Dog attack question

Snake Pliisken · 22-11-2011 3:09pm #1

I was out with my dog playing fetch with a hurl and a tennis ball, usually we sneak onto a fenced off pitch but that was occupied today so we had to make due with the area beside it. An old chap who lives around the corner from me was walking his two Kerry Blues with his hard-man 30-ish year old son when one of the dogs bolted for mine and tried to attack it.

I've only had my dog now for about three quarters of a year, a mainly black lab mongrel who's probably the friendliest stupidest dog on the planet, but she does what she's told. There's a history with this guys dogs, a couple of years ago one of them savaged my old dog who then had to go to the vet for his fairly nasty wounds and it went for my mam who was rescued into a neighbours house. The dog that did it is gone now but the owner replaced it with another Kerry Blue. He has two, a male and a female- he keeps the male on the lead but lets the other one off because he says it's not aggressive.

Their loose dog attacked mine while we were playing fetch and to protect my dog, who I've never even heard growl, I ran over and gave the Kerry Blue a belt of the hurl on the back(it wasn't hurt, I didn't mean to hurt it either). The dog then backed down while the owner and his son came over shouting at me, the son threatening to take the hurl and leave me 'in a puddle of my own piss'. We all eventually calmed down when his son realised I wasn't going to fight with him. But they still said they were in the right, the owner standing by that his dog was okay to be off the lead because mine was as well and we left it at that. The dog's fine, she wasn't shaken or anything(too stupid to be).

Was I right to protect my dog? I've been told that Kerry Blues are supposed to be muzzled when out in public, any truth in that?

kildare.17hmr · 22-11-2011 3:21pm

Kerry blues dont have to be muzzeled, who ever told you that is talkin through their arse. They do however, like every dog, have to be kept under control.

Did the dog actually 'attack' your dog or just run over and start sniffing and squaring up?

Snake Pliisken · 22-11-2011 3:24pm

It had just started hanging onto her(my dog) neck area while standing beside her if you get what I mean.

kildare.17hmr · 22-11-2011 3:25pm

No i dont know what you mean sorry, with its mouth?

TooManyDogs · 22-11-2011 3:33pm

Snake Pliisken wrote: »

Was I right to protect my dog? I've been told that Kerry Blues are supposed to be muzzled when out in public, any truth in that?

Being honest I might have done the very same, I have swiped at a dog attacking mine before with a ball-thrower. It's maybe not 100% correct but I won't allow any aggressive dog attack mine and as far as I'm concerned it's my role as boss lady to protect my dogs, I ask them to trust me to make the rules and follow me so I have to protect them.

Kerry blues don't have to be muzzled but often aren't the best with other dogs.

The only real thing you can do is contact the dog warden and report the owner. The dog should only be off lead if it's 'under effective control' and running off to attack other dogs is no effective control

kildare.17hmr · 22-11-2011 3:39pm

If the OP says it was hanging on with its front legs I think they over reacted and the dog was curious and trying to play because from whats been said it does not sound aggressive

Snake Pliisken · 22-11-2011 3:48pm

I meant the Kerry Blue was hanging on with her teeth, in her mouth. Just to clarify.

Thanks TooMany, I felt the same way but needed to check with people who have an in-depth interest.

DamagedTrax · 22-11-2011 3:53pm

i'd have done the same. as long as you didnt mean to hurt the other dog then all you were doing is protecting your girl.

as TooManyDogs said, its your job to protect her and she looks to you for that protection. if she cant trust her pack leader it can, in some cases, eventually lead to anxiety and aggression... now obviously thats not going to happen over one small incident.

golden8 · 22-11-2011 4:33pm

I would of done the same thing. In fact I would report the incident to the gards and dog warden as the Kerry Blue owner was not in control and is dog aggressive. Although Kerrys are not required by law to wear muzzle, they are not responsible owners insofar as they know there is history with their dogs so should muzzle their own dogs as they are aggressive.

callmekenneth · 23-11-2011 11:18am

no proper dog owner ever wants to hit another dog but some people are not responsible dog owners, kerry blues are known to be aggressive and one should never be off the lead if it doesnt heel. you were right to do what you did and they were wrong for the simple fact that it bit your dog, end of story. even if it was friendly, yours might not have been so you shouldnt be put in the position of having to protect another dog from your own.

mine is a big ugly mongrel, a sweetheart normally but a divil gets in him when we're out walking, he gets very animated when he's on the lead so i keep a tight grip on him and dont allow other dogs near him (for their own protection) as he will try to dominate

the only time i have any trouble is when other dogs approach him. a jack russel went for him and i kept his teeth up out of reach but had to tell the owner that if i'd let him have done for that little dog so the onus is on each owner to look after their own dog

andreac · 23-11-2011 11:34am

If i had to kick or hit a dog to try and protect my dog i would, no questions asked.

I have done this in the past when my family dog was being attacked. I was kicking the dog to get it off her and i got bitten in the process, not a big bite but a puncture wound and it was bloody sore:(

So yes, i would whatever i had to or could to protect my dog should it arise.

kildare.17hmr · 23-11-2011 12:37pm

i would do the same if that happened and the dog bit mine, from your first posts i assumed it was not as serious as the title of the thread.

My family have always had Kerrys and they would never be off the lead outside because they are very quick to fight even dogs much bigger than them

borderlinemeath · 23-11-2011 12:45pm

Nobody who is a decent person wants to have to hit a dog but you were in a position where if you didn't act the the situation may have got a lot worse.

I love the look of Kerry Blues, beautiful dogs, but when I was a teenager one attacked my little terrier, I'll never forget it, the dog literally tore a lump out of her jaw and the owner did nothing about it. They can be very intolerant and aggressive towards other dogs and owners should keep them on the lead if they demonstrate this trait.

i124Q · 23-11-2011 12:53pm

Kerryblues are ugalayyy! Just my opinion.

john t · 23-11-2011 12:54pm

Never should you kick or use a weapon on a dog, if you need too restrain a dog you have hands which can hold the dog till its owner puts it back on a lead..kicking or striking dog with a hurley/ ball launcher is wrong, if a bully used this on my dog i would return the favor by letting them taste their weapon of choice..

kildare.17hmr · 23-11-2011 12:59pm

john t wrote: »

Never should you kick or use a weapon on a dog, if you need too restrain a dog you have hands which can hold the dog till its owner puts it back on a lead..kicking or striking dog with a hurley/ ball launcher is wrong, if a bully used this on my dog i would return the favor by letting them taste their weapon of choice..

Yeah hang on there john till i stick my hands in to pull off your dog thats attacking and BITING my dog:rolleyes: a smack with the hurl will be alot better for your dog than getting taken off ya and put down when it bit me for pulling it off

borderlinemeath · 23-11-2011 1:03pm

john t wrote: »

Never should you kick or use a weapon on a dog, if you need too restrain a dog you have hands which can hold the dog till its owner puts it back on a lead..kicking or striking dog with a hurley/ ball launcher is wrong, if a bully used this on my dog i would return the favor by letting them taste their weapon of choice..

You shouldn't have to, but if a dog is in full attack mode only a fool would use their hands.

DamagedTrax · 23-11-2011 1:14pm

john t wrote: »

Never should you kick or use a weapon on a dog, if you need too restrain a dog you have hands which can hold the dog till its owner puts it back on a lead..kicking or striking dog with a hurley/ ball launcher is wrong, if a bully used this on my dog i would return the favor by letting them taste their weapon of choice..

so you'd restrain a terrier (or any other driven breed) in attack mode with your hands? thats not always gonna end well :eek:

OP clearly said he slapped the dog, im assuming using the flat side of the hurl?

IMO it was the best thing to do in the situation - kept himself out of the dogs reach, protected his own dog and got the attacking dog away from his dog without hurting it.

fifilarue · 23-11-2011 1:25pm

I was very interested to see this thread as when I was out walking my Westie on Sunday, I had let him off the lead for a run. He's a smart little fella and very obedient and never strays too far from me. He spotted a man walking his collie (on a lead) and flew over, tail wagging like mad to say hello. In a split second, I saw the man hit my dog with a plastic stick-so much so that he (my dog) sort of fell over. I nearly dropped dead with shock. I ran over (I was about 10 metres from them) and the poor thing then thought I was going to hit him-he covered down to try and protect himself, with a look of terror in his eyes. I'm getting emotional just thinking about it again, it just broke my heart. He is a rescue dog and was pretty badly abused (physical scars still healing). He has come on fantastically well following a lot of love and training. He was a frightened, lost thing who hid behind the sofa and under tables and was very wary of human contact when he first arrived at our home. I shouted at the man (wrong I know but I had gotten a terrible fright), telling him to leave the dog alone and he shouted back that my dog was going to attack his (not true at all-tail wagging and ears back as far as I know are not signs of an attack) and that I should have 'a dog like that' on a lead. Have to add at this point that the dog in question is more Scrappy Doo than Hound of Baskerville. He then took to sort of swishing the stick (at this stage I had my fella back on the lead and he was cowering in against my legs, shivering). Luckily, another man came up (we were walking in the grounds of an old house, where a lot of people walk their dogs) and asked what was going on. I'm not sure what would have happened if he hadn't come along. I really feel that I let my poor dog down that day -it was me, in essence who had let him off the lead and attracted trouble. Apologies for the long post but I had to reply just to show the other side of the story.

User Friendly · 23-11-2011 1:49pm

john t wrote: »

Never should you kick or use a weapon on a dog, if you need too restrain a dog you have hands which can hold the dog till its owner puts it back on a lead..kicking or striking dog with a hurley/ ball launcher is wrong, if a bully used this on my dog i would return the favor by letting them taste their weapon of choice..

:rolleyes: course you would John,course you would.

getz · 23-11-2011 2:01pm

borderlinemeath wrote: »

You shouldn't have to, but if a dog is in full attack mode only a fool would use their hands.

i must be a fool,many a time over the last 40 years ,i have had to hold aggressive staffies and alsations apart, and only once has blood been drawn,and that was my stupidity in taking my eye off the ball.

TooManyDogs · 23-11-2011 2:36pm

john t wrote: »

Never should you kick or use a weapon on a dog, if you need too restrain a dog you have hands which can hold the dog till its owner puts it back on a lead

Putting your hands into a dog fight is the quickest and surest way to get bitten, it's an insane thing to do.

fifilarue wrote: »

He spotted a man walking his collie (on a lead) and flew over, tail wagging like mad to say hello.

If the man or his dog had previous history of his dog being attacked he could likely be very afraid and likely to over react. No-one knows what is any dog or dog walkers history and for that reason I never let any of my dogs approach any other dog unless I've had a word with the owner first, it's simply not worth the risk. My sister saw her dog get torn apart by 2 very large dogs and now shakes if she sees another dog come close to her dog, she's working on it but still rattles.

fifilarue wrote: »

my dog was going to attack his (not true at all-tail wagging and ears back as far as I know are not signs of an attack)

Not everyone is able to read body language so it's dodgy to make assumption that anyone will automatically know your dog isn't a threat. You also said that your dog 'flew' over to the man and the dog, approaching at speed is not good manners and can upset other dogs, just an FYI

tk123 · 23-11-2011 2:51pm

If my dog was being attacked then I would defend him but not if a dog just ran over to say hello. That said last year I had to lift and idiot dog off my guy who basically had a broken leg held together with plates and pins THREE times while their owner stood there in cuckoo land until a friend of ours told them the story with my guy and to go and get him. That cost us €170 in rays and the longest week and a half of my life waiting to see if he was ok and if damage had been done. To that effect if somebody's dog is being an arse and the owner is oblivious I either tell them or move on to get away from them. One bad experience can have a huge impact on a dog - I've experienced this with my guy and have spent a lot of time working on it. Why should I let somebody who cant be bothered training their dog undo all my work?

borderlinemeath · 23-11-2011 2:56pm

getz wrote: »

i must be a fool,many a time over the last 40 years ,i have had to hold aggressive staffies and alsations apart, and only once has blood been drawn,and that was my stupidity in taking my eye off the ball.

I think you're mixing it up. I'm not talking about aggressive dogs being held apart. I'm talking about physically separating two dogs when fully attacking each other - and if that is what you were doing - then yes I think you're foolish to do so.

Not that I agree with it - but shouldn't you have had those RBs muzzled?:rolleyes:

SingItOut · 23-11-2011 3:16pm

You had every right to protect your dog, dogs are members of our family and we should protect them any way we can. I would have done the same if another dog had attacked either of my two

Any aggressive dog, whether it be restricted breed or not should be muzzled when around other dogs and out in public. That's just responsible ownership.

getz · 23-11-2011 3:38pm

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I think you're mixing it up. I'm not talking about aggressive dogs being held apart. I'm talking about physically separating two dogs when fully attacking each other - and if that is what you were doing - then yes I think you're foolish to do so.

Not that I agree with it - but shouldn't you have had those RBs muzzled?:rolleyes:

you are the packleeder get between your dog and the other one ,be calm and assertive show not fear [its because you are showing your fear that the dogs dont respect you] i used to be involved with staffies showing and going to staffy clubs, years ago a dog would come into the club showing dominance,it did not take much to set off a fight so you would quickly learn how to handle those situations ,what could have turned into something nasty,ends up with just a growl.staffies in the UK do not need to be muzzled,unlike ireland who i must say did not think out their muzzleing laws properly

borderlinemeath · 23-11-2011 4:12pm

getz wrote: »

you are the packleeder get between your dog and the other one ,be calm and assertive show not fear [its because you are showing your fear that the dogs dont respect you] i used to be involved with staffies showing and going to staffy clubs, years ago a dog would come into the club showing dominance,it did not take much to set off a fight so you would quickly learn how to handle those situations ,what could have turned into something nasty,ends up with just a growl.staffies in the UK do not need to be muzzled,unlike ireland who i must say did not think out their muzzleing laws properly

So in different situation, at a dog show, where dogs are usually leashed, where I would the imagine owners and handlers to have knowledge of their dogs temperament and behaviour. Not the same as two dogs going hell for leather at each other.

And it's nothing to do with being a packleader, if a dog is being attacked by another it will defend itself regardless of what you want. Especially to "get between your dog and the other one".

getz · 23-11-2011 4:27pm

borderlinemeath wrote: »

So in different situation, at a dog show, where dogs are usually leashed, where I would the imagine owners and handlers to have knowledge of their dogs temperament and behaviour. Not the same as two dogs going hell for leather at each other.

And it's nothing to do with being a packleader, if a dog is being attacked by another it will defend itself regardless of what you want. Especially to "get between your dog and the other one".

as i said i have had dogs for over 40 years all staffies and bullies ,if you are a pack leader the others dog will not enter your space practice it,it really works

i124Q · 23-11-2011 4:36pm

LOCK YOUR BITHCES UP!!

star-pants · 23-11-2011 4:49pm

i124Q - rude, unhelpful and aggressive .... solution? - Ban

jamesd · 23-11-2011 4:57pm

john t wrote: »

Never should you kick or use a weapon on a dog, if you need too restrain a dog you have hands which can hold the dog till its owner puts it back on a lead..kicking or striking dog with a hurley/ ball launcher is wrong, if a bully used this on my dog i would return the favor by letting them taste their weapon of choice..

So if a unknown dog is biting your dog you are saying that you would bend down and catch him with your hands? Jesus thats just daft and stupid and your asking to be bit by pulling an unknown dog that is in the middle of an attack.

I would do as the above poster did and either hit or kick the other dog till be stopped attacking mine.

Dog attack question

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