Calling All Naturalised Irish and Non White Registered Voters

Duke Leonal Felmet · 24-02-2011 2:43pm

I would like to take his opportunity to declare myself a non-racist.

(Of course, that is what you would expect a racist to say.)

:rolos:

Scotty # · 24-02-2011 2:43pm

rebel10 wrote: »

In this day and age people cannot presume anything about the person they are talking to.

...coz if they do, they'll be branded a racist!

rebel10 · 24-02-2011 2:43pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I wouldn't make that assumption to be fair, though I'm from Dublin. In the cities - particularly Dublin and Belfast there are plenty of non-white/mixed race Irish people.

I think you will find that there are plenty of non white/mixed race Irish people all over the country, and not confined to the cities.

mikemac · 24-02-2011 2:45pm

You're overreacting OP

And many times I've answered the door to salesmen or canvassers and get asked if my parents are in and they don't want to talk to me. But I'm over 18 and my money and vote is as good as anybody elses

I don't come here screaming ageism

analucija · 24-02-2011 2:48pm

rebel10 wrote: »

In this day and age people cannot presume anything about the person they are talking to.

No, but if they do, that doesn't make them racist just ignorant. I hate racism but I can't say that I was ever victim of racism here and Irish at least where I live seem to be a lot less racist than people on the continent. I actually think that native irish are sometimes discriminated against a lot more than foreigners.

That being said things are never perfect.

rebel10 · 24-02-2011 2:50pm

feelingstressed wrote: »

You're overreacting OP

And many times I've answered the door to salesmen or canvassers and get asked if my parents are in and they don't want to talk to me. But I'm over 18 and my money and vote is as good as anybody elses

I don't come here screaming ageism

Well many do come on here complaining of incidents like that. The Op is more than entitled to have a rant, just like anybody else.

rebel10 · 24-02-2011 2:54pm

analucija wrote: »

No, but if they do, that doesn't make them racist just ignorant. I hate racism but I can't say that I was ever victim of racism here and Irish at least where I live seem to be a lot less racist than people on the continent. I actually think that native irish are sometimes discriminated against a lot more than foreigners.

That being said things are never perfect.

Well I am glad you have had good experiences in Ireland, but my original point was that it was ignorance. My response about racism was to another poster who spoke about the travelling community here, that this is unacceptable.

Duke Leonal Felmet · 24-02-2011 2:57pm

A question based on the dispute, above. If I were to perform a statistical social study and my conclusion was:

In the US, proportionally speaking, African-Americans are more likely to break the law than Caucasian-Americans.

Would that make me a racist? I don't think so. We all know that the reason why this statistic might be true is due to a lack of social justice and not because of racial identity. But the statement is a fact, nonetheless.

Hysterical application of racial equality can lead to needless censorship and misplaced character defamation. Care must be taken.

analucija · 24-02-2011 3:03pm

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

A question based on the dispute, above. If I were to perform a statistical social study and my conclusion was:

In the US, proportionally speaking, African-Americans are more likely to break the law than Caucasian-Americans.

Would that make me a racist? I don't think so. We all know that the reason why this statistic might be true is due to a lack of social justice and not because of racial identity. But the statement is a fact, nonetheless.

Hysterical application of racial equality can lead to needless censorship and misplaced character defamation. Care must be taken.

That analogy doesn't work. In your case it would have to be assumed that every black person is a criminal. Stereotypes can be very damaging but the one listed above is only a bit silly.

Buceph · 24-02-2011 3:04pm

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

In the US, proportionally speaking, African-Americans are more likely to break the law than Caucasian-Americans.

That's not quite correct. African-Americans are found guilty of breaking the law more often than Caucasian Americans, proportionally. There's no real way of knowing who is breaking the law the most.

d'Oracle · 24-02-2011 3:23pm

dublin99 wrote: »

Please look at this blog:

http://www.mamanpoulet.com/racial-profiling-on-the-canvass/

To deduce a party strategy from the actions of one canvasser is a little prejudiced, isn't it?

Monty Burnz · 24-02-2011 3:29pm

Squirm wrote: »

Both my mother and my mother-in-law have experienced THE EXACT SAME lines from Sky Broadband door-to-door sellers!!! I wonder if they are being briefed to try and sell to the "man of the house"...?? Or if this is just a more sexist society than I realised!!

It's more likely just a chance to pitch to somebody else in the house from a different angle - Sky Sports etc.

I don't think we are that backwards.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 24-02-2011 3:30pm

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

A question based on the dispute, above. If I were to perform a statistical social study and my conclusion was:

In the US, proportionally speaking, African-Americans are more likely to break the law than Caucasian-Americans.

Would that make me a racist? I don't think so. We all know that the reason why this statistic might be true is due to a lack of social justice and not because of racial identity. But the statement is a fact, nonetheless.

Hysterical application of racial equality can lead to needless censorship and misplaced character defamation. Care must be taken.

I think I know what you mean but the way you've worded that could appear a bit racist.

Like it sounds as if African Americans are inherantly more likely to commit crime, whereas the reality is they are just more likely to come from socially disadvantaged backgrounds where crime is more commonplace.

Duke Leonal Felmet · 24-02-2011 3:40pm

analucija wrote: »

That analogy doesn't work. In your case it would have to be assumed that every black person is a criminal. Stereotypes can be very damaging but the one listed above is only a bit silly.

Garbage, a perfect example of hysteria at play. Where in the statement doe it imply that? Do you know what proportionality is?

You are a perfect example of my point.

Duke Leonal Felmet · 24-02-2011 3:41pm

Buceph wrote: »

That's not quite correct. African-Americans are found guilty of breaking the law more often than Caucasian Americans, proportionally. There's no real way of knowing who is breaking the law the most.

Good point, but its a simple thought exercise. A dangerous effort on this forum, I know...

Duke Leonal Felmet · 24-02-2011 3:43pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I think I know what you mean but the way you've worded that could appear a bit racist.

Like it sounds as if African Americans are inherantly more likely to commit crime, whereas the reality is they are just more likely to come from socially disadvantaged backgrounds where crime is more commonplace.

Yeah, more care should be taken, but it isnt a racist statement. People need to realise this.

analucija · 24-02-2011 3:50pm

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Garbage, a perfect example of hysteria at play. Where in the statement doe it imply that? Do you know what proportionality is?

You are a perfect example of my point.

And you are a perfect example of somebody that doesn't know how to make analogies.

The canvaser in first post assumed: the person is black, statistically less likely to speak english, so i'm going to assume that he/she doesn't.

You example goes: the person is black, statistically more likely being a criminal... and then it ends...

The first example leads to certain action, yours doesn't, it is incomplete and completely invalid.

Duke Leonal Felmet · 24-02-2011 4:00pm

analucija wrote: »

And you are a perfect example of somebody that doesn't know how to make analogies.

The canvaser in first post assumed: the person is black, statistically less likely to speak english, so i'm going to assume that he/she doesn't.

You example goes: the person is black, statistically more likely being a criminal... and then it ends...

The first example leads to certain action, yours doesn't, it is incomplete and completely invalid.

I wasn't referring to the OP. So I guess that makes you a perfect example of a poster who breezes through threads, half-reading the content and then wasting peoples time with 'invalid' posts.

:sighface:

analucija · 24-02-2011 4:07pm

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

I wasn't referring to the OP. So I guess that makes you a perfect example of a poster who breezes through threads, half-reading the content and then wasting peoples time with 'invalid' posts.

:sighface:

A question based on the dispute, above.

So this was not referring to to the OP and I was half-reading?

rebel10 · 24-02-2011 4:09pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

It's more likely just a chance to pitch to somebody else in the house from a different angle - Sky Sports etc.

I don't think we are that backwards.

Then why not say "Can I speak to someone else in the house that may be interested?" He firstly shouldn't have said to me "Can I speak to your husband, he probably has the final say." And, secondly, he should not have assumed anything. Trust me, he was that backward.

Duke Leonal Felmet · 24-02-2011 4:11pm

analucija wrote: »

So this was not referring to to the OP and I was half-reading?

No, I was referring to the post where the accusation was made of another posters post.

Sigh.

analucija · 24-02-2011 4:30pm

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

No, I was referring to the post where the accusation was made of another posters post.

Sigh.

Ah, that makes sense. Silly me.

Scotty # · 24-02-2011 5:45pm

This theory that the canvaser presumed the lady in question could not speak English is a load of rubbish IMO. It is based on the fact that the canvaser spoke in a raised voice. I have sales people call to the door a couple of times a week and I find most of them talk in a raised voice. It's a 'sales' thing. Talk loudly, clearly, and with confidence and you'll give a much better pitch.

This whole issue is bulls**t in my opinion. The 'victim' has gone to the trouble of posting several posts on boards, contacted well know bloggers and organisations, and even gone to the trouble of chasing Hannafin down to confront her over it. And why? because a canvaser thought she may not have a vote because she's non-white. It's ridiculous!

Is imitating a Chinese accent and asking people if they have a vote the extent of racism in Ireland? I doubt it. Couldn't anti-racism efforts/education be much better spent elsewhere? Where maybe there is real racism going on.

RetroBate · 24-02-2011 8:36pm

Scotty # wrote: »

Is imitating a Chinese accent and asking people if they have a vote the extent of racism in Ireland? I doubt it. Couldn't anti-racism efforts/education be much better spent elsewhere? Where maybe there is real racism going on.

Like with travellers.

Travellers have been discriminated against for donkeys years. The OP will never be mistaken for a traveller. If he/she was then he/she would know what real racism was.

MM would never have dared immitate a traveller accent which only goes to show taking off someones accent isn't a sign of racism except maybe in a university sociology department.

dublin99 · 25-02-2011 12:44am

Wow looking at the posts on this thread, a few conclusions can be made: Many of the posters manifest the type behaviour/ attitude of subtle racism. I have no idea if this is representative of the wider population, let’s hope it is not!

To those who referred to Afro-Americans being more likely to be criminals, you may not be aware that President George W. Bush issued a Racial Profiling Directive ten years ago in 2001 to condemn racial profiling. To quote : Racial Profiling is wrong and will not be tolerated. Racial profiling sends the dehumanizing message to our citizens that they are judged by the colour of the skin and harms the criminal justice system by eviscerating the trust that is necessary if law enforcement is to effectively protect our communities.

The views of some of the posters and their apparent ignorant to subtle everyday racism only confirms what we know about the problem – that people are not conscious that they are acting in a racist manner – but the fact that they are unconscious of it does not mean that it can be passed off as ignorant. Why did MM apologise if his impersonation of the Chinese accent wasn’t offensive? Without going into details of detailed complex academic studies etc, maybe some of you may get a better idea from this article by the British Journal of Medical Practitioners “Uncovering the face of racism in the workplace” (http://www.bjmp.org/content/uncovering-face-racism-workplace) which defines racism as “A belief that some races or ethnic groups are superior to others, used to devise and justify actions that create inequality between racial groups.” This is exactly the belief that some posters have manifested. It goes on to describe the subtlety of racism :“Like a virus that has mutated, racism has evolved into a new form that is difficult to recognise and harder to combat”

An African born Irish citizen told me last week that he was called a N*gger by a two year old Irish toddler. I wonder where the kid learned his vocabulary?

As to illegal immigrants, it is a fact that there are a large number of illegal immigrants (partly thanks to a corrupt government which for years were issuing visitors/student visas to anyone who paid a middleman), but did anyone of you vote for that government? What percentage of coloured people are actually illegal immigrants? Is it fair to treat all coloured people in a discriminatory manner and assume they are all illegal immigrants and speak little English?

As to the travellers, I have to admit I have few opportunities to come across them, but I note that Irish Equality legislation prohibits discrimination on 9 grounds : being a member of a traveller group is one of them.

I am glad that there are those who believe in Equality and work towards the promotion of Diversity and Integration. The Count Us In Campaign may not have succeeded in terms of educating people, but it highlights the difficulties faced by many and is a positive first step in raising awareness amongst the public of potentially serious social problems that may result, as we have seen in other countries. We all have a duty to work towards creating an equal society and a true multicultural Ireland.

dsmythy · 25-02-2011 12:57am

So we're all racists by god!

http://www.thejournal.ie/election-candidates-2011/cork-north-central/benjamin-ashu-ashu-arrah/

wants: Legislation to compel asylum seekers to find work and deport them if they don’t.

Another damn racist...

Scotty # · 25-02-2011 1:20am

No one here is denying that there is racism in Ireland. But... asking someone if they have a vote is not racism. In no way, by your own definition quoted above, did she make herself out to be 'superior' to you. If you looked typically Irish but answered the door with a heavy Scottish accent and she asked if you had a vote would it be so offensive? Or is it only if you are non-white?

Please don't compare what happened to you to 2 years olds being called n****r. They are worlds apart.

Duke Leonal Felmet · 25-02-2011 6:20am

dublin99 wrote: »

Wow looking at the posts on this thread, a few conclusions can be made: Many of the posters manifest the type behaviour/ attitude of subtle racism. I have no idea if this is representative of the wider population, let’s hope it is not!

To those who referred to Afro-Americans being more likely to be criminals, you may not be aware that President George W. Bush issued a Racial Profiling Directive ten years ago in 2001 to condemn racial profiling. To quote : Racial Profiling is wrong and will not be tolerated. Racial profiling sends the dehumanizing message to our citizens that they are judged by the colour of the skin and harms the criminal justice system by eviscerating the trust that is necessary if law enforcement is to effectively protect our communities.

The views of some of the posters and their apparent ignorant to subtle everyday racism only confirms what we know about the problem – that people are not conscious that they are acting in a racist manner – but the fact that they are unconscious of it does not mean that it can be passed off as ignorant. Why did MM apologise if his impersonation of the Chinese accent wasn’t offensive? Without going into details of detailed complex academic studies etc, maybe some of you may get a better idea from this article by the British Journal of Medical Practitioners “Uncovering the face of racism in the workplace” (http://www.bjmp.org/content/uncovering-face-racism-workplace) which defines racism as “A belief that some races or ethnic groups are superior to others, used to devise and justify actions that create inequality between racial groups.” This is exactly the belief that some posters have manifested. It goes on to describe the subtlety of racism :“Like a virus that has mutated, racism has evolved into a new form that is difficult to recognise and harder to combat”

An African born Irish citizen told me last week that he was called a N*gger by a two year old Irish toddler. I wonder where the kid learned his vocabulary?

As to illegal immigrants, it is a fact that there are a large number of illegal immigrants (partly thanks to a corrupt government which for years were issuing visitors/student visas to anyone who paid a middleman), but did anyone of you vote for that government? What percentage of coloured people are actually illegal immigrants? Is it fair to treat all coloured people in a discriminatory manner and assume they are all illegal immigrants and speak little English?

As to the travellers, I have to admit I have few opportunities to come across them, but I note that Irish Equality legislation prohibits discrimination on 9 grounds : being a member of a traveller group is one of them.

I am glad that there are those who believe in Equality and work towards the promotion of Diversity and Integration. The Count Us In Campaign may not have succeeded in terms of educating people, but it highlights the difficulties faced by many and is a positive first step in raising awareness amongst the public of potentially serious social problems that may result, as we have seen in other countries. We all have a duty to work towards creating an equal society and a true multicultural Ireland.

Here, we witness a more 'subtle' form of hysteria. Note how yet again my point has been taken too literally and probably half read, but this was expected...

Trying to use analogies in this forum is a dangerous game.

Pauleta · 25-02-2011 9:00am

I have no doubt that the OP is from the Boyd-Barrett campaign trying to discredit somebody before the vote. More disgraceful tactics from the far-left.

Noreen1 · 25-02-2011 10:25am

Squirm wrote: »

Both my mother and my mother-in-law have experienced THE EXACT SAME lines from Sky Broadband door-to-door sellers!!! I wonder if they are being briefed to try and sell to the "man of the house"...?? Or if this is just a more sexist society than I realised!!

I like to dabble in satellite, and computer building, nothing major, just a hobby.
You wouldn't believe the number of comments about how "unusual" it is.
The strange thing is - I get as many comments from women as I do men.

Stereotyping might be a better description than sexism, (or racism, since I'm Irish) since most people, after their initial surprise, tend to say something along the lines of "Fair play to you".

Calling All Naturalised Irish and Non White Registered Voters

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