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Ireland v Scotland -Aviva Stadium - Saturday 10th March 5pm

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13567…33

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    #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    wtf

    no seriously

    wtf


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    #63
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    totallegend wrote: »
    In fairness now, a lot of us have been b*tching for a long time that Jennings hasn't gotten a fair shake from Kidney when he's been in great form for Leinster. Of course, his form for Leinster has dropped off a bit recently, but he's still a good player. I would have liked to see Henry get a run, but Kidney was never going to start with POM and have him backed up Henry, another guy with only one cap to his name.

    While I'm gutted for O'Brien and I think it weakens the team, let's just appreciate the fact that it's forced Kidney's hand into trying out a new guy. I hope POM goes well on Saturday, the Scots have a class act at 7 and with Barclay and Denton, their back row is probably their main area of strength so all three of our guys will have to be on their game.

    A part of it is that I would have gone with Henry over POM, but Henry surely has to be at least as good if not better than Jennings. I mean, he captained the Woflhounds, so somebody can see he is trustworthy.


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    #64
    roycon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭roycon


    was thinking the same thing captain. henry has been playing so well for ulster against quality opposition in the heineken cup as well as being a more flexible player.


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    #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Henry has been head and shoulders above Jennings this season.

    Kidney got the Jennings memo 3 years too late perhaps?


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    #66
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    MungBean wrote: »
    thomond2006 wrote: »
    ah here, that's a disgrace if he is in ahead of Henry.

    Its POM's first start though, you cant realistically have no experienced cover on the bench when blooding a new player. As much as I'd like Henry to be there if he was we wouldnt really have any cover. We know Jennings can do a job so he's the safer option I suppose.
    You mean experience like a 27 year old capped international who has captained his province (last time just a couple of weeks ago) and was one of the form back rows in Europe this season?

    Another brainless selection. Why did they keep Henry from the last ulster team exactly?


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    #67
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    roycon wrote: »
    was thinking the same thing captain. henry has been playing so well for ulster against quality opposition in the heineken cup as well as being a more flexible player.

    This is a good point, we lose POM, we have 3 specialists on the pitch.


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    #68
    Hype710
    Registered Users Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭Hype710


    Conservatism at its finest. Henry has been 23rd man afaik for the last three games and when the opportunity comes to get into the 22, is snubbed for Jennings despite the fact he's having a poor season. Henry, meanwhile, has been a revelation and the lack of experience logic is so flawed, it's not as if Jennings has a wealth of international experience either.


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    #69
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 16,758 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    TBH I think Kidney is really starting to feel the pressure. Players are getting injured and he must be starting to worry about his job. So instead of trying out untested, in form players, he's going back to the old reliables even though they aren't necessarily playing well.


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    #70
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Clegg wrote: »
    So can we start questioning Kidneys stance on Ulster players? I know Best has been made captain but he's the only provincial captai left in the starting line-up. That was a no brainer decision.

    Tuohy and Henry can feel very hard dome by in these selections. And lets not forget Craig Gilroy. A starting winger for Ulster who is apparently not good enough for the Wolfhounds :rolleyes:

    Muller is the captain of Ulster.


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    #71
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 16,758 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    danthefan wrote: »
    Muller is the captain of Ulster.

    That scuppers my line of thinking then.


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    #72
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    You mean experience like a 27 year old capped international who has captained his province (last time just a couple of weeks ago) and was one of the form back rows in Europe this season?

    Another brainless selection. Why did they keep Henry from the last ulster team exactly?

    I didnt realise Henry had been capped, I'm just trying to rationalise it from Deccies point of view. He might see two relatively untested players as being a bit risky and went for Jennings as a safer option.

    I'm with the rest of ya though in that I'd have Henry on the bench but as decisions go I'm not sure its the worst he's ever made. But what do I know I didnt even know he was capped. :o


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    #73
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    I wish we had a Lancaster-type person to come in and try out some new things. He could have tried to secure a job for himself by flooding the team with the old-guard, winning 3 or 4 games with mediocre rugby and negative selections, exactly what Kidney is doing, or trying to do. He was positive, tried new things, and it looks like things might be starting to turn his way based on the Wales game.


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    #74
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    danthefan wrote: »
    Clegg wrote: »
    So can we start questioning Kidneys stance on Ulster players? I know Best has been made captain but he's the only provincial captai left in the starting line-up. That was a no brainer decision.

    Tuohy and Henry can feel very hard dome by in these selections. And lets not forget Craig Gilroy. A starting winger for Ulster who is apparently not good enough for the Wolfhounds :rolleyes:

    Muller is the captain of Ulster.
    Youre right but in fairness Best was captain for a good while and Muller was picked because he's not away with Ireland and not subject to player management schemes.


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    #75
    Hype710
    Registered Users Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭Hype710


    O' Mahony will have to provide cover for Jamie at 8 as well, not sure he's played there since the Under 20s.


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    #76
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    You mean experience like a 27 year old capped international who has captained his province (last time just a couple of weeks ago) and was one of the form back rows in Europe this season?

    Another brainless selection. Why did they keep Henry from the last ulster team exactly?

    Henry has one cap, obtained on that 2010 tour to Australia and NZ where pretty much anyone who could tie their bootlaces got a cap. Not disputing that Henry would have been a better selection, but he is not experienced in an international context.


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    #77
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    Hype710 wrote: »
    O' Mahony will have to provide cover for Jamie at 8 as well, not sure he's played there since the Under 20s.

    good point. Would have made much more sense for Henry to be included


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    #78
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Tox56 wrote: »
    I wish we had a Lancaster-type person to come in and try out some new things. He could have tried to secure a job for himself by flooding the team with the old-guard, winning 3 or 4 games with mediocre rugby and negative selections, exactly what Kidney is doing, or trying to do. He was positive, tried new things, and it looks like things might be starting to turn his way based on the Wales game.

    Exactly how is England's predicament post-RWC, the same as that of Ireland's???
    It isn't, in the slightest.

    Stu Lancaster couldn't have kept even half that squad given what happened before.
    He had no option but to do what he did.


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    #79
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    totallegend wrote: »
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    You mean experience like a 27 year old capped international who has captained his province (last time just a couple of weeks ago) and was one of the form back rows in Europe this season?

    Another brainless selection. Why did they keep Henry from the last ulster team exactly?

    Henry has one cap, obtained on that 2010 tour to Australia and NZ where pretty much anyone who could tie their bootlaces got a cap. Not disputing that Henry would have been a better selection, but he is not experienced in an international context.
    While that's true he also has a lot of Ireland A and Churchill Cup experience.

    I just don't accept a guy whose around as long as him and has been such a big part of Ulsters H Cup form should be overlooked based on experience for Shane Jennings who isn't exactly the Methuselah of international rugby.


    But were we really expecting Kidney to reward form over familiarity?


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    #80
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Hype710 wrote: »
    O' Mahony will have to provide cover for Jamie at 8 as well, not sure he's played there since the Under 20s.

    POM played 8 against The Ospreys earlier this season.


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    #81
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Tox56 wrote: »
    I wish we had a Lancaster-type person to come in and try out some new things. He could have tried to secure a job for himself by flooding the team with the old-guard, winning 3 or 4 games with mediocre rugby and negative selections, exactly what Kidney is doing, or trying to do. He was positive, tried new things, and it looks like things might be starting to turn his way based on the Wales game.

    Exactly how is England's predicament post-RWC, the same as that of Ireland's???
    It isn't, in the slightest.

    Stu Lancaster couldn't have kept even half that squad given what happened before.
    He had no option but to do what he did.
    Yeah cmon guys, Ireland got to the quarter finals of the world cup with the oldest squad in the competition.

    How can you possibly think we had anything in common with the English experience?


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    #82
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Exactly how is England's predicament post-RWC, the same as that of Ireland's???
    It isn't, in the slightest.

    Stu Lancaster couldn't have kept even half that squad given what happened before.
    He had no option but to do what he did.

    He did not have to replace virtually every position in the team, and didn't have to play a rookie 8, 9, 10, 12 and inexperienced 13 against Wales, but he did, and they did just as well, if not better, than we did.

    I'm not advocating that sort of change obviously, we don't need it, most of our team picks itself. However, it really demonstrates the folly of taking a completely risk-free, incredibly convervative approach to certain selections.


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    #83
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Tox56 wrote: »
    He did not have to replace virtually every position in the team, and didn't have to play a rookie 8, 9, 10, 12 and inexperienced 13 against Wales, but he did, and they did just as well, if not better, than we did

    Yes he did. With all of those positions with the exception of 9, who was hardly a risky choice but turned out to have their own problems thus getting the drop.
    Unless you've been ignoring what has been happening with the England setup, a complete and utter clearout was inevitable and unavoidable.


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    #84
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Yes he did. With all of those positions with the exception of 9, who was hardly a risky choice but turned out to have their own problems thus getting the drop.
    Unless you've been ignoring what has been happening with the England setup, a complete and utter clearout was inevitable and unavoidable.

    I'd agree with Justin here, it's not quite the players abilities or ages that have had anything to do with the "clearout".


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    #85
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Yes he did. With all of those positions with the exception of 9, who was hardly a risky choice but turned out to have their own problems thus getting the drop.
    Unless you've been ignoring what has been happening with the England setup, a complete and utter clearout was inevitable and unavoidable.

    I'm not arguing that some players had to go, but even so, the size and speed of the clearout was something not all managers would have done. Not all players were dropped solely on their ability and age, but many were.


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    #86
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    emmet02 wrote: »
    JustinDee wrote: »
    Yes he did. With all of those positions with the exception of 9, who was hardly a risky choice but turned out to have their own problems thus getting the drop.
    Unless you've been ignoring what has been happening with the England setup, a complete and utter clearout was inevitable and unavoidable.

    I'd agree with Justin here, it's not quite the players abilities or ages that have had anything to do with the "clearout".
    I don't buy this.

    Nick Easter wasn't involved in any off field issues was he? He was dropped. A whole host of troublemakers weren't.


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    #87
    sensitive1960
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭sensitive1960


    Tox56 wrote: »
    I wish we had a Lancaster-type person to come in and try out some new things. He could have tried to secure a job for himself by flooding the team with the old-guard, winning 3 or 4 games with mediocre rugby and negative selections, exactly what Kidney is doing, or trying to do. He was positive, tried new things, and it looks like things might be starting to turn his way based on the Wales game.


    Yeah England now play such an attacking and expansive game-oh wait they've only scored 2 tries and these have been charge-downs.Our defence coach is doing a better job.


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    #88
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    sensitive1960 wrote: »
    Yeah England now play such an attacking and expansive game-oh wait they've only scored 2 tries and these have been charge-downs.Our defence coach is doing a better job.

    Did you see their game v Wales?


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    #89
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    In regards to Jennings, he was always going to be cover. It wasn't a planned pull out from O'Brien, so they went to someone who knows the setup and the systems already in place.


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    #90
    Hype710
    Registered Users Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭Hype710


    .ak wrote: »
    In regards to Jennings, he was always going to be cover. It wasn't a planned pull out from O'Brien, so they went to someone who knows the setup and the systems already in place.

    Henry has been out warming up before the games as 23rd man, fairly sure he knows them too.


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    #91
    sensitive1960
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭sensitive1960


    Tox56 wrote: »
    Did you see their game v Wales?


    Yeah I think it was the only game they failed to get a chage-down!


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