new powers

b_mac · 08-02-2014 10:53pm

Mc Jakester wrote: »

If and when we have to make an arrest!
and it goes to court. "When we get P.O powers" if its related to that!....
We as members will have to give evidence being the arresting member or as a witness...
We will be summoned to court, your employer will have to abide to the summons

Thought as much.

Would Chief Superintendent Raider care to explain why he says otherwise?

Santa Cruz · 09-02-2014 11:07am

Raider190 wrote: »

You have seem??? You are not a reserve or a full time member so how have you seen anything. If a GR makes an arrest it does not mean they have to turn up in court. Amy regular or reserve will know of the procedure I mean and this just reinforces my opinion the you are offering opinions on a subject which you are unqualified to do so.

Firstly you don't know anything about my career experience so you don't know what I have seen or not seen. Secondly if a Garda or a Reserve Garda (when they have powers of arrest) make an arrest and the case is not dealt with by a guilty plea it will be necessary for the arresting member to attend District court to prove the case. In addition if there is a subsequent appeal to the Circuit Court the presence of the member will also be required. I have seen cases drag through the District and Circuit Court from months in to years due to adjournments, defendants failing to turn up etc. I cannot see how a Reserve will be able to get time off rom their full time job for these court appearances.

Shield · 09-02-2014 11:43am

Moderator post:

Warning issued for baiting/sniping.

Don't get personal. Attack the post, never the poster.

No further comment on-thread about this post, please and thanks.

Back on topic...

b_mac wrote: »

Thought as much.

Would Chief Superintendent Raider care to explain why he says otherwise?

Canyon86 · 09-02-2014 1:26pm

Raider190 wrote: »

I am not talking down to anyone but you have no policing experience and have yet to be offered a position as a Garda reserve I am clearly stating the facts and whether or not you change your opinions well that is your concern .
If you are serious about joining the reserve I suggest you research exactly what it is we do and if you are not willing to accept a qualified opinion again that is your prerogative but an open mind and the ability to clearly define facts is s key quality both for a member of the regular and Reserve also a must for completing the hard training ahead of you should you be accepted.

I hope all GR aren't as up themselves as you! "I suggest" who are you to suggest anything to me?
You are a GR Raider not a bloody commissioner! Get over yourself !!!!

Shield · 09-02-2014 3:19pm

Moderator post:

Warning issued for baiting/sniping.

Don't get personal. Attack the post, never the poster.

No further comment on-thread about this post, please and thanks.

Back on topic...

Canyon86 wrote: »

I hope all GR aren't as up themselves as you! "I suggest" who are you to suggest anything to me?
You are a GR Raider not a bloody commissioner! Get over yourself !!!!

Raider190 · 09-02-2014 6:04pm

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Firstly you don't know anything about my career experience so you don't know what I have seen or not seen. Secondly if a Garda or a Reserve Garda (when they have powers of arrest) make an arrest and the case is not dealt with by a guilty plea it will be necessary for the arresting member to attend District court to prove the case. In addition if there is a subsequent appeal to the Circuit Court the presence of the member will also be required. I have seen cases drag through the District and Circuit Court from months in to years due to adjournments, defendants failing to turn up etc. I cannot see how a Reserve will be able to get time off rom their full time job for these court appearances.

I have completed duties at both aviva and croke park and have never seen any civilians attend the pre match briefing so unless you are privy to the events rostering procedure which is completed by senior Garda management I cannot give credence to your comments.

With regard to court appearances you are correct however approx 16% of public order cases result in the suspected offender going not guilty the remaining 84% go with a guilty plea. This is dealt with by means of a court presenter , a Garda sgt in most cases . This procedure was introduced some time ago in order to reduce the time spent in court by arresting Gardai . With regard to employers supporting their employees with time off I think you would surprised at the level of support some gr's receive from their respective employers. I know from a number of colleagues they have found no problem at all and in fact have been facilitated greatly in both court appearances and time off for the many courses which reserves are offered within AGS. Remember there are a lot of public spirited people who value what the GR do and commend their self sacrifice and dedication to their duties. Perhaps if we had more supporters rather than those who prefere to offer their ill informed opinions based on here say and google gathered information our society would be a better place for us all.

bluetop · 09-02-2014 6:36pm

All this talk about what if's, the powers have not been granted as yet so what is the point in this discussion its all hearsay and what do we know about hearsay.

As for having the powers and not using them well that will be down to the individual "remember" one thing about this when and i say when and if it happens you dont exercise your powers FT might be a little bit miffed that you are leaving them still with all the work load now that you have got the powers, so thats another thing in the pot.

As for having to do reports etc if you are worth your weight as a GR your colleagues will only be too happy to help and guide you in the way things need to be written, so your not on your own, and a lot of court stuff in now handled by court presenters.

As i have said about everything is up in the air so talking about it and even arguing about it is pointless, why not wait and see what come is it the cart before the horse as it always is.

Raider190 · 09-02-2014 6:45pm

bluetop wrote: »

All this talk about what if's, the powers have not been granted as yet so what is the point in this discussion its all hearsay and what do we know about hearsay.

As for having the powers and not using them well that will be down to the individual "remember" one thing about this when and i say when and if it happens you dont exercise your powers FT might be a little bit miffed that you are leaving them still with all the work load now that you have got the powers, so thats another thing in the pot.

As for having to do reports etc if you are worth your weight as a GR your colleagues will only be too happy to help and guide you in the way things need to be written, so your not on your own, and a lot of court stuff in now handled by court presenters.

As i have said about everything is up in the air so talking about it and even arguing about it is pointless, why not wait and see what come is it the cart before the horse as it always is.

Stated from a position of experience. Well said blue top.

Officially have been inform the process has begun and it won't be long before the commissioner signs off.

mfergus · 09-02-2014 7:42pm

Raider190 wrote: »

With regard to court appearances you are correct however approx 16% of public order cases result in the suspected offender going not guilty the remaining 84% go with a guilty plea. ll.

Did you just make up these statistics or is that how the 100% is actually broken down?

Edit: if on the off chance you didn't just make it up, can you provide a link? Or is this one of these "experience" things?

Kaizersoze81 · 09-02-2014 7:48pm

Raider190 wrote: »

With regard to court appearances you are correct however approx 16% of public order cases result in the suspected offender going not guilty the remaining 84% go with a guilty plea. This is dealt with by means of a court presenter , a Garda sgt in most cases . This procedure was introduced some time ago in order to reduce the time spent in court by arresting Gardai .

Wrong. They might go guilty, but they'll do it after the solicitors have looked for a hearing date. This requires the guard to attend court in anticipation that a hearing will be taking place. The vast majority of them then plead guilty on the hearing date, thus wasting the guards time, and making more money for the solicitors. The system is a joke. If somebody looks for a hearing date then they should be presumed they are going ahead with it, and not have the opportunity to plead guilty at the last minute. Its a handy earner for the solicitors, thats all.

Raider190 · 09-02-2014 8:26pm

mfergus wrote: »

Did you just make up these statistics or is that how the 100% is actually broken down?

Edit: if on the off chance you didn't just make it up, can you provide a link? Or is this one of these "experience" things?

If you are a member am sure you will know where to research the facts

Raider190 · 09-02-2014 8:32pm

Kaizersoze81 wrote: »

Wrong. They might go guilty, but they'll do it after the solicitors have looked for a hearing date. This requires the guard to attend court in anticipation that a hearing will be taking place. The vast majority of them then plead guilty on the hearing date, thus wasting the guards tvtime, and making more money for the solicitors. The system is a joke. If somebody looks for a hearing date then they should be presumed they are going ahead with it, and not have the opportunity to plead guilty at the last minute. Its a handy earner for the solicitors, thats all.

Sorry dont agree have been involved in many Po cases and have rarely had to appear or has my full time colleague. Maybe it's a case that I have been lucky or the offenders have been co operative in putting their hands up and going guilty

Shield · 11-02-2014 6:17am

Moderator post:

Folks can we please get this back on-topic instead of talking about stats, where to find them internally, and so on.

This thread is (I would have imagined) about the new powers Garda Reserve will have, what they will be/should be, whether serving GR and/or regular full-time members are happy with this, etc..

Back let's get this back into a thread that kinda, sorta resembles the above?

Thanks, and back on topic please.

Raider190 · 11-02-2014 9:11am

I for one will be delighted when the new powers are finally devolved.

Raider190 · 11-02-2014 9:35am

mfergus wrote: »

Did you just make up these statistics or is that how the 100% is actually broken down?

Edit: if on the off chance you didn't just make it up, can you provide a link? Or is this one of these "experience" things?

No link available I am sorry wish there was but not possible

Raider190 · 11-02-2014 9:39am

Kaizersoze81 wrote: »

Wrong. They might go guilty, but they'll do it after the solicitors have looked for a hearing date. This requires the guard to attend court in anticipation that a hearing will be taking place. The vast majority of them then plead guilty on the hearing date, thus wasting the guards time, and making more money for the solicitors. The system is a joke. If somebody looks for a hearing date then they should be presumed they are going ahead with it, and not have the opportunity to plead guilty at the last minute. Its a handy earner for the solicitors, thats all.

Do agree on your point regarding solicitors . The minimum rate is I believe 250 euros for first hearing and 50 euro after that . I would assume it changes depending on which court district , circuit etc

Raider190 · 11-02-2014 9:48am

Canyon86 wrote: »

Well raider,

Look at it this way, give all reserves full public order powers, that will greatly reduce the need for X number of full timers to be on shift, obviously some ft will be on duty, but it will reduce,

To the public they won't notice any different, this is what agree,
Also the student gardai are getting shafted with pay, no question, and this is as Santa Cruz says similar to nurses etc, or do you believe the pay etc is fantastic raider?

My intentions for joining the reserves are outlined previously,

As you are no doubt aware the soon to be devolved powers are in fact full public order powers

I would be very interested for you to expand on this why the full time requirement would reduce. If the average unit is say for instance 15 members or so depending on what station you are in and the average number of reserves for that unit is say 4 and those reserve comply to the minimum hours required of 208 per year and report for duty say 2 days per month how will this reduce the number of full timers required.

As for the public I would never underestimate them they know exactly what the difference between a regular and the reserve.

Let's take the rate of pay. Given that the average age of a trainee Garda may be somewhere between 18 and 28 their expectations of achieving a high salary may not be the same for some older age groups. Taking into account that any individual who puts themselves in harms way in order to protect our citizens should be given the rewards that such commitment deserves it is never going to happen. Any career which involves a vocation will always be abused by the powers that be. So no I do not believe the pay is fantastic but if you speak to any professional Garda the pay is not the driving motive to doing the job. You have stated that you are attempting to join the reserve and for our services we are paid nothing so you must have seriously thought why exactly you are willing to put yourself in harms way. I know I seriously thought about it before I joined

Canyon86 · 11-02-2014 10:36am

Raider190 wrote: »

I would be very interested for you to expand on this . If the average unit is say for instance 15 members or so depending on what station you are in and the average number of reserves for that unit is say 4 and those reserve comply to the minimum hours required of 208 per year and report for duty say 2 days per month how will this reduce the number of full timers required.

Raider I made a promise to myself not to respond to your comments as I ll end up losing my cool and getting banned,you ll understand this

regards

Canyon

Raider190 · 11-02-2014 10:59am

Canyon86 wrote: »

Raider I made a promise to myself not to respond to your comments as I ll end up losing my cool and getting banned,you ll understand this

regards

Canyon

That's fine thought you would may wish to expand on your comments as you intend to join my self and my colleagues in the Garda Reserve and I was trying to understand the logic behind them. Understand if you feel unable to justify your comments with an explanation but if you do make it you may realise that your preceptions change as I know mine certainly did. How an organisation looks from the outside to the uninitiated is totally different when you are working within it on a regular basis

Canyon86 · 11-02-2014 11:02am

Raider190 wrote: »

That's fine thought you would may wish to expand on your comments as you intend to join my self and my colleagues in the Garda Reserve and I was trying to understand the logic behind them. Understand if you feel unable to justify your comments with an explanation but if you do make it you may realise that your preceptions change as I know mine certainly did. How an organisation looks from the outside to the uninitiated is totally different when you are working within it on a regular basis

Glad you understand Raider,

snams · 11-02-2014 11:04am

Appreciation Day for Garda Reserve members takes place on the 22 February in my division. How about the other divisions? Do you have such thing? It might be that date when the powers are going to be released...

Raider190 · 11-02-2014 11:11am

snams wrote: »

Appreciation Day for Garda Reserve members takes place on the 22 February in my division. How about the other divisions? Do you have such thing? It might be that date when the powers are going to be released...

Have heard nothing in my division

Raider190 · 11-02-2014 4:25pm

http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/2014/01/seanad-adjournment-debate-garda-reserve-speech-by-minister-john-perry-td-on-behalf-of-minister-for-justice-equality-and-defence-alan-shatter-td/Crime & Justice

Published on Tuesday 28th January 2014
Seanad Adjournment Debate – Garda Reserve – Speech by Minister John Perry TD, on behalf of Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence Alan Shatter TD
Senator Martin Conway
The need for the Minister for Justice Defence and Equality to make a statement on his plans for the future of the Garda Reserve in particular whether its function could be extended to providing crime prevention advice to the elderly living alone.
Speech by Minister John Perry TD, on behalf of Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence Alan Shatter TD
On behalf of the Minister for Justice and Equality, who is unavoidably detained elsewhere, I would like to thank the Senator for raising this important matter.
As the Senator will be aware, the Garda Reserve was established to enhance the links between the Garda Síochána and local communities through the deployment of locally recruited volunteers who operate in support of full-time colleagues. There are currently 1,164 attested Reserve Gardaí with a further 99 at various stages of training. Garda Reserve members make a real and tangible contribution to the policing right across the country and the Minister and Government are fully supportive of its continued development. In this regard, recruitment to the Reserve and training of new Reserve members is ongoing.
Under section 15 (5) of the Garda Síochána Act, the range of powers and duties of a member of the Garda Reserve is a matter for the Garda Commissioner to determine. The Garda Commissioner initially determined that the duties of a Garda reserve member shall include the following:-
· Station duty, other than the care and custody of prisoners.
· Assistant to the station orderly.
· Communications room duty, to include monitoring CCTV.
· Foot patrol, accompanied by a member of the full-time Garda service.
· Static security duty.
· Road Traffic checkpoint duties, accompanied by a full time member.
· Duty at the outer cordon of major events such as festivals and major sporting events.
· Assisting in the event of accidents, fires and major emergencies.
· Giving evidence in court.
· Community / Neighbourhood Policing.
During 2012 the Garda Commissioner carried out an internal review of the Reserve and has since decided to extend their powers and functions of Garda Reserve Members to such areas as domestic violence, child protection, conflict resolution, Garda policy on bullying and harassment, out of vehicle safety training (OVST), first aid and ample probe training. Continuous Professional Development courses are also to be provided annually to Garda Reserves on a Divisional basis. Training in these new areas commenced in 2012, and almost all of the Reserve members have now been trained in the new powers. The following provisions were also introduced:
· The provision of a Mentor/Tutor Garda for the Garda Reserve.
· Formal appraisal system.
· All Garda Reserves to be issued with TETRA radios when going on duty.
· Powers under the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Acts 1994 to 2011, and Section 41 of the Road Traffic Act 1961 as amended, in relation to the seizure of vehicles.
· Garda Reserves will issue Fixed Charged Penalty Notices and serve summonses.
· The Garda Reserves’ role and various functions will be communicated to full-time members through mediums such as promotion courses, the Continuous Professional Development (CPD) programme and the Garda Portal.
· Exit interviews will be conducted.
It is not intended to further extend the powers of Garda Reserves at this time. It must be borne in mind that the Reserves are a part-time element of the force and while a great asset to the Gardaí, cannot be expected to perform the same roles as fully trained members.
As regards the specific role the Senator raises, in this context I would like to point out that community policing is the underpinning philosophy and ethos through which all members of the Garda Síochána, including Garda Reserve members, deliver policing services across the country and a key area of this policy is in crime prevention. The Garda Síochána National Model of Community Policing requires each District Officer to establish a Community Policing Team in their District within the context of available resources. Garda Reserves are involved at the heart of the community through the role they play every time they attend for duty. Notwithstanding this, it is not expected that Garda Reserve members will be assigned specifically to Community Policing roles.
In conclusion, I can, on behalf of the Minister, assure the Senator that the Government is and will continue to be, fully committed to the Garda Reserve and indeed recruitment is ongoing to further strengthen and reinforce the Reserve.
Tags: Garda Reserve, Minister Alan Shatter, Seanad Adjournment Debate

This should make the situation clearer for a lot of posters

Mc Jakester · 12-02-2014 7:29am

snams wrote: »

Appreciation Day for Garda Reserve members takes place on the 22 February in my division. How about the other divisions? Do you have such thing? It might be that date when the powers are going to be released...

I haven't heard of that!
Are they getting the Garda band in! lol...
Let us know how you get on.
I wonder who came up with that idea..

Scouser · 12-02-2014 9:34am

snams wrote: »

Appreciation Day for Garda Reserve members takes place on the 22 February in my division. How about the other divisions? Do you have such thing? It might be that date when the powers are going to be released...

everyday is appreciation day on my patch

Yogi Bear · 25-02-2014 4:20pm

snams wrote: »

Appreciation Day for Garda Reserve members takes place on the 22 February in my division. How about the other divisions? Do you have such thing? It might be that date when the powers are going to be released...

How did the appreciation night go for ye? Any news on date powers being released??

bluetop · 26-02-2014 1:15am

snams wrote: »

Appreciation Day for Garda Reserve members takes place on the 22 February in my division. How about the other divisions? Do you have such thing? It might be that date when the powers are going to be released...

Ya and the cat and the fiddle might jump over the moon as well !! :eek:

Mc Jakester · 26-02-2014 7:59am

With regards to these new powers...
I'd say they will roll out when final recruitment of GR's happens ... I believe it's soon, but !
With the full time recruitment launched, numbers will fluctuate, which is normal...
It's more the traffic powers needed if you do a lot of check points or on the beat...Detecting mobile phones, parking offensives stuff like that.. Or the odd Section 41. Public order would come in handy if your based in busy town which tends to public order incidents...
Nice to have but, pass the collar to the full timer ! Or get stuck in! Courts and paper work love GR's.. Don't be shy!

bluetop · 27-02-2014 1:30am

Mc Jakester wrote: »

With regards to these new powers...
I'd say they will roll out when final recruitment of GR's happens ... I believe it's soon, but !
With the full time recruitment launched, numbers will fluctuate, which is normal...
It's more the traffic powers needed if you do a lot of check points or on the beat...Detecting mobile phones, parking offensives stuff like that.. Or the odd Section 41. Public order would come in handy if your based in busy town which tends to public order incidents...
Nice to have but, pass the collar to the full timer ! Or get stuck in! Courts and paper work love GR's.. Don't be shy!

Hate to burst your bubble but passing your collar so to speak to your full time colleague will not go down to well, you arrest you prosecute play the game or face what might happen.

D Trent · 27-02-2014 1:43am

Mc Jakester wrote: »

With regards to these new powers...
I'd say they will roll out when final recruitment of GR's happens ... I believe it's soon, but !
With the full time recruitment launched, numbers will fluctuate, which is normal...
It's more the traffic powers needed if you do a lot of check points or on the beat...Detecting mobile phones, parking offensives stuff like that.. Or the odd Section 41. Public order would come in handy if your based in busy town which tends to public order incidents...
Nice to have but, pass the collar to the full timer ! Or get stuck in! Courts and paper work love GR's.. Don't be shy!

What is meant by 'final recruitment of Garda reserves' ?

Mc Jakester · 27-02-2014 8:20am

D Trent wrote: »

What is meant by 'final recruitment of Garda reserves' ?

I spoke to the staff in the college and they informed me that HR are starting to slow recruitment as numbers are maxing out. Who knows! Numbers will always go up and down..! Just no big push on anytime soon!

Mc Jakester · 27-02-2014 8:25am

bluetop wrote: »

Hate to burst your bubble but passing your collar so to speak to your full time colleague will not go down to well, you arrest you prosecute play the game or face what might happen.

As I said!
Or get stuck in! Courts and paper work love GR's.. Don't be shy!

snams · 27-02-2014 11:19am

Yogi Bear wrote: »

How did the appreciation night go for ye? Any news on date powers being released??

I don't know, haven't been there.

snams · 27-02-2014 11:42am

bluetop wrote: »

Ya and the cat and the fiddle might jump over the moon as well !! :eek:

Never heard of this before. I've heard of a microwave once...

Raider190 · 01-03-2014 2:09pm

Mc Jakester wrote: »

As I said!
Or get stuck in! Courts and paper work love GR's.. Don't be shy!

It's all part of the job. The paper work is not that tough . Have prepared a number of incidents for my unit buddies in order to get some practise in and gone to court as a witness on two really serious cases . So don't be worried when the new powers come on board it's not brain surgery . The first court appearance will be a little daunting but it's all about experience

thestar · 01-03-2014 2:13pm

Raider190 wrote: »

It's all part of the job. The paper work is not that tough . Have prepared a number of incidents for my unit buddies in order to get some practise in and gone to court as a witness on two really serious cases . So don't be worried when the new powers come on board it's not brain surgery . The first court appearance will be a little daunting but it's all about experience

I take it you in a busy city station? I know reserves who tell me they do very little, a couple of lads have basically told me that they are just shadowing the full time guarda. They definitely don't create incidents or go to court.

Raider190 · 01-03-2014 2:13pm

bluetop wrote: »

Ya and the cat and the fiddle might jump over the moon as well !! :eek:

Keep positive blue top they are coming paper work courses are been arranged for those who are making the effort to find out about them

thestar · 01-03-2014 2:23pm

I don't think it's right that any Reserve should be expected to go to court for nothing, yes it may be a good experience but its shameful the disrespect that has been shown to reserves through this recruitment process. It's a real shame that so many are in band 2 and cant understand why people are sticking at it. One would do more of a service to their community by going into a nursing home singing to old people, why volunteer for an organisation that don't care less if these people become part of the full time force?

Scouser · 01-03-2014 2:33pm

thestar wrote: »

guarda.

:eek:

thestar · 01-03-2014 2:34pm

Scouser wrote: »

:eek:

Your a pretty sad individual in fairness

Scouser · 01-03-2014 2:44pm

thestar wrote: »

Your a pretty sad individual in fairness

Hows the masters going?

thestar · 01-03-2014 2:46pm

Scouser wrote: »

Hows the masters going?

Very bad, do you want to do my thesis?

Scouser · 01-03-2014 2:48pm

thestar wrote: »

Very bad, do you want to do my thesis?

nah been there

worth it in the end!

'suffer today and live the rest of your life like a champion'

Raider190 · 01-03-2014 2:52pm

thestar wrote: »

I take it you in a busy city station? I know reserves who tell me they do very little, a couple of lads have basically told me that they are just shadowing the full time guarda. They definitely don't create incidents or go to court.

You get out of it what you put into it. I'm very lucky working with a great unit set and cig who encourage reserves to get stuck in with the rest of the unit. This has lead to me been accepted as member of the unit , been included in a lot of operations and been sent on a number of internal courses

thestar · 01-03-2014 2:53pm

Well if you join the guards this certainly wont be the case..

thestar · 01-03-2014 2:55pm

Raider190 wrote: »

You get out of it what you put into it. I'm very lucky working with a great unit set and cig who encourage reserves to get stuck in with the rest of the unit. This has lead to me been accepted as member of the unit , been included in a lot of operations and been sent on a number of internal courses

Fair play to you, hopefully you will be getting paid to do it some time in the future

Raider190 · 01-03-2014 2:55pm

thestar wrote: »

I don't think it's right that any Reserve should be expected to go to court for nothing, yes it may be a good experience but its shameful the disrespect that has been shown to reserves through this recruitment process. It's a real shame that so many are in band 2 and cant understand why people are sticking at it. One would do more of a service to their community by going into a nursing home singing to old people, why volunteer for an organisation that don't care less if these people become part of the full time force?

It is what it is. Some of us would not have the apptitude for that type of work. I myself love the variety , the robust nature of the job and the excitement element

Raider190 · 01-03-2014 2:56pm

thestar wrote: »

Well if you join the guards this certainly wont be the case..

What do you mean??????

Raider190 · 01-03-2014 2:58pm

Scouser wrote: »

:eek:

A bit picky there who of us have not made a typo I know I do it all the time

thestar · 01-03-2014 2:59pm

Scouser wrote: »

nah been there

worth it in the end!

'suffer today and live the rest of your life like a champion'

I was quoting Scouser saying that he wont be living like a champion if he joins AGS. Any Guard I tell that I'm hoping to join and that I'm doing a masters at the moment tell me that I'm crazy, the amount of Gardai that moan about their job is ridiculous

new powers

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