyed it more knowing the outcome. The alien biology made more sense when I wasn't wondering why characters were a but off....in fact the whole thing felt more coherent. Definetly think vickers is a bot and facebender deserves an Oscar. I've gone from a 6 to 9/10. Lots if ideas in this thread rang true..over the plotholes..

Nothing about Vickers being an android makes sense to me, she got angry, she got hurt, she made stupid decisions where an android wouldn't i.e to avoid being killed she simply had to run left instead of straight ahead.
Also she did seem to fear death in those last moments when no other android in the series seemed to care.

If she is a bot then she is an extremely badly written bot

niallon · 09-06-2012 12:12am

PhiloCypher wrote: »

I believe that was the geologist Fitfield as evidenced by this picture

No I knew who it was at the ship, what annoys me is that Mr.Biologist (Millburn, thank you IMDB) was the main target for this films Kane-like impregnation. Fitfield got burned then clearly got targeted. I dunno how to describe it, I just felt that the more natural progression given the film's mythology would have been for something to come from Mullburn being attacked, and have that thing be what caused the havoc at the ship, would've flowed much better in my book. Might be just me but his whole attack seemed to serve nothing in the long run, just to kill an already insignificant character.

The way I rationalized the difference in tech was that the nostromo being basically a cargo ship was entirely utilitarian whereas the Prometheus was a ship of discovery tricked out with the latest tech .

I'd agree, if it weren't for Aliens. The military have what can best be described as Atari monitors. Surely they would've been teched out

rednik · 09-06-2012 12:13am

She definitely has a nice bot.;)

opinion guy · 09-06-2012 12:13am

al28283 wrote: »

Nothing about Vickers being an android makes sense to me, she got angry, she got hurt, she made stupid decisions where an android wouldn't i.e to avoid being killed she simply had to run left instead of straight ahead.
Also she did seem to fear death in those last moments when no other android in the series seemed to care.

If she is a bot then she is an extremely badly written bot

When she threatened David she did seem to be equally as strong as him

al28283 · 09-06-2012 12:16am

opinion guy wrote: »

When she threatened David she did seem to be equally as strong as him

Or David was unable to put up any resistance as she was both human and next in line as the head of Weyland Corp, another reason why I don't think she was a bot

Deliverance · 09-06-2012 12:20am

The way I see this film is: Religion + aliens + sex + racism + formulaic approach to movie making + fans of alien = reaction. Creationism amongst sci fi fans always sparks discussion about creation.

What more can you expect from a manipulative writer who plays with such contempt as he has done with previous franchises such as LOST.

Goldstein · 09-06-2012 12:23am

pearsquasher wrote: »

I just saw it for the second time..brought my nephew. I was less cynical and actually enjoyed it more knowing the outcome. The alien biology made more sense when I wasn't wondering why characters were a but off....in fact the whole thing felt more coherent. Definetly think vickers is a bot and facebender deserves an Oscar. I've gone from a 6 to 9/10. Lots if ideas in this thread rang true..over the plotholes..

Don't confuse plot holes with an obvious systemic lack of all elementary skills necessary to construct a coherent story. The film's primary shortcoming is plain for any casual viewer to discern. Don't pretend it's not there or seek to excuse incompetence tarring what, had it been entrusted to a capable writer, would have been a film that could be considered a decent and worthy science fiction film and not just another fairly generic, trope laiden, cliché abounding, original thought bereft blockbuster movie. It wasn't terrible by any stretch, but it was terribly disappointing. Story first, all else second.

jcsoulinger · 09-06-2012 12:46am

al28283 wrote: »

Nothing about Vickers being an android makes sense to me, she got angry, she got hurt, she made stupid decisions where an android wouldn't i.e to avoid being killed she simply had to run left instead of straight ahead.
Also she did seem to fear death in those last moments when no other android in the series seemed to care.

If she is a bot then she is an extremely badly written bot

I think she is a droid who may be programmed to believe she is human, Her protocol is 1 stay alive at all costs, 2 collect information this way the company has a better chance of finding out exactly what went on, Shes like the sexiest black box ever:)

al28283 · 09-06-2012 12:49am

jcsoulinger wrote: »

I think she is a droid who may be programmed to believe she is human, Her protocol is 1 stay alive at all costs, 2 collect information this way the company has a better chance of finding out exactly what went on, Shes like the sexiest black box ever:)

Well the rest of the script was **** so maybe that's true. It wouldn't make any sense in any decent movie, never mind a series of movies

BarackPyjama · 09-06-2012 12:52am

jcsoulinger wrote: »

I think she is a droid who may be programmed to believe she is human, Her protocol is 1 stay alive at all costs, 2 collect information this way the company has a better chance of finding out exactly what went on, Shes like the sexiest black box ever:)

I'm sure Captain Janek would have found out?

al28283 · 09-06-2012 12:54am

BarackPyjama wrote: »

I'm sure Captain Janek would have found out?

yea, I assumed the point of that bit was to dismiss the idea she was a bot

jcsoulinger · 09-06-2012 12:55am

al28283 wrote: »

Well the rest of the script was **** so maybe that's true. It wouldn't make any sense in any decent movie, never mind a series of movies

The question if something makes sense or not is subjective, I really hope im making sense:)

opinion guy · 09-06-2012 12:55am

BarackPyjama wrote: »

I'm sure Captain Janek would have found out?

I presume she would have been programmed in multiple techniques!

al28283 · 09-06-2012 12:56am

jcsoulinger wrote: »

The question if something makes sense or not is subjective, I really hope im making sense:)

Ah, so in a movie where nothing makes sense, something that doesn't make sense makes sense? I guess that makes sense

Mickeroo · 09-06-2012 12:58am

niallon wrote: »

- Mr. Biologist (who clearly got his degree by mail order.....on a napkin). Did I miss something? He got snaked, they went back into the ship, am I right in saying he just didn't appear after?

They found his corpse and the snake jumped out of his mouth at the scottish one, I think they legged it then when the **** started hitting the fan then which is why his body never made it back to the ship.

jcsoulinger · 09-06-2012 12:59am

BarackPyjama wrote: »

I'm sure Captain Janek would have found out?

Are we sure he done the deed?

al28283 · 09-06-2012 1:00am

Mickeroo wrote: »

They found his corpse and the snake jumped out of his mouth at the scottish one, I think they legged it then when the **** started hitting the fan then which is why his body never made it back to the ship.

was he the guy with the mohawk who showed up at the ship with his legs all bent out and crawling like a crab? That was just stupid, really stupid

Mickeroo · 09-06-2012 1:01am

jcsoulinger wrote: »

Are we sure he done the deed?

It was made pretty obvious in the film that they did. "My quaters in 10 minutes"

Mickeroo · 09-06-2012 1:03am

al28283 wrote: »

was he the guy with the mohawk who showed up at the ship with his legs all bent out and crawling like a crab? That was just stupid, really stupid

Yea it was ridiculous. But the guy I'm on about was pete vs life.

Dempsey · 09-06-2012 1:03am

BarackPyjama wrote: »

I'm sure Captain Janek would have found out?

Lambert and Ripley discuss whether or not they've slept with Ash in Alien. Did either admit that they did?

Maybe they are anatomically correct. Remember that Dave explained that they are programmed to mimic human behaviour regardless, e.g. Dave puts on the space suit despite not needing it.

Mickeroo · 09-06-2012 1:04am

Dempsey wrote: »

Lambert and Ripley discuss whether or not they've slept with Ash in Alien. Did either admit that they did?

Maybe they are anatomically correct. Remember that Dave explained that they are programmed to mimic human behaviour regardless, e.g. Dave puts on the space suit despite not needing it.

A big leap from putting on a spacesuit to make folks feel comfortable to being programmed to give a good rogering to someone.

al28283 · 09-06-2012 1:05am

Dempsey wrote: »

Lambert and Ripley discuss whether or not they've slept with Ash in Alien. Did either admit that they did?

Maybe they are anatomically correct. Remember that Dave explained that they are programmed to mimic human behaviour regardless, e.g. Dave puts on the space suit despite not needing it.

Dave also does that cool thing where he plays basketball on a bike, and Bishop did the whole hand/knife thing which means androids definately have super spatial awareness and reactions. Vickers did not

al28283 · 09-06-2012 1:07am

Mickeroo wrote: »

A big leap from putting on a spacesuit to make folks feel comfortable to being programmed to give a good rogering to someone.

I believe that's been a standard of sci-fi ever since the pleasure bots in Bladerunner or when Data ****ed Tasha Yarr

niallon · 09-06-2012 1:07am

Mickeroo wrote: »

They found his corpse and the snake jumped out of his mouth at the scottish one, I think they legged it then when the **** started hitting the fan then which is why his body never made it back to the ship.

Yup I've realised after your post, Fitfield wasn't there, it was Millburn. Still though, I thought Millburn's attack was going to be the turning point, where things would get "Alien" but in the end he lived, and died, simply to make a Scottish woman wee herself a little. Annoyed me!

jcsoulinger · 09-06-2012 1:08am

Mickeroo wrote: »

It was made pretty obvious in the film that they did. "My quaters in 10 minutes"

Its only pretty obvious that a proposition was made.

Mickeroo · 09-06-2012 1:11am

jcsoulinger wrote: »

Its only pretty obvious that a proposition was made.

The whole them getting it on was a plot device for the captain to leave the bridge while things started going bad in the temple.

jcsoulinger · 09-06-2012 1:14am

al28283 wrote: »

Dave also does that cool thing where he plays basketball on a bike, and Bishop did the whole hand/knife thing which means androids definately have super spatial awareness and reactions. Vickers did not

If she showed these abilities it would become obvious she is a droid once this was discovered it would make her vulnerable and or expendable.

Mickeroo · 09-06-2012 1:16am

jcsoulinger wrote: »

If she showed these abilities it would become obvious she is a droid once this was discovered it would make her vulnerable and or expendable.

Even when the spaceship was falling on her?

al28283 · 09-06-2012 1:17am

jcsoulinger wrote: »

If she showed these abilities it would become obvious she is a droid once this was discovered it would make her vulnerable and or expendable.

Not at the moment of her death! An android would be able to calculate the best way to run to avoid the big bad fally spaceship, and wouldn't have shown so much fear. Shaw was able to avoid it by rolling slightly to the left so surely a super advanced robot could have figured it out, with or without blowing her cover, it wouldn't have mattered at that stage

Dempsey · 09-06-2012 1:19am

al28283 wrote: »

Dave also does that cool thing where he plays basketball on a bike, and Bishop did the whole hand/knife thing which means androids definately have super spatial awareness and reactions. Vickers did not

Dave had his head ripped off, where was his super spatial awareness and reactions then! :pac:

She could have been programmed not to show super spatial awareness and reactions and be limited to reaction times consistent with humans. Dave clearly seemed to be going off on a tangent to his orginal programming, why not Vickers?

Look, i'm just providing a counter argument for discussion.

I do remember her sweating whilst doing the pushups, robots dont have this trait AFAIK unless she is a completely different design. I believe the attempt at ambiguity was pointless, there was no point to her character being like that. It would have been better and kept in line with the story if she was just uncompromising of the rules and ensuring that Weyland had their money well spent and were going to get a tangible return on their investment. She didnt need to be standing in the dark in random corridors and other oddball behaviour.

Eggy Baby! · 09-06-2012 1:24am

Mickeroo wrote: »

The whole them getting it on was a plot device for the captain to leave the bridge while things started going bad in the temple.

Was the complex a temple or a military/secret weapons base?

I always thought that the huge head in the main area was rather like how the Soviets put busts of Lenin etc. in public buildings- maybe that giant head is of an Engineer leader? Also why is a xenomorph represented on the wall mural? Maybe the xenomorphs are the nemesi of the Engineers? The carvings kinda looked like war propaganda.

al28283 · 09-06-2012 1:24am

Dempsey wrote: »

Dave had his head ripped off, where was his super spatial awareness and reactions then! :pac:

Look, i'm just providing a counter argument for discussion. I do remember her sweating whilst doing the pushups, robots dont have this trait AFAIK. I believe the attempt at ambiguity was pointless, there was no point to her character being like that. It would have been better and kept in line with the story if she was just uncompromising of the rules and ensuring that Weyland had their money well spent and were going to get a tangible return on their investment. She didnt need to be standing in the dark in random corridors and other oddball behaviour

Agreed, there was so much about this movie that was unneccessary.
Most of the crew, did we ever even see all 17 of them? I cant rememebr seeing the 2 pilot guys until they were cheering that were going to die.
Vickers being Weyland's daughter, so what? It didn't add a thing to the movie.

And then there were those shots at the beginning were they were sending some video message to somebody but got no respinse, what was that about?

Oh and the whole thing about Shaw not being able to have a kid and then having an alien kid. That was stupid.

The way David told her she had an alien thing inside her, stupid.

al28283 · 09-06-2012 1:26am

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

why is a xenomorph represented on the wall mural?.

Why is there a giant 4 toed statue on the island in Lost?

jcsoulinger · 09-06-2012 1:26am

Mickeroo wrote: »

The whole them getting it on was a plot device for the captain to leave the bridge while things started going bad in the temple.

That does make sense, where else would he be?,,,,although there was a basket ball on board:eek:

al28283 · 09-06-2012 1:28am

jcsoulinger wrote: »

That does make sense, where else would he be?,,,,although there was a basket ball on board:eek:

http://gifs.gifbin.com/sw50sw8sw578.gif

Dempsey · 09-06-2012 1:30am

Mickeroo wrote: »

A big leap from putting on a spacesuit to make folks feel comfortable to being programmed to give a good rogering to someone.

The idea was dropped in the original Alien film though

Mickeroo wrote: »

Even when the spaceship was falling on her?

Dave is self aware that he is robot, Vickers could be designed and programmed completely different.

Did any of the other humans do exercises when they woke up from hyper sleep? I cant remember. Do you see Vickers being woken from hyper sleep?

jcsoulinger · 09-06-2012 1:33am

al28283 wrote: »

Not at the moment of her death! An android would be able to calculate the best way to run to avoid the big bad fally spaceship, and wouldn't have shown so much fear. Shaw was able to avoid it by rolling slightly to the left so surely a super advanced robot could have figured it out, with or without blowing her cover, it wouldn't have mattered at that stage

just guessing but she may not react like other bots because shes not like other bots, she thinks shes human

al28283 · 09-06-2012 1:34am

Dempsey wrote: »

Dave is self aware that he is robot, Vickers could be designed and programmed completely different.

Did any of the humans do exercises when they woke up from hyper sleep? I cant remember

No, but in a movie like this it is more likely that Vickers doing pressups was more to show something about her character. That she's tough.

I kinda half feel that Scott wanted us to think she was the Ripley of this movie and throughout we realise she's a bitch, and her death was meant to be a big payoff where the audienece cheers or something.

I do agree that if she is a bot she didn't know. But then ultimately what is the point. If she is a robot and nobody knows she is and she doesnt act like it then does it really make any difference?
It's like saying Frodo was the son of an orc in LOTR but it just never came up.

Mickeroo · 09-06-2012 1:35am

Dempsey wrote: »

The idea was dropped in the original Alien film though

Dave is self aware that he is robot, Vickers could be designed and programmed completely different.

Did any of the humans do exercises when they woke up from hyper sleep? I cant remember

I had forgotten that about Ash actually. I'm still not convinced Vickers was an android though. Although someone did mention its possible a rescue crew will find her body in the next movie and switch her on to find out what happened, thats the only way her death in this film would make any sort of sense. It felt pointless to go to the trouble of having her escape prometheus only to be crushed like that, they could have at least had her killed by the tentacle monster rather than the engineer coming after them.

indough · 09-06-2012 1:36am

maybe the space jockey was an android too. he did a bit of exercising after he woke up after all

al28283 · 09-06-2012 1:39am

Mickeroo wrote: »

It felt pointless to go to the trouble of having her escape prometheus only to be crushed like that

Unless Scott really thought the audience would actively hate enough that her death would be a big payoff, something we wanted to see.

You have to remember that the movie was made a year or 2 before any trailers or anything came out so at that point it's possible for a director to believe he can get away witht that kinda ****.

jcsoulinger · 09-06-2012 1:40am

Oh yeah why didnt vickers eject inside her pod instead of a half mile away?

niallon · 09-06-2012 1:41am

For the love of God, she wasn't an android, that's what Lindelof wants you to think, don't encourage the over hyped bell end!

Also looking for an explanation of the Xenomorph on the wall here. Lindelof said in an interview that himself and Scott discussed at length how much they would and wouldn't explain in the film so as that if there was no sequel, enough was explained to satisfy the viewer and that if a sequel happened, there was loose ends to tie up. How, Damon, does this Xenomorph representation, presumably appearing before the Xeno ever even did, not count as one of the need to be explained elements.

Dempsey · 09-06-2012 1:42am

al28283 wrote: »

No, but in a movie like this it is more likely that Vickers doing pressups was more to show something about her character. That she's tough.

I kinda half feel that Scott wanted us to think she was the Ripley of this movie and throughout we realise she's a bitch, and her death was meant to be a big payoff where the audienece cheers or something.

Why was dave exercising on the bike and basically testing his hand eye coordination with the basketball? Is it something robots need to do or is it just the robot mimicking human behaviour when he is obviously idle between tasks.

jcsoulinger · 09-06-2012 1:44am

al28283 wrote: »

I do agree that if she is a bot she didn't know. But then ultimately what is the point. If she is a robot and nobody knows she is and she doesnt act like it then does it really make any difference?
It's like saying Frodo was the son of an orc in LOTR but it just never came up.

it could be an OMFingG moment in a sequel

al28283 · 09-06-2012 1:45am

niallon wrote: »

For the love of God, she wasn't an android, that's what Lindelof wants you to think, don't encourage the over hyped bell end!

i disagree, I think the scene where Janek asks if she was a robot was Lindelof's poor attempt to dismiss the idea that she was a bot. I think he wrote that bit in and thought the matter was dealt with. Or maybe the studio felt there was some confusion around her so wanted a scene to clarify that she wasn't so they threw that in. But i definatley think that was the idea for that scene

jcsoulinger · 09-06-2012 1:49am

al28283 wrote: »

The way David told her she had an alien thing inside her, stupid.

I thought that was funny, David saying "your not pregnant in the traditional sense" in a completely deadpan expression like he was a robot or somthing:rolleyes:

Prometheus *SPOILERS FROM POST 1538*

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Prometheus SPOILERS FROM POST 1538