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Sexual assault...but sure he's a nice lad..Mod Warning Post 275

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    #92
    ash23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    paddyirishman85 wrote: »
    From what I gather after reading the articles and most of this thread, the 50 people shook hands with the guy BEFORE the trial, before the judge entered the court. Innocent until proven guilty. At that point, he had not been convicted of the crime.

    It was prior to sentencing. He had been convicted.


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    #93
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    No, they shook hand with him before sentencing, he had already been convicted and found guilty.


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    #94
    F-Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 763 ✭✭✭F-Stop


    paddyirishman85 wrote: »
    From what I gather after reading the articles and most of this thread, the 50 people shook hands with the guy BEFORE the trial, before the judge entered the court. Innocent until proven guilty. At that point, he had not been convicted of the crime.

    No, he'd been found guilty by a jury two weeks earlier. This happened before the sentencing.


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    #95
    cch
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭cch


    paddyirishman85 wrote: »
    From what I gather after reading the articles and most of this thread, the 50 people shook hands with the guy BEFORE the trial, before the judge entered the court. Innocent until proven guilty. At that point, he had not been convicted of the crime.

    Nope, he had been found guilty but not given his sentence by then.

    EDIT: whoops, a lot of people are eager to clarify this point!


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    #96
    Lockstep
    Registered Users Posts: 9,029 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    bugler wrote: »
    Priests being called as character witnesses..I've heard it all now!

    Not really; when filling out job applications, I've usually been asked to provide a character witness by a teacher, priest,doctor etc; basically someone in an authority position who'd know me in a personal capacity and can vouch for my good character.

    Lot of people being shocked by the priest shaking the man's hand; that doesn't surprise me. He's a priest; he's meant to love everyone, regardless of what they have done.


    Nonetheless, terrible case. My deepest sympathies for the poor woman and fair play to her for speaking out.


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    #97
    suimhneas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 153 ✭✭suimhneas


    paddyirishman85 wrote: »
    From what I gather after reading the articles and most of this thread, the 50 people shook hands with the guy BEFORE the trial, before the judge entered the court. Innocent until proven guilty. At that point, he had not been convicted of the crime.

    He was found quilty a couple weeks ago that was the sentencing hearing. Disgusted with the whole story, and some of the responses here the verdict was unanimous that means the jury that got to hear the full details had no doubts in their minds, there is no need for any one from the area or otherwise to be doubting that verdict a jury of his peers found him guilty, just glad he got a sentence he deserved feel sorry for his fiancee hope she knows how lucky she is.


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    #98
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,227 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    ash23 wrote: »
    It was prior to sentencing. He had been convicted.

    Sorry, my mistake. In that case, I retract my point. Shaking hands with and hugging a man convicted of sexual assault in front of the victim is detestable and appauling, and those people should be ashamed of themselves.


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    #99
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,253 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    the priest said “the fact is, it was an alleged attack... but the jury convicted him.”
    .

    Unbelievable stuff.. absolutely unbelievable.


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    #100
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    paddyirishman85 wrote: »
    Sorry, my mistake. In that case, I retract my point. Shaking hands with and hugging a convicted rapist in front of the victim is detestable and appauling, and those people should be ashamed of themselves.
    Convicted of sexual assault, not rape. This point has been clarified earlier in the thread.


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    #101
    shaneybaby
    Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭shaneybaby


    kickoutthejams wrote: »
    Not really; when filling out job applications, I've usually been asked to provide a character witness by a teacher, priest,doctor etc; basically someone in an authority position who'd know me in a personal capacity and can vouch for my good character.

    Lot of people being shocked by the priest shaking the man's hand; that doesn't surprise me. He's a priest; he's meant to love everyone, regardless of what they have done.

    Nonetheless, terrible case. My deepest sympathies for the poor woman and fair play to her for speaking out.

    Seems not. Only applies to 'yer man'.

    He said: “My Christian responsibility was to this person that I knew and to the person who is the object of, what I call, this extremely harsh sentence.”
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1217/breaking27.htm


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    #102
    suimhneas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 153 ✭✭suimhneas


    Oryx wrote: »
    Convicted of sexual assault, not rape. This point has been clarified earlier in the thread.

    Not rape due to a garda arriving on scene let no one kid themselves that is where it was heading if it was not for the intervention.


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    #103
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,227 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Oryx wrote: »
    Convicted of sexual assault, not rape. This point has been clarified earlier in the thread.

    My mistake again. I've fixed my post to match


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    #104
    Michellenman
    Registered Users Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭Michellenman


    kickoutthejams wrote: »
    Not really; when filling out job applications, I've usually been asked to provide a character witness by a teacher, priest,doctor etc; basically someone in an authority position who'd know me in a personal capacity and can vouch for my good character.

    Lot of people being shocked by the priest shaking the man's hand; that doesn't surprise me. He's a priest; he's meant to love everyone, regardless of what they have done.


    Nonetheless, terrible case. My deepest sympathies for the poor woman and fair play to her for speaking out.

    Yet he didn't approach the victim (from my reading anyway) to offer support or advice/condolences? If he's doing like you say he is, loving everyone, then why hasn't he gone up to the girl and either shook her hand or offered support. You can't say that he's just being a good priest by acting this way towards the man while he's ignoring the plight of the victim.


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    #105
    Lockstep
    Registered Users Posts: 9,029 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    shaneybaby wrote: »
    Seems not. Only applies to 'yer man'.

    He said: “My Christian responsibility was to this person that I knew and to the person who is the object of, what I call, this extremely harsh sentence.”
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1217/breaking27.htm

    Did he know the victim?
    If not, it really doesn't surprise me.

    If someone I loved was convicted of a terrible crime, as horrifed as I'd be, I'd still hope to love them.
    Michellenman wrote: »
    Yet he didn't approach the victim (from my reading anyway) to offer support or advice/condolences?
    It didn't say he did. Doesn't mean it never happened.
    Presumably he didn't. If not, I'm guessing he was there as support to the sex offender and his family. Christianity is meant to be about hate the sin, love the sinner.


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    #106
    ash23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    I've updated my facebook status to the following
    Could everyone email Kerry Rape Crisis Centre and offer a few words of support for the VICTIM in the Lisdowel assault case. krcc@eircom.net

    Hoping other follow suit and email a few words of support to the victim too.


    I just can't wrap my head around how that poor girl must have felt sitting there watching her attacker being supported like something out of a funeral. So annoyed over this.


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    #107
    suimhneas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 153 ✭✭suimhneas


    kickoutthejams wrote: »
    Did he know the victim?
    If not, it really doesn't surprise me.

    If someone I loved was convicted of a terrible crime, as horrifed as I'd be, I'd still hope to love them.


    It didn't say he did. Doesn't mean it never happened.
    Presumably he didn't. If not, I'm guessing he was there as support to the sex offender and his family. Christianity is meant to be about hate the sin, love the sinner.


    Just another example of why people are shunning the catholic church in their droves. I dont think that love the sinner and totally ignore the victim is in any part of any bible. We should stop talking abou this as we are getting no place
    What happened to this girl was wrong,
    what them old foggies did in court was wrong,
    what the priest did was wrong, but for once the sentence is finally fitting the crime we are so use to soft sentences in this country all i can say is lets hope more judges hand down sentences like this might act as some sort of deterrant.


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    #108
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    He was convicted. There is no 'other' side to the story.
    While in this case it certainly appears that justice was done and no mistake from my reading of the case, the statement that just because a conviction is secured there is no other side to the story is frankly a bit daft TBH.

    There was a case earlier this year whose precise details escape me, where a guy was accused and convicted of molestation of a child and years later the child now a woman came forward to exonerate the man. She had been coached by her family to lie about this to secure land IIRC.

    So a conviction is in 90% of cases where the story may end, but even there there can be grey areas and miscarriages of justice can and do happen.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #109
    Fink Goddie
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Fink Goddie


    kickoutthejams wrote: »

    Lot of people being shocked by the priest shaking the man's hand; that doesn't surprise me. He's a priest; he's meant to love everyone, regardless of what they have done.
    .
    I'm not suprised at all, wouldnt expect anything more from the clergy, wouldnt trust any of them!!!
    Michellenman wrote: »
    If he's doing like you say he is, loving everyone, then why hasn't he gone up to the girl and either shook her hand or offered support. You can't say that he's just being a good priest by acting this way towards the man while he's ignoring the plight of the victim.

    Exactly!!!
    kickoutthejams wrote: »

    If someone I loved was convicted of a terrible crime, as horrifed as I'd be, I'd still hope to love them.
    Christianity is meant to be about hate the sin, love the sinner.

    This is why christianity is a load of sh1te in my opinion!!!
    Its these do gooders that have the laws in this country the way they are, people consider the rights of criminals more than the victims rights!


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    #110
    Clare Bear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,613 ✭✭✭✭Clare Bear


    I've seen something quite similar to this case happening in my own home village. There was no court case, this was about 10 years ago and for some reason the women (there was more than one) were just too afraid to carry it up. Long story short because the man in question went to mass every Sunday, helped out a lot in the local community, was the husband of a teacher in the local school then there was no way that he could even contemplate sexually abusing anyone. Two of those girls moved away because of how they were treated by everyone. I'm not surprised by this story at all, it's Listowel. The number of idiots in rural communities like this is higher than you could imagine. These are the exact same types of people that think children who were abused by priests were liars as how could a man of the church ever do such a thing :rolleyes: How this girl was treated makes my blood boil but I'm not surprised to say the least. Everyone that went to shake his hand should be ashamed of themselves. But she probably had a short skirt on that night so she was obviously looking for it :rolleyes:

    Maybe there is more to it but I've seen this kind of crap happening too many times in rural communities.


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    #111
    smileysurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭smileysurfer


    Oryx
    Convicted of sexual assault, not rape.

    Call me ignorant but Rape and Sexual Assault are the same thing as far as I am aware, correct me if Im wrong! :confused:


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    #112
    Michellenman
    Registered Users Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭Michellenman


    Wibbs wrote: »
    While in this case it certainly appears that justice was done and no mistake from my reading of the case, the statement that just because a conviction is secured there is no other side to the story is frankly a bit daft TBH.

    There was a case earlier this year whose precise details escape me, where a guy was accused and convicted of molestation of a child and years later the child now a woman came forward to exonerate the man. She had been coached by her family to lie about this to secure land IIRC.

    So a conviction is in 90% of cases where the story may end, but even there there can be grey areas and miscarriages of justice can and do happen.


    I remember that case and iirc there was no proof other than the childs testimony of what had actually happened. Here there is the woman's evidence, evidence from the Gardaí who found her, with him, and CCTV footage of him carrying her to the skip. There may well be another part to this story but certainly not one that could exonerate this man from what he's done.


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    #113
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    smileysurfer wrote: »
    Call me ignorant but Rape and Sexual Assault are the same thing as far as I am aware, correct me if Im wrong! :confused:

    You are wrong, rape means there has been penetration.
    Seems the garda arrived before that happened but he had his penis out and therefore claimed he was taking a piss and 'discovered' the girl.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0032/sec0002.html#zza32y1990s2
    Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act, 1990


    Sexual assault.

    2.—(1) The offence of indecent assault upon any male person and the offence of indecent assault upon any female person shall be known as sexual assault.
    [GA]

    (2) A person guilty of sexual assault shall be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years.
    [GA]

    (3) Sexual assault shall be a felony.

    Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act, 1990

    Rape under section 4.

    4.—(1) In this Act "rape under section 4" means a sexual assault that includes—
    [GA]

    ( a ) penetration (however slight) of the anus or mouth by the penis, or
    [GA]

    ( b ) penetration (however slight) of the vagina by any object held or manipulated by another person.
    [GA]

    (2) A person guilty of rape under section 4 shall be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for life.
    [GA]

    (3) Rape under section 4 shall be a felony.


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    #114
    smileysurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭smileysurfer


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    You are wrong, rape means there has been penetration.
    Seems the garda arrived before that happened but he had his penis out and therefore claimed he was taking a piss and 'discovered' the girl.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0032/sec0002.html#zza32y1990s2

    Thanks for clearing that up for me and id say there were another few posters unsure about it too.


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    #115
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    on lunchtime on newstalk, coming up soon.
    His girlfriend is going to be on I think (or at least her reaction given airtime)


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    #116
    pookie82
    Registered Users Posts: 2,217 ✭✭✭pookie82


    The thread on this in AH discussing the interviews with both his girlfriend and the victim this morning says that his fiancee is sticking by him/defending him. I'd find it very hard to stick by a guy who had his penis out over a half naked girl he's just been caught carrying around to a dumpster, even if it was cosentual sex.


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    #117
    suimhneas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 153 ✭✭suimhneas


    the way this girl is been treated is bringing Lavinia Kerwick to mind, i guess some people will just never learn.


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    #118
    Clare Bear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,613 ✭✭✭✭Clare Bear


    pookie82 wrote: »
    The thread on this in AH discussing the interviews with both his girlfriend and the victim this morning says that his fiancee is sticking by him/defending him. I'd find it very hard to stick by a guy who had his penis out over a half naked girl he's just been caught carrying around to a dumpster, even if it was cosentual sex.

    Denial.


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    #119
    FC2009
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭FC2009


    _michelle_ wrote: »
    god it really brings home how simple & uneducated country people can act!

    Please explain how are country people simple and uneducated? Do you think that things like this cant happen in cities?


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    #120
    suimhneas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 153 ✭✭suimhneas


    FC2009 wrote: »
    Please explain how are country people simple and uneducated? Do you think that things like this cant happen in cities?

    i think you will find -michelle- isnt the only member on boards making comments like this their distain for "rural" peole is becoming very obvious. They must think everyone outside the pale are a class below themselves. We must turn a blind eye dont you know they are "high as kites".


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    #121
    herya
    Registered Users Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭herya


    enda1 wrote: »
    Sure I'm sure many people on here have had consensual sex after feeling sick from drinking or even after getting sick from drinking! At least I know I have...

    So you carried her behind a dumpster and bruised her after getting sick from drinking? Classy!


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