€25k invested in prize bonds

dxhound2005 · 07-05-2017 10:39am

Blue House Bear wrote: »

Would I be correct in assuming that sticking 50k into prize bonds would more than likely earn me more than state saving schemes or banks? I know you can potentially win nothing.

Are you up for an experiment? Put €25K into Prize Bonds for a year or whatever period you like and €25K into the best savings scheme you can find. But one which will allow you to withdraw the money at any time with no penalty.

Since you can potentially win nothing you are not correct in assuming that €50K invested in Prize Bonds would earn you more than saving schemes. So there is only one way to find out.

I have a block of €10K in my bonds for a number of years. It has won €100 in each of 2014, 2015 and 2016, nothing to date this year. That is just my experience, not a guide to what might happen for anyone else.

Ignore the figures in that other link which is three years out of date. The notional interest rate is now 0.85% not 1.60%.

http://www.statesavings.ie/PrizeBonds/Pages/PressReleases.aspx

rdavey14 · 07-05-2017 10:53am

syklops wrote: »

I got a 100 pounds worth of Prize bond about 25 years ago. Still waiting for a cheque to come in the post.

Be interested to see how you get on though.

Those prize bonds are void now

abff · 10-05-2017 11:17am

I finally got around to purchasing some prize bonds and I got a certificate in the post today. I've signed up for online notifications.

Just out of interest, will my bonds be included in this week's draw or is there a waiting period? I couldn't find anything about a waiting period in the FAQs, which seems to suggest that I should be included straight away.

abff · 10-05-2017 11:22am

cork93 wrote: »

Absolutely not.

http://moneysmart.ie/prize-bonds-prize-idiots/

Apart from the fact that the article is a few years old and therefore doesn't reflect current interest rates, it is written by an adviser whose philosophy is that you should NEVER hold cash as an investment and it doesn't address the expected return that you might receive after stripping out the larger prizes.

Anyway, I'll post here if I win anything (unless it's €1,000,000, in which case I won't tell anybody!).

abff · 10-05-2017 11:33am

I've just been reading the FAQs and I came across the following:

I have Prize Bonds for many years, what has happened to them?

Your Prize Bonds are included in every draw until you cash them in. All Prize Bonds, regardless of how old they are, stand an equal chance, relative to the unit value, of winning a single prize in every draw. Even if one of your Prize Bonds wins a prize in a particular week it is included in every subsequent draw.

I've highlighted the words that caught my attention. Pre euro prize bonds cost IR£5, which equals €6.35. This is 1.6% more than current bonds cost. Does this mean that these bonds have a 1.6% greater chance of winning each week? If so, how do they program their random number generator to achieve this? Logistically, I imagine this would be quite challenging.

abff · 10-05-2017 12:40pm

abff wrote: »

I've just been reading the FAQs and I came across the following:

I have Prize Bonds for many years, what has happened to them?

Your Prize Bonds are included in every draw until you cash them in. All Prize Bonds, regardless of how old they are, stand an equal chance, relative to the unit value, of winning a single prize in every draw. Even if one of your Prize Bonds wins a prize in a particular week it is included in every subsequent draw.

I've highlighted the words that caught my attention. Pre euro prize bonds cost IR£5, which equals €6.35. This is 1.6% more than current bonds cost. Does this mean that these bonds have a 1.6% greater chance of winning each week? If so, how do they program their random number generator to achieve this? Logistically, I imagine this would be quite challenging.

I was thinking about this while I was walking the dog right now. (I know, I need to find something more interesting to occupy my thoughts!). Anyway, I figure the only logical way they could handle it would be to increase the prize by 1.6% if someone with an older bond wins a prize.

Wouldn't have much impact on the overall amount paid out unless an older bond were to win the €1 million prize, which would cost an extra €16,000. I guess any excess paid out could be offset against the amount paid out in the following draw.

rdavey14 · 10-05-2017 5:05pm

abff wrote: »

I've just been reading the FAQs and I came across the following:

I have Prize Bonds for many years, what has happened to them?

Your Prize Bonds are included in every draw until you cash them in. All Prize Bonds, regardless of how old they are, stand an equal chance, relative to the unit value, of winning a single prize in every draw. Even if one of your Prize Bonds wins a prize in a particular week it is included in every subsequent draw.

I've highlighted the words that caught my attention. Pre euro prize bonds cost IR£5, which equals €6.35. This is 1.6% more than current bonds cost. Does this mean that these bonds have a 1.6% greater chance of winning each week? If so, how do they program their random number generator to achieve this? Logistically, I imagine this would be quite challenging.

After 15 years they become dormant

Cork Lass · 10-05-2017 6:04pm

rdavey14 wrote: »

After 15 years they become dormant

Do you have a source for that info. I've had bonds longer than that and won on one recently.

abff · 10-05-2017 6:52pm

rdavey14 wrote: »

After 15 years they become dormant

I presume that only applies if they have tried to contact the owner of the bonds and have not received any response (or had a cheque returned because no longer at that address, or just not cashed)?

dxhound2005 · 10-05-2017 7:55pm

abff wrote: »

I was thinking about this while I was walking the dog right now. (I know, I need to find something more interesting to occupy my thoughts!). Anyway, I figure the only logical way they could handle it would be to increase the prize by 1.6% if someone with an older bond wins a prize.

Wouldn't have much impact on the overall amount paid out unless an older bond were to win the €1 million prize, which would cost an extra €16,000. I guess any excess paid out could be offset against the amount paid out in the following draw.

Each bond bought for IR£5 has a slightly better chance of winning compared to those bought at €6.25. This is catered for in the software.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/si/582/made/en/print

a) in the case of a bond to which the serial number DL000001 or a subsequent serial number has been allocated pursuant to Regulation 5, €6.25; and

(b) in the case of all other bonds, €6.35”;

(b) in paragraph (1) of Regulation 4, by the substitution of “€6.25” for “ £5”; and

(c) in Regulation 9, by the substitution of the following paragraph for paragraph (2):

“(2) Each bond included in a draw shall have a chance of being selected for a prize in proportion to the principal repayable in respect of the bond.”.

To the poster who says bonds become dormant, they don't. Every extant bonds is entered into every draw.

mcgragger · 10-05-2017 8:19pm

Ive about 1000 worth of these and have never won a cent.

Luck of the draw!!

dxhound2005 · 10-05-2017 8:26pm

mcgragger wrote: »

Ive about 1000 worth of these and have never won a cent.

Luck of the draw!!

If you have them since 1957 it could be regarded as fairly bad luck.

mcgragger · 10-05-2017 8:28pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If you have them since 1957 it could be regarded as fairly bad luck.

Not quite 1957 .... :-)

GarIT · 10-05-2017 9:46pm

abff wrote: »

Just out of interest, will my bonds be included in this week's draw or is there a waiting period? I couldn't find anything about a waiting period in the FAQs, which seems to suggest that I should be included straight away.

Bonds are included in all draws from the day payment is received even if you hadn't received the certificate.

rdavey14 · 10-05-2017 10:55pm

Cork Lass wrote: »

rdavey14 wrote: »

After 15 years they become dormant

Do you have a source for that info. I've had bonds longer than that and won on one recently.

http://www.statesavings.ie/Products/Pages/DormantAccountInfo.aspx

dxhound2005 · 10-05-2017 11:35pm

Prize Bonds do not become dormant. Every draw there are winners from bonds purchased in each decade going back to the 1950's.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/personal_finance/financial_institutions/dormant_bank_accounts_in_ireland.html

Rules

What kind of dormant accounts are covered by the Acts?
The Acts apply to a deposit, share or current account in a bank or building society; an account, saving certificate, savings bond or instalment saving scheme with An Post; and certain life assurance policies. The legislation does not apply to accounts held in credit unions.

Nor are unclaimed prizes (not claimed after 6 months) transferred to the dormant account funds.

tuisginideach · 11-05-2017 8:06am

GarIT wrote: »

Bonds are included in all draws from the day payment is received even if you hadn't received the certificate.

Really? Date of issue on the prize bond seems later than when money disappears from my account!!! Who is holding my money in the meantime - the main NTMA account?

GarIT · 11-05-2017 10:05am

tuisginideach wrote: »

Really? Date of issue on the prize bond seems later than when money disappears from my account!!! Who is holding my money in the meantime - the main NTMA account?

I've no idea, I talked to someone from the number on the website about it 1~2 years ago and I was told as soon as they see the payment is received you're in the draws. There could be lots of other factors, if paying by cards, visa, for example, holds the money for 3 working days before passing it onto the seller, with a bank transfer your bank would hold the money for a day, cashing a check/bank draft would take a few days.

Bob24 · 11-05-2017 4:19pm

GarIT wrote: »

I've no idea, I talked to someone from the number on the website about it 1~2 years ago and I was told as soon as they see the payment is received you're in the draws. There could be lots of other factors, if paying by cards, visa, for example, holds the money for 3 working days before passing it onto the seller, with a bank transfer your bank would hold the money for a day, cashing a check/bank draft would take a few days.

I was a the post office this morning to get some. I paid instantly (debit card) and I was told they would be included in next week's draw.

honey12345 · 11-05-2017 9:55pm

600 won on 30k in since April 2015
nothing won on 50k in since April 2017

GarIT · 11-05-2017 11:39pm

Bob24 wrote: »

I was a the post office this morning to get some. I paid instantly (debit card) and I was told they would be included in next week's draw.

Debit cards aren't instant, it might leave your account straight away, but it takes the person on the other end a few working days to receive the money. As I said above Visa hold onto the money from card transactions for 2 (3 if you include the purchase date) before passing the money on. MasterCard are similar.

J.pilkington · 12-05-2017 6:31am

GarIT wrote: »

Debit cards aren't instant, it might leave your account straight away, but it takes the person on the other end a few working days to receive the money. As I said above Visa hold onto the money from card transactions for 2 (3 if you include the purchase date) before passing the money on. MasterCard are similar.

That's like saying you pay for €50 petrol via debit card but you can't actually get the petrol until it clears.

On the post offices end paying €50 cash is the exact same as paying €50 via debit / credit card from their records point of view(i.e. You have cleared your debt for the transaction) so I don't see why it would make any difference for a prize bond transaction

Bob24 · 12-05-2017 8:07am

Yes the idea of bank card is that while the transactions might take a few days to clear it is confirmed instantly and the money is put on hold on the buyer's account to garantee the payement . I've never came across a merchant regardless of what they sell which will wait for the transaction to clear.

I think the delay is more due to An Post processing the application form offline (the clerk takes the payment and makes copies your documents for further processing, but I don't think they completely set you up in the system).

tuisginideach · 12-05-2017 8:52am

Bob24 wrote: »

I was a the post office this morning to get some. I paid instantly (debit card) and I was told they would be included in next week's draw.

Wishful thinking I fear. With the huge increase in bond purchases [Irish Times article says €100 million put into Prize Bonds in 1st three months of this year], it is taking far more time to issue them (I think so anyway).

Bob24 · 12-05-2017 9:22am

tuisginideach wrote: »

Wishful thinking I fear. With the huge increase in bond purchases [Irish Times article says €100 million put into Prize Bonds in 1st three months of this year], it is taking far more time to issue them (I think so anyway).

Ok good to know. You know roughly how long it takes?

And once it's done they send you a letter or an email to let you know?

tuisginideach · 12-05-2017 11:30am

More like 10 days and you'll receive the paper bonds in the post.

robwen · 12-05-2017 11:44am

tuisginideach wrote: »

Wishful thinking I fear. With the huge increase in bond purchases [Irish Times article says €100 million put into Prize Bonds in 1st three months of this year], it is taking far more time to issue them (I think so anyway).

Tight hoors could do with increasing the prizes to match

tuisginideach · 12-05-2017 12:42pm

€50 today - back in the draw again:):)

dxhound2005 · 12-05-2017 1:35pm

robwen wrote: »

Tight hoors could do with increasing the prizes to match

How many prizes are there?

The National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA) sets the variable percentage rate used to calculate the annual prize fund.Effective from July 2016 this variable percentage rate is set at 0.85% of the total value of prize bonds outstanding.
The value of the prize fund is recalculated at the end of every month, so the total value of prizes paid out by the NTMA changes each month in line with the monthly net sales of prize bonds. Effective from December 2016 approximately 6,500 prizes are awarded each week:

7138 prizes in every draw in May 2017.

pbwinner · 12-05-2017 4:46pm

Taylor365 wrote: »

I know it's possible that it will stay at 0 for the year, but it's probably the same possibility of winning the mill. /QUOTE] yup!

€25k invested in prize bonds

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