M11/N30 - Gorey to Enniscorthy [open to traffic]

dublintutoring · 12-04-2015 10:32am

Geogregor wrote: »

Who decides when fencing should be done?

IT depends on the project I suppose. It's probably between the council, NRA and landowners coming to an agreement. No point in fencing off the CPO years in advance as it is still usable farmland in many cases

Schadenfreudia · 12-04-2015 2:28pm

dublintutoring wrote: »

IT depends on the project I suppose. It's probably between the council, NRA and landowners coming to an agreement. No point in fencing off the CPO years in advance as it is still usable farmland in many cases

In the case of the Rathnew - Arklow scheme in many cases the farmers continued grazing animals and growing things inside the fence for years until the work started.

PoolDude · 13-04-2015 9:19am

dublintutoring wrote: »

The erection of boundary posts is now completed along the route. Posts on the Gorey side can be seen on a hillside about 1 km north of the Clough roundabout.
As for a start date, probably December or later.

Any further insight on December start date?

I had thought it was expected towards the end of the Summer around September but have nothing more than paper talk to base that on

Cantona's Collars · 23-04-2015 2:41pm

Fencing has started along parts of the site,spotted some at Solsborough yesterday.

PoolDude · 29-05-2015 7:06am

Any news on this?

With Arklow-Rathnew completing it would be great to hear this was due to sign and start to continue the progress on euroroute 1

Mellifera · 29-05-2015 8:45am

No news yet. Contractor is in negotiations as I understand it.
NRA likely to want to get it signed before end July.

jd · 09-06-2015 11:57am

Report in today's Wexford people that contracts still not signed and the construction will not start until very late 2015, or more likely 2016. They say construction on both projects should be finished by 2018. There is even a chance that the Enniscorthy scheme may start first. I'll link to the article when it is online later this week.

jd · 10-06-2015 8:20pm

jd wrote: »

Report in today's Wexford people that contracts still not signed and the construction will not start until very late 2015, or more likely 2016. They say construction on both projects should be finished by 2018. There is even a chance that the Enniscorthy scheme may start first. I'll link to the article when it is online later this week.

Article On line now
http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/start-date-on-new-ross-and-enniscorthy-bypasses-delayed-31289478.html

Cantona's Collars · 11-06-2015 2:41am

jd wrote: »

Article On line now
http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/start-date-on-new-ross-and-enniscorthy-bypasses-delayed-31289478.html

I'd heard this news about a week or so ago,it was just word of mouth from one of the sub contractors so I said I'd wait to see if there was an official announcement.Spring 2016 is the start date now instead of September this year,besides a hold up in contracts they don't want to start late in the year and have to face into Winter with all the earth moving to be done.

hi5 · 11-06-2015 9:55am

The day the EIB signs the money over is the day the contracts will be signed, that's what happened with the M17/M18.
According to the dates of approval New Ross bypass should be first to start.

http://www.eib.org/projects/pipeline/index.htm?start=&end=&status=&region=&country=ireland&sector=

josip · 11-06-2015 10:22am

hi5 wrote: »

The day the EIB signs the money over is the day the contracts will be signed, that's what happened with the M17/M18.
According to the dates of approval New Ross bypass should be first to start.

http://www.eib.org/projects/pipeline/index.htm?start=&end=&status=&region=&country=ireland&sector=

Regardless of when it starts, the one thing we can be sure of in the world of infrastructural spin, is that it will be completed "on time and under budget". :rolleyes:

BoatMad · 11-06-2015 6:50pm

hi5 wrote: »

The day the EIB signs the money over is the day the contracts will be signed, that's what happened with the M17/M18.
According to the dates of approval New Ross bypass should be first to start.

http://www.eib.org/projects/pipeline/index.htm?start=&end=&status=&region=&country=ireland&sector=

both schemes are approved , so it cannot be assumed that the first approved will start first , the bridge is a complex project

jca · 11-06-2015 6:52pm

josip wrote: »

Regardless of when it starts, the one thing we can be sure of in the world of infrastructural spin, is that it will be completed "on time and under budget". :rolleyes:

Most of those jobs are in fairness, all helped by severe penalties.

Schadenfreudia · 11-06-2015 9:11pm

jca wrote: »

Most of those jobs are in fairness, all helped by severe penalties.

And even more helped by the old Ryanair trick of pushing out the projected arrival time to allow for delays!

Geogregor · 16-07-2015 9:08am

So, since M11 Rathnew - Arklow scheme is now open when can we expect start on the Enniscorthy bypass?
Any rumours or gossips when contract is going to be signed and when works might start?
I guess the site must be fenced by now. I remember someone reported a while ago that fencing was ongoing.

Even if construction will start only next year (as some here predict) they could still sign contract soon and then progress with the detailed design process.

marmurr1916 · 16-07-2015 12:33pm

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

And even more helped by the old Ryanair trick of pushing out the projected arrival time to allow for delays!

I prefer that than for transport providers to have unrealistically short journey times shown on their timetables.

Better to arrive earlier than the timetabled arrival time than later than the timetabled arrival time.

If I get a Ryanair flight which is scheduled to arrive at 15.00 I know that I can safely book a bus departing the airport at 15.45 because I know that Ryanair allows for leeway in their timetable and that the flight will either arrive earlier than 15.00 or at 15.00.

If Ryanair's timetable said the flight arrives at 15.00 but it nearly always arrives late because Ryanair publish an unrealistic flight timetable, I can't safely make onwards travel arrangements for a 15.45 departure because I don't have any certainty.

There's nothing wrong with being cautious about the possibility of delays and publishing schedules to reflect those possibilities.

If something arrives earlier than the scheduled time, whether it be a new section of motorway or a flight, everyone's happy.

If the builders of this section of the M11 said that it would be completed by Spring 2015, everyone would have been complaining for the past couple of months that it was late!

It's far better for them to say it's going to be built by the end of 2015 and then get it opened well in advance of that projected completion schedule.

Schadenfreudia · 16-07-2015 2:42pm

marmurr1916 wrote: »

I prefer that than for transport providers to have unrealistically short journey times shown on their timetables.

You make some good points, sometimes I can be a bit cynical. It comes with experience.

loyatemu · 16-07-2015 3:20pm

from the first page of this thread:

This was delayed previously to allow for the integration of a bypass of Ferns and Camolin. It is likely to now be deferred further to allow for the integration of a bypass of Oilgate on the south side of Enniscorthy.

shame they didn't follow through with the Oilgate plan - it will be left as the last non-bypassed village on the N11.

Cantona's Collars · 17-07-2015 1:49am

Geogregor wrote: »

So, since M11 Rathnew - Arklow scheme is now open when can we expect start on the Enniscorthy bypass?
Any rumours or gossips when contract is going to be signed and when works might start?
I guess the site must be fenced by now. I remember someone reported a while ago that fencing was ongoing.

Even if construction will start only next year (as some here predict) they could still sign contract soon and then progress with the detailed design process.

That was me who reported on routes being staked and fenced,machinery will be on site and working in the Spring 2016.It seems they don't want to be doing the heavy earthmoving through the Winter.

Geogregor · 17-07-2015 6:39am

zerks wrote: »

That was me who reported on routes being staked and fenced,machinery will be on site and working in the Spring 2016.It seems they don't want to be doing the heavy earthmoving through the Winter.

So, is the fencing finished along the whole scheme?

Cantona's Collars · 17-07-2015 11:33am

Geogregor wrote: »

So, is the fencing finished along the whole scheme?

Marker stakes all along the route,I only saw a couple of places where there's actual fencing.The stakes give a fair idea where the final route is.Some of the stakes were removed as farmers have corn sown.The groundworks won't start 'til Spring so work by landowners is going on as per usual.

thedarkroom · 18-07-2015 11:09am

zerks wrote: »

. . . It seems they don't want to be doing the heavy earthmoving through the Winter.

Quite often contractors will avoid moving clay during winter months because it will be wet and the soil will be a lot heavier to move around. This leads to difficulties with lorries sinking in soft ground, damaging roads, extra fuel costs, slower movement, etc etc. With the amount of earth to be moved, these impacts would be considerable.

Geogregor · 19-07-2015 9:25am

thedarkroom wrote: »

Quite often contractors will avoid moving clay during winter months because it will be wet and the soil will be a lot heavier to move around. This leads to difficulties with lorries sinking in soft ground, damaging roads, extra fuel costs, slower movement, etc etc. With the amount of earth to be moved, these impacts would be considerable.

Yes, it's universal approach in many countries. But I would say winter weather has less influence in Irish climate than in continental Europe

At least you don't have to deal with frozen ground like we do in Poland. We can't really build embankments in winter because frozen soil doesn't settle properly.

Sam Russell · 19-07-2015 8:06pm

thedarkroom wrote: »

Quite often contractors will avoid moving clay during winter months because it will be wet and the soil will be a lot heavier to move around. This leads to difficulties with lorries sinking in soft ground, damaging roads, extra fuel costs, slower movement, etc etc. With the amount of earth to be moved, these impacts would be considerable.

Which of the twelve months are considered winter? All of them?

BoatMad · 20-07-2015 10:16am

Can't see " winter" being a decision to start or stop anything in Ireland

loyatemu · 20-07-2015 12:05pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Which of the twelve months are considered winter? All of them?

any month with an "R" in it.

VR6 · 20-07-2015 12:10pm

loyatemu wrote: »

from the first page of this thread:

shame they didn't follow through with the Oilgate plan - it will be left as the last non-bypassed village on the N11.

Totally agree. Not including Oilgate in the Enniscorthy bypass defies all possible logic. What could be the basis for such a ridiculous decision ?

It seems like a lack of joined up thinking. Either that or the village is one big traffic calming measure !

jd · 20-07-2015 12:20pm

VR6 wrote: »

Totally agree. Not including Oilgate in the Enniscorthy bypass defies all possible logic. What could be the basis for such a ridiculous decision ?

It seems like a lack of joined up thinking. Either that or the village is one big traffic calming measure !

It's annoying, but it may have been to do with the possible routes for the final section(s) to Rosslare.

Schadenfreudia · 20-07-2015 12:28pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Which of the twelve months are considered winter? All of them?

Yeah, in the South and West it would appear that is correct. Thank God for the East coast, eh?

Sam Russell · 20-07-2015 12:30pm

It is just that mid July I would not expect to have heating on. Yesterday it was 14 degrees.

spacetweek · 20-07-2015 2:09pm

VR6 wrote: »

It seems like a lack of joined up thinking. Either that or the village is one big traffic calming measure !

Wouldn't there be a big tailoff in traffic after Enniscorthy heading south?

PoolDude · 21-07-2015 10:30am

spacetweek wrote: »

Wouldn't there be a big tailoff in traffic after Enniscorthy heading south?

Yes but you still wouldn't end a dual carriage from Belfast in a village, surely you'd end it immediately after it. I'm guessing this is because the original plan was to continue it from there all the way to Rosslare.

It won't be addressed now as clarifying they are not doing it because they still plan to go ahead with that stretch will lose votes and it may be too late to add it to the design plus it also signals they are going to do the final stretch to Rosslare which on the broader scale is also a negative message they won't want to give before an election.

spacetweek · 21-07-2015 12:33pm

PoolDude wrote: »

Yes but you still wouldn't end a dual carriage from Belfast in a village, surely you'd end it immediately after it. I'm guessing this is because the original plan was to continue it from there all the way to Rosslare.

Still not feeling like it's a big deal. Just because it's E01 and connects Larne to Rosslare doesn't mean that many people are ever going to need to do that. Rosslare Port has long since entered a twilight.

Although it's confirmed N11/N25 Oilgate-Rosslare won't take place in the current round of road financing, that only puts it off until the 2020s, when I predict it will happen quickly. All in good time.

nowecant · 21-07-2015 1:20pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Rosslare Port has long since entered a twilight.

Perhaps connecting it to the growing national motorway network would help. I always felt that Roslare, Foynes etc should have got priority for future development.

loyatemu · 21-07-2015 1:20pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Still not feeling like it's a big deal. Just because it's E01 and connects Larne to Rosslare doesn't mean that many people are ever going to need to do that. Rosslare Port has long since entered a twilight.

Although it's confirmed N11/N25 Oilgate-Rosslare won't take place in the current round of road financing, that only puts it off until the 2020s, when I predict it will happen quickly. All in good time.

Rosslare as you point out is not a big deal, but Wexford is a pretty big town, seems silly to leave one small bottleneck between Dublin and Wexford for the sake of a few KM extra on a 40KM scheme. But I guess the planning is all done and no-one wants any further delays.

redfacedbear · 21-07-2015 3:39pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Wouldn't there be a big tailoff in traffic after Enniscorthy heading south?

Looking at the NRA traffic counters there is a bit of a drop at Enniscorthy 14k aadt (north of Enniscorthy near N80 turnoff) down to 12.5K between Oilgate and Ferrycarrig. This has fallen to sub 7k by the time it gets to Rosslare.

I've always thought that the entire road (Oilgate to Rosslare) was hard to justify but the northern end (to South of Wexford town) could stand up to scrutiny. Particularly when you consider a lot of traffic from the south of the county heading north seems to use the R741 road as far as Gorey - you would have to assume that at least some of this will divert to a 120kph road when it's available.

annfield1978 · 22-07-2015 1:57pm

Looks like financial close will be reached around late August/ early September, at which point detailed design can commence, so on site perhaps January/ February

josip · 22-07-2015 2:42pm

annfield1978 wrote: »

Looks like financial close will be reached around late August/ early September, at which point detailed design can commence, so on site perhaps January/ February

To drive a few stakes and take soil moisture readings until April/May

VR6 · 22-07-2015 4:27pm

redfacedbear wrote: »

Looking at the NRA traffic counters there is a bit of a drop at Enniscorthy 14k aadt (north of Enniscorthy near N80 turnoff) down to 12.5K between Oilgate and Ferrycarrig. This has fallen to sub 7k by the time it gets to Rosslare.

I've always thought that the entire road (Oilgate to Rosslare) was hard to justify but the northern end (to South of Wexford town) could stand up to scrutiny. Particularly when you consider a lot of traffic from the south of the county heading north seems to use the R741 road as far as Gorey - you would have to assume that at least some of this will divert to a 120kph road when it's available.

They should at least bypass Oilgate asap with a wide single carriageway then ?

loyatemu · 24-07-2015 10:58am

VR6 wrote: »

They should at least bypass Oilgate asap with a wide single carriageway then ?

they're only planning 2+2 for the remainder of the N11 so they might as well do that - the cost difference is minimal.

Mellifera · 24-07-2015 11:12pm

josip wrote:

To drive a few stakes and take soil moisture readings until April/May

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm? Don't worry, they'll be in there ASAP

josip · 25-07-2015 1:42pm

Mellifera wrote: »

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm? Don't worry, they'll be in there ASAP

I can see how it might be seen as sarcastic, but given the reluctance to move soil in winter I was wondering what else they can do in Jan/Feb?
Drive piles for bridges?

annfield1978 · 25-07-2015 2:14pm

Site Clearance, site investigation, set up compounds, if its a mild winter, crack on!!

spacetweek · 07-08-2015 10:23pm

annfield1978 wrote: »

Site Clearance, site investigation, set up compounds, if its a mild winter, crack on!!

Archaeological work is clearly visible in the gmaps imagery here.

sheff_ · 08-08-2015 7:24pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Archaeological work is clearly visible in the gmaps imagery.

Archaeology was done for this in 2010/11. New Ross bypass too.

marno21 · 08-08-2015 8:14pm

sheff_ wrote: »

Archaeology was done for this in 2010/11. New Ross bypass too.

Good to see them doing this kind of work in the recessionary times so the projects would be shovel ready come the prosperous times.

Complete opposite of the M20 project.

Schadenfreudia · 08-08-2015 10:06pm

marno21 wrote: »

Complete opposite of the M20 project.

Which means they planned to prioritise the N11 as soon as Howlin got into power??

marno21 · 08-08-2015 10:37pm

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Which means they planned to prioritise the N11 as soon as Howlin got into power??

This was in the 2nd tranche of PPP's announced in 2009 (along with the M17/M18, M11 Arklow to Rathnew, N25 New Ross and the M20 Cork to Limerick). M20 was later removed in favour of N6 Galway City Outer Bypass (that went well) and the N7 Newlands Cross Interchange.

Even though it was removed, they still should've done the groundwork on it as it was always going to have to be done one day and the work would've been both cheap and beneficial, although if I were to guess it was canned in the end as they couldn't afford to CPO the land along the route.

Anyway, back to the Enniscorthy bypass

Schadenfreudia · 08-08-2015 10:43pm

marno21 wrote: »

Anyway, back to the Enniscorthy bypass

You're saying I'm too cynical! You might be right

Mellifera · 15-09-2015 1:46pm

marno21 wrote: »

Even though it was removed, they still should've done the groundwork on it as it was always going to have to be done one day and the work would've been both cheap and beneficial, although if I were to guess it was canned in the end as they couldn't afford to CPO the land along the route.

What's the point in doing archaeology/investigations on a scheme that doesn't have planning?
Would say it was 'canned' for both lack of funds for CPO but also the entire scheme costs. Even if it was run as a PPP there's still a large long term cost.

M11/N30 - Gorey to Enniscorthy [open to traffic]

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