Golf Memberships

But to support GreeBo .
Golf is not a free market . It is a free market without a GUI handicap.
If you want a handicap you will be regulated by the GUI. The GUI have a major control in market forces. As we are talking typically here about people who want a GUI handicap.

It is a different debate if they should use this power. But the GUI have to consider what is the best for the game.
I'm not sure what the best thing for Golf is.

But don't underestimate this power and regulation they have .The GAA for example - often exert their power in a God like way, the FAI too. What is good for the traditional golf structure and clubs versus what is good for golf participation . May not be compatible. But open to debate.

So a more complex grey area . Open to debate.
And no match point yet .

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

But to support GreeBo .
Golf is not a free market . It is a free market without a GUI handicap.
If you want a handicap you will be regulated by the GUI. The GUI have a major control in market forces. As we are talking typically here about people who want a GUI handicap.

It is a different debate if they should use this power. But the GUI have to consider what is the best for the game.
I'm not sure what the best thing for Golf is.

But don't underestimate this power and regulation they have .The GAA for example - often exert their power in a God like way, the FAI too. What is good for the traditional golf structure and clubs versus what is good for golf participation . May not be compatible. But open to debate.

So a more complex grey area . Open to debate.
And no match point yet .

The "free market" angle is a red herring. Any club is free to charge what it wants and good luck to them. However the value of distance membership is not just access to the club in question, but in the GUI membership that comes with it. As the issuer of that value, the GUI is entitled to stipulate how it be used.

It is not about "power". The GUI is made up of its member clubs and applies certain standards for admission. If those standards are not being met, or if membership is being abused, clubs (and their members) can be dis-affiliated.

First Up wrote: »

The "free market" angle is a red herring. Any club is free to charge what it wants and good luck to them. However the value of distance membership is not just access to the club in question, but in the GUI membership that comes with it. As the issuer of that value, the GUI is entitled to stipulate how it be used.

It is not about "power". The GUI is made up of its member clubs and applies certain standards for admission. If those standards are not being met, or if membership is being abused, clubs (and their members) can be dis-affiliated.

But is that on the cards. Has a club ever been dis- affiliated , that seems a big big step, from an organisation that seem more like the Titanic - sorry perhaps analogies should be dropped on this thread

Some people are alluding to stuff GUI might do or are planing to do ?
Does anybody know what they are thinking ?

But, the requirement to play 3 rounds, is minimal at best.
If you are getting 1/2 price or less golf all year, having a life of opens you love, It is not that big a deal to get 3 rounds in. Anyway - you'll find the majority have picked places within reasonable distance from their place of residence. Or can get 2 rounds in over 1 weekend with a frined.

Anyway - we will not sort this on Christmas Eve.

Catch ye again.

Interesting topic and views. It just seems golf is in a mixed up place at present. Even golfers don't know what is right or where the game should go.

Lets just rest easy in the knowledge that these people with membership in Slievenamon will now have to travel down to Slievenamon and play the course three times.

Now I personally wouldn't cross the road to look at Slievenamon nevermind traveling down there and spending a few hours playing each round.

I don't think all distance members will do this to be honest, so either they will jack in Slievenamon or else someone may come up with a plan to ensure people 'get' three scorecards returned somehow.

grip n rip wrote: »

Of course im entitled to play any open comp or scratch cup , im as much a gui member as any of you . I dontt see any clubs loosing their gui status anytime soon either.

Its a serious gripe you seem to have but its petty and if it bothers you all so much as i have said before then do sonething about it. Spouting high n mighty holier than thou drivel on an internet chat room will hardly stop or bother the thousands like me who are enjoying our golfing passtime.

Also glad you agree with the free market fact i brought up a while back.

Well something has started to be done about it and its just the start. But if you continue to meet the requirements for distance members to hold on to their GUI cards and handicaps, then no problem.
Watch this space.

grip n rip wrote: »

I cant see a body which governs a minority sport on a small island nation turning its back on a very sizeable number of its members and the revenue they bring into its coffers.

So why did they bring in the new rule?

grip n rip wrote: »

I cant see a body which governs a minority sport on a small island nation turning its back on a very sizeable number of its members and the revenue they bring into its coffers.

The "body" comprises the member clubs and they will decide what is in their interests. Clubs that abuse their GUI affiliation by flogging GUI cards are contributing nothing to anyone's coffers except their own. If clubs wanted to increase traffic by offering "open" rates to all-comers, they could decide to do so. They haven't, because they are able to add.
Open rates are privileged rates. Clubs are entitled to decide how that privilege is extended and where it shouldn't.

grip n rip wrote: »

I've never been turned down from any club i played on their open days , i guess they don't feel the same way as yourself

I don't think anyone is suggesting turning people away from open days, or that open days are a problem.

IMO the bottom line is that people are using the system to their advantage, despite it not really being what the "system" of distance memberships was originally intended for. It's not written down anywhere but, let's be honest, it was originally intended for members of country clubs to stay on as members at a reduced rate, when and if they moved "up to Dublin". It has, rightly or wrongly, evolved into a mechanism for people who can't afford memberships of certain clubs, to get a handicap on the cheap. No club in their right mind would turn down what is essentially free money, and the individuals, understandably enough, will do whats best for themselves.

The argument that I would have is that in the bigger scheme of things, it's bad for the game as a whole. The model only works because there's only a limited few clubs doing it. If every club started offering distance memberships or membership for a few hundred euro, the game would either die overnight or people would have to learn to love playing on 4 inch long fairways and greens stimping at 3. I suspect the gui have belatedly come to the party and the 3 card rule is a step in the right direction. Again, it's notional, but the idea of a club is that everyone buys into it's ethos and is pulling together. It's not like joining a gym where you pay a sub to use the facilities and that's it, although there are some clubs offering that I suppose.

Anyway, I'm out, it's Christmas Eve, have a great one y'all !

Russman wrote: »

I don't think anyone is suggesting turning people away from open days, or that open days are a problem.

IMO the bottom line is that people are using the system to their advantage, despite it not really being what the "system" of distance memberships was originally intended for. It's not written down anywhere but, let's be honest, it was originally intended for members of country clubs to stay on as members at a reduced rate, when and if they moved "up to Dublin". It has, rightly or wrongly, evolved into a mechanism for people who can't afford memberships of certain clubs, to get a handicap on the cheap. No club in their right mind would turn down what is essentially free money, and the individuals, understandably enough, will do whats best for themselves.

The argument that I would have is that in the bigger scheme of things, it's bad for the game as a whole. The model only works because there's only a limited few clubs doing it. If every club started offering distance memberships or membership for a few hundred euro, the game would either die overnight or people would have to learn to love playing on 4 inch long fairways and greens stimping at 3. I suspect the gui have belatedly come to the party and the 3 card rule is a step in the right direction. Again, it's notional, but the idea of a club is that everyone buys into it's ethos and is pulling together. It's not like joining a gym where you pay a sub to use the facilities and that's it, although there are some clubs offering that I suppose.

Anyway, I'm out, it's Christmas Eve, have a great one y'all !

Well said. You're the first person to make that argument without sounding like a snob

First Up wrote: »

I'm sorry you think that but I'm making no apology for standing up for integrity and fairness in how golf operates. If that sounds snobbish to you, well and good.

It amuses me how people can consider it snobbish when in reality the clubs least likely to be impacted are the supposedly snobbish clubs.

Showing concern about the future of the game resulting in being labelled a snob is a new one for me.

One of my mates is worried about next year and the 3 cards, he's thinking about finding a club closer to home.... But that's what you get when you join Ballybunion and are scamming it for 400 quid a year.

Clubs are allowing players to pay green fees through society outings without having an official handicap. The GUI does not seem to be able to control this even though they officially ban the practice. How likely is it that these new rules will be observed? I think they will be extremely difficult to police 👮.

First Up wrote: »

Officially ban what practice?

Societies are not supposed to allow membership to the society without GUI cards, but obviously it does not always happen. On the plus side a lot of people joined clubs after joining their work or local society first.