Passenger numbers

man98 wrote: »

Irish Rail's "Service" was laughable. In the mornings 3 days a week a train from Enniscorthy ran down to connect with it, with no return connections in the evening. Secondly (and this is relevant to passenger numbers) I rarely saw ticket checkers, which meant anyone who didn't board in Waterford or Rosslare Strand couldn't pay for their tickets quite often. This is probably why numbers fluctuated. I saw 70 onboard in Campile (first station from Waterford) and 65 at Ballycullane, and 50 at Wellingtonbridge. This is quite a bit higher than 25, as Irish Rail said. This makes me wonder if other lightly travelled routes have the same situation, such as Manulla, Waterford - Limerick Junction and, to a lesser extent, Ballybrophy - Limerick.

It was a Monday-Friday service and there was a return connection. I will check to confirm the return service but I am near certain. Irish Rail didn't say only 25 used the service, it was an average of 25 per service on the line.

TINA1984 wrote: »

You mean you want parity with the other 'Intercity' lines which have large population bases at either end of it? Sorry mate, that doesn't make sense.

really? providing the same standard of comfort to us that other long distance routes get doesn't make sense? really? it doesn't?

TINA1984 wrote: »

Belfast, Cork/Limerick & Galway will always get the better rolling stock, that's just how it is.

ah yes, we should except a to tier rail system because "thats how it is" cork and belfast will get different stock, galway limerick and so on get the same rolling stock as us, but all of the time, not when IE can spair a unit. the intercity railcars are designed for long distance routes which rosslare and sligo are, the 2900 class are suburban railcars designed for short distance high capacity routes which sligo and rosslare aren't, i'm afraid "thats just how it is" isn't good enough and is no defence for these things being used on the line to rosslare and sligo.

TINA1984 wrote: »

You should be grateful that, along with the Sligo line, the significant commuter population from the Greater Dublin Area means the Rosslare line hasn't been shuttered completely.

yes, i should be so greatful that i have a rail service at all that i should have to put up with a second class service, no wonder people go to and have gone other alternatives with an attitude like that

TINA1984 wrote: »

I'd wager the rolling stock on the line is wholly suitable for most of the customers who utilise it.

your joking right? you honestly think suburban railcars are "wholly suitable for most of the customers who use the line" if that is the case how come passengers have gone down since suburban railcars were introduced on the line back in 2004? thankfully they have come back slightly but if you think glorified dublin bus vehicles are suitable for a journey of nearly 3 hours then i hope you never get a management job in irish rail.

TINA1984 wrote: »

It wouldn't be an end of the road post without a smart comment at the end of it

listen, i've being using the line for nearly 20 years, so i know what i'm talking about.

TINA1984 wrote: »

Face the facts, the Rosslare line is kept alive by those who use it the most ie Dublin area commuters,Does that compute with you?

face what facts, whats that got to do with anything, most of the traffic on much of the lines in ireland is commuter traffic

TINA1984 wrote: »

its not the people of Rosslare or Wexford town on the odd trip to the big city keeping the line afloat, its the lads who are using the line day in and day out to commute to Dublin who are keeping the Rosslare line viable.

is it? really? mixture of both i'd say.

TINA1984 wrote: »

As such, commuter stock is entirely appropriate.

how is it, a 29 doing a run to rosslare while an ICR does a run to m3 parkway, so you explain to me how commuter stock designed for short distance high capacity routes is "entirely appropriate" i'l tell you, it isn't, otherwise we'd see a more powerful version of a 29 doing the services to westport and tralee for example.

TINA1984 wrote: »

We'd all love to have first class carriages, a buffet and a trolley service for all the provincial lines but if the PAX ain't there then there's no point.

do you think i care a less about a trolly service? do you think i care a less about a first class carrige? now maybe if these things were provided pacs might use the train more but as a start an ICR instead of a 29 would be a major leap forward, we have them most of the time anyway so the removal of the couple of 29 runs is all that needs to happen and it can happen, and it really isn't a big ask

TINA1984 wrote: »

As for the 'InterCity' schtick, that's a branding and nothing else. Cork and Belfast are cities, Rosslare and Sligo are not. There are NO major population centres on the Rosslare and Sligo lines once you venture out of the Dublin commuter belt, expecting the same kind of rolling stock as the busy IC lines when most of the paying customers are commuters just isn't logical.

what are you on about, whats population or population centres got to do with whether an ICR is used or not? most of the paying customers on the majority of lines in this country are commuters, most lines are operated by ICRS doubled up where needs be, a 4 car ICR instead of a 4 car 29 which is being taken away from a service that could do with its design such as maynooth isn't "logical" really? come on now.

TINA1984 wrote: »

You have to accept that Rosslare harbour isn't important a destination anymore as it was once in the mosts of time, this isn't because of the supposedly inferior rolling stock, but because where possible people will drive to the Port or use easier alternatives such as airports or Dublin or DL ports for their trips abroad

again, whats that got to do with an intercity railcar over a 29 commuter railcar? as i said intercity railcars are used mostly on this line but need to be at all times.

TINA1984 wrote: »

no amount of fancy rolling stock or whining about the lack of a "can do"/let someone else pay for it attitude will change this.

sweet jesus, look, 29s are suburban rolling stock designed for maynooth and other such services, not rosslare. i never mentioned rosslare being an important destination. the "let someone else pay for it attitude" doesn't exist in this thread, ICRS aren't fancy rolling stock either, they are comfortable unlike 2900s, thats all i want.

TINA1984 wrote: »

There are plenty of closed railway lines around the country with the same profile of the Rosslare and Sligo lines who's populations I'm sure would be absolutely delighted to have the kind of railway service the good people of Enniscorthy, Wexford & Rosslare supposedly have to endure.

ah yes, the old "well someone else would be delighted with whatever" attitude, a tactic used to silence someone who dares to complain, an example of this is someone saying how someone who goes to a restaurant but gets bad food when they would be happy with decent food nothing fancy, just decent food, shouldn't complain because people are starving. obviously the people on these lines you talk of weren't happy as they went to cars and they had better rolling stock one could argue

TINA1984 wrote: »

Like I already said, be grateful for what you have

and that is why this country is the way it is, people afraid to say anything because they are told they should be greatful, well i won't be greatful, passengers on this line have been treated like second class citizens for years, a 4 car ICR instead of a 4 car 29 is not to much to ask, infact i couldn't care a less about trolly services or even extra services, just a comfortable seat to sit on like other similar services such as westport would be great.

TINA1984 wrote: »

who knows what the future could bring

sums up CIE as a whole

I'll just point out, Rosslare - Dublin is used primarily for commuting. What you need to recognise is, a 4 car 22000 is generally quite full past Enniscorthy on most mornings, although I can't speak for any other times. As I pointed out before, railways aren't meant to be operated at a profit, so instead should we not aim for half decent services with comfortable seats on 2:30 journeys?

Judgement Day wrote: »

Given that the DART service loses money I can't see how it is carrying the Rosslare service. That said, if the DART hadn't been built the Rosslare route - Connolly/Rosslare - would probably have closed throughout.

Last i heard DART was break even and even a small profit so i dont know where that came from!

NIR is moreso a commuter line than a main line, well the bits than Benson hadn't gotten around to closing before he was ousted.

Copyerselveson wrote: »

Doesn't stop NI Railways running late services to Coleraine and Derry. Last train from Belfast to Derry is at 2110 and to Coleraine at 2240. The point I am making here is that the key to NI Railways recent successes is that Mal McGreevy and his colleagues recognise that if you provide a train service at times people want to travel rather than to suit internal railway staff patterns people will use the trains.

I've long advocated that Translink run the passenger railway on an All-Ireland basis. I'll wager that if they were to do this there would be no loose talk about cutting back rail services to "improve train paths". :rolleyes: Translink have proven that if managed properly there is a demand for good frequent rail services and at an affordable price.

If we really are serious about improving passenger numbers, we need more trains and a timetable to suit demand. It seems to me much of the timetable is really designed to keep IE working patterns in place such as Limerick Junction-Waterford, a prime example of a Parliamentary service. No wonder the service is under threat. Take Clonmel for instance. It's impossible to commute by train from Clonmel to either Limerick or Waterford using the existing timetable. First train to Waterford from Clonmel isn't until 1037. That's not a timetable to suit anyone working.

I remember hearing DART ran at a 20M annual loss a couple of years back. Having used Waterford - Limerick, the timetable is awkward, and it no longer runs on a Sunday. If someone wants to go on to Limerick, as most will, that train leaves 40 minutes after the train gets into Limerick Junction, which is a pain for all involved.

I really don't see a need for night services on Rosslare - Dublin. I noticed while looking at a 29000 on Wexford Quay on the 18:30 train from Dublin that there were 25+ people onboard, which isn't half bad. I also overheard a local explaining why the train is there to a tourist...

Re the translink comment. They wouldn't be interested in serving areas with so few Presbyterians, see the Derry line for example.

IR is a standing Joke In my opinion

Ive travelled on the Lj to waterford in the 70s and 80s and the time table of two trains is the same today. The times were set for boat trains in Rosslare which the train now doesn't even reach. CIE and IR has consistently refused to actually implement any useful time table.

WHY, because they keep lines like this in their back pocket to close to get the minister off their back. Its used to deflect attention away from other white elephants like the WRC

Look at the WRC , potentially Limerick to Waterford passes through large catchment areas, better ones then WRC does. This is recognised by the 2013 strategic rail review. Low numbers on the WRC , response, increase number of trains and drop prices, result , funnily and increase in numbers

Now ask yourself why IR will not do ( nor since 1970) has refused to alter the time table on the Limerick Waterford line.???? There hasn't been a sunday passenger train on that line in my living memory


Take Wexford - Rosslare Harbour. Funnily you'd expect that this is primarily to serve the port, SO what do IR do, remove the station , which was convenient to the ships and put in a "halt" 900metres across a desolate carpark, ( I know I used it two years ago). Then run the trains with no consideration for the ship timetables

Result, all the foot passenger go by Bus. , Next step , you'll hear IR bleating about low numbers, then " Oh of course minister we can effect savings by closing Rosslare, or LJ - Waterford"


BY THE WAY the strategic rail review specifically mentioned the unsuitability of commuter trains for The Connolly Rosslare service. Its the reason some IC units were moved there at all.

IR play with a train set, it doesn't run a passenger transport system, it has long ago given that up. It needs to be killed off soon. You cannot have a management that simply "fixes" things by killing its own services, IR Management needs the guts to try and GROW traffic, not just endless " rationalisation"

Not to mention of course the millions wasted in cutting up perfectly good stock, storing locos only relatively recently acquired and even today now rationalising the 22K fleet into smaller sets to save fuel ( which lowers passenger facilities and reduces stock flexibility )

This is a railway run to keep staff in a job, i.e. by continuously lowering running costs to the detriment of actually carrying passengers, The end result is that the system will , outside of Dublin Communter areas just fail over time. InterCity rail is now carrying so few passengers ( and virtually zero freight) that it has become a transport irrelevancy. You wouldn't notice the increase in cars if the rail system outside of Dublin was closed.

IRs view is to have a profitable railway with low costs and no passengers, cause that will keep the politicians off their back.