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Funding of Sinn Fein?

  • 25-05-2012 3:26pm
    #1
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,268 ✭✭✭✭


    Sinn Fein are very proud to state that none of their elected TD's receive more of their wages than average industrial wage with the difference between the salary they're paid by the Irish taxpayer and that average going to the party's own coffers.

    Given that a TD's salary is over 90k, whilst average industrial wage is around 35k. Surely the after tax difference between those salaries contravenes the political donation limits for an individual?

    If there's an exemption in place, fair enough, just curious to know if it's legal?


Comments

  • #2
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    If it wasnt legal you can be sure the likes of McDowell would have done something


  • #3
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,268 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I'd be surprised if he hadn't but still curious as to what makes it legal...


  • #4
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    Based on the 2009 figures, each SF TD donated €6,000 a head to the party.

    It came up in a lengthy thread around about the Presidential Election and McGuinness' promise to only take the average industrial wage. As is the way with these things, it went off on many tangents so the substantive issue was far, far away by the end.


  • #5
    golfball37
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,715 ✭✭✭golfball37


    It goes into the individual consitutuencies of the elected TD's not the party coffers, making it legal.

    Thats the official line anyway.


  • #6
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    One thing is certain, their TD's do not get the average industrial wage off the state and are saving us nothing. They also claim more in expenses than most of the other parties.


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  • #7
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Pride Fighter wrote: »
    One thing is certain, their TD's do not get the average industrial wage off the state and are saving us nothing. They also claim more in expenses than most of the other parties.
    And not just in Dublin, but in Stormont too and Westminster, a parliament they refuse to even sit in.
    The ultimate Cute Hoor movement.


  • #8
    Lockstep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,031 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    The average expenses claim for a SF TD is €40-45k a year IIRC


  • #9
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,527 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Lockstep wrote: »
    The average expenses claim for a SF TD is €40-45k a year IIRC

    That is a staggering amount - basically means that the "average industrial wage" line is just all spin.


  • #10
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    Or perhaps it could have something to do with the fact that every SF TD has a full time constituency office... same isnt true for other parties.

    If the expenses are not spent on things they shouldn't be, for personal gain etc I don't see the problem. That said I think the amount TDs are able to claim should be capped at around 30k.


  • #11
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,527 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    Or perhaps it could have something to do with the fact that every SF TD has a full time constituency office... same isnt true for other parties.

    I cannot really think of any TD who does not have a full time constituency office. I would imagine that not having a full time constituency office would very much be an exception for TD's these days.


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  • #12
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    I cannot really think of any TD who does not have a full time constituency office. I would imagine that not having a full time constituency office would very much be an exception for TD's these days.
    Really? Really?


    Must not have thought very hard then.


  • #13
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,527 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    Really? Really?


    Must not have thought very hard then.

    Yes, really. Most TD's that come to my mind have a fully staffed office (well one secretary at least) open each day of the week. Considering there is a specific allowance for constituency office matters that does not necessarily surprise me.


  • #14
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    Or perhaps it could have something to do with the fact that every SF TD has a full time constituency office... same isnt true for other parties.

    If the expenses are not spent on things they shouldn't be, for personal gain etc I don't see the problem. That said I think the amount TDs are able to claim should be capped at around 30k.

    I would have thought SF could have used some of the rebates from TD's towards constituency offices rather than claim expenses. Seems odd, taking the average industrial wage, giving the rest to the party for party costs and in addition claiming high expenses from the state. The state doesn't save anything at all.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #15
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    K-9 wrote: »
    I would have thought SF could have used some of the rebates from TD's towards constituency offices rather than claim expenses. Seems odd, taking the average industrial wage, giving the rest to the party for party costs and in addition claiming high expenses from the state. The state doesn't save anything at all.
    No one ever claimed the the state saves anything. The issue with the average wage is that SF tds don't live the ivory tower lifestyles some other TDs do...

    When SF supporters "boast" about the TDs taking the average wage it is in reference to that fact, that the TDs are in touch with ordinary citizens not a claim that the state is saving money.


  • #16
    German pointer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭German pointer


    Lockstep wrote: »
    The average expenses claim for a SF TD is €40-45k a year IIRC

    What is the average expense for the TD's from other parties?

    And being from Limerick I remember that Willie O Dea got into trouble a few years ago when he was asked about the €250,000 of tax payers money (IIRC) it cost to run his office in Limerick every year


  • #17
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    It's more about them making a point that they aren't in politics for the money, unlike all the FF ministers riding off into the sunset last year with their big fat golden handshakes and pension pots.

    also having the consituency and party funded this way makes them less likely to resort to corruption and taking backhanders from lobbyists.


  • #18
    swimming in a sea
    Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭swimming in a sea


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    No one ever claimed the the state saves anything. The issue with the average wage is that SF tds don't live the ivory tower lifestyles some other TDs do...

    When SF supporters "boast" about the TDs taking the average wage it is in reference to that fact, that the TDs are in touch with ordinary citizens not a claim that the state is saving money.

    they are still living off the Northern bank robbery,


  • #19
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    swimming in a sea wrote: »
    they are still living off the Northern bank robbery,

    You've evidence of that?


  • #20
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    swimming in a sea wrote: »
    they are still living off the Northern bank robbery,

    18 posts before it got mentioned, must be new record


  • #21
    Lockstep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,031 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    German pointer wrote: »
    What is the average expense for the TD's from other parties?

    And being from Limerick I remember that Willie O Dea got into trouble a few years ago when he was asked about the €250,000 of tax payers money (IIRC) it cost to run his office in Limerick every year
    Average expenses per year
    FG: €36412
    Lab: €28756
    FF: €45219
    SF: €45153
    ULA: €35144
    Ind: €37805

    Source


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  • #22
    German pointer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭German pointer


    Lockstep wrote: »
    Average expenses per year
    FG: €36412
    Lab: €28756
    FF: €45219
    SF: €45153
    ULA: €35144
    Ind: €37805

    Source

    So they are not the highest


  • #23
    SocSocPol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭SocSocPol


    Well whatever they do with it, they don't spend it on ink anyway!:rolleyes:


  • #24
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    No one ever claimed the the state saves anything. The issue with the average wage is that SF tds don't live the ivory tower lifestyles some other TDs do...

    When SF supporters "boast" about the TDs taking the average wage it is in reference to that fact, that the TDs are in touch with ordinary citizens not a claim that the state is saving money.

    BULLSH1T


  • #25
    Lockstep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,031 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    German pointer wrote: »
    So they are not the highest

    No they're not but I don't think anyone in this thread claimed they were.
    That said, claiming €45k a year in expenses is pretty excessive in my view, especially when it's a party that claims to only take the average industrial wage. Coming 2nd place to Fianna Fáil (and only being €60 a year behind them) isn't very noteworthy in my eyes.


  • #26
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    the groutch wrote: »
    It's more about them making a point that they aren't in politics for the money, unlike all the FF ministers riding off into the sunset last year with their big fat golden handshakes and pension pots.

    also having the consituency and party funded this way makes them less likely to resort to corruption and taking backhanders from lobbyists.

    SF have never taken donations from dubious sources? I'd find that hard to believe.

    Every Irish politician is in politics for the money. The very nature of what it takes to go far in Irish politics dictates this necessity; the only difference between them is some are terrible while others are clearly fraudulent.


  • #27
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    the groutch wrote: »
    It's more about them making a point that they aren't in politics for the money...
    Their party certainly seems to be.


  • #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Lockstep wrote: »
    Average expenses per year
    FG: €36412
    Lab: €28756
    FF: €45219
    SF: €45153
    ULA: €35144
    Ind: €37805

    Source


    Sinn Fine Fail.


  • #29
    swimming in a sea
    Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭swimming in a sea


    Nodin wrote: »
    You've evidence of that?

    not a bit of evidence, I'm not a copper, plenty been said to their face before by many. Let them sue for slander\libel :rolleyes:


  • #30
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    swimming in a sea wrote: »
    not a bit of evidence,..........

    Thanks for your honesty.


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  • #31
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,527 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    SF have never taken donations from dubious sources? I'd find that hard to believe.

    Indeed - it is laughable when shinners hark on about the apparent fact that SF is not aligned to 'big business' and 'high flyers' in regards the fundraising it recieves.

    That notion is totally blown out of the water when one examines their overseas fundraising activities - where corporate donations alongside donations from very wealthy individuals have raked in over a million euro for the party within the last three years alone.

    EDIT: Oh and, if you think the Galway tent era was bad, then you should experience first hand the lavish behind-closed-doors dinner receptions that SF put on in America to aid their fundraising.


  • #32
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Indeed - it is laughable when shinners hark on about the apparent fact that SF is not aligned to 'big business' and 'high flyers' in regards the fundraising it recieves.

    That notion is totally blown out of the water when one examines their overseas fundraising activities - where corporate donations alongside donations from very wealthy individuals have raked in over a million euro for the party within the last three years alone.
    Why are those donations made? To curry favour like the donations to your party were for?

    Or were they from Irish Americans attempting to further the republican cause?


  • #33
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,527 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    Why are those donations made? To curry favour like the donations to your party were for?

    Or were they from Irish Americans attempting to further the republican cause?

    Influential business figures attempting to aid their activities in Northern Ireland and beyond no doubt.

    Have you ever been at a SF dinner fundraiser? I guess the foot soliders rarely get to see the high flying activities that your prominent party figures get up to when they are abroad.


  • #34
    golfball37
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,715 ✭✭✭golfball37


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Influential business figures attempting to aid their activities in Northern Ireland and beyond no doubt.

    Have you ever been at a SF dinner fundraiser? I guess the foot soliders rarely get to see the high flying activities that your prominent party figures get up to when they are abroad.

    I daresay despite your keyboard bravado that you haven't been present at one either.

    The Galway tent and its legacy has far more serious implications for this country than any fund raiser held by any party 3000 miles away. It should never be trivialised.


  • #35
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,527 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    golfball37 wrote: »
    I daresay despite your keyboard bravado that you haven't been present at one either.

    The Galway tent and its legacy has far more serious implications for this country than any fund raiser held by any party 3000 miles away. It should never be trivialised.

    The Galway tent itself, whilst setting a terrible image, was trivial compared to the behind the scenes fund-raising that occurred with dinners and so on. I will be the first to put my hands up and say that such activities were unethical and I am glad that they have been banned within FF - although such activities still occur within all other political parties.


  • #36
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Fenian Army wrote: »

    When SF supporters "boast" about the TDs taking the average wage it is in reference to that fact, that the TDs are in touch with ordinary citizens not a claim that the state is saving money.

    35k salary and everything paid for by 45k worth of (un-vouched) expenses, how exactly is that in touch with ordinary citizens?


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  • #37
    Stuck Cone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Stuck Cone


    I thought it was mostly fuel laundering?


  • #38
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,714 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Stuck Cone wrote: »
    I thought it was mostly fuel laundering?

    SF laundering fuel? I'd love to see your links for that.
    Cookie_Monster wrote:
    35k salary and everything paid for by 45k worth of (un-vouched) expenses, how exactly is that in touch with ordinary citizens?

    ... and the expenses arent used to run constituency offices or anything?


  • #39
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    maccored wrote: »
    SF laundering fuel? I'd love to see your links for that
    Not everything involves "links" and it doesn't take a dunce to realise what the poster meant either.
    maccored wrote: »
    ... and the expenses arent used to run constituency offices or anything?
    Fire away and explain where their money goes then. Don't forget it comes from no less than three taxpayer bases (Rep.Ireland, Northern Ireland and Great Britain).


  • #40
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    maccored wrote: »
    ... and the expenses arent used to run constituency offices or anything?
    The SF constituency office experience must be amazing.


  • #41
    invinciblePRSTV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    djpbarry wrote: »
    maccored wrote: »
    ... and the expenses arent used to run constituency offices or anything?
    The SF constituency office experience must be amazing.

    Not amazing, just numerous. Even at the start of the last decade when PSF were a lot smaller in terms of elected officials, they had numerous office's dotted around the country.


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