Formula 1 2014: Round 4 - Chinese Grand Prix

Gillespy · 22-04-2014 6:02pm

That's fine, it's the booing and undermining his achievements I haven't time for. Like giving all the credit the Newey, sure he is a genius but every winning car has a team of them involved as well as a huge budget.

Alonso does carry those champion traits you speak of better than Vettel, they suit him better or something. Plus his mode of celebrating isn't so divisive.:pac:

SamAK · 22-04-2014 6:03pm

Brian_Zeluz wrote: »

For me though if you want a really simple answer it's that I just do not like him despite his at times funny demeanour and his clearly evident skill. I understand that plenty of other fans don't share my opinion of him and I'm more than willing to agree to disagree with them.

While I appreciate Vettel's skill and the fact that he's a four time world champion, one thing that has become evident recently is his apparent tendency to lose his cool a little bit when things don't go perfectly...

He just seems to get frustrated when problems arise or when his teammate is faster than him ("tough luck")

It's a small criticism, granted...but from my perspective, he sometimes comes across as being capable of throwing hissy fits :rolleyes:

Gillespy · 22-04-2014 6:11pm

They all do that. Kimi was on the radio giving out about no power and Nico Rosberg threw a bit of a tantrum about giving his engineer info when he had no telemetry in the last race. One of the coolest guys on the radio is Ricciardo. Jensen is nearly always civil too.

smellslikeshoes · 22-04-2014 6:25pm

Vettel won't be liked till he has a few years in a poor car.
Schumacher is probably the best person to compare him to. Schumacher was the ruthless villain but from 96-99 you couldn't not admire some of his downright herculean drives in poor cars. It was obvious even before he started winning championships for Ferrari he was the best driver of his generation. Vettel has to have a few years dragging poor cars to good results before he gets the recognition that he deserves.

Zcott · 22-04-2014 6:29pm

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Vettel won't be liked till he has a few years in a poor car.
Schumacher is probably the best person to compare him to. Schumacher was the ruthless villain but from 96-99 you couldn't not admire some of his downright herculean drives in poor cars. It was obvious even before he started winning championships for Ferrari he was the best driver of his generation. Vettel has to have a few years dragging poor cars to good results before he gets the recognition that he deserves.

To take this even further, I'd say a driver has to leave the comfort zone of a winning team and take another team to victory, in the same way that Schumacher left Benetton to take Ferrari to victory, and Hamilton left McLaren to join Mercedes. I'd say that has given Lewis a lot of credibility that he wouldn't have had if he stayed with McLaren all his career.

Give it a few years, let's see Vettel jump ship to somewhere and try to win.

ScumLord · 22-04-2014 8:00pm

SamAK wrote: »

He just seems to get frustrated when problems arise or when his teammate is faster than him ("tough luck")

That's not surprising really. When you're in the middle of a race with adrenaline pumping you're going to have a short fuse, with the world racing by you every split second is going to feel like a minute.

Frank Bullitt · 22-04-2014 8:44pm

Not a happy boy the last few races...

Gillespy · 22-04-2014 9:58pm

This idiot isn't helping matters for him.:pac:

SamAK · 22-04-2014 10:03pm

Gillespy wrote: »

This idiot isn't helping matters for him.

Idiot? He's doing a solid job outperforming Seb so far.

Mike Litoris · 22-04-2014 10:07pm

SamAK wrote: »

Idiot? He's doing a solid job outperforming Seb so far.

...so close to sticking up that McBain meme, but I could be wrong.

Gillespy · 22-04-2014 10:39pm

SamAK wrote: »

Idiot? He's doing a solid job outperforming Seb so far.

You know how I meant it. It's a term of endearment in this context.

SamAK · 22-04-2014 10:48pm

Gillespy wrote: »

You know how I meant it. It's a term of endearment in this context.

Sorry, I mistook you for another Vettel fan-boy!

MS.ing · 23-04-2014 7:09am

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Can be said of many multiple world champions - afterall, even Schumacher won most of his championships because he had "by far and away the best car"; And with no opponents whatsoever as his own team mate was relegated to be 2nd by contract. Yet, Vettel is the subject of an hatred I've never seen before. For reasons unknown, he's considered almost a "villain" - a thing I'm certain will cease the moment he puts his behind in the most popular car of the grid - a Ferrari.

As for the second point, "if everyone had the same car", it's quite simply the stupidest thing that can be said. If "everyone had the same car", there's no guarantee whatsoever that the guys at the front would be who we expect them to be; I'm impressed with the lack of understanding on the part of a lot of people watching F1. If the 2014 championship is proving anything, is that the characteristics of the car and how well it suits a driver are possibly the most important factor at play - depending on how the hypotetical "same car for everybody" behaves, Kobayashi or Bianchi might become the guys at the top.

thats why wet races are a certain leveller of cars, will always remember vettel winning (well 4th in a Torro Rosso was as good then) in china years ago pre RB. A star was born that day. Also remember sutil use to do really well in wet practice ( monaco comes to mind) in crap back of the grid cars.

people forget unlike hamilton he didnt just walk into a WC winning car at McLaren, he did it the hard way through TR with that awesomme 4th in china in the rain, and a win at Monza. Whereas golden boy went straight in at the top at McLaren.

Gillespy · 23-04-2014 8:44am

And he was this close to being a rookie world champ. Merit to starting in the lower teams but to do what Hamilton done is more impressive especially considering his teammate and the stuff going on there that season. Not too shabby in the wet either is our Lewis.:)

Slutmonkey57b · 23-04-2014 9:12am

On the subject of Vettel, it's interesting to see that overall he is more disliked than Hamilton. When you think about it, that makes no sense.

Hamilton was given the most gilded entry into F1 ever, bankrolled and trained by McLaren from before his teenage years, promoted directly into a championship-winning car on his entry into F1, being given favourable treatment over a double world champion, and having his every whim indulged since. Behaving like an arrogant tosser (e.g. spa 2012), poncing around like a wannabe gangsta despite being a middle class suburban boy, concentrating more on bling and celebrity lifestyle than his driving for many years, often seemingly as dumb as a bag of rocks, can't see anything in F1 beyond Senna... yet the crowd loves him.

Vettel by contrast is funny, intelligent, interested in the world, knows and loves the sport like the back of his hand, doesn't parade himself in celebrity lifestyle supplements, sticks by his family and treats them with respect, and on the track he's brilliant, driven and very tough without crossing the line like Senna or Schumacher did.

Yes the finger is annoying. Yes Marko manages to make him look bad. Yes the feud with Webber didn't go well (but people gloss over Webber's behaviour). But if I had a choice between spending an hour with Vettel the Monty Python fan who can do impressions of brummies, or vainglorious Ali G clone Hamilton, I know which I'd choose....

Zcott · 23-04-2014 9:46am

One word: German.

Tea 1000 · 23-04-2014 9:52am

Zcott wrote: »

To take this even further, I'd say a driver has to leave the comfort zone of a winning team and take another team to victory, in the same way that Schumacher left Benetton to take Ferrari to victory, and Hamilton left McLaren to join Mercedes. I'd say that has given Lewis a lot of credibility that he wouldn't have had if he stayed with McLaren all his career.

Give it a few years, let's see Vettel jump ship to somewhere and try to win.

Schumacher is respected not because he left one team for another, but because he brought a team of excellent engineers and Brawn with him and built (together with the team obviously!) a dominant car over the space of 3 years.
Hamilton on the other hand thinks that for him to do the same is to walk over to some engineers and ask them why haven't they made his car better yet, and when do they think they'll have better parts? He also would like no doubt to take some of the Mercedes credit, but in my opinion he's just a quick driver, he wouldn't be any great asset in a team from a car development point of view. Brawn never went more than 3 years without a car becoming dominant, and that fact is still shown to be true even if Mercedes kicked him out before the fruits of his sucess were to be shown. This years car is Brawns, there can be no denying that.
I think it would help Vettel if he jumped ship to another team from some fans point of view, but in reality that doesn't always mean much. Hamilton may well win this years championship not because he's such a great driver that he can win with any team, but because he made the good decision to go to a team that can now provide him with the fastest (by far) car on the grid. He threw hissy fits galore when Button became better bedded in with McLaren than he was, but no criticism seems to get thrown his way - rather "isn't he mighty for having the balls to leave such a great team?".

Myrddin · 23-04-2014 10:06am

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Hamilton on the other hand thinks that for him to do the same is to walk over to some engineers and ask them why haven't they made his car better yet

I can't say I'd agree with that. Hamilton had his lows (2011/12 especially), but for the last two seasons I think he's left all that celeb nonsense behind him. No entourage anymore goes with him to the tracks, no dogs, no distractions. He turns up with his personal trainer, and apparently, that's it. I always find him immensely grateful to his team, his mechanics, the fans, & his family. The first thing Hamilton does on a podium interview is acknowledge the fans at the track. As I said, he had his low points, don't we all sure? But he seems to be in a much better place.

I don't pay much credence to him being bankrolled & put into a winning car from day one either. The fact is he missed out on becoming a rookie world champion by 1 point, & became a world champion in his second year. He was clearly good enough anyway.

Joeseph Balls · 23-04-2014 10:08am

Yea, well, my daddy is stronger than you're daddy.
The man crushes in here.....

Tea 1000 · 23-04-2014 11:25am

Myrddin wrote: »

I can't say I'd agree with that. Hamilton had his lows (2011/12 especially), but for the last two seasons I think he's left all that celeb nonsense behind him. No entourage anymore goes with him to the tracks, no dogs, no distractions. He turns up with his personal trainer, and apparently, that's it. I always find him immensely grateful to his team, his mechanics, the fans, & his family. The first thing Hamilton does on a podium interview is acknowledge the fans at the track. As I said, he had his low points, don't we all sure? But he seems to be in a much better place.

I don't pay much credence to him being bankrolled & put into a winning car from day one either. The fact is he missed out on becoming a rookie world champion by 1 point, & became a world champion in his second year. He was clearly good enough anyway.

There's no doubt he's a worthy world champion, he's good enough. I think he deserved it the first year and didn't the second, but the way it worked out was the opposite, so net result is the same.
I do disagree with you from a personality point of view though. His driving does seem to get better when he's with his pussycat doll and worse when he isn't. And his praise of the team and the fans just reeks of "teach the parrot what to say" after his hissy-fits from a few years ago when the McLaren was a dog. I do agree he has come on in leaps and bounds from the spoilt child, but it's just more trained and rehearsed nonsense now. As someone above said if I had a choice of spending an hour with an F1 driver, he wouldn't be on the list.
If I had a choice of magically getting 10% of an F1 drivers skill though, he would be on that list.

Myrddin · 23-04-2014 11:30am

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I do agree he has come on in leaps and bounds from the spoilt child, but it's just more trained and rehearsed nonsense now.

I think because Hamilton wears his heart on his sleeve, he can never really hide his true feelings...so I wouldn't believe his gratitude & affection for the team is rehearsed in any way. If anything, when he doesn't deliver he beats himself up too much for letting the team down. To me, he's genuine.

Brian_Zeluz · 23-04-2014 11:37am

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

On the subject of Vettel, it's interesting to see that overall he is more disliked than Hamilton. When you think about it, that makes no sense.

I agree with you there, almost every F1 fan I know dislikes both of them.

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Vettel by contrast is funny, intelligent, interested in the world, knows and loves the sport like the back of his hand, doesn't parade himself in celebrity lifestyle supplements, sticks by his family and treats them with respect, and on the track he's brilliant, driven and very tough without crossing the line like Senna or Schumacher did.

Senna crashing into Prost

Schumacher crashing into Hill

Vettel crashing into Webber

Tea 1000 · 23-04-2014 11:38am

Myrddin wrote: »

I think because Hamilton wears his heart on his sleeve, he can never really hide his true feelings...so I wouldn't believe his gratitude & affection for the team is rehearsed in any way. If anything, when he doesn't deliver he beats himself up too much for letting the team down. To me, he's genuine.

I suppose that's the difference between our opinions. I don't buy the "heart on sleeve" crap from him at all. Massa does on the other hand. He's a properly genuine guy.

Myrddin · 23-04-2014 11:41am

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I suppose that's the difference between our opinions. I don't buy the "heart on sleeve" crap from him at all. Massa does on the other hand. He's a properly genuine guy.

Ah come on, for better, and mostly for the worse, he's given interviews clearly showing his frustrations. He doesn't hide his emotions, certainly not well.

Tea 1000 · 23-04-2014 11:44am

Myrddin wrote: »

Ah come on, for better, and mostly for the worse, he's given interviews clearly showing his frustrations. He doesn't hide his emotions, certainly not well.

To me it's like watching a clip of one of those silly Made in Kim Kardashian's Chelsea or some such bolox. Fake half-assed try to be something he's not in front of camera and the real him is all too obvious underneath his thin disguise.

Slutmonkey57b · 23-04-2014 11:54am

See, perception is everything. 2 different people can see the same thing in different ways.

I don't think I'd be able to spend 5 minutes with Hamilton without talking the mickey out of his gangsta attitude.

Yo. Sup my homie.

Tea 1000 · 23-04-2014 12:18pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

See, perception is everything. 2 different people can see the same thing in different ways.

I don't think I'd be able to spend 5 minutes with Hamilton without talking the mickey out of his gangsta attitude.

Yo. Sup my homie.

It's the diamond earrings that get my goat! I'd have to rip them out!
Maybe he's a nicer guy than I think though.

the culture of deference · 23-04-2014 1:06pm

MS.ing wrote: »

people forget unlike hamilton he didnt just walk into a WC winning car at McLaren, he did it the hard way through TR with that awesomme 4th in china in the rain, and a win at Monza. Whereas golden boy went straight in at the top at McLaren.

Lewis had proven himself in other formula's.
9 podiums in his 1st 9 races with FA as your team mate

he should have been champion in 2007, but they let kimi steal it. I always felt that ron dennis was told by bernie there is no way lewis is allowed to win the champ in his rookie year

PopePalpatine · 23-04-2014 1:34pm

Brian_Zeluz wrote: »

Senna crashing into Prost
[IMG.]https://straightspeed.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/suzuka901.jpg[/IMG]

Schumacher crashing into Hill
[IMG.]http://i.gyazo.com/d976f883fd10e9ff13e6abe28d8b5f6c.png[/IMG]

Vettel crashing into Webber
[IMG.]http://i50.tinypic.com/a1tu83.gif[/IMG]

*facepalm*

Yes, because of course Vettel smacking into Webber was intentional. Senna took Prost out in the penultimate round of the '90 championship, Schumacher took Hill out in the last round of the '94 championship, and Vettel...only took off Webber's front wing in the 7th round of a 20-round season, and Webber would still go on to finish 3rd in that race. :rolleyes:

Gillespy · 23-04-2014 1:36pm

I'm unlikely to ever get more than an autograph from any of them never mind befriend them so their personalities have no real bearing on how I view them. I enjoy Vettel's wit and I don't see Hamilton as being disingenuous, don't care he has diamond studs and an American accent. I also don't see the need to cut down one to build up another. Praise one for having those killer racer instincts and use them against the other one.

Formula 1 2014: Round 4 - Chinese Grand Prix

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