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26-02-2014, 16:18   #496
helimachoptor
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26-02-2014, 17:20   #497
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Originally Posted by syklops View Post
Its not like the federation had a whole nest of Klingons with Federation-centric agendas to choose from.
Yes but I'm sure they have a diplomatic core blocked full of diplomats who are not major players in high end politics in the empire
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26-02-2014, 17:22   #498
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Originally Posted by norrie rugger View Post
OK i really do not get you.
If I am in a train and I jump, I land on the same spot. Why? Because I am moving at the same speed as the train. Relative to the train I am stationary, relative to the ground beneath the train I am moving at 70mph.

If I am standing on TOP of the train and I jump then air friction slows me down and the train (under its own propulsion moves faster than my new speed). If there were a vacuum there I would have landed in the spot that I jumped from as air friction is not present.
example is how easy it is to move your hand forward in a car (moving at 100mph) open the window, stick your hand out and move it forward, air friction now makes that a much harder thing to do.

People don't get slammed to the wall as Trek has inertial dampeners. These things are only needed during speed changes of the ship. The equivalent is that you can comfortably travel at 400mph in a plane but you get slammed into your seat at take off as the plane accelerates.

It has nothing to do with the "gravity" field of the ship. If the ship is travelling at 1/2 impulse then the shuttle is travelling at 1/2 impulse, as is the air in the ship and everything else. If the shuttle begins to move forward, at 10kmh, it is travelling at a ship relative speed of 10kmh but outside the ship it is travelling at 1/2impulse+10kmh.
If it continues out of the shuttle bay and there is no air friction to cause drag slowing it down it is still travelling at 1/2+10, just like if you are standing on something moving fast and throw something ahead of you. It will move faster that the object that you are standing on (untill air slows it down).
Just because the shuttle can normally not travel at 1/2 impulse is not the point, the inertia to get to that speed has been provided for by the ship that it is leaving
If the shuttle flies up and the ship flies down they smash into each other.
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26-02-2014, 17:23   #499
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Honestly Worf, given his family shunning, standing, shunning, absorption into Martok's family (a family of huge influence), his own standing as pretty much Martok's right hand and his relationship with Gowron, should have been posted as far from potential conflicts of interest and influence of/from the Klingon empire.
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26-02-2014, 17:33   #500
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Originally Posted by Indricotherium View Post
If the shuttle flies up and the ship flies down they smash into each other.
If the shuttle flies up and the ship stays where it is, they still smash into each other.
If the ship is hovering and the ship flies down they don't, it will go with it (within reason, same force that stops people leaving their positions when the ship flies "down". There is no down in space/zero G ). The Shuttle, to leave the decking of the ship has to generate thrust to counter the gravity of that decking, to a particular height, the gravity still has a hold on the Up/Down aspect of things (the inertial dampeners also act to prevent the ship moving in a way to change the position of the items within).
It is only generating enough thrust to counter that amount of gravity, not to break away from it.

That is why people don't fly away from earth when they jump away from it, even though the earth is moving through space at an awesome speed.
No on on earth is not moving. We are all moving at the speed on the Earth, if we are on the opposite side of the direction of earth's movement and jump we don't drift away. It still pulls us back
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26-02-2014, 17:59   #501
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Lads, its science fiction. dont ruin my lovely perception of Star Trek by bogging it all down in physics. I failed physics in college. I really dont need ye to remind me why!

Back to the run through. I should be starting S5, but I should REALLY be doing college work. something else putting me off it is the Klingon / Romulan story line. urgh.
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26-02-2014, 19:56   #502
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Originally Posted by IvySlayer View Post

Nagus Rom is cringeworthy stuff.
In saying that..... Nagus Zek goes to great lengths early in ds9 to demonstrate that the real power can be wielded from behind the throne. So maybe he really does see Quark as his successor.
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27-02-2014, 08:17   #503
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Originally Posted by oxygen_temp View Post
Absolutely, the warp argument I see. As I understand the fictional technology of warp, while in a warp bubble the ship and its contents are for all effect stationary, its the warp bubble itself that is moving.
As I understand it, how warp drive in Star Trek works is by contracting space in front of the ship, & expanding space behind the ship. I think it still propels itself, & the warp bubble is taking care of the bending of space.

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But what I was suggesting was any non faster than light motion would cause a forward exit from a ship difficult. As soon as the shuttle leaves the ship floor it is immediately stationary and under its own motion.
Ah, I see...I thought you meant ftl speeds initially. However, even at sublight the argument holds up. If the shuttle were to lift up from the shuttle bay floor, it would remain at the ships current velocity. There is no gravity in space to 'drag' the shuttle to a stationary position., & even the shuttle bay floor has a warning about a variable gravity environment....so when a shuttle is about to be launched, the gravity on the shuttle landing area is turned off...& voila, ship & shuttle are at the same speed.

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Imagine your standing on a train, if you jump your position on the train moves as it moves underneath you. If you jump on a starship you ship does not move underneath you because the ship is the source of your gravity. Thats why everyone doesnt get slammed into walls when the ship moves.
On a train, there is gravity form the earth as you mention. On a ship, there is gravity from the deck plating, so unlike the Earth, the source of the gravity is also in motion with you while on a starship. Why would you hit the walls when you jump up, if the downward pull of gravity is also moving along too? The ship, & pull of gravity are synchronized, unlike the train. Inertia dampers are a different tech, & they prevent people from being smashed into walls when going to warp, or a situation where the relative movement of the ship would be large.

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Once you maneuver a shuttle under its own power you are out of this gravity field, even speeds such as thrusters or an orbit would be problematic.
If you were travelling along at 20k mph in space, & were able to put your arm out a window & let go of a ball...the ball will stay beside the window. Without friction, there's nothing to slow the ball down. The shuttle is exactly the same.
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