Formula 1 2014: Round 4 - Chinese Grand Prix

Myrddin · 23-04-2014 11:30am

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I do agree he has come on in leaps and bounds from the spoilt child, but it's just more trained and rehearsed nonsense now.

I think because Hamilton wears his heart on his sleeve, he can never really hide his true feelings...so I wouldn't believe his gratitude & affection for the team is rehearsed in any way. If anything, when he doesn't deliver he beats himself up too much for letting the team down. To me, he's genuine.

Brian_Zeluz · 23-04-2014 11:37am

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

On the subject of Vettel, it's interesting to see that overall he is more disliked than Hamilton. When you think about it, that makes no sense.

I agree with you there, almost every F1 fan I know dislikes both of them.

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Vettel by contrast is funny, intelligent, interested in the world, knows and loves the sport like the back of his hand, doesn't parade himself in celebrity lifestyle supplements, sticks by his family and treats them with respect, and on the track he's brilliant, driven and very tough without crossing the line like Senna or Schumacher did.

Senna crashing into Prost

Schumacher crashing into Hill

Vettel crashing into Webber

Tea 1000 · 23-04-2014 11:38am

Myrddin wrote: »

I think because Hamilton wears his heart on his sleeve, he can never really hide his true feelings...so I wouldn't believe his gratitude & affection for the team is rehearsed in any way. If anything, when he doesn't deliver he beats himself up too much for letting the team down. To me, he's genuine.

I suppose that's the difference between our opinions. I don't buy the "heart on sleeve" crap from him at all. Massa does on the other hand. He's a properly genuine guy.

Myrddin · 23-04-2014 11:41am

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I suppose that's the difference between our opinions. I don't buy the "heart on sleeve" crap from him at all. Massa does on the other hand. He's a properly genuine guy.

Ah come on, for better, and mostly for the worse, he's given interviews clearly showing his frustrations. He doesn't hide his emotions, certainly not well.

Tea 1000 · 23-04-2014 11:44am

Myrddin wrote: »

Ah come on, for better, and mostly for the worse, he's given interviews clearly showing his frustrations. He doesn't hide his emotions, certainly not well.

To me it's like watching a clip of one of those silly Made in Kim Kardashian's Chelsea or some such bolox. Fake half-assed try to be something he's not in front of camera and the real him is all too obvious underneath his thin disguise.

Slutmonkey57b · 23-04-2014 11:54am

See, perception is everything. 2 different people can see the same thing in different ways.

I don't think I'd be able to spend 5 minutes with Hamilton without talking the mickey out of his gangsta attitude.

Yo. Sup my homie.

Tea 1000 · 23-04-2014 12:18pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

See, perception is everything. 2 different people can see the same thing in different ways.

I don't think I'd be able to spend 5 minutes with Hamilton without talking the mickey out of his gangsta attitude.

Yo. Sup my homie.

It's the diamond earrings that get my goat! I'd have to rip them out!
Maybe he's a nicer guy than I think though.

the culture of deference · 23-04-2014 1:06pm

MS.ing wrote: »

people forget unlike hamilton he didnt just walk into a WC winning car at McLaren, he did it the hard way through TR with that awesomme 4th in china in the rain, and a win at Monza. Whereas golden boy went straight in at the top at McLaren.

Lewis had proven himself in other formula's.
9 podiums in his 1st 9 races with FA as your team mate

he should have been champion in 2007, but they let kimi steal it. I always felt that ron dennis was told by bernie there is no way lewis is allowed to win the champ in his rookie year

PopePalpatine · 23-04-2014 1:34pm

Brian_Zeluz wrote: »

Senna crashing into Prost
[IMG.]https://straightspeed.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/suzuka901.jpg[/IMG]

Schumacher crashing into Hill
[IMG.]http://i.gyazo.com/d976f883fd10e9ff13e6abe28d8b5f6c.png[/IMG]

Vettel crashing into Webber
[IMG.]http://i50.tinypic.com/a1tu83.gif[/IMG]

*facepalm*

Yes, because of course Vettel smacking into Webber was intentional. Senna took Prost out in the penultimate round of the '90 championship, Schumacher took Hill out in the last round of the '94 championship, and Vettel...only took off Webber's front wing in the 7th round of a 20-round season, and Webber would still go on to finish 3rd in that race. :rolleyes:

Gillespy · 23-04-2014 1:36pm

I'm unlikely to ever get more than an autograph from any of them never mind befriend them so their personalities have no real bearing on how I view them. I enjoy Vettel's wit and I don't see Hamilton as being disingenuous, don't care he has diamond studs and an American accent. I also don't see the need to cut down one to build up another. Praise one for having those killer racer instincts and use them against the other one.

ScumLord · 23-04-2014 2:13pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

I don't think I'd be able to spend 5 minutes with Hamilton without talking the mickey out of his gangsta attitude.

Gangsta? He's about the furthest thing I can think of from gangsta.

Tea 1000 · 23-04-2014 2:14pm

Gillespy wrote: »

I'm unlikely to ever get more than an autograph from any of them never mind befriend them so their personalities have no real bearing on how I view them. I enjoy Vettel's wit and I don't see Hamilton as being disingenuous, don't care he has diamond studs and an American accent. I also don't see the need to cut down one to build up another. Praise one for having those killer racer instincts and use them against the other one.

I hear ya. But it's annoying when a talent is hampered from time to time because of the persons personality. Schumacher's talent was never really hampered because of his need to win, taking someone out is different. But Lewis had some genuinely crap weekends because his mood was off and then you read in the papers that it's off between himself and the woman. Feck that lark. I don't even know who most of the drivers are going out with.
In football it's Ronaldo. One of the most talented players in the world, but how he'll play on a given day depends on his mood.

MS.ing · 23-04-2014 4:06pm

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I hear ya. But it's annoying when a talent is hampered from time to time because of the persons personality. Schumacher's talent was never really hampered because of his need to win, taking someone out is different. But Lewis had some genuinely crap weekends because his mood was off and then you read in the papers that it's off between himself and the woman. Feck that lark. I don't even know who most of the drivers are going out with.
In football it's Ronaldo. One of the most talented players in the world, but how he'll play on a given day depends on his mood.

theyre humans not robots. what an odd comment. (well guys like schumacher are closer to blade runner style androids though!)

ScumLord · 23-04-2014 4:40pm

Tea 1000 wrote: »

But Lewis had some genuinely crap weekends because his mood was off and then you read in the papers that it's off between himself and the woman. Feck that lark. I don't even know who most of the drivers are going out with.

To be fair to the lad he did go from little known driver to world famous celebrity pretty quickly, he probably wasn't prepared for the lifestyle his girlfriend dragged him into either, being hounded by paparazzi and people making all sorts of unfounded guesses about your life just to have something to write in a paper. He got it worse than most F1 drivers would have.

He seems to be much more comfortable in his skin these days, it's just a job at the end of the day and it seems they need to come to terms with the job and all it entails.

SamAK · 23-04-2014 5:03pm

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I hear ya. But it's annoying when a talent is hampered from time to time because of the persons personality. Schumacher's talent was never really hampered because of his need to win, taking someone out is different. But Lewis had some genuinely crap weekends because his mood was off and then you read in the papers....

Papers...pinch of salt....etc etc!

Myrddin · 23-04-2014 6:06pm

Has Lewis' missus been at any races this season? I don't think I've seen heer (the camera usually pick her up a few times). He's done alright so far this season regardless

Gillespy · 23-04-2014 7:29pm

I think she was at the in season test a few weeks ago. Who is the one with Kimi? could explain his poor season so far.:p

Brian_Zeluz · 23-04-2014 8:37pm

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Yes, because of course Vettel smacking into Webber was intentional

I completely agree. Though I'm not sure why you felt the need to discuss the context of those crashes. I was simply making the point that he will 'cross the line' just like Senna and Schumacher did.

ZiabR · 23-04-2014 8:55pm

Tea 1000 wrote: »

It's the diamond earrings that get my goat! I'd have to rip them out!
Maybe he's a nicer guy than I think though.

He only got those in when dating Nicole. I have to think she had something to do with them, but maybe I am being unfair.

ZiabR · 23-04-2014 8:57pm

Brian_Zeluz wrote: »

I completely agree. Though I'm not sure why you felt the need to discuss the context of those crashes. I was simply making the point that he will 'cross the line' just like Senna and Schumacher did.

If he does he will take a step closer to being banned for a race and if he keeps at it he may face further sanctions so to speak. There is no room for deliberately taking a teammate or competitor out in F1 anymore. Plus as a driver it would go down that you essentially cheated your way to the crown by taking you rivals out. This points on the licence thing may be good after all.

ZiabR · 23-04-2014 8:59pm

Myrddin wrote: »

Has Lewis' missus been at any races this season? I don't think I've seen heer (the camera usually pick her up a few times). He's done alright so far this season regardless

Nicole or someone new, not that I really give a ****. One of the reasons I kinda like how Vettel handles his private life... it is private. He had a child this year and we never see his missus.

Myrddin · 24-04-2014 8:12am

logik wrote: »

Nicole or someone new, not that I really give a ****. One of the reasons I kinda like how Vettel handles his private life... it is private. He had a child this year and we never see his missus.

I wouldn't give a flying hoot myself, I was simply pointing out that the notion he only does well is when she's at the track is wrong. Three wins in a row & no Nicole at any of them. I don't see why Hamilton should be lambasted for exposing us to his private life by having his girlfriend there with him anyway, Button & Alonso bring their girlfriends along too & no big deal is made about it. The fact is, we see someone for a few hours every second or third weekend on the tv, in a highly competitive environment, & we think we know them, we don't, at all.

Joeseph Balls · 24-04-2014 9:02am

Myrddin wrote: »

I wouldn't give a flying hoot myself, I was simply pointing out that the notion he only does well is when she's at the track is wrong. Three wins in a row & no Nicole at any of them. I don't see why Hamilton should be lambasted for exposing us to his private life by having his girlfriend there with him anyway, Button & Alonso bring their girlfriends along too & no big deal is made about it. The fact is, we see someone for a few hours every second or third weekend on the tv, in a highly competitive environment, & we think we know them, we don't, at all.

I think they are finished IIRC.
I agree with you though, as he went through a good run of races the first time they split. BBC commentaters mentioned it at the time. Was '12 I think.

Tea 1000 · 24-04-2014 12:23pm

Myrddin wrote: »

I wouldn't give a flying hoot myself, I was simply pointing out that the notion he only does well is when she's at the track is wrong. Three wins in a row & no Nicole at any of them. I don't see why Hamilton should be lambasted for exposing us to his private life by having his girlfriend there with him anyway, Button & Alonso bring their girlfriends along too & no big deal is made about it. The fact is, we see someone for a few hours every second or third weekend on the tv, in a highly competitive environment, & we think we know them, we don't, at all.

I don't give a crap whether she's there or not. My point was that you hear during the week that Nicole and Lewis have split up (again) and you can be guaranteed that he's going to have a crap weekend. You hear they were seen all lovey-dovey again and all back together, and low and behold he's having a great weekend.

Myrddin · 24-04-2014 12:35pm

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I don't give a crap whether she's there or not. My point was that you hear during the week that Nicole and Lewis have split up (again) and you can be guaranteed that he's going to have a crap weekend. You hear they were seen all lovey-dovey again and all back together, and low and behold he's having a great weekend.

That may have been true a year or two ago, but I don't think it rings true today at all. I couldn't give a toss about his love life, so I don't follow it, I just prefer to watch him do his thing. He's been on fire since the season began, & long may it last

Tea 1000 · 24-04-2014 12:44pm

Myrddin wrote: »

That may have been true a year or two ago, but I don't think it rings true today at all. I couldn't give a toss about his love life, so I don't follow it, I just prefer to watch him do his thing. He's been on fire since the season began, & long may it last

I don't follow it either, nor do I follow the Premiership but I still heard that Moys is gone!

Myrddin · 24-04-2014 12:47pm

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I don't follow it either, nor do I follow the Premiership but I still heard that Moys is gone!

Go way outta that, you're subbed to all the 'celeb goss' sites, admit it :P

Gillespy · 24-04-2014 12:50pm

More F1 drivers should be dating supermodels, pop stars and actresses and bringing them to races so the camera can pan to them 10 times per lap imo.

H3llR4iser · 24-04-2014 12:59pm

Brian_Zeluz wrote: »

...
"How exactly?" The whole multi21 ordeal is probably the best example. If from the start Vettel came out and said he ignored the orders to win and would do it again (something I feel Schumacher or Senna would have done) then I could respect that but instead he said he was sorry and wished he hadn't then turned around later and said the opposite. It's the hypocrisy I can't take.

But then you are not the typical Vettel-hater, as your reasoning has logics behind. Unfortunately, the whole media aspect of F1 is today a sad joke - too many PR "experts" spoon feeding drivers what to say, and sometimes you have one of them speaking his mind, then being forced to backtrack. It didn't only happen to Vettel in recent times, mind you. Everything for the sponsors...not the same thing, but Hamilton's and Rosberg's interviews on the podium in Malaysia were...cringeworthy.

Brian_Zeluz wrote: »

For me though if you want a really simple answer it's that I just do not like him despite his at times funny demeanour and his clearly evident skill. I understand that plenty of other fans don't share my opinion of him and I'm more than willing to agree to disagree with them.

The typical "Vettel hater" however denies his skill and belittles the wins and world titles as "meaningless as they were achieved with a superior car" - that's where the absurdity lies.

Gillespy wrote: »

That's fine, it's the booing and undermining his achievements I haven't time for. Like giving all the credit the Newey, sure he is a genius but every winning car has a team of them involved as well as a huge budget.

Exactly. It was most surprising at the British Grand Prix last year; Anywhere else, I can understand it's Ferrari fans throwing the toys out of the pram, but usually the British attendance at the race are the most sporting you'll find.

Gillespy wrote: »

Alonso does carry those champion traits you speak of better than Vettel, they suit him better or something. Plus his mode of celebrating isn't so divisive.:pac:

Not really...Alonso is becoming kind of a mystery. It was proven again and again that, somehow, he seems to hamper the harmony in any team he joins (the ones not managed by Briatore, anyway). He has often demonstrated an "I win, my merit; We lose, my team's fault" attitude, which doesn't really help. The Italian media, while putting him on a pedestal, still somewhat blame him for the "f@:~ you, I'm going on holiday" thing he pulled during last year's winter testing.

T-Maxx · 24-04-2014 1:55pm

I guess I'm one of the typical non-typical Vettel haters then.

MS.ing · 24-04-2014 2:01pm

who gives a flying fook about F1 drivers 'girlfriends' seriously, wtaf! its a chinese grand prix thread, theres off topic and then theres celeb gossiping ffs! pansy assed bastards!

you want to look at nice women, leave the house, alternatively theres the net and shedloads of porn to consume!

SamAK · 24-04-2014 2:11pm

MS.ing wrote: »

who gives a flying fook about F1 drivers 'girlfriends' seriously, wtaf!

Tell that to the FOM feed and their camera zooming in on WAGS in the backs of garages!

Not as bad as Moto GP though :pac:

Going Strong · 24-04-2014 2:44pm

SamAK wrote: »

Tell that to the FOM feed and their camera zooming in on WAGS in the backs of garages!

Not as bad as Moto GP though :pac:

One of the most heartening things ever that I saw at an F1 race. Spa 2000, I was in the stand on the run down to Eau Rouge. We could see into the back of the paddock from where we were. The Arrows sponsors, Lost Boys, had a team of glamour models parading about all weekend waving at the crowds to cheers and cat calls. The moment the first car went by, all interest in them was lost so they just gave up and went away.

Tea 1000 · 24-04-2014 3:13pm

Going Strong wrote: »

One of the most heartening things ever that I saw at an F1 race. Spa 2000, I was in the stand on the run down to Eau Rouge. We could see into the back of the paddock from where we were. The Arrows sponsors, Lost Boys, had a team of glamour models parading about all weekend waving at the crowds to cheers and cat calls. The moment the first car went by, all interest in them was lost so they just gave up and went away.

That was the V10 era though. I bet these days all interest would be back with them after the first 2 laps when either one of the Mercedes have established the position for the win! V6 turbo's are dull to watch!

Tea 1000 · 24-04-2014 3:16pm

Myrddin wrote: »

Go way outta that, you're subbed to all the 'celeb goss' sites, admit it :P

It's true...

I only saw about that Man Utd fella when searching for who Taylor Swift is dating today...

Max_Charger · 24-04-2014 3:59pm

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Hamilton on the other hand thinks that for him to do the same is to walk over to some engineers and ask them why haven't they made his car better yet, and when do they think they'll have better parts? He also would like no doubt to take some of the Mercedes credit, but in my opinion he's just a quick driver, he wouldn't be any great asset in a team from a car development point of view.

Of all the horsesh1te posted here in the last page, I laughed the loudest at this bit. Where you standing next to him when Lewis said all this? When has he ever said he'd take the Mercedes credit when all he ever talks about is the team, thanking the team, "we have a great team", the team, the team, the team. And how in the name of all that's holy does one become "just a quick driver" without giving driving input about the development of a car to the engineers?

ZiabR · 24-04-2014 4:29pm

Max_Charger wrote: »

Of all the horsesh1te posted here in the last page, I laughed the loudest at this bit. Where you standing next to him when Lewis said all this? When has he ever said he'd take the Mercedes credit when all he ever talks about is the team, thanking the team, "we have a great team", the team, the team, the team. And how in the name of all that's holy does one become "just a quick driver" without giving driving input about the development of a car to the engineers?

Have to agree here, to say that Hamilton has not helped develop the car is laughable. He has had a big impact since joining Merc. Merc have listened to their drivers and along with hiring the right people, it seems to be working.

Tea 1000 · 24-04-2014 4:49pm

Max_Charger wrote: »

Of all the horsesh1te posted here in the last page, I laughed the loudest at this bit. Where you standing next to him when Lewis said all this? When has he ever said he'd take the Mercedes credit when all he ever talks about is the team, thanking the team, "we have a great team", the team, the team, the team. And how in the name of all that's holy does one become "just a quick driver" without giving driving input about the development of a car to the engineers?

I watched a documentary on him. That's exactly what he was doing.

Max_Charger · 24-04-2014 4:58pm

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I watched a documentary on him. That's exactly what he was doing.

Which one?

Tea 1000 · 24-04-2014 5:04pm

Max_Charger wrote: »

Which one?

It was when he was with McLaren. I'm not convinced he's changed though. But what do I know?!

I've seen short segments on other drivers and some of them seem genuinely interested and chatty with engineers, but the one I saw on Hamilton made it seem like he didn't know how to be chatty, and seemed to think that the way to get the best from them is to keep pressure on them, but he came across as a new boss in a small company with no people managment skills.

Mike Litoris · 24-04-2014 5:53pm

Max_Charger wrote: »

Which one?

The one where every other driver ever was deadly and Hamo was a real jerk all the time. Have you not seen it yet?

SamAK · 24-04-2014 9:54pm

Tea 1000 wrote: »

That was the V10 era though. I bet these days all interest would be back with them after the first 2 laps when either one of the Mercedes have established the position for the win! V6 turbo's are dull to watch!

Sigh.....any excuse to bash 2014...of course.

Top Dog · 24-04-2014 10:02pm

Tea 1000 wrote: »

That was the V10 era though. I bet these days all interest would be back with them after the first 2 laps when either one of the Mercedes have established the position for the win! V6 turbo's are dull to watch!

Because the dominance by Vettel in a V8 was so much more exciting?

Seriously - dominance has nothing to do with the engine configuration. :rolleyes:

Tea 1000 · 25-04-2014 9:16am

SamAK wrote: »

Sigh.....any excuse to bash 2014...of course.

Top Dog wrote: »

Because the dominance by Vettel in a V8 was so much more exciting?

Seriously - dominance has nothing to do with the engine configuration. :rolleyes:

Who said anything about dominance or the racing in 2014? I like the mix-up in fortunes this year. It's the crappy engine sound I hate. Monaco last year might be my last GP for a long time as I have no desire to pay my hard earned to go and hear cars that are significantly quieter than the support races.

SamAK · 25-04-2014 3:03pm

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I bet these days all interest would be back with them after the first 2 laps when either one of the Mercedes have established the position for the win!

If that doesn't refer to 2014 dominance then what does it refer to!?

Tea 1000 · 28-04-2014 10:44am

SamAK wrote: »

If that doesn't refer to 2014 dominance then what does it refer to!?

Ah, that was just a reference to the fact that most of the race has settled down in the first two laps anyway, and this year the Merc's have the lead. That doesn't bother me in the least, I like the fact that Red Bull are no longer the dominant force. I like watching F1 this year still on TV, probably more than last year, but I'm far, far less inclined to bother going to a race now with those engines. The V8's were disappointing compared to the V10's, but these are dismal sounding.

Zcott · 28-04-2014 10:50am

Tea 1000 wrote: »

The V8's were disappointing compared to the V10's, but these are dismal sounding.

And the V10s weren't even half as good as the old V12s Ferrari used to bring along. I suspect noisegate will blow over soon enough when people realize the racing is good.

Cookie_Monster · 28-04-2014 10:55am

Zcott wrote: »

And the V10s weren't even half as good as the old V12s Ferrari used to bring along. I suspect noisegate will blow over soon enough when people realize the racing is good.

and the old v12s were nothing like the previous turbos :pac:
full circle.

Tea 1000 · 28-04-2014 11:23am

Zcott wrote: »

And the V10s weren't even half as good as the old V12s Ferrari used to bring along. I suspect noisegate will blow over soon enough when people realize the racing is good.

I'm not lucky enough to have heard the V12's, but I have seen comments by folk in the know who said the V10's sounded better.
As I said though, I enjoy the racing, but going to a GP where you don't get the same level of detailed coverage that you do when at home means that it needs to get substituted by something. That something was the speed and sounds of F1. Now there's only the speed. The sounds were always more impressive, as speed is sometimes a bit hidden even when you're at a GP. So take those away and I can't help but think that folk may not be as willing to fork out well over €300 for a weekend enjoyment.
As far as TV is concerned though, I think not much will change. If anything it'll be better, so long as we don't see a 5 or 6 year Merc dominance. I think 3 years is enough for any one team to dominate before people start to get really bored.

Formula 1 2014: Round 4 - Chinese Grand Prix

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