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Remember the minarets?

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  • #202
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    prinz wrote: »
    :confused: There is no precise reference to the burka is the Koran. There is no specific instruction to cover your face in the Koran.

    This piece gives some of the references..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niq%C4%81b

    You mean there is absolutely no requirement in the Koran at all to wearing a burqua.
    It is not a religous requirment therefore, banning it cant be anti islamic, can it ?


  • #203
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    anymore wrote: »
    You mean there is absolutely no requirement in the Koran at all to wearing a burqua.
    It is not a religous requirment therefore, banning it cant be anti islamic, can it ?

    There is no religious requirement whatsoever to wear a full burka. Covering your face was a cultural practice that was adopted but it is in no way mandatory for a Muslim woman to cover her face in Islam.


  • #204
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    prinz wrote: »
    There is no religious requirement whatsoever to wear a full burka. Covering your face was a cultural practice that was adopted but it is in no way mandatory for a Muslim woman to cover her face in Islam.
    Not alone is it not mandatory but it is not even shown to be desirable.

    There is abolutely no basis for encoraging its use at all. It is simply a device to have women treated as chattels, the property of men.
    It has also been shown to be medically unhealthy both for a woman and for any unborn child she might be carrying.. It should be banned on health grounds alone.


  • #205
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    anymore wrote: »
    I am afraid you are missing the point; it is being claimed that banning burquas is being anti islamic, so we must look to the Islamic origins of the garment.

    It's considered Islamic by some muslims now, so its origins are besides the point in considering any modern day repercussions.


  • #206
    RandomName2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Nodin wrote: »
    It's considered Islamic by some muslims now, so its origins are besides the point in considering any modern day repercussions.

    Things mean what people want them to mean.


  • #207
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    .Burkas causing women health problems

    burkas.jpgAside from beatings (which are legal in
    many arab countries) burkas are making women sick throughout the arab world. 99 percent of women in a recent study showed a deficiency of vitamin D.

    Scientists had previously found high rates of vitamin D deficiency in Arab and East Indian women living in the United Arab Emirates. A follow-up study investigated the effect of vitamin D supplements on 178 UAE women, many of whom covered themselves entirely, faces and hands included, when outside their homes. Only two of the women did not have vitamin D deficiency prior to receiving supplements. The results were published by a team of scientists in the June issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.
    .

    http://retardzone.com/2007/06/28/burkas-causing-women-health-problems/

    I notice there has been no comments on what must the fairly obivous possibility of health problems arising from wearing the burqua continously - particularily from ' Liberals' !
    The above link is one of a good few whch document the potential ill effects from wearing the burqua.
    Suffice to say if an employer in Ireland or UK forced an employee to contuously wear garment which resukted in the above ill effects, he would soon find himself/herself in the courts - indeed H&S rules might prevent the wearing of such a garment on a continous basis.

    Here is a further articke referring health problems arising in Ireland from burqua wearing
    http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/272307
    :Medical experts in the West warn that Islamic women wearing these all-encompassing burqas in the northerly climates, which have far less sunshine, suffer much more from osteoporosis due to a lack of Vitamin D.

    The garments don't let through enough sunshine. And their newborn babies are prone to getting more seizures for the same reason.

    "In Ireland, which is experiencing a large influx of muslim immigrants at the moment, women wearing the burqa, doctors are warning, 'are at increased risk of pelvic fractures during childbirth because of vitamin D deficiency due to a lack of sunlight. "And babies born to women with vitamin D deficiency are also more prone to seizures in their first week of life," according to Dr Miriam Casey, expert in Medicine for the Elderly at the Osteoporosis Unit in St James’s hospital in Dublin. The burqa - an all-enveloping outer garment, does not allow enough sunlight through to give women sufficient vitamin D, she warns.


  • #208
    irishconvert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    anymore wrote: »
    Not alone is it not mandatory but it is not even shown to be desirable.

    There is abolutely no basis for encoraging its use at all. It is simply a device to have women treated as chattels, the property of men.
    It has also been shown to be medically unhealthy both for a woman and for any unborn child she might be carrying.. It should be banned on health grounds alone.

    Do you also think that smoking and alcohol consumption should be banned due to the health problems they cause? What about fatty foods?


  • #209
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    irishconvert wrote: »
    Do you also think that smoking and alcohol consumption should be banned due to the health problems they cause? What about fatty foods?

    That is a fair if predictable question.
    I accept that I no longer legally have the chioce in the matter of whether I put on a seat belt in the car. I understand the reasons for this law for the good of all, and accept it. As a society we accepted that it is no longer acceptable to allow smokning inside public buildings - do you see where I am going ?
    And yes we have put in place legal restrictions on the purchase and consumptions of a variety of foods, drinks and even herbal medicines. You ate of course aware of the debate regarding so called head shops.
    In my own life time there has beeb a very significant increase in the restrictions on what we as citizens may do.
    It is of course totally illegal to sell cigarettes or alcohol to young teenagers.


  • #210
    irishconvert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    anymore wrote: »
    That is a fair if predictable question.
    I accept that I no longer legally have the chioce in the matter of whether I put on a seat belt in the car. I understand the reasons for this law for the good of all, and accept it. As a society we accepted that it is no longer acceptable to allow smokning inside public buildings - do you see where I am going ?
    And yes we have put in place legal restrictions on the purchase and consumptions of a variety of foods, drinks and even herbal medicines. You ate of course aware of the debate regarding so called head shops.
    In my own life time there has beeb a very significant increase in the restrictions on what we as citizens may do.
    It is of course totally illegal to sell cigarettes or alcohol to young teenagers.

    I don't think you answered any of my questions there.


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  • #211
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    irishconvert wrote: »
    I don't think you answered any of my questions there.

    In fact where I live it is already illegal to consume alcohol on the street ! And gardai have the power to remove the offending bottles.
    Now if we are going to play this game, then let me ask you, should all muslims call for the removal of all references to Jiihad from the Holy Books ?


  • #212
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    anymore wrote: »
    Now if we are going to play this game, then let me ask you, should all muslims call for the removal of all references to Jiihad from the Holy Books ?

    Whats that to do with anything?


  • #213
    irishconvert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    anymore wrote: »
    In fact where I live it is already illegal to consume alcohol on the street ! And gardai have the power to remove the offending bottles.
    Now if we are going to play this game, then let me ask you, should all muslims call for the removal of all references to Jiihad from the Holy Books ?

    That is not what I asked you. I asked, as you are so concerned about health implecations of wearing a burqa that you want it banned, do you also think alcohol consumption, smoking, and eating fatty foods should be banned due to their negative health implecations? Talking about drinking alcohol in public is nothing to do with it and is avoiding answering the question.
    anymore wrote: »
    Now if we are going to play this game, then let me ask you, should all muslims call for the removal of all references to Jiihad from the Holy Books ?
    It is not a game, it is a legitimate question as you said yourself.

    I don't know what so-called references to Jihad are you taking about and I don't see the relevance to this discussion anyway.


  • #214
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    irishconvert wrote: »
    That is not what I asked you. I asked, as you are so concerned about health implecations of wearing a burqa that you want it banned, do you also think alcohol consumption, smoking, and eating fatty foods should be banned due to their negative health implecations? Talking about drinking alcohol in public is nothing to do with it and is avoiding answering the question.


    It is not a game, it is a legitimate question as you said yourself.

    I don't know what so-called references to Jihad are you taking about and I don't see the relevance to this discussion anyway.

    I ddi answer your question - there are laws covering the comsumption in public here - did you not read my answer. There are also laws and rules concerning foods and additives to foods. Do you not live in Ireland to say you are not aware of this ?


  • #215
    irishconvert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    anymore wrote: »
    I ddi answer your question - there are laws covering the comsumption in public here - did you not read my answer. There are also laws and rules concerning foods and additives to foods. Do you not live in Ireland to say you are not aware of this ?

    You are still not answering the questions. Why do you keep talking about consuming alcohol in public? That is not my question.

    You think the burqa should be banned as it allegedly causes vitamin D diffiency in the women who wear it. My question is do you think alcohol consumption should also be banned (in pubs, on the street, in the home, anywhere) because of the damage it causes to humans (cardiovascular disease, malabsorption, chronic pancreatitis, alcoholic liver disease, and cancer).

    Do you think smoking should be banned because of the damage it does to the person smoking (lung cancer, increased cholesterol, etc)?


  • #216
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    irishconvert wrote: »
    You are still not answering the questions. Why do you keep talking about consuming alcohol in public? That is not my question.

    You think the burqa should be banned as it allegedly causes vitamin D diffiency in the women who wear it. My question is do you think alcohol consumption should also be banned (in pubs, on the street, in the home, anywhere) because of the damage it causes to humans (cardiovascular disease, malabsorption, chronic pancreatitis, alcoholic liver disease, and cancer).

    Do you think smoking should be banned because of the damage it does to the person smoking (lung cancer, increased cholesterol, etc)?

    You mean you did not like the answer I gave which is quite different from my not answering the question.
    Now if you wish to continue going down the path of bringing in tangenitial issues, I am happy to do so but you cannot then come along talking about those issues having nothing to do with the threador otherwise complaining about the issues I rasie ; are we agreed ? Lets be clear on the ground rules.


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  • #217
    irishconvert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    anymore wrote: »
    You mean you did not like the answer I gave which is quite different from my not answering the question.
    Now if you wish to continue going down the path of bringing in tangenitial issues, I am happy to do so but you cannot then come along talking about those issues having nothing to do with the threador otherwise complaining about the issues I rasie ; are we agreed ? Lets be clear on the ground rules.

    The point here is that your argument to ban the burqa on the basis that it allegedly causes vitamin D diffiency in women is very weak. If nannyism such as this was extended to ban other things which have a negative impact on health then we would have to ban things which presumably do not suit you (e.g. banning alcohol as it causes liver damage, banning smoking as it causes cancer).


  • #218
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    irishconvert wrote: »
    The point here is that your argument to ban the burqa on the basis that it allegedly causes vitamin D diffiency in women is very weak. If nannyism such as this was extended to ban other things which have a negative impact on health then we would have to ban things which presumably do not suit you (e.g. banning alcohol as it causes liver damage, banning smoking as it causes cancer).

    One, I am not seeking to have burquas banned on the grounds alone of physical health; read back this thread and Ban the Burqua thread for al the reasons.
    Second, why are you assuming I am a coumer of alcohol and/or tobacco ?


  • #219
    irishconvert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    anymore wrote: »
    One, I am not seeking to have burquas banned on the grounds alone of physical health; read back this thread and Ban the Burqua thread for al the reasons.
    Second, why are you assuming I am a coumer of alcohol and/or tobacco ?

    Keep on avoiding the questions, good man yerself.

    Have a nice day.

    P.S. I have just unsubscribed from this topic so won't see any further question avoidance tactics from you.


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