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The great big "ask an airline pilot" thread!

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 821 ✭✭✭eatmyshorts


    What else can you see.? Asks smurf.......i can see id have brown trousers doing a europe to south africa run or vica versa......big MF TZ/CB's upto FL500. Thats the first excuse id have to kick off carrying 30mins en rte extra juice re deviations. Day time fine, night time a mare

    It's not that bad. Been down through that area quite often. It's Africa, so you just manoeuvre and avoid of your own free will.
    Bay of Bengal during the monsoon transit is a lot worse.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭amen


    Bay of Bengal during the monsoon transit is a lot worse.

    did that once as a passenger. Not nice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭SamAK


    Bay of Bengal during the monsoon transit is a lot worse.

    I flew over that way in late September and was pretty much smooth as silk the whole way, few slight bumps and the pilot had warned of possible turbulence over Bengal before take-off..but nothing really materialised.

    Any pilots here flown over that way when there's a Cyclone nearby?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,944 ✭✭✭✭scudzilla


    How come when looking at Flight Radar most commercial aircraft cruise at between 34,000 and 38,000 feet yet the small private jets hit 45,000??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭basill


    Service ceiling.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    small private jets hit 45,000??
    Because we are super cool and can achieve a lower cabin altitude than commercial airliners :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    14063953494_f938d32ebc_n.jpg

    About 4 feet physically to the left, but a million miles mentally....... :)

    Now, i hope that my traveling in uniform on FR question makes sense :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭basill


    Jeez they remind me of what the instructors at flight school wore. Captains of a PA28 prophesying about how much they knew about the commercial airline industry in the crew room on a wet and windy no fly day:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Growler!!!


    smurfjed wrote: »
    14063953494_f938d32ebc_n.jpg

    About 4 feet physically to the left, but a million miles mentally....... :)

    Now, i hope that my traveling in uniform on FR question makes sense :)

    At least they have Velcro on the back so you can take them off ( if you wish).

    Try these bad boys, sown onto my only descent bit of clothing :D. Had to get home from the wavy navy ASAP from Singapore to London then onto Shannon.

    19FADB57078B41D9937E69D3FD73E884-0000371550-0003553105-00640L-44DE8B8C335A47AE8FE9CA3703A5BE2F.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Growler!!!


    basill wrote: »
    Service ceiling.

    I thought your answer might have had a bit more info in it. Like differences in weights or maybe power to weight ratios.

    Even to explain that the commercial airliners can climb higher on a long sector once they burn off most of the trip fuel.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭adam88


    smurfjed wrote: »
    14063953494_f938d32ebc_n.jpg

    About 4 feet physically to the left, but a million miles mentally....... :)

    Now, i hope that my traveling in uniform on FR question makes sense :)

    I don't understand


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Lustrum


    Any chance of an explanation about the epaulettes for those of us with none but hoping for some someday please?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Growler!!!


    adam88 wrote: »
    I don't understand

    It's an old euphemism about promotion from First Officer to Captain.

    In the cockpit the move from the right seat to the left or Commanders seat is physically only a distance of a few feet. However the change in responsibility, duties and even thought process may as well be a million miles.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Growler!!!


    Lustrum wrote: »
    Any chance of an explanation about the epaulettes for those of us with none but hoping for some someday please?

    In most airlines it is:

    4 bars - Captain
    3 bars - First Officer
    2 bars - Second Officer

    In "posh" flight schools it is:

    4 bars - instructor
    3 bars - instrument rated
    2 bars - cpl
    1 bar - ppl

    Or something similar to show mammy and daddy that little Johnny is not wasting all their money:D

    I think Murph was showing his 4 bars cos he's recently been promoted? I could be wrong but congrats Murph it's a great achievement.





    To avoid confusion, the pic of my 2 bars was from the merchant navy. Colours signify branches, green for electric/electronic and purple for mechanical engineering.


  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭robbieVan


    Growler!!! wrote: »
    In most airlines it is:

    4 bars - Captain
    3 bars - First Officer
    2 bars - Second Officer

    adam88 was saying(I presume) he doesn't understand smurphs question about travelling on FR in relation to being promoted to captain. I also do not see the relation ?

    Smurph?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Growler!!!


    robbieVan wrote: »
    adam88 was saying(I presume) he doesn't understand smurphs question about travelling on FR in relation to being promoted to captain. I also do not see the relation ?

    Smurph?

    I may have misunderstood Adams question, so I'll let him clarify it.

    Here's the link to Murphs thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057196531 about travelling on FR in uniform.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Lustrum


    Growler!!! wrote: »

    I think Murph was showing his 4 bars cos he's recently been promoted? I could be wrong but congrats Murph it's a great achievement.





    To avoid confusion, the pic of my 2 bars was from the merchant navy. Colours signify branches, green for electric/electronic and purple for mechanical engineering.

    Ah, that could be it. If so, congrats on the move smurfjed - does this now mean there will be less time for pics of snazzy jets? Or more time maybe if you get your minion to do all the work!!

    When you have the time, what was the process to go from the right seat to the left ie. selection, training etc, and is there any difference between the process in your company and what a "normal" (for want of a better word) airline might do in selecting and training captains?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    I think that I should explain, to start with, for us, 4 stripes means that you are a captain, the star means that you are qualified on a jet aircraft rather than a piston.
    I passed my check ride yesterday and got awarded the position of Captain. I will continue to fly the same type of aircraft that I flew as a First Officer, but from the left seat, not the right one, so this is the move of about 4 feet.
    As a first officer, I was qualified to fly the aircraft, but while that means that I'm a contributing member of a team, the final decision wasn't mine, so if we had problems, I could just go sit in the cabin and play on the internet while the Captain had to coordinate the means of finding a solution.
    But now, all of those decisions are mine., but that said, so are the perks.
    I'm presently sitting in the first class cabin of a B777 in uniform as it is required to be allowed travel as an additional crew member.
    From Manchester, I'm jumping on Ryanair to Dublin where I get to surprise my parents with my new uniform and position, hence the reason that I wanted to use the uniform.
    Hope that this makes sense :)......

    Just to add, that I totally covered up on Ryanair, but put all the bars, hat jacket back on in the baggage hall. The look on my fathers face was priceless :)


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Well done, that's a big step. And I'm sure its been where you have been aiming for quite a while now.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Lustrum


    Congrats smurfjed, very well done - your folks must be very proud!

    Does the move to the left seat in your company open up more of the possibility of moving types in the future should you wish, or what do you see as the next step forward for yourself?

    (Obviously you will want to have some time settling in as a captain so feel free to ignore this question if it's a bit early or personal)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Simon Gruber Says


    Just a question about speedbrakes.

    In 2009 I was returning from Boston on an EI A330. When landing in Dublin I noticed they didn't extend on touchdown, in fact it was after reverse thrust was applied and the nose gear had touched down when they were extended. We then taxied to the gate and they remained extended at the gate after the engines were shutdown. What would have caused this? I'm purely guessing that for some reason they didn't auto deploy and the pilot had to manually extend them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    smurfjed wrote: »
    but from the left seat, not the right one, so this is the move of about 4 feet.

    Good work smurf. Sometimes I sit up the front on the upper deck of the 46A and pretend I am flying a plane.

    I will now ensure that I am sitting on the left hand side too, and shout to the person sitting on the right hand side "YOUR AIRCRAFT" as I ring the bell to get off at my stop.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 703 ✭✭✭Cessna_Pilot


    Just a question about speedbrakes.

    In 2009 I was returning from Boston on an EI A330. When landing in Dublin I noticed they didn't extend on touchdown, in fact it was after reverse thrust was applied and the nose gear had touched down when they were extended. We then taxied to the gate and they remained extended at the gate after the engines were shutdown. What would have caused this? I'm purely guessing that for some reason they didn't auto deploy and the pilot had to manually extend them.

    Don't know about the Airbus but on the Boeing, AUTO speedbrakes inop.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    In 2009 I was returning from Boston on an EI A330. When landing in Dublin I noticed they didn't extend on touchdown

    Normal Airbus philosophy for speedbrakes, only when both main gears have touchdown will the speedbrakes fully extend and automatic braking kick-in for example when both rear main gears touchdown they begin to half deploy when the main gear is fully down they fully extend. Reverse thrust isn't connected to speedbrake deployment on Airbus aircraft as its for this reason speedbrakes are also armed on Airbus aircraft prior to departure.
    in fact it was after reverse thrust was applied and the nose gear had touched down when they were extended.

    What I would think you are describing is the ''bogey-effect'' there are two noticeable thuds on an A330 upon touchdown, the four aft main wheels followed by the four fwd main wheels then lastly by nose-gear touchdown. It's only when all eight main wheels are down will automatic braking kick-in and speedbrakes fully deploy.
    We then taxied to the gate and they remained extended at the gate after the engines were shutdown. What would have caused this? I'm purely guessing that for some reason they didn't auto deploy and the pilot had to manually extend them.

    This is relatively normal, for example the aircraft you were on may have been headed for Malaga next and the maintenance team could have been waiting for a wing inspection which can require speeds-brakes be deployed (i.e. the pilot won't disarm them after landing) or even full flap deployment or possibly both.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    selection, training etc, and is there any difference between the process in your company and what a "normal" (for want of a better word) airline might do in selecting and training captains?
    Selection was by seniority. Although we are rated on the aircraft, the program called for attending a complete initial training course, so two of us went to the USA for a month last November, the simulator training consisted of our standard annual training followed by LOFT (Line Orientated Flight Training) flights, so we did 40 hours in the sim. Then it was a case of waiting for an instructor. For the flight training portion, we had to do a minimum of 20 legs and 30 hours. Then a 4 sector check ride :)

    This is actually airline based training and is a lot more than legally required.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    Does the move to the left seat in your company open up more of the possibility of moving types in the future should you wish, or what do you see as the next step forward for yourself?
    Wow interesting question :) Any fleet change is based on seniority, we have about 70 pilots but only 3 are still First Officers, so my Captain seniority is terrible. If we get a replacement for the G4, then i will get to move to that, or if the fleet size increases, i might get a sniff of something else.
    Alternatively, once i get 500 hours as Captain, then i can jump across and fly the A320 in the airline side, or if i want to stay corporate, i can move to our charter operation and fly the 7X.

    There are pros and cons to each of these plans, I'm happy and quite spoilt where i am now, so i have no desire to move anywhere :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,816 ✭✭✭billie1b


    smurfjed wrote: »
    Wow interesting question :) Any fleet change is based on seniority, we have about 70 pilots but only 3 are still First Officers, so my Captain seniority is terrible. If we get a replacement for the G4, then i will get to move to that, or if the fleet size increases, i might get a sniff of something else.
    Alternatively, once i get 500 hours as Captain, then i can jump across and fly the A320 in the airline side, or if i want to stay corporate, i can move to our charter operation and fly the 7X.

    There are pros and cons to each of these plans, I'm happy and quite spoilt where i am now, so i have no desire to move anywhere :)

    Well done and conrats on your command, wish you all the best with your career


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 525 ✭✭✭Suasdaguna1


    Jack1985 wrote: »


    What I would think you are describing is the ''bogey-effect'' there are two noticeable thuds on an A330 upon touchdown

    Not if your handy. :) sorry jack...couldn't resist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭BetterThanThou


    I've got a question I've wondered for a while, one of my dreams when I was younger was becoming an airline pilot, but it became something I decided against, due to a number of reasons. But, from the time that it was my dream, I had always wondered, what is it like flying a long haul flight? Are you constantly doing work, or are you occupying your time with something else while performing checks at set intervals?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    Our max range is 8:30 hrs, so not really long range but long enough to sit in the seat, today I'm heading off on a 6:30 hr flight so basically it should go something like this, top of climb, start recording fuel calculations and time so that we can see if we are on schedule and burning the planned fuel. We record RVSM heights every hour and engine parameters after about 3 hours. Passing the Greek FIR we will give a company position report on HF. The weather at destination isn't forecast to be that great, so we will constantly keep checking on it every time we can, that means by VHF with some of our ground offices, or HF listening to Shannon met report. We will cross 7 Flight Information Regions (FIRS), so we get to talk to quite a number of different controllers. The weather over Italy is also expected to be turbulent, so we will probably spend time trying to avoid the worst of it.
    We also get the pleasure of stuffing our faces with some awesome food, so that takes care of an hour of so :)
    Apart from that we get to look out and marvel at the amazing landscape.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭basill


    A typical atlantic crossing would involve a busy climb and early cruise phase as you obtain an oceanic clearance for the tracks, liaise with domestic atc, obtain weather, check systems and fuel, discuss a strategy for a diversion, and a quick PA to the pax before the punters get into the service and IFE. Prior to entering the ocean and track system we have various belts and braces checks that we do to ensure we are going in on the right track at the right mach no, level and time. There are further checks as we travel across the ocean to avoid a gross navigation error. Every 30 minutes we check fuel and the systems but most of us will be keeping a keen eye on the key things on a more regular basis. New forecast and actual weather will be obtained for the etops and operational alternates and a suitable strategy discussed and agreed should it be needed. We will also be listening out to both the distress and chat vhf frequencies and providing turbulence reports back to the office for any following company aircraft. Sig wx charts will be consulted to try and avoid and surprises for the pax - ideally with the seatbelt signs going on generally in anticipation of any bumps.

    In between there is chatting, food, coffee & tea, newspapers, books, ipads and all the company manuals for consultation. The latter especially when you have a visit to the sim or ground school training coming up. Getting up to stretch the legs and a wander is invaluable as well.

    Every crossing is different, for some the time flies and others you may be into the teeth of strong headwinds watching the minutes slowly tick by.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭Darwin


    Does each airline have their own SOP which describes what SLOP to apply for atlantic crossings or is at the discretion of the commander? How are weather diversions handled if you have to further deviate from this offset (e.g. is the avoidance reported to Shanwick who keeps tabs on things). Thanks :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    Darwin wrote: »
    Does each airline have their own SOP which describes what SLOP to apply for atlantic crossings or is at the discretion of the commander? How are weather diversions handled if you have to further deviate from this offset (e.g. is the avoidance reported to Shanwick who keeps tabs on things). Thanks :)

    SLOPs are standard in the NATS. You can SLOP 0, 1 or 2nm to the right. No other SLOP positions are allowed. Each commander is expected to choose a 1 or 2nm SLOP if the aircraft are capable of doing it automatically. If the aircraft does not have that facility, you are expected to stay on the centreline. All other things being equal, the choice should be random, but pilots will look at what other traffic in the area are doing, wind direction, direction of likely diversion etc when making their decision.

    Weather deviations require an ATC clearance from whichever control centre you are working at the time. If it is not possible to get one there is a standard procedure that involves deviating from the track and either climbing or decending 300ft depending on which direction you deviate, if you deviate by more than 10nm. You must also declare a mayday, and you would be expected to broadcast your intentions on 121.5 and 123.45.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭basill


    Its worthwhile noting that cpdlc really is the dogs proverbial these days. Most of the time you wouldn't bother using HF to make a wx deviation request but instead send it via cpdlc. The last few times i have been denied but as PP noted followed the contingency procedures. Once Shanwick saw us deviating they simply sent us a cpdlc message requesting for us to advise them when back on track and at level. Even without radar it really is a case of big brother watching you these days.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭OzCam


    Quick Q: When you see flight crew coming out of the Customs hall into Arrivals at DUB, are they usually before the pax from that flight, or after most of the pax, or is it not possible to say with baggage delays etc? IOW, are you first out, or last out?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Growler!!!


    OzCam wrote: »
    Quick Q: When you see flight crew coming out of the Customs hall into Arrivals at DUB, are they usually before the pax from that flight, or after most of the pax, or is it not possible to say with baggage delays etc? IOW, are you first out, or last out?

    What you doing out of the airsoft forum :D

    Almost impossible to say, there are so many variables at play. We will always be the last of the aircraft after the pax and post flight duties.
    Mr business man with only carry on luggage will be out past customs first. The family with small kids and checked baggage will be last.

    We will be somewhere in between. TBH I wouldn't be able to tell you most of the time who our pax were as I may not have seen them at boarding if they were brought out by bus etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭OzCam


    I get around.

    Thanks, that's what I thought.

    PS: I worked in DUB before I was an airsofter :) IT Support for DAA, as was. Job was a complete nightmare, trying to keep the networks, screens and Duty Free systems up while the builders were rebuilding T1 under us. I lasted 5 months, but I wasn't too upset about that, 'cos the guy before me lasted 2 weeks, and the one before him 3 days. Loved watching the pax - well certain pax ;) - go by though. I even wore a tie, most days.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    Thats it, training DONE!!! 6 months of "fun"..... i had to do a couple of observed flights once qualified, so first was to Paris and the second one was today, the grand total distance of 98 nms :) boy was it fun. We took off from a military airfield that is close to 5000 feet high, climbed to 16,000 feet, asked for direct to final approach fix and started descent, 300 kts down to 10,000 feet followed by 250 to about about 5 miles to the fix, then slowing down, configuring and landing, after that it was kinda strange as we got parked in unique parking. Full guard of honour to meet us, ceremonial guard etc, it was quite impressive. Total flight time, about 16 minutes :) ( i should add that all of the ceremony was for a visiting King, we just got to park in his spot before him :))

    Talk about two total extremes of our flight regimes :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,370 ✭✭✭b757


    smurfjed wrote: »
    Thats it, training DONE!!! 6 months of "fun"..... i had to do a couple of observed flights once qualified, so first was to Paris and the second one was today, the grand total distance of 98 nms :) boy was it fun. We took off from a military airfield that is close to 5000 feet high, climbed to 16,000 feet, asked for direct to final approach fix and started descent, 300 kts down to 10,000 feet followed by 250 to about about 5 miles to the fix, then slowing down, configuring and landing, after that it was kinda strange as we got parked in unique parking. Full guard of honour to meet us, ceremonial guard etc, it was quite impressive. Total flight time, about 16 minutes :) ( i should add that all of the ceremony was for a visiting King, we just got to park in his spot before him :))

    Talk about two total extremes of our flight regimes :)

    Congratulations! :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,944 ✭✭✭✭scudzilla


    One more for the private pilots here.

    In the movies ya see people on say, a gulfstream, they're flying over the atlantic from New York to London then the passengers decide they want to go to Rome instead so they just tell the pilot.

    How easy is it just to change course and arrival airport at this late stage??


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 821 ✭✭✭eatmyshorts


    scudzilla wrote: »
    One more for the private pilots here.

    In the movies ya see people on say, a gulfstream, they're flying over the atlantic from New York to London then the passengers decide they want to go to Rome instead so they just tell the pilot.

    How easy is it just to change course and arrival airport at this late stage??
    Pretty easy to do ATC wise.... But fuel requirements are a different problem!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 86 ✭✭olive20


    Just listening here to the Flight Radio and quick question about the current Dublin early summer showers.

    I heard the Aer lingus commuter prop plane they sound so calm and take any heading no problem but the jet pilots are left 15 right 15 constant and all talking over each other but kinda hear the quiver in the voices.
    Surely the bumps would be worse in the old prop planes?
    Or is it water being ingested into jets that seems more concerning?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 493 ✭✭MoeJay


    Maybe something to do with the fact that the jets might be moving a bit faster than the props and need the heading change a bit quicker...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    How easy is it just to change course and arrival airport at this late stage??
    The easy part is fuel and ATC, but then you have to consider overflight permits, landing permits and slots, handling agents, visas etc. In some parts of the world this sort of re-route is easy, in others it will be a nightmare :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭amen


    Or is it water being ingested into jets that seems more concerning?

    water ingestion is generally not an issue. Jet engines are designed/tested to operate in extreme weather conditions (monsoon type rains). There are some good videos available of these tests https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faDWFwDy8-U


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭View Profile


    olive20 wrote: »
    Just listening here to the Flight Radio and quick question about the current Dublin early summer showers.

    I heard the Aer lingus commuter prop plane they sound so calm and take any heading no problem but the jet pilots are left 15 right 15 constant and all talking over each other but kinda hear the quiver in the voices.
    Surely the bumps would be worse in the old prop planes?
    Or is it water being ingested into jets that seems more concerning?

    The prop boys are just used to bumbling around in the weather all the time where as the jet boys are always flying the clearer air above.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 86 ✭✭olive20


    Yeah different breed.
    Had a Cockpit J/S recently on the Atr and Wow I was impressed with the kit the Ladies had.(All Female crew that sector) Brand new plane.
    Different skills required from the looks of it, A Jet J/S never did it for me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭nd001


    When I do be listening to dublin atc you sometimes hear I think its the pilots or dispatchers talking to each other when the flight is on approach do dublin talking about stands for aircraft and loads for the next flight and fuel required. Is this calculated by the pilots before they even make it down or are they passed on the info via company. Thanks in advance


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,816 ✭✭✭billie1b


    nd001 wrote: »
    When I do be listening to dublin atc you sometimes hear I think its the pilots or dispatchers talking to each other when the flight is on approach do dublin talking about stands for aircraft and loads for the next flight and fuel required. Is this calculated by the pilots before they even make it down or are they passed on the info via company. Thanks in advance

    Most times it is the Flight Deck speaking to whats called 'station control', the station controller will then pass the figures onto the relevant dispatchers, most flight crews will know their next fuel load needed. Station Control also send all the relevant info of pax loads, flight crews, a/c type, reg and any specials on board to the destination airport of the flight.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭nd001


    thats great appreciate that. Do the flight crew know the fuel required based on knowledge of previous sectors flown or is their more to it


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