Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Low electricity users hit with extra charge

Options
13

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    Mr.Biscuits
    Closed Accounts Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Mr.Biscuits


    Bord Gais has always had a standard charge.


  • Options
    #63
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    That's a bloody good idea.

    If everyone turned on the kettle + tumble dryer + immersion heater + washing machine at exactly 7pm we could make a point.

    How's about a facebook campaign?

    And what point would that be? To overload the network to the point of collapse, leaving a widespread blackout that causes severe economic damage to everyone but the ESB? Sch a campaign is ill thought out and utterly nonsensical.

    In fact I'd doubt such an exercise would even be possible... On Christmas day almost all the electric ovens are turned on at 3pm let the load on the network is less than a typical day. Its industry that uses the majority of the electricity. Aughinish Smelter being a particularly heavy user and possibly the biggest consumer of electricity in the country.


  • Options
    #64
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    And what point would that be? To overload the network to the point of collapse, leaving a widespread blackout that causes severe economic damage to everyone but the ESB? Sch a campaign is ill thought out and utterly nonsensical.

    Yeah, you're right.

    It's better that we just be quiet and accept everything that's thrown at us.


  • Options
    #65
    Sonnenblumen
    Registered Users Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭Sonnenblumen


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Not that I agree with it, but dont you have a fridge and a kettle and an alarm and a television and a freezer and a digital box and a mobile phone etc etc?

    I have various elctrical appliances, but thats not the point. The point is that these Ffers want to penalise low users, whereas, high users should be penalise, afterall, the higher the consumption the higher the CO2 etc. Low users should be rewarded.

    I really hate this regressive semi state backward economics. :mad::mad::mad:


  • Options
    #66
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    Sonnenblumen wrote: »
    BTW I use 3 watt LED lighting which consumes virtually no electricity. Are consumers like me now to be penalised for investing in energy efficient lighting, appliances etc?

    How is ESB incurring losses in energy efficient homes? They have the most expensive tariffs, standing charges etc. More bolloxology from a fat semi-state which has been pumped by mad CER regulations!!:mad:

    This is it.

    It amounts to an anti-green policy. Charge green minded people money for being efficient with their electricity use. Its maddening. I really hope a big fuss is kicked up over this.

    They have the highest unit energy costs in the EU and they have a hefty standing charge. How so they get away with this s**t.

    Sell up the ESB now i'm sick of them.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    eth0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭eth0


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    And what point would that be? To overload the network to the point of collapse, leaving a widespread blackout that causes severe economic damage to everyone but the ESB? Sch a campaign is ill thought out and utterly nonsensical.

    In fact I'd doubt such an exercise would even be possible... On Christmas day almost all the electric ovens are turned on at 3pm let the load on the network is less than a typical day. Its industry that uses the majority of the electricity. Aughinish Smelter being a particularly heavy user and possibly the biggest consumer of electricity in the country.


    An oven doesn't use a massive amount of electricity. 900w is about average I think.

    The idea isn't to cause a massive blackout, just to draw a load of expensive peak time energy till they drop this nonsense charge. People that are just under the threshold could have an electric heater or 3 come on for 15 minutes at 7pm and it wouldn't cost them any extra.

    Even if it did cause overload it's unlikely to take down the whole network. They'll probably load shed everything till its just the few remaining factories in Ireland that are in the process of moving to China anyway, and the TD's 1st and 2nd houses left with power


  • Options
    #68
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    And what point would that be? To overload the network to the point of collapse, leaving a widespread blackout that causes severe economic damage to everyone but the ESB? Sch a campaign is ill thought out and utterly nonsensical.

    In fact I'd doubt such an exercise would even be possible... On Christmas day almost all the electric ovens are turned on at 3pm let the load on the network is less than a typical day. Its industry that uses the majority of the electricity. Aughinish Smelter being a particularly heavy user and possibly the biggest consumer of electricity in the country.

    But they calculate for that. Its a balancing game. If the system is suddenly overloaded without them knowing then it would collapse.


  • Options
    #69
    truebloodfan
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭truebloodfan


    storage heaters are crazy on electricity, which is why i moved house (renting) i worked out that my actually bill without storage heaters was 24 euro the other 250 was standing charge and storage heater(i knew cause its nightsaver and it was the only thing that was on at night. paying a bit extra rent a but am saving 160 at least every esb bill


  • Options
    #70
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    truebloodfan wrote: »
    storage heaters are crazy on electricity, which is why i moved house (renting) i worked out that my actually bill without storage heaters was 24 euro the other 250 was standing charge and storage heater(i knew cause its nightsaver and it was the only thing that was on at night. paying a bit extra rent a but am saving 160 at least every esb bill

    I'm afraid of the storage heaters. I think I'm going to get a little portable radiator and not touch the storage heater again.


  • Options
    #71
    eth0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭eth0


    Storage heaters are put into rented apartments because they're cheap to install and the landlord obviously doesn't pay to run them.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    saa
    Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭saa


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    I'm afraid of the storage heaters. I think I'm going to get a little portable radiator and not touch the storage heater again.

    I dunno I used my storage and fan heater nov-dec and my bill was 60
    bought an "energy efficient" thermal radiation portable heater, used it the same amount and my bill was 150 jan-feb


  • Options
    #73
    truebloodfan
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭truebloodfan


    will never forget the time i got a mad bill , rang esb up with correct reading, they then charged the small day unit reading at the nite saver price and the night units(storage heating) at day price. if that wasnt enough they proceeded to add that to the bill i had rang in to correct to get a total of 650 euro. and it took 2 more phone calls before they finally got it right. we should charge them an incompetence charge, lol


  • Options
    #74
    WhatNowForUs?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭WhatNowForUs?


    facemelter wrote: »
    In fairness to the ESB fuel is getting more and more expensive , and they comsume massive amouts compared to every day use , they've already slashed their workers pensions and pay. its not like your getting the worse deal out of everyone effect by them try to save money

    So we make the problem worse by making sure uber efficient people with their energy are made to use more.


  • Options
    #75
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    saa wrote: »
    I dunno I used my storage and fan heater nov-dec and my bill was 60
    bought an "energy efficient" thermal radiation portable heater, used it the same amount and my bill was 150 jan-feb

    How did you use your storage heater? Because I'm so worried about leaving it on all night. Just sounds like that will run up a massive bill.

    And this might be a stupid question, bear with me, if the nightsaver tariff runs to 7am do i have to get up at 7am to turn it off. Like if I sleep in till 8 and leave it running for this hour, that will negate all my good nightsaving energy work and charge me a fortune for the hour?


  • Options
    #76
    WhatNowForUs?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭WhatNowForUs?


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    How did you use your storage heater? Because I'm so worried about leaving it on all night. Just sounds like that will run up a massive bill.

    And this might be a stupid question, bear with me, if the nightsaver tariff runs to 7am do i have to get up at 7am to turn it off. Like if I sleep in till 8 and leave it running for this hour, that will negate all my good nightsaving energy work and charge me a fortune for the hour?

    Look for a timer on the heater. it should be there somewhere.


  • Options
    #77
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    To anyone defending this on grounds of it only hitting holiday homes etc: If you have a holiday home and you're not currently using any electricity in it, then you shouldn't have to pay any electricity bills for it. Simple as.
    An electricity bill is NOT a tax, it's a price you pay for receiving a product. If you're not using that product then there's no excuse for charging you for it.

    This is absolutely moronic.
    If they want to introduce a subscription charge or something they should be honest about it and say it like it is.

    Probably better just cutting the supply off. The charge is for the provision of the service, if you aren't using it, disconnect it.

    This charge seems stupid. Many people who have energy efficient home could get caught for it during the Summer.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Options
    #78
    eth0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭eth0


    The charge isn't really high enough to send people off the grid though. With holiday homes they would be hard to rent out if they were off the grid. Reconnection fee is high.

    Holiday homes are usually built cheap and fitted with electric everything in most cases so no problem burning through 25+ units a day when people are in it, then nothing for ages when they leave.


  • Options
    #79
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    woodoo wrote: »
    But they calculate for that. Its a balancing game. If the system is suddenly overloaded without them knowing then it would collapse.

    And this is somehow in our interest?

    I personally don't have a problem with the charge as it is really only going to affect those with second homes and unoccupied apartments (ie landlords and developers). It is not possible to run a home on less than 2 units a day, in fact the baseload for a typical house would well exceed that.

    One would have to be extremely green, or frugal to actually live on less than 2 units a day. - Thats about €11 a month (+ €12 standing charge). If you don't like it, change provider. Its that simple.


  • Options
    #80
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    eth0 wrote: »
    The charge isn't really high enough to send people off the grid though. With holiday homes they would be hard to rent out if they were off the grid. Reconnection fee is high.

    Holiday homes are usually built cheap and fitted with electric everything in most cases so no problem burning through 25+ units a day when people are in it, then nothing for ages when they leave.

    I think Airtricity now charge about €40/45 per disconnection/reconnection (assume ESB are near that) so if the holiday home wasn't used much from say October to April, cheaper to disconnect. Mightn't be advisable during a cold winter though!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Options
    #81
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    Sonnenblumen wrote: »
    afterall, the higher the consumption the higher the CO2 etc.

    No, not entirely, the CO2 is created at manufacture, a low or high domestic user has no further effect on CO2 production.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    RonMexico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭RonMexico


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOFkDoxXaGQ


  • Options
    #83
    Zen65
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    the groutch wrote: »
    it will be mostly 2nd homes or holiday homes effected, it's almost impossible to live on less than 2 units a day in a property

    This is correct.

    If you look at the appliance calculator on ESB's website you'll see how quickly your house uses more than 2 units per day.

    Personally I'm quite happy that Electric Ireland is bringing in this charge rather than simply raising the unit price for everyone. In effect this means that ESB are now giving discounts to people who use a decent amount of electricity (in the sense of being proportionate to the network infrastructure which was built to supply that electricity to their house).

    At 2 units per day this will really only affect the people wealthy enough to have a holiday home. Why should my electricity bill be increased to fund their inefficient use of infrastructure??

    I think the media are being disingenuous on this!

    Z


  • Options
    #84
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    Zen65 wrote: »
    I think the media are being disingenuous on this!
    Z

    I can take your point and agree with it, but, however, I'm in a disingenuous mood and it sends out the wrong message, if you save on electricity usage, we will charge you MORE>

    I think there is a vacancy in their PR department TBH.


  • Options
    #85
    Humans eh!
    Registered Users Posts: 403 ✭✭Humans eh!


    Biggins wrote: »
    Some are afraid to show they have a backbone - they fear our government might next, tax that too!

    This,
    Is
    Spinal
    Tax.

    :pac:


  • Options
    #86
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    And this is somehow in our interest?

    I personally don't have a problem with the charge as it is really only going to affect those with second homes and unoccupied apartments (ie landlords and developers). It is not possible to run a home on less than 2 units a day, in fact the baseload for a typical house would well exceed that.

    One would have to be extremely green, or frugal to actually live on less than 2 units a day. - Thats about €11 a month (+ €12 standing charge). If you don't like it, change provider. Its that simple.

    Its a dangerous precedent though. Who is to say they all won't be at it in a number of years and its at 10 units per day. They could always claim thats what they need to break even (even if its just pulled from their hat).


  • Options
    #87
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    Last question about storage heaters! How many hours should I put it on for over night?


  • Options
    #88
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    You'd have to be more than uber efficient to be using less than 2 units a day.... It's a free Market now, they can charge what they like..... Of course you could just change supplier to eirtricity, bordgais ect. ..... But that's what they want isn't it......

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Options
    #89
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Mr.Biscuits wrote: »
    Mate gave me an old electric heater there in the winter. Real heavy dute one that looked like a radiator, only larger. Needed it as the place we just moved into had no central heating due to gas pipes having burst and needing replacing.

    Anyway, two months later our two-month bill came in and I nearly passed out when I opened it: €1100!

    I phoned up and went Dizzee Rascal down the line. No way could we have used it. So the guy asked me what I was using and I mentioned the old electric radiator and he told me to switch everything off in the house and leave the heater on for two full hours exactly (taking a meter reading before and after) - which I did and phoned him with the numbers - and the bloody thing was only costing €3.20 per hour!! :eek:

    We had it on at least five hours a day for those two months!

    A 20 kilowatt electric heater? I'm not buying it. The energy has to go somewhere and that much doesn't just disappear.
    There's a few options:
    -It would make any room unbearably warm within a couple of minutes.
    -It would vibrate so quickly as to make the building it was in collapse.
    -It would make such loud noise that you would have had the Gardai around.
    -It emitted so much light that it could be seen from space.

    Or maybe it was all converted to potential energy by putting it in a space elevator. Whatever the case, I'm not buying it.


  • Options
    #90
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,033 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    The charge is to make up for the loss caused by admin for people who dont use enough. The other option is to increase the standing charge for everybody. Would you prefer to be subsidising someone else?

    As for the suggestions about trying to shutdown the system by causing an unexpected surge. Super idea!
    Stick it to the man! (the man who provides you with electricity)
    Seriously? What will you do if you do somehow cause an issue with your electricity provider? Light a candle and celebrate? :rolleyes:


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    bonzodog2
    Registered Users Posts: 6,210 ✭✭✭bonzodog2


    The standing charge should cover the costs of administering your account. Whether the current charge does so, and is the regulator to blame, is another question or two. The usage should be charged at a rate according to the cost of production, possibly with some discounting for volume users.

    Do pensioners still get free units, or did that morph into some kind of SW Fuel allowance ?


Advertisement