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€25k invested in prize bonds

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Comments

  • #952
    Sonnenblumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭Sonnenblumen


    Heard on this evening's news, € 1mio PB monthly draw will now take place every 2 months. :(


  • #953
    dman15333
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭dman15333


    Just seen the Prize bonds website updated.

    The rate has gone from 2.25% to 1.75% to calculate the monthly fund.

    ''On 2nd June 2013 the National Treasury Management Agency announced a reduction in all State Savings interest rates. This changed, from 2.25% to 1.75%, the rate used to calculate the monthly prize fund.
    The prize structure was changed to ensure that, despite the reduced interest rate, approximately the same number of prizes will be awarded each week.
    The new weekly prize structure is as follows:

    €1 Million bi-monthly prize awarded on the last Friday of every second month (Feb, Apr, Jun, Aug, Oct, Dec).

    €20,000 awarded each week, other than when the €1 Million prize is awarded.
    5 €1,000 prizes.
    500 €100 prizes.
    Over 8,000 €50 prizes.''


  • #954
    Agent Smyth
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Agent Smyth


    I hope that if and when interest rates go back up they're as quick to increase the prize fund


  • #955
    highgiant1985
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭highgiant1985


    dman15333 wrote: »
    Just seen the Prize bonds website updated.

    The rate has gone from 2.25% to 1.75% to calculate the monthly fund.

    ''On 2nd June 2013 the National Treasury Management Agency announced a reduction in all State Savings interest rates. This changed, from 2.25% to 1.75%, the rate used to calculate the monthly prize fund.
    The prize structure was changed to ensure that, despite the reduced interest rate, approximately the same number of prizes will be awarded each week.
    The new weekly prize structure is as follows:

    €1 Million bi-monthly prize awarded on the last Friday of every second month (Feb, Apr, Jun, Aug, Oct, Dec).

    €20,000 awarded each week, other than when the €1 Million prize is awarded.
    5 €1,000 prizes.
    500 €100 prizes.
    Over 8,000 €50 prizes.''

    does this take effect immediately?


  • #956
    pbwinner
    Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭pbwinner


    Sonnenblumen wrote: »
    Heard on this evening's news, € 1mio PB monthly draw will now take place every 2 months. :(
    Confirmed on Morning Ireland and NTMA's website.


  • #957
    pbwinner
    Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭pbwinner


    highgiant1985 wrote: »
    does this take effect immediately?

    "The rate reductions will only affect new purchases that take place after today (Sunday 2 June 2013). They have no effect on the existing holders of Savings Bonds, Savings Certificates, Instalment Savings or National Solidarity Bonds, as those interest rates have already been fixed for the duration of their term.

    Any money already placed in previous issues of these products will continue to receive, for their remaining term, the fixed rates applicable to each product on the day that it was purchased."

    http://www.ntma.ie/news/ntma-announces-new-issues-of-state-savings-products-and-changes-to-interest-rates/


  • #958
    brownbeard
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭brownbeard


    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/financial-services/ntma-rate-cut-to-affect-interest-for-an-post-savers-1.1415165

    "...the agency also announced changes to the variable rate products which will have an immediate effect on prize bonds and the 30-day notice deposit account plus.The variable rate of interest used to determine the value of the monthly prize fund is 1.75 per cent, with the top prize structure also changing."


  • #959
    Tisserand
    Registered Users Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Tisserand


    Liveline will be covering the subject of prize bonds today for anyone interested. They are looking for people who have won prizes to phone in.


  • #960
    oaklands
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭oaklands


    highgiant1985 wrote: »
    does this take effect immediately?

    As per the NTMA press release:
    Prize Bonds prize fund rate is now 1.75% – with effect from Sunday 2 June 2013 the variable rate of interest used to determine the value of the monthly prize fund is 1.75%. The top prize structure is also changing. Previously there was a €1 million prize each month, but now, with immediate effect, there will be a €1 million prize in the last weekly draw of each second month, viz. February, April, June, August, October and December.

    If I am reading the legislation correctly (Regulation 11):
    (1) The number of prizes and the amount of each prize to be awarded to bonds selected for prizes in a draw shall be determined by the Operator with the approval of NTMA provided always that the total amount made available for the payment of prizes generally shall not in any event be less than the amount of interest payable on all bonds outstanding at midnight on the last day of the month immediately preceding the month in which the draw is held.”.

    This would suggest that they are legally obliged not to make any changes (to the overall value of prizes) until the July draws as the 'rate' change is effective from June 2nd.

    To make any changes in the June draws they needed to make the changes effective from before midnight on May 31st.

    As always the above is subject to correction....


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  • #961
    oaklands
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭oaklands


    Just some quick notes on the recent changes....

    The recent changes have the following impact (based on May'13 numbers):
    • Total prize fund reduced by €9.66M per annum
    • Total # prizes reduced by just over 1,000 per week (9,534->8,497)
    It will be interesting to see the impact of these changes on the growth/decline of PBs. The last time they announced a reduction in the the prize fund in Dec'12 there was a surge in growth. If the same thing happens again maybe they should consider increasing the prize fund. ;)

    Seriously though..the most likely reason people have flocked to PBs is that the guarantee has elapsed for amounts over 100k on deposits and the Banks have yet again successfully lobbied the Government. This is likely to end up as a race to zero for PBs unless & until the Banks morph into profitable, sustainable & trusted commercial enterprises.


  • #962
    Agent Smyth
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Agent Smyth


    My understanding of the prize bonds is the fund will be used by the government to offset state borrowings. Now I know the 1.7 billion fund is a small amount in the greater scheme of things but I would like to know if the government went to the markets to borrow this money, What rate would they be charged. my guess is it would be around 5 to 6 % mark.


  • #963
    oaklands
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭oaklands


    Agent Smyth wrote: »
    .... my guess is it would be around 5 to 6 % mark.

    I think they(we) got a small bit better than that recently.

    Given the likely recent pressure that the banks put on the Gov/NTMA to reduce rates, which in all honesty doesnt sound unreasonable, I was just checking to see what the banks are charging for personal loans.

    One of the main main banks is charging between 10->15% APR on personal loans, which I presume they only give out to rock-solid punters these days(if at all) who are asset or guarantee backed (i.e. safe-bets). So I wonder did the government seek a quid-pro-quo from the banks and get them to lower the lending rates for the citizens who are paying all the bills via tax & interest! Probably not, as that would be market interference (which the PB adjustment musn't be ???).


  • #964
    Agent Smyth
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Agent Smyth


    In April the Independent reported that Irish Government 10 year Bonds fell to 3.98% which is more then double what they are going to pay us for the PBs, considering that there is no guarantee of a return on the PBs they should at least pay market rate for the fund.


  • #965
    gabbytheking
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 87 ✭✭gabbytheking


    Agent Smyth wrote: »
    In April the Independent reported that Irish Government 10 year Bonds fell to 3.98% which is more then double what they are going to pay us for the PBs, considering that there is no guarantee of a return on the PBs they should at least pay market rate for the fund.

    Very unlikely though man! I'd be surprised if they pay anything at all. If you think about the amount of Bonds that must be wrote off each year from lost bonds and unclaimed bonds(after death etc) each year, its mad. And that's before you even consider any Present Value of cashflows!


  • #966
    Alderwould
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 56 ✭✭Alderwould


    The 6yr instalment bond is still paying 2.41% AER Tax free which is quite good when one considers the growth required from a managed fund to net such a return after CGT, Management fees and other charges...


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  • #967
    gordongekko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    Alderwould wrote: »
    The 6yr instalment bond is still paying 2.41% AER Tax free which is quite good when one considers the growth required from a managed fund to net such a return after CGT, Management fees and other charges...
    how do you know what variable rates are going to be for the next 6 years?


  • #968
    Alderwould
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 56 ✭✭Alderwould


    gordongekko wrote: »
    how do you know what variable rates are going to be for the next 6 years?

    2.41% AER guaranteed and tax free is quite decent. When one considers the growth required to match it once CGT and in litany of fees are taken out of an Insurance product...


  • #969
    scotchy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,205 ✭✭✭scotchy


    Just in the door from work.

    A cheque for €50 sitting in the hall:)

    First win in a while. I Have about 6 or 7 K in bonds I think.

    Seriously thinking of getting rid of them and not buying any more after the recent prize changes.

    .

    💙 💛 💙 💛 💙 💛



  • #970
    oaklands
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭oaklands


    In case you may be interested, attached is a merged copy of the 1993 Regulations and the subsequent Ammendments up to 2008.

    Its easier to understand when all the changes are merged into one document.
    Any ammendments mades are highlighted in a different colour and/or formatted with strike-through.

    have fun....
    NB: This is not an official document and is subject to correction.


  • #971
    pbwinner
    Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭pbwinner


    Winnings from today's draw: €0
    Total winnings since Feb 2011 on €25k: €1100


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  • #972
    oaklands
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭oaklands


    It looks like the prize fund has been adjusted in today's draw in line with the new rates.

    However, as per my earlier post it looks that they may have ignored regulation 11 which suggests that they should not have adjusted the prize fund until next month, as the new rate was only effective from June 2nd.

    If my reading is correct, the impact is that they plan to pay out €160K less this month than they otherwise should (€40k x 4).

    Will be interesting to see how this pans out.......!


  • #973
    Agent Smyth
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Agent Smyth


    Winnings from 07/06/13 draw €50
    Last win 31/05/13 €50
    Total wins 2013 €500
    Total wins 2012 €375


  • #974
    Agent Smyth
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Agent Smyth


    Have just rung the PB to enquire why they have adjusted the fund in June and not July.
    they took my name and number and will get someone to ring me about my query
    probably wont get a call today but will ring again on Tuesday if they haven't called


  • #975
    Agent Smyth
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Agent Smyth


    Just got a call from the PBs about my query and they basically told me that the fund was calculated correctly with the new interest rate and quoted the press release,

    "The value of the monthly prize fund is recalculated at the start of each month by applying a variable interest rate (currently 1.75%) to the value of all Prize Bonds outstanding at the end of the previous month. The Prize Bond Company reserves the right, with the prior approval of the NTMA, to amend the number and value of prizes. Prior to the introduction of any changes to the variable interest rate or the prize structure, a notice will be placed in the main daily newspapers and on the www.StateSavings.ie website."

    I then asked about PB Regulation number 11

    11. (1) The number of prizes and the amount of each prize to be awarded to bonds selected for prizes in a draw shall be determined by the Operator with the approval of NTMA provided always that the total amount made available for the payment of prizes generally shall not in any event be less than the amount of interest payable on all bonds outstanding at midnight on the last day of the month immediately preceding the month in which the draw is held.

    The difference being they calculate at the beginning and the regulation calculates at the end of the month,
    They again said they would look into it and call me back on Monday.


  • #976
    Agent Smyth
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Agent Smyth


    If my figures are correct it would seem the PB fund is about 1,779,519,99 Euro at the end of May 13,
    Which means at the moment there are about 284,723,200 bonds.

    During May I reckon the PB fund grew by 40,284,444 Euro,
    Which means there will be an extra 6,445,511 bonds in each draw during June compared to May.

    I would estimate that on average there was a net growth in the PB fund of 1,831,111 Euro each working day during May.
    Unless I have made a mistake (which is quite possible) That's nearly double the daily rate in April.
    There will be 812 less winners per week (€50) in June due to the percentage cut to 1.75%
    but if the interest rate was left at 2.25% then there would be an extra 349 €50 winners per week


  • #977
    hairyprincess
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭hairyprincess


    Winnings from todays draw: €0

    Total winnings since Feb 2010 on €500: €150
    Total winnings since Feb 2011 on €50: €0


  • #978
    oaklands
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭oaklands


    @Agent Smyth
    My own calculations agree with yours.

    If the regulations were implemented incorrectly, then 1,161 additional €50 prizes should have been awarded in today's draw and similarly for the rest of this month. This would equate to a shortfall in prizes of €58k today or €232k for the full month of June'13.

    The surge last month seems to fit with the expiry of the guarantee for amounts over 100k, and is likely to increase further as fixed term deposits mature.


  • #979
    oaklands
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭oaklands


    It is worth noting that the effective/average return on winning a €50 or €100 prizes is now at 1.347% (down from 1.4991% last month).

    For people with less than €25k in PBs, then only the €50 prizes should be considered when looking at an effective/average annual return, which is 1.2%(down from 1.3496 % last month)

    (if you are comparing to deposits, dont forget to allow for the 33% DIRT)

    Lets face it the odds of winning any of the other prizes is so remote there is no point including/considering them at all, as only a very small number of people will ever win the 1M, 20k or 1,000 prizes in any year.

    By removing 6 x 1M prizes every year, they have mitigated the impact on the average return for most people.

    Based on the experience of the last 6 months, we shouldnt expect to see any material slowdown in the growth in PBs as the real issue seems to be bank guarantees for deposits over 100k. It seems the only way the Banks will get what they want is if the Gov closes down all state savings and PBs, rather than messing around with rates.


  • #980
    aaakev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭aaakev


    Was going to do it last year but never got around to it, iv 2k in my pocket and was going to throw it into pb today, good idea?


  • #981
    aaakev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭aaakev


    Well i bit the bullet and bought €2,000 worth this afternoon, it probably would have been spent on stuff i dont need so its safe now for a while! Fingers crossed


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  • #982
    Agent Smyth
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Agent Smyth


    @ aaakev

    Best of luck, Don't forget to keep us informed of any good news.


  • #983
    Agent Smyth
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Agent Smyth


    Just got a call from the people at the PBs, Informing me that the NTMA will be writing to me in relation to my query about the interest change.


  • #984
    FoolsGold1
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭FoolsGold1


    No winnings from Draws of 31/5/13 and 7/6/13.
    Last win 12/4/13 - €50.
    Total winnings for 2013 - €500.


  • #985
    oaklands
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭oaklands


    Agent Smyth wrote: »
    Just got a call from the people at the PBs, Informing me that the NTMA will be writing to me in relation to my query about the interest change.

    Prize fund reduced for 2nd time this month & still no definitive clarification from PB office or NTMA about potential error in the application of regulation 11! :confused:


  • #986
    GarIT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    I'm new to PBs so I was looking for a bit of advice, I got €1,500 worth at the end of April and I won €50 today. It says at the bottom of the tracker page to write to them, Do I actually need to do this? I thought they would have contacted me.

    It also says to send them the bond certificate, do I actually need to do this or would a copy do?


  • #987
    oaklands
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭oaklands


    You should get a cheque in the post mid next week, without doing anything.
    If you dont get anything within 10 days call them up.


  • #988
    FoolsGold1
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭FoolsGold1


    No and No! They'll post your cheque which will probably arrive on Tuesday or Wednesday. Congratulations too - you are one of the lucky ones. :)

    My winnings from today's Draw - Nil. :mad:
    Last win 12/4/13 - €50.
    Total winnings for 2013 - €500.


  • #989
    Agent Smyth
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Agent Smyth


    Winnings from 14/06/13 draw €0
    Last win 07/06/13 €50
    Total wins 2013 €500
    Total wins 2012 €375


  • #990
    hairyprincess
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭hairyprincess


    Winnings from todays draw: €0

    Total winnings since Feb 2010 on €500: €150
    Total winnings since Feb 2011 on €50: €0


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  • #991
    pbwinner
    Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭pbwinner


    Winnings from today's draw: €50
    Total winnings since Feb 2011 on €25k: €1150


  • #992
    WhiteMan32
    Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭WhiteMan32


    Winnings from today's draw: €0
    Total winnings since Feb 2012 on €12k: €250


  • #993
    smemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,467 ✭✭✭smemon


    Winnings from this Friday's draw: €0
    Total winnings since Jan 2013 on €50: €0


  • #994
    B787DB
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭B787DB


    A bit off topic, but does anyone know what the Account Number on the prize bonds cert and the filling out the form means, and is it of any benefit?


  • #995
    GarIT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    B787DB wrote: »
    A bit off topic, but does anyone know what the Account Number on the prize bonds cert and the filling out the form means, and is it of any benefit?

    The first time you get prize bonds they need photo ID, proof of address and proof of your PPS number. They keep these on file so if you put in the account number they won't ask for these again. If you leave the account number blank you will have to send in your documents again. So basically the account number is just a link to the proof of who you are.


  • #996
    aaakev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭aaakev


    GarIT wrote: »
    The first time you get prize bonds they need photo ID, proof of address and proof of your PPS number.

    Thats only for deposits of 1k or over or so i was told in the post office last week when i bought mine


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  • #997
    aaakev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭aaakev


    Just arrived home to find my bond certificate for €2,000 arrived :) how do i check every week to see if i have won anything?

    EDIT: just signed up for the bond tracker, roll on friday!!


  • #998
    FoolsGold1
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭FoolsGold1


    OK, that's a start and best of luck to you. We'll be keeping an eye on your fortunes!


  • #999
    uberalles
    Registered Users Posts: 836 ✭✭✭uberalles


    How do you cash in some prize bonds?

    A cover letter requesting a cheque and include the bonds? I see no exact info on how to cash bonds.


  • #1000
    Mezcita
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Mezcita


    uberalles wrote: »
    How do you cash in some prize bonds?

    A cover letter requesting a cheque and include the bonds? I see no exact info on how to cash bonds.

    Point 15.

    http://www.prizebonds.ie/about/prizebondsfaqs.pdf


  • #1001
    pbwinner
    Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭pbwinner


    Winnings from today's draw: €0
    Total winnings since Feb 2011 on €25k: €1150


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