Bus driver banned for going too slow?

rainbowtrout · 19-03-2012 1:24pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Not having been in Carrick on shannon on the day one will never know the circumstances behind the situation rainbowtrout described but it may have happened because the tester felt opportunities existed to pass parked vehicles more quickly than happened or possible that traffic lights showing green signals were passed too slowly? It could also have been a driving tester who viewed things differently to many others who may have passed rainbowtrout on the day, There appears to be a lot of inconsistency in testing centres wen it comes to people passing, some testers fail far more than others while some testing centres fail far less than others.

I know myself that Naas used to have some of the hardest test routes in the country because all the road markings through the town were old and almost worn away but if you were not in the correct lane you would lose points or fail, this could have been a contributing reason for rainbowtrout's test failure in Carrick on Shannon.

Carrick doesn't have any traffic lights, one pedestrian crossing went in a couple of years ago, but that was long after my test.

It was a long time ago now so it's not like it matters, but there is very little room for manouevre on that street if you look at the link I posted above, but what happened before the test may have coloured the driving instructors view of me.

I was living in Limerick but was in the process of moving to Roscommon. Didn't know where I was going to be living because I hadn't got accommodation sorted yet for a new job, but I knew that the closest test centre to the town I was going to be living in was Carrick, so I put down my Limk address for correspondance.

Anyway when I went into the test centre, the tester questioned me on it as in 'Why did you put down Carrick if you live in Limerick?' Fair question I suppose, but not really any of her business. I explained my situation.

Anyway when I got back to the centre after my test and questioned the 'failure to make progress' on my sheet, she said 'You were doing 22-23 mph in a 30 zone ..... you wouldn't do that in Limerick now would you'....:mad:

I'm still living in the Carrick area and I don't think I've ever been able to get above 30 mph on that road due to the layout except late at night, when there are no pedestrians, no traffic, no cars parked.

Anyway did my test again about 6 months later in Carrick - got a different tester and had no faults. Nothing radically changed about my driving.

foggy_lad · 19-03-2012 1:55pm

It really is down to the mood of the tester on the day whether people pass or fail.

Capt'n Midnight · 19-03-2012 2:55pm

Point of information

It's quite legal to drive on the motorway at 51Kmph with a 51cc bike or three wheeler

Same way it's legal for a 16 year old with a W license to use a large tractor to pull a trailer with a forty foot container on it on other roads

It's a good chance that there was a hard shoulder near where this incident took place. Had the NRA used paint to turn good quality hard shoulders into extra lanes or had we a law where a motorist has to pull in if they are blocking more than five other motorists would this have happened ?

The main problem is that a significant number of Irish drivers are inconsiderate or unaware or both

Capt'n Midnight · 19-03-2012 3:23pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

It really is down to the mood of the tester on the day whether people pass or fail.

It also varies according to which center you do it in , and who runs the centers.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Learner-Drivers/The-Driving-Test/Driving-Test-Centre/Pass-Rates/

Pass rates vary betwwen Carlow 35.96% and Sligo 66.94%

In Carlow only one in three pass, in Sligo only one in three fail.

I'd love to hear the reasons for this huge difference !

might be interesting to plot on a contour map / add in previous years too

corktina · 19-03-2012 3:41pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Point of information

It's quite legal to drive on the motorway at 51Kmph with a 51cc bike or three wheeler

Same way it's legal for a 16 year old with a W license to use a large tractor to pull a trailer with a forty foot container on it on other roads

It's a good chance that there was a hard shoulder near where this incident took place. Had the NRA used paint to turn good quality hard shoulders into extra lanes or had we a law where a motorist has to pull in if they are blocking more than five other motorists would this have happened ?

The main problem is that a significant number of Irish drivers are inconsiderate or unaware or both

it's quite legal also to drive a vehcile capable of doing more than 50k at LESS than 50k. (stupid but legal)

Losty Dublin · 19-03-2012 3:51pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

It also varies according to which center you do it in , and who runs the centers.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Learner-Drivers/The-Driving-Test/Driving-Test-Centre/Pass-Rates/

Pass rates vary betwwen Carlow 35.96% and Sligo 66.94%

In Carlow only one in three pass, in Sligo only one in three fail.

I'd love to hear the reasons for this huge difference !

Look closer at the pass rates around the east and midlands. They are overall far lower in Leinster than in the west, south and north of the country. It may say more about poor driver habits amongst younger people, local road conditions that may lead to a higher failure rate, a lack of ADIR instructors in these areas or some other factors. The test is a standardised test with set skill sets to be marked upon; there must be other factors at play here to make such a difference.

rainbowtrout · 19-03-2012 4:17pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Look closer at the pass rates around the east and midlands. They are overall far lower in Leinster than in the west, south and north of the country. It may say more about poor driver habits amongst younger people, local road conditions that may lead to a higher failure rate, a lack of ADIR instructors in these areas or some other factors. The test is a standardised test with set skill sets to be marked upon; there must be other factors at play here to make such a difference.

Well it is and it isn't. A person can be failed on a mistake they make on a roundabout or set of traffic lights in a large town, but if they don't exist in a rural testing area they can't be failed (or tested on them). So they are not being tested in exactly the same way.

Again a driver could fail on incorrect usage of lanes in a large town but perhaps not in a small one.

I still find it amusing that it is possible to pass a driving test (in Carrick) without every possibly having encountered a set of traffic lights.

Also places like Cork, Limerick, Waterford, Galway, Sligo etc provide similar driving conditions to those found in Dublin, so there shouldn't be a huge difference in pass rates.

opinion guy · 19-03-2012 4:28pm

Driving slowly does not equal driving safely.
The safest driving conditions for everyone are when everyone is driving at pretty much the same speed.

Carawaystick wrote: »

What if they are driving something that has a lower speed limit than the traffic? Like a bus limited to 65 in a 120

Is this s hyopthetical or are buses limited to 65 ???

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Point of information

It's quite legal to drive on the motorway at 51Kmph with a 51cc bike or three wheeler

Not necessarily. There is the offence of dangerous driving. If you were doing 51kph on motorway on a three wheeler and the Guards decided it was dangerous for other motorist they could pull you and prosecute you regardless the rules for going onto the motorway.

Stark · 19-03-2012 4:54pm

opinion guy wrote: »

Is this s hyopthetical or are buses limited to 65 ???

Buses with standing passengers (ie: city buses) are limited to 65. Buses with seated passengers are limited to 80 on single carriageway roads and 100 on dual carriageways.

Stark · 19-03-2012 4:56pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You are suppose to drive at you own pace ( within reason ) and not the other cars.

If your own pace is about half of everyone else's pace then you're not a competent driver and have no business being on the road. The sooner they enforce this with mandatory retests, the better.

Losty Dublin · 19-03-2012 5:03pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Well it is and it isn't. A person can be failed on a mistake they make on a roundabout or set of traffic lights in a large town, but if they don't exist in a rural testing area they can't be failed (or tested on them). So they are not being tested in exactly the same way.

Again a driver could fail on incorrect usage of lanes in a large town but perhaps not in a small one.

I still find it amusing that it is possible to pass a driving test (in Carrick) without every possibly having encountered a set of traffic lights.

Also places like Cork, Limerick, Waterford, Galway, Sligo etc provide similar driving conditions to those found in Dublin, so there shouldn't be a huge difference in pass rates.

Fair point though in essence there is no such thing as a rural or urban test per se.

rainbowtrout · 19-03-2012 8:42pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Fair point though in essence there is no such thing as a rural or urban test per se.

No, I know that, but tests should be standard regardless of what part of the country they are in urban or rural.

L1011 · 19-03-2012 9:42pm

Stark wrote: »

Buses with standing passengers (ie: city buses) are limited to 65. Buses with seated passengers are limited to 80 on single carriageway roads and 100 on dual carriageways.

There's very few cases of city buses on 120's - one 66X a morning and possibly some along the M11 come to mind, 88N maybe also.

Hilly Bill · 20-03-2012 11:30pm

Stark wrote: »

If your own pace is about half of everyone else's pace then you're not a competent driver and have no business being on the road. The sooner they enforce this with mandatory retests, the better.

Are you for real ? Why should i have to drive at your pace? If the other cars are breaking the speed limit, should i? Im talking about own pace which is within the speed limit. If im driving within the speed limit and you drive up to my bumper should i then speed up? NO, as thats just dangerous.

What if i was driving a hearse?

Has anyone got a link to the case in question?

Stark · 20-03-2012 11:38pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What if i was driving a hearse?

:rolleyes:

I'm guessing from your posts that you're one of those people who enjoys crawling around holding people up so there's no point in arguing with you.

Going Forward · 21-03-2012 1:02am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Are you for real ? Why should i have to drive at your pace? If the other cars are breaking the speed limit, should i? Im talking about own pace which is within the speed limit. If im driving within the speed limit and you drive up to my bumper should i then speed up? NO, as thats just dangerous.

What if i was driving a hearse?

Has anyone got a link to the case in question?

Noel brett was talking through his arts, the case doesnt exist.
A similar but more legitimate case does exist, different vehicle though.

Worth listening to the podcast as he also shys away from enforcing any laws on pedestrians who like to wear black clothes whilst walking on the roads at night!

opinion guy · 21-03-2012 1:33am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Are you for real ? Why should i have to drive at your pace? If the other cars are breaking the speed limit, should i? Im talking about own pace which is within the speed limit. If im driving within the speed limit and you drive up to my bumper should i then speed up? NO, as thats just dangerous.

What if i was driving a hearse?

Has anyone got a link to the case in question?

If you are driving significantly lower than the legal limit you are putting others at risk. Its just that simple. You create more turbulence in the traffic flow. Its dangerous for everyone - including you.

Hilly Bill · 21-03-2012 1:59am

Stark wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I'm guessing from your posts that you're one of those people who enjoys crawling around holding people up so there's no point in arguing with you.

Na, far from it . I'm guessing from your posts that you are one of those speed merchants that tailgate and break red light

.

Hilly Bill · 21-03-2012 2:04am

opinion guy wrote: »

If you are driving significantly lower than the legal limit you are putting others at risk. Its just that simple. You create more turbulence in the traffic flow. Its dangerous for everyone - including you.

There isnt a lower limit but common sense should prevail. Now the limit on the quays prevents you going any slower as that would be stopping.

What is significantly lower than the legal limit?

foggy_lad · 21-03-2012 2:50am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

There isnt a lower limit but common sense should prevail. Now the limit on the quays prevents you going any slower as that would be stopping.

What is significantly lower than the legal limit?

Common sense SHOULD prevail but I have seen drivers on the motorway slowing right down to 20-30kph when they see the advance signs for their exit which are about a kilometre from the exit. It was always my understanding that you only slowed down when you move onto the off-ramp/slip road.

Some people don't have enough common sense or are too unwell to allow them drive safely so they should let someone else drive them around!

stoneill · 21-03-2012 3:59am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Are you for real ? Why should i have to drive at your pace? If the other cars are breaking the speed limit, should i? Im talking about own pace which is within the speed limit. If im driving within the speed limit and you drive up to my bumper should i then speed up? NO, as thats just dangerous.

What if i was driving a hearse?

Has anyone got a link to the case in question?

Yes - He is for real - if you are considerably slower than everyone else then you are a danger on that road. No one is asking you to break the speed limit just ensure your speed is appropriate. You are not there to ensure that others keep within the speed limit.
Driving at 50 in an 80 zone is not helping anyone.
If you are impeding the progress of others then pull over and let them by.

Driving a hearse is a special circumstance - I'm sure even hearse drivers do not drive at a funeral pace all the time.

Going Forward · 21-03-2012 1:09pm

opinion guy wrote: »

If you are driving significantly lower than the legal limit you are putting others at risk. Its just that simple. You create more turbulence in the traffic flow. Its dangerous for everyone - including you.

I detest turbulence in traffic.
Such Nonsense.

opinion guy · 21-03-2012 1:21pm

Going Forward wrote: »

I detest turbulence in traffic.
Such Nonsense.

Whats nonsense ?

L1011 · 21-03-2012 7:42pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Na, far from it . I'm guessing from your posts that you are one of those speed merchants that tailgate and break red light .

"speed merchants" - have you been eating copies of the Daily Mail?

Wanting people to maintain proper progress does not equate to tailgating and breaking red lights.

Refusing to drive at an appropriate speed for the conditions does equate to bad driving, however.

the groutch · 21-03-2012 7:57pm

afaik, the only clearly defined lower speed limit is 50kph on motorways.
if he was doing under 50 on a motorway he deserves whatever punishment he got.

Going Forward · 21-03-2012 8:30pm

opinion guy wrote: »

Whats nonsense ?

Turbulence.

I never heard em mentioning it on AA Roadwatch.

But I totally agree that drivers must keep up with the flow of traffic, and that if possible slow moving vehicles should move aside if circumstances allow.

Problem is, the 'correct' speed can be a subjective thing, a younger inexperienced driver may have a different opinion than an experienced driver.

In the same way, unless a car driver has ever driven an artic or coach, they cant be expected to appreciate the characteristics of such a vehicle.

I thought the original comments brodcast were quite suspect, thats why i posted querying them, not only because of their sloppiness but also in the same week of a bad bus crash on the continent it was even worse!

The actual case, the farmer and his tractor and his attitude, was dealt with a little harshly even, no fine, no warning, just a ban.

Then again if more "deliberate" road hogs" were treated consistently, the roads would probably be safer.

opinion guy · 21-03-2012 9:54pm

Ah right its not nonsense. Apparently, you are just ignorant of flow dynamics, which are used to model traffic flow. Anything that breaks the flow of traffic is a perturbation which causes turbulence in the flow - in the jargon of flow dynamics.
Google stuff before you declare it nonsense maybe ?

Going Forward · 21-03-2012 11:35pm

opinion guy wrote: »

Ah right its not nonsense. Apparently, you are just ignorant of flow dynamics, which are used to model traffic flow. Anything that breaks the flow of traffic is a perturbation which causes turbulence in the flow - in the jargon of flow dynamics.
Google stuff before you declare it nonsense maybe ?

I dont care much for fancy words; and dont need to "Google stuff" before I form an opinion.

Fancy theories are just that, theories, and while they may have their place, they have little relevance except in textbook autobahn style scenarios.

Factor in *real drivers* in actual scenarios coping with motorways with chaotic signage, national routes that are often cobbled together, and regional roads that originally derived from cattle paths, and any such theoretical traffic flow models become irrelevant.

And thats before any measurement of drivers' abilities are taken into consideration.

opinion guy · 21-03-2012 11:47pm

Going Forward wrote: »

I dont care much for fancy words; and dont need to "Google stuff" before I form an opinion.

Fancy theories are just that, theories, and while they may have their place, they have little relevance except in textbook autobahn style scenarios.

Factor in *real drivers* in actual scenarios coping with motorways with chaotic signage, national routes that are often cobbled together, and regional roads that originally derived from cattle paths, and any such theoretical traffic flow models become irrelevant.

And thats before any measurement of drivers' abilities are taken into consideration.

Wow. I'm amazed at your ability to dismiss whole field of study whilst simultaneously proclaiming to know nothing about them. Also your choice to argue with the person who is actually saying the same thing as you is .....interesting.

Tell me....have you thought about going into religion ? It seems you would have an aptitude for it......

Going Forward · 22-03-2012 12:14am

opinion guy wrote: »

Wow. I'm amazed at your ability to dismiss whole field of study whilst simultaneously proclaiming to know nothing about them. Also your choice to argue with the person who is actually saying the same thing as you is .....interesting.

Tell me....have you thought about going into religion ? It seems you would have an aptitude for it......

May the law be with you.

:D

Bus driver banned for going too slow?

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