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Garda Allowances

12357

Comments

  • #202
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    irish_bob wrote: »
    the problem is the country can no longer afford the highest paid cops in the eu

    check out theese CSO figures , the average guard in irleand takes home 1200 euro per week
    http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=PSA01.asp&TableName=Public+Sector+Average+Weekly+Earnings&StatisticalProduct=DB_PS

    Bob, that is an average based on the earnings of 14 - 16,000 members. Some of whom are only starting their career on 27,000 up to the commissioner who earns over 200,000. If you want to see the weekly wage before paye, prsi, pension deductions, pension levys and the income levy then go here.
    irish_bob wrote: »
    +1 , the challenges facing guards in this country are no different to those facing police in london , paris or berlin , the only difference is the police in ireland earn at least 30% more than in those other countries

    You could say the same about the private sector. Hence a lot of multinational companies pulling out of the country and moving to cheaper workforces.
    irish_bob wrote: »
    i dont believe you , i do believe the CSO figures
    irish_bob wrote: »
    those on minum wage earn more than 300 per week , either he cant count or is baking pork pies

    As I said above, the CSO figure is an average. After all of my taxes, levies, health insurance (€52 p/w) and loan repayments I come out with €260. It's not a lot and if there are cuts in december it will be less. I have one years service and spent a year in training where I earned €190 p/w and had to pay for my travel and food both in templemore and at home in dublin where i was also paying my mortgage and household bills. The loans that I took out were mainly to cover me while in templemore because the money was crap. I would have put money aside but i had only moved into my house (bought at the height of the boom) and got four days notice to begin training or drop out after having waited two years to get in.


  • #203
    pipesofpeace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭pipesofpeace


    After all of my taxes, levies, health insurance (€52 p/w) and loan repayments I come out with €260.

    ok when i tell people my wages and how much i come out with i don't include my car loan repayments, my personal repayments. They are your own buisness!!!

    Your not helping your argument here deducting your life expenses and telling us you come out with 260p/w alot of people using your rational including me come out with alot less than 260p/w

    How much is your big cheque though with your allowances? No word on this?


  • #204
    Hooch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭Hooch


    Im only going to make one post on this. I wont be replying so take it as ye will.

    I am a member of An Garda Síochána and have been for quite some time. Im appointed to the Divisional Traffic Corps. Throughout my service I have been spat on, assaulted, hit with bottles, blood smeared on my face and been on the recieving end of a knife attack.

    I have cut ropes from peoples necks, seen some of the most horrific road traffic collisions imaginable, both single and double fatals and have seen people take their lives in front of me. I have called to so many houses at all times of the day and night and informed parents/wives/husbands that their loved on is dead I have now lost count.

    The above is common occurance for me. It is common occurance for all Gardaí, Paramedics and Fire service. Its our job......and yes we get paid for it. I would love to see some of the posters here spend one night working and a member of a frontline service. Until you do you wont cant understand what we put up with.

    I make a decent wage at present. I get my weekly payslip and my allowances.....but by god I work for it. And at the end of the day after my morgage is paid (I live in a small town) my heath care for myself and herself is paid and the levies/tax etc is taken out I dont have much left. Whether posters here believe members here or not I really dont care. At the end of the day I know NO person of Garda rank that makes over €1200 a week!! I only bloody wish.

    There are no holidays in nice guys world and xmas is going to be tight. I own my home and thats all I can afford. I dont have 25 houses and 31 appartments. I have one and its hard enought to pay for that!!

    Cutting my pay/allowances will make wonder why should I be working. Hell with the scum we deal with I wonder would I be better of on the dole.

    Seemingly the CSO says everyone on the dole have new cars every year....they must be correct.....they are never wrong:rolleyes:

    Frontline services get paid ok. But we deserve it. A Garda will never be rich. When I joined AGS in the boom times most of my friends from school became engineers/blocklayers etc and they made a hell of a lot more than I did. And they had no problem saying it.

    Civil servants are not the problem with the crisis at the moment. We didnt suddenly destroy the countrys bank balance......last time I checked the Banks/Bankers did. This whole Private vs Public "war" was developed by the Government to create a smoke screen so that they could back the banks. They have to now get the money from somewhere so now the evil civil servants caused the whole thing! Easy targets. If people really cant see the roose then ye are more foolish than I though.


  • #205
    sdanseo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,236 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    nice guy always wrote: »
    Im only going to make one post on this. I wont be replying so take it as ye will.

    I am a member of An Garda Síochána and have been for quite some time. Im appointed to the Divisional Traffic Corps. Throughout my service I have been spat on, assaulted, hit with bottles, blood smeared on my face and been on the recieving end of a knife attack.

    I have cut ropes from peoples necks, seen some of the most horrific road traffic collisions imaginable, both single and double fatals and have seen people take their lives in front of me. I have called to so many houses at all times of the day and night and informed parents/wives/husbands that their loved on is dead I have now lost count.

    The above is common occurance for me. It is common occurance for all Gardaí, Paramedics and Fire service. Its our job......and yes we get paid for it. I would love to see some of the posters here spend one night working and a member of a frontline service. Until you do you wont cant understand what we put up with.

    I make a decent wage at present. I get my weekly payslip and my allowances.....but by god I work for it. And at the end of the day after my morgage is paid (I live in a small town) my heath care for myself and herself is paid and the levies/tax etc is taken out I dont have much left. Whether posters here believe members here or not I really dont care. At the end of the day I know NO person of Garda rank that makes over €1200 a week!! I only bloody wish.

    There are no holidays in nice guys world and xmas is going to be tight. I own my home and thats all I can afford. I dont have 25 houses and 31 appartments. I have one and its hard enought to pay for that!!

    Cutting my pay/allowances will make wonder why should I be working. Hell with the scum we deal with I wonder would I be better of on the dole.

    Seemingly the CSO says everyone on the dole have new cars every year....they must be correct.....they are never wrong:rolleyes:

    Frontline services get paid ok. But we deserve it. A Garda will never be rich. When I joined AGS in the boom times most of my friends from school became engineers/blocklayers etc and they made a hell of a lot more than I did. And they had no problem saying it.

    Civil servants are not the problem with the crisis at the moment. We didnt suddenly destroy the countrys bank balance......last time I checked the Banks/Bankers did. This whole Private vs Public "war" was developed by the Government to create a smoke screen so that they could back the banks. They have to now get the money from somewhere so now the evil civil servants caused the whole thing! Easy targets. If people really cant see the roose then ye are more foolish than I though.

    That is possibly the best post in the history of all Garda bashing threads.


  • #206
    pipesofpeace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭pipesofpeace


    Good post, must be on clerical duty with allowance!!!!

    :> :>

    listen point taken suppose what gets people is the issue of transperency garda sayin they earn x amount a year basic pay is not a true reflection of their income all these rent allowances and premuim payments(57 at last count) sound like some kind of accounting trick to keep basic pay figures low

    My only point would be that no garda recruitment drive has ever been undersubscribed so i mean alot of people must be happy to get paid X whatever X may be


  • #207
    ste88m
    Registered Users Posts: 169 ✭✭ste88m


    irish_bob wrote: »
    i dont believe you , i do believe the CSO figures

    Well I believe him. CSO figures are an average for all members of all ranks of the gardaí, not to mention that these are probably average figures from 2007. Not 2009.

    We get 3 'small' cheques and one 'big' cheque per month. The small cheque is basically just your 40hours. Your "big" cheque, and I've put big in inverted commas there because it seems to be getting more and more like the small cheque.

    On average. I'd be on €400 for a small cheque and maybe €600, occassionally more, for the 'big cheque'. So basically I'm on roughly €1800 a month, NOT €1200 a week. And I can assure you that very, very few gardaí are on €1,200 p/w.


  • #208
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    pipesofpeace wrote: »
    How much is your big cheque though with your allowances? No word on this?

    Add about €200 including overtime. And I got that working at Croke Park and attending court which had dates decided by the courts service, not myself. I'd rather attend court while working so I can enjoy my days off away from work. And if you are lucky enough to work away for your station for 8 hours it is only worth €21. Not €200 as is in the first post on this thread.


  • #209
    TouchingVirus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭TouchingVirus


    pipesofpeace wrote: »
    My only point would be that no garda recruitment drive has ever been undersubscribed

    I don't recall any public sector job being undersubscribed. When I went for the Civil Service jobs there were over 10,000 applicants I beat to get offered a job in Revenue. There were not 10,000 jobs. The pay for a clerical officer is not great. Job Security is important too and that is what is very attractive about public jobs.


  • #210
    FGR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,455 ✭✭✭FGR


    Where's my free health insurance and 5 hours overtime for 10 mins in court? :D

    Last time I checked I was paying 18 a week for Garda Medical Aid and only getting 3 hours OT for 3 hours work in the other.


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  • #211
    pipesofpeace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭pipesofpeace


    If you were to read the whinging iv'e heard about getting up at 6am and workin Sundays and the horrible work and 260 euro p/w it makes me wonder why something so god awful and lowly paid would have a que a mile long to get into.

    Clerical officer is completely different - basic pay with no allowances and little to no chance of overtime

    Listen i appreciate the work that is done but we all need to have a look at ourselves and ask are we being paid to much. My job when benchmarked against other countries comes out somewhere in the middle but behind the likes of the UK, Germany, France.

    Benchmark our police officers against their European counterparts on we come out on top. Something not right their and it needs to be fixed seen as the country is going broke

    I'm sure a bobby workin in Londons East End with the real hardcore filth would be surprised to hear the wages of our boys


  • #212
    pipesofpeace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭pipesofpeace


    Before someone else comes on and says that your also putting your lives at risk as someone else did a few threads ago and deserve whatever you get if you were one of these guys you might have an arguement

    Its more dangerous workin on a farm

    and this survey is from the States with guns all over the place!!!

    The 10 most dangerous jobs

    Occupation Fatalities per 100,000

    Timber cutters 117.8
    Fishers 71.1
    Pilots and navigators 69.8
    Structural metal workers 58.2
    Drivers-sales workers 37.9
    Roofers 37
    Electrical power installers 32.5
    Farm occupations 28
    Construction laborers 27.7
    Truck drivers 25

    Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics; survey of occupations with minimum 30 fatalities and 45,000 workers in 2002


  • #213
    Phototoxin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭Phototoxin


    Fizman wrote: »
    You probably should have become a cop then.

    Not everyone can be a member of AGS

    Also Gardi take some crap while in court too.


  • #214
    TouchingVirus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭TouchingVirus


    pipesofpeace wrote: »
    Before someone else comes on and says that your also putting your lives at risk as someone else did a few threads ago and deserve whatever you get if you were one of these guys you might have an arguement

    Its more dangerous workin on a farm

    and this survey is from the States with guns all over the place!!!

    The 10 most dangerous jobs

    Occupation Fatalities per 100,000

    Timber cutters 117.8
    Fishers 71.1
    Pilots and navigators 69.8
    Structural metal workers 58.2
    Drivers-sales workers 37.9
    Roofers 37
    Electrical power installers 32.5
    Farm occupations 28
    Construction laborers 27.7
    Truck drivers 25

    Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics; survey of occupations with minimum 30 fatalities and 45,000 workers in 2002

    I would rather have any one of those jobs than be a member of the force. It's different danger, I'm not sure how to articulate it other than that.


  • #215
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    nice guy always wrote: »
    Im only going to make one post on this. I wont be replying so take it as ye will.

    I am a member of An Garda Síochána and have been for quite some time. Im appointed to the Divisional Traffic Corps. Throughout my service I have been spat on, assaulted, hit with bottles, blood smeared on my face and been on the recieving end of a knife attack.

    I have cut ropes from peoples necks, seen some of the most horrific road traffic collisions imaginable, both single and double fatals and have seen people take their lives in front of me. I have called to so many houses at all times of the day and night and informed parents/wives/husbands that their loved on is dead I have now lost count.

    The above is common occurance for me. It is common occurance for all Gardaí, Paramedics and Fire service. Its our job......and yes we get paid for it. I would love to see some of the posters here spend one night working and a member of a frontline service. Until you do you wont cant understand what we put up with.

    I make a decent wage at present. I get my weekly payslip and my allowances.....but by god I work for it. And at the end of the day after my morgage is paid (I live in a small town) my heath care for myself and herself is paid and the levies/tax etc is taken out I dont have much left. Whether posters here believe members here or not I really dont care. At the end of the day I know NO person of Garda rank that makes over €1200 a week!! I only bloody wish.

    There are no holidays in nice guys world and xmas is going to be tight. I own my home and thats all I can afford. I dont have 25 houses and 31 appartments. I have one and its hard enought to pay for that!!

    Cutting my pay/allowances will make wonder why should I be working. Hell with the scum we deal with I wonder would I be better of on the dole.

    Seemingly the CSO says everyone on the dole have new cars every year....they must be correct.....they are never wrong:rolleyes:

    Frontline services get paid ok. But we deserve it. A Garda will never be rich. When I joined AGS in the boom times most of my friends from school became engineers/blocklayers etc and they made a hell of a lot more than I did. And they had no problem saying it.

    Civil servants are not the problem with the crisis at the moment. We didnt suddenly destroy the countrys bank balance......last time I checked the Banks/Bankers did. This whole Private vs Public "war" was developed by the Government to create a smoke screen so that they could back the banks. They have to now get the money from somewhere so now the evil civil servants caused the whole thing! Easy targets. If people really cant see the roose then ye are more foolish than I though.

    I have a question for you.
    Seeing that your in the Traffic Division and own your own home, how will you react when you stop people at checkpoints with no car tax for longer than 2 months. Bearing in mind the level of job losses over the past 18 months and the levels of mortgages arrears. The numbers of people in mortgage arrears is growing.

    Will you be seizing their cars?


  • #216
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    pipesofpeace wrote: »
    Benchmark our police officers against their European counterparts on we come out on top. Something not right their and it needs to be fixed seen as the country is going broke

    Suggest the same for the private sector and see what happens :rolleyes:
    Phototoxin wrote: »
    Also Gardi take some crap while in court too.

    +1, the gardaí working day and night getting scum before the bench and prancing nonce barrister will get up and make you out to be a fool because you can't be sure if it was 12.33 or 12.34, while the scum walk back onto the streets. And then the same people have the nerve to claim the gardaí aren't up to scratch or doing their jobs.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Will you be seizing their cars?

    Eh the law is the law. Everyone has a hard luck story. Next they'll be saying sure I lost my job and I'm only dealing coke to feed my kids... let me off.


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  • #217
    ste88m
    Registered Users Posts: 169 ✭✭ste88m


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I have a question for you.
    Seeing that your in the Traffic Division and own your own home, how will you react when you stop people at checkpoints with no car tax for longer than 2 months. Bearing in mind the level of job losses over the past 18 months and the levels of mortgages arrears. The numbers of people in mortgage arrears is growing.

    Will you be seizing their cars?

    Has that got anything whatsoever to do with Garda allowances?

    No.

    Didn't think so.


  • #218
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ste88m wrote: »
    Has that got anything whatsoever to do with Garda allowances?

    No.

    Didn't think so.

    Yup it sure does. Join the dots a little. While running a budget deficit that is increasing like ours we need to either:

    A) make cuts
    or
    B) increase taxation.

    Gardai are tax collecting while stopping people for motor tax. Are they going to be selfish and take the "im allright jack" view if they dont take any cuts?


    If they lose the respect of the people they serve then they are going down a very bad and potentially dangerous road.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/garda-credit-union-owed-nearly-83641m-by-defaulters-1885313.html
    St Raphael's Garda Credit Union seems to have some of the biggest individual debt defaults
    ^^
    Many Gardai are married to private sector workers who have lost their jobs and in fairness understand the financial crisis in the country. The rate of defaults in the Garda Credit union is one of the highest. This isnt Gardai who are losing their jobs but their other halves.

    Which brings me back to the question - are ye going to look after yourselves and or be hypocritical


  • #219
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    prinz wrote: »
    Eh the law is the law. Everyone has a hard luck story. Next they'll be saying sure I lost my job and I'm only dealing coke to feed my kids... let me off.

    Yup yup exactly! And if the state decides to cut Garda wages or allowances then they shouldnt be protesting the law is the law.


  • #220
    pipesofpeace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭pipesofpeace


    Benchmarking across Europe
    Suggest the same for the private sector and see what happens

    You benchmark me and i'll benchmark you but when your wages get cut by 30% don't come crying to me


  • #221
    TouchingVirus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭TouchingVirus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yup yup exactly! And if the state decides to cut Garda wages or allowances then they shouldnt be protesting the law is the law.

    They can't protest anyways, not legally. You won't see Gardai on picket lines


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  • #222
    sdanseo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,236 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    I was interviewed by a Sergeant recently as part of trying to get into the Garda Reserve - that's a voulantary, unpaid organisation for those who don't know - and was quite happily told that he had been hospitalised 4 times, that I would be dealing with the absolute scum of the earth, but that we still had to treat them right. Be nice to them, friendly even in order to maintain good relations. Think how hards that's going to be with a great big hi-vis vest with GARDA written all over it and a junkie opposite. But that's what they do every day. I said none of this was going to be a barrier and he could only reply that that was the attitude they needed...and precious few seem to have it. Maybe it's the sense of adventure, I dunno.

    It cannot be compared to any sort of desk job in any way shape or form. The ONLY thing it can compare to is police officers in other countries. A police officer (lowest rank) in the NYPD for example earn $90,000+ after 5 years in the job

    http://www.nypdrecruit.com/NYPD_BenefitsOverview.aspx
    pipesofpeace wrote: »
    If you were to read the whinging iv'e heard about getting up at 6am and workin Sundays and the horrible work and 260 euro p/w it makes me wonder why something so god awful and lowly paid would have a que a mile long to get into.

    Clerical officer is completely different - basic pay with no allowances and little to no chance of overtime

    Listen i appreciate the work that is done but we all need to have a look at ourselves and ask are we being paid to much. My job when benchmarked against other countries comes out somewhere in the middle but behind the likes of the UK, Germany, France.

    Benchmark our police officers against their European counterparts on we come out on top. Something not right their and it needs to be fixed seen as the country is going broke

    I'm sure a bobby workin in Londons East End with the real hardcore filth would be surprised to hear the wages of our boys



    the met in the UK earn 36,087.58 EUR after 2 years plus £5,000 rent allowance for tranferring officers, £2,000 worth of free travel per year and literally a rake of other benefits.

    http://www.met.police.uk/careers/newconstable/pay_and_benefits.html

    Here a Garda earns €34,225 after 2 years. Whoever said the met would be surprised, damn right - surprised the wrong way though ;)

    www.gra.cc

    Now it is very true that when benchmarked against other countries salaries are higher for some jobs here, and mainly state employers at that. But our cost of living is higher. Remember though that it's not the ordinary joe public servants and civil servants that are sucking up all this precious money that the private sector suddenly think is god-given to them no that we're all flat broke - it's the big wigs.

    For example
    Pat Kenny - a million quid OF OUR MONEY as so rightly pointed out by the man on Frontline; that's 25c from everyone in the country on the first wednesday of december into his pocket alone.
    Brian Cowen - Paid more that Obama, Brown, Sarkozy and thats not including mileage to and from offally even though he has a state car

    Now that's benchmarking for you.


  • #223
    event
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,070 ✭✭✭✭event


    pipesofpeace wrote: »
    I'm sure a bobby workin in Londons East End with the real hardcore filth would be surprised to hear the wages of our boys

    :rolleyes:

    you dont think the criminal gangs in dublin/limerick are real hardcore?


  • #224
    willit
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭willit


    What I want to know is why people seem convinced, even to go so far as to say "I don't believe you, I believe the CSO", that the Gardai earn a fortune. Any Garda that has made a lot of money over the last few years has done so mainly by working overtime.

    As a private sector worker I would do the exact same thing. If I was to work a bank holiday then I would expect overtime pay for it. Why should the Gardai not expect the same treatment? Seriously, I want one of the naysayers to give a genuine sensible answer to why a member of the Gardai should not expect to get paid for overtime?

    Then there's talk of "whinging" about Sundays and 6am starts, threatening nature of the work and so on. I don't see any whinging regarding these points, just members coming on and stating facts about their jobs that the average private sector worker never has to face. These Gardai absolutely knew that this was part of the job before they took it, just as much as they knew that they would get overtime paid and other allowances. What's wrong with that? If the allowances and overtime change then should they expect the 6am's and dangers of the job to change as well?

    You see the thing is, the rank and file Gardai are not overpaid but it suits the government to convince us in the private sector that they are. That way they can be seen to be doing something, such as the current moratorium on hiring, to keep us happy when this is actually only weakening our safety as a result of numbers of Gardai on the streets falling. I don't have CSO statistics on numbers that retire every year, but if you don't hire any new staff yet continue to lose members through retirement, then logically you lose strength. I would love to be a Garda and will make no secret of that. It's got nothing to do with the €27,000 I would stand to earn 2 years after joining, making do with the €200 a week whilst training, I've got my own reasons for wanting to join. And if I did join today I certainly wouldn't be retiring at 50, nowhere near it, that's just ridiculous to say and would only be the case if everyone joined at 19 or 20 and had been paying enough into their pension.

    As long as there are people out there that seriously believe what the government are feeding you then this country has no hope. Rather than sniping at members of the Gardai why are you not protesting at Leinster House for the bank CEO's or the big developers to be arrested. A point was made about what would nice guy always do about an out of tax car, why are you not giving out about the fact that one person a day is going to jail for not paying mortgages yet the bank CEO's and big developers are getting multi-million euro golden hand shakes? That's the problem with this country, not the terms and conditions of the public sector but the fact that we let the real crooks get away with everything: # of banks CEO's in prison = 0; number of property developers who have refunded those that paid deposits for houses or apartments that were never delivered = 0; number of senior FÁS officials in prison = 0; number of average families, public and private sector, that NAMA is going to pay the mortgage for = 0. You get the idea.


  • #225
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yup it sure does. Join the dots a little. While running a budget deficit that is increasing like ours we need to either:

    A) make cuts
    or
    B) increase taxation.

    Gardai are tax collecting while stopping people for motor tax. Are they going to be selfish and take the "im allright jack" view if they dont take any cuts?


    If they lose the respect of the people they serve then they are going down a very bad and potentially dangerous road.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/garda-credit-union-owed-nearly-83641m-by-defaulters-1885313.html


    ^^
    Many Gardai are married to private sector workers who have lost their jobs and in fairness understand the financial crisis in the country. The rate of defaults in the Garda Credit union is one of the highest. This isnt Gardai who are losing their jobs but their other halves.

    Which brings me back to the question - are ye going to look after yourselves and or be hypocritical

    Regarding checkpoints and motorists we have a power of discretion. You won't automatically get fined / have your car taken off you. I have stopped people who have tax out over six months. I listen to them and maybe give them a chance to pay and prove payment to me. If they don't then it's before the courts where the judges have the attitude that if you can afford to run the car then you can afford the tax.

    Regarding St. Raphael's, it is the largest credit union in the country and has over €300m in assets. Obviously from the story it seems that it was lax with it's lending but it was in a position to do so and does not seem to be suffering the same as the banks. (Which is probably due to credit union rules on lending).


  • #226
    Yellowblackbird
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 603 ✭✭✭Yellowblackbird


    Out of curiosity how do individuals determine the exact pay any given job earns when society seems to have almost random criteria to determine this. Who determines the 'right' amount that any occupation earns.
    Or do people think we should adopt a form of socialism or communism where everyone earns the exact same level of pay.
    In theory the market economy the supply and demand of labour determines the wage. This wage isn't seen as 'right' or morally good, it just clears the market. Many professions are influenced by historical and elitist factors and there seems to be a real emotional involvement in a lot of people wanting to bring down other peoples salaries. In other words some people don't care as much what they earn in absolute terms once its higher relative to the opposition they're seeking to drag down, be this public towards private sector or vice versa.


  • #227
    pipesofpeace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭pipesofpeace


    I would love to be a Garda and will make no secret of that. It's got nothing to do with the €27,000 I would stand to earn 2 years after joining,

    get it right my friend if your going to use figures for Garda of two years its

    34,225 ( from http://www.gra.cc/payscales.shtml)
    +4,162 Rent Allowance
    + 380 Boot + Uniform Allowance

    = 38,767euro

    Plus shift allowance + overtime it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibilty that you would be on 40-45k after two years including allowances

    Whats the entry requirement be over 5 foot and a couple of passes in the leaving

    Before you say well i have to train for x months and only get paid €202.47 p.w while doing it nurses,teachers and the like train for 3-4years with NO pay while requiring what would be considered a very good leaving cert to even gain entry to their courses


  • #228
    Stench Blossoms
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,390 ✭✭✭Stench Blossoms


    pipesofpeace wrote: »
    get it right my friend if your going to use figures for Garda of two years its

    34,225 ( from http://www.gra.cc/payscales.shtml)
    +4,162 Rent Allowance
    + 380 Boot + Uniform Allowance

    = 38,767euro

    Plus shift allowance + overtime it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibilty that you would be on 40-45k after two years including allowances

    Whats the entry requirement be over 5 foot and a couple of passes in the leaving

    Before you say well i have to train for x months and only get paid €202.47 p.w while doing it nurses,teachers and the like train for 3-4years with NO pay while requiring what would be considered a very good leaving cert to even gain entry to their courses

    Are you going to take on board any information given to you by a Garda regarding their pay scale? Because you seem content with just arguing.

    Fair play to all Garda, Firefighters etc. Your doing a job, your getting paid for it. Keep up the good work.


  • #229
    pipesofpeace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭pipesofpeace


    Are you going to take on board any information given to you by a Garda regarding their pay scale?

    what are you talking about i just did, i took a garda payscale right from their website added in their rent allowance plus boot/uniform allowance.

    Anyone want to dispute that go ahead but i don't get your point Orla


  • #230
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    orla wrote: »
    Are you going to take on board any information given to you by a Garda regarding their pay scale? Because you seem content with just arguing.

    Fair play to all Garda, Firefighters etc. Your doing a job, your getting paid for it. Keep up the good work.

    I hope you dont suffer a job loss and are in a situation where your spending what money you have on priorities such as your mortgage. When your car tax runs out and the Gardai are out tax collecting they will tell you:
    prinz wrote: »
    Eh the law is the law. Everyone has a hard luck story.

    and
    foreign wrote: »
    I listen to them and maybe give them a chance to pay and prove payment to me. If they don't then it's before the courts where the judges have the attitude that if you can afford to run the car then you can afford the tax.

    Real Heroes


  • #231
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Deleted User wrote: »
    When your car tax runs out and the Gardai are out tax collecting they will tell you

    Mind me asking when you got done for not having your car taxed? Any reply to what I asked you already re other infringements of the law?


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  • #232
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    prinz wrote: »
    Mind me asking when you got done for not having your car taxed? Any reply to what I asked you already re other infringements of the law?

    Never but I`ll tell you what I have a problem with, Gardai acting as tax collectors. They should not be used in such a manner, it alienates them from the public and especially so in these economic times, when tens of thousands are genuinely in financial trouble.

    Put car tax on the fuel and nobody can get away with it. Do you know what your talking about by the way? Have you been in the courts are you a mule yourself? Take a look at the sheer volume of RTA crap clogging up the courts. Do you know that Gardai in some stations have to get (varies from station to station) a number of summonses a month? You know its easier to get a two dozen summonses at a checkpoint than it is to spend two or three weeks chasing people to get statements for an assault where you end up with maybe one or two summonses? The end result is a total disinterest in investigating cases where the public make complaints. Kick as much as possible to touch and do a few checkpoints on the week of nights and your cosy for the month.

    Your attempt at correlating drug dealers to people not able to pay car tax because they need the money for mortgages/loans is pathetic. Shame on you.


  • #233
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Never but I`ll tell you what I have a problem with, Gardai acting as tax collectors. They should not be used in such a manner, it alienates them from the public and especially so in these economic times, when tens of thousands are genuinely in financial trouble..

    So take it up with the Department/government, the gardaí don't choose to do it by themselves. What all this has to do with pay and allowances is....uhm nothing.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Your attempt at correlating drug dealers to people not able to pay car tax because they need the money for mortgages/loans is pathetic. Shame on you.

    Put car tax on fuel and they still couldn't afford it :confused:You are contradicting yourself.

    People need money for hyperinflated mortgages and loans no one forced them to take in the first place is it? Boo hoo. What happens if someone needs money for a mortgage and to feed their kids and deals a little dope on the side to make a few quid - why is that different to breaking any other law?


  • #234
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    prinz wrote: »
    So take it up with the Department/government, the gardaí don't choose to do it by themselves. What all this has to do with pay and allowances is....uhm nothing.



    Put car tax on fuel and they still couldn't afford it :confused:You are contradicting yourself.

    People need money for hyperinflated mortgages and loans no one forced them to take in the first place is it? Boo hoo. What happens if someone needs money for a mortgage and to feed their kids and deals a little dope on the side to make a few quid - why is that different to breaking any other law?

    ah you see your the one being contradictory now. The Gardai dont want pay cuts. I dont think they should be cut. Its hypocritical however to be penalising the rest of society while your protected. Its a matter of honour.

    Putting tax on the fuel would work because... a family struggling can not afford a lump sum tax payment. They would however be able to afford to put a little in each week to do something simply like shopping.

    Yes i totally agree with you people spent too much but there will be a readjustment process and there is no need to put unnecessary hardship on people.


  • #235
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ah you see your the one being contradictory now. The Gardai dont want pay cuts. I dont think they should be cut. Its hypocritical however to be penalising the rest of society while your protected. Its a matter of honour.

    The gardaí pay car tax on their own cars too :confused: I am not being contradictory I am saying you're confusing two separate issues and holding the fact that the gardaí enfore the law against them, when in reality if you want the car tax system changed go take it up with the people who have the power to change it!
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Putting tax on the fuel would work because... a family struggling can not afford a lump sum tax payment. They would however be able to afford to put a little in each week to do something simply like shopping.

    Again this has nothing to do with the garda on the street doing his job. It's not his/her job to means test everyone they stop. One law for everyone, obey or don't. After that it's out of the garda's hands.


  • #236
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    prinz wrote: »
    The gardaí pay car tax on their own cars too :confused: I am not being contradictory I am saying you're confusing two separate issues and holding the fact that the gardaí enfore the law against them, when in reality if you want the car tax system changed go take it up with the people who have the power to change it!



    Again this has nothing to do with the garda on the street doing his job. It's not his/her job to means test everyone they stop. One law for everyone, obey or don't. After that it's out of the garda's hands.

    I`ll put it very simply. The Gardai want mercy but they wont grant it


  • #237
    sunnyjim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭sunnyjim


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ah you see your the one being contradictory now. The Gardai dont want pay cuts. I dont think they should be cut. Its hypocritical however to be penalising the rest of society while your protected. Its a matter of honour.

    Putting tax on the fuel would work because... a family struggling can not afford a lump sum tax payment. They would however be able to afford to put a little in each week to do something simply like shopping.

    Yes i totally agree with you people spent too much but there will be a readjustment process and there is no need to put unnecessary hardship on people.

    Blindjustice. Such an apt name.

    The Gardai do their job. If they stop bringing people to court to let the judges punish them, the country just becomes anarchy.

    Gardai pay motor tax too ffs.


  • #238
    willit
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭willit


    pipesofpeace wrote: »
    get it right my friend if your going to use figures for Garda of two years its

    I'm glad you consider us friends, although I usually hang around with people that aren't so closed minded, but in your case sure I'll make an exception.

    Now firstly, I didn't say two years after becomming a Garda, I said two years after joining. I would have just about been attested so according to your link the most I would be on two years after joining is €29,792, plesae read posts properly before commenting on them in future.

    As for blindjustices point about tax collecting, can I ask you is it not illegal to drive a car on public roads without road tax??????

    If the answer is yes it is illegal then are the Gardai not doing their job, which is to uphold the law, by checking to ensure all cars on the public roads have road tax?????

    Now please don't say that their time would be better spent catching X selling drugs to Y because in that case you would be saying that one law is more important than another. All laws are there for a reason, the Gardai didn't make them up and they didn't pass them into law, that would be the job of the political powers, so maybe your anger would be better directed towards them.

    Correlating Car tax to drugs is correlating the breaking of one law with the breaking of another, it's apples with apples in that sense, the law is the law, break it and pay the consequences regardless. If you don't like it then let it be known with your vote the next time there is a general election. Coming on here making stupid arguments is not helping anyone and it only serves to drive a wedge betwen those of us in the private sector and those in the public sector, which ain't hurting the government one little bit. Shame on you.


  • #239
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I`ll put it very simply. The Gardai want mercy but they wont grant it

    It's not their job to grant mercy ffs. People want to plead mercy do it before the courts. Christ alive if the gardaí aren't doing their jobs they're in the wrong, if they do do their jobs, they're still in the wrong. Only in Ireland. :mad:


  • #240
    willit
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭willit


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I`ll put it very simply. The Gardai want mercy but they wont grant it

    So in your world the Gardai are the actual law makers, deciding when to charge someone and what for, just on the spot. No wonder you hate them so much.

    I'm not saying that Gardai shouldn't use discretion in their job, of course they do, but recession is not reason enough to no longer enforce laws such as motor tax.

    What other laws should be relaxed in your world???


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  • #241
    TouchingVirus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭TouchingVirus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I`ll put it very simply. The Gardai want mercy but they wont grant it

    Troll


  • #242
    pipesofpeace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭pipesofpeace


    Your going of the point were in deep finacial because were paying oursleves too much.

    Below is the wage of guy with just about two years experience and a few months paid training in Templmore

    The job he went for was oversubscribed ten fold suggesting the is no problem filling the positions

    34,225 ( from http://www.gra.cc/payscales.shtml)
    +4,162 Rent Allowance
    + 380 Boot + Uniform Allowance
    +shift
    +overtime
    +god knows what else
    = 38,767euro ++++++++


    plus he/she is able to retire at 55 becoming a huge financial burden on the State.

    At the end of the day Garda retire ten years earlier than the rest of us poor sods who have to keep working till were 65+ to support their pensions

    Thats the issue:

    we don't have the cash as a country to pay Garda who live at home with their mammys but get rent allowance.

    we don't the cash to over pay for positions that could be filled at a fraction of the cost

    we don't have the cash to let 55/56 year old retired Guards sit at home watching diagnosis murder while drawing generous pensions


  • #243
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    willit wrote: »
    So in your world the Gardai are the actual law makers, deciding when to charge someone and what for, just on the spot. No wonder you hate them so much.

    I'm not saying that Gardai shouldn't use discretion in their job, of course they do, but recession is not reason enough to no longer enforce laws such as motor tax.

    What other laws should be relaxed in your world???

    Just that one
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57006361&postcount=25

    Would free up alot of court time and Garda resources.

    I would advise anyone to sit in any district court in the country and observe just what goes on.

    Gardai are under pressure to get a "return of work" and issue as many summonses as possible.

    Innocent people are then summonsed to court and the cases are struck out.
    No conviction but the Garda has more work done on the system.

    Sit in court anywhere and watch this its plain and obvious what goes on.

    goes on everywhere:
    http://www.carlow-nationalist.ie/news/story/?trs=mheyojmhid
    ALMOST half of all road-traffic prosecutions taken by the gardaí to Carlow District Court in 2007 were thrown out of court.

    http://www.roscommonherald.ie/news/story/?trs=qlsnsnmh
    A TOTAL of 2,692 road traffic offences were dealt with by judges in County Roscommon
    while a total of 1,266 road traffic cases were struck out


    http://www.leitrimobserver.ie/news/Road-traffic-cases-were-most.4315850.jp
    Over 42% of cases were struck out


    http://www.sligoweekender.ie/news/story/?trs=mhgbauqlau
    ALMOST half the road traffic cases that were due before Sligo District Court last year were dismissed or struck out, according to recently released figures.


    http://archives.tcm.ie/waterfordnews/2008/07/25/story29004.asp
    THE Annual Report of the Courts Service shows that Waterford’s District Court heard mainly cases about road traffic offences and that in 2007 the majority of them were struck out.

    Statistics issued show that 6,094 road traffic cases came before the District Court, with 3,438 (just over 56%) of them being struck out


  • #244
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    I see a lot of what the guards do on a daily basis, I have treated a lot who have been seriously injured at work, I have had to operate on some. ( including one who was injured when deliberatly rammed by a joyrider)

    I have seen them tolerate verbal abuse, with calmness that I could not.


    They are pretty good value for what they do.


  • #245
    willit
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭willit


    pipesofpeace wrote: »
    Your going of the point were in deep finacial because were paying oursleves too much.

    Below is the wage of guy with just about two years experience and a few months paid training in Templmore

    The job he went for was oversubscribed ten fold suggesting the is no problem filling the positions

    34,225 ( from http://www.gra.cc/payscales.shtml)
    +4,162 Rent Allowance
    + 380 Boot + Uniform Allowance
    +shift
    +overtime
    +god knows what else
    = 38,767euro ++++++++


    plus he/she is able to retire at 55 becoming a huge financial burden on the State.

    At the end of the day Garda retire ten years earlier than the rest of us poor sods who have to keep working till were 65+ to support their pensions

    Thats the issue:

    we don't have the cash as a country to pay Garda who live at home with their mammys but get rent allowance.

    we don't the cash to over pay for positions that could be filled at a fraction of the cost

    we don't have the cash to let 55/56 year old retired Guards sit at home watching diagnosis murder while drawing generous pensions

    It's already been stated many, many times in this thread that the only Gardai that retire at 50/55 are the ones that join at 19/20 and have been paying healthy sums into their own pension, the state pension kicks in at 65 and if you join in your 30's you work into your 60's. You weaken your argument by making those sort of claims without qualifying them by pointing out what I have above.

    You should go looking for a FÁS thread, you can spout whatever you want there because those guys really were cowboys.

    By the way, can I ask if you were picketing outside Leinster house about Garda pay levels during the Celtic Tiger??? No, amazing how these things are so important now but didn't seem so when you had it easy. Cutting Garda pay will do nothing to get us out of the mess that this government has gotten us into.


  • #246
    willit
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭willit


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Just that one
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57006361&postcount=25

    Would free up alot of court time and Garda resources.

    I would advise anyone to sit in any district court in the country and observe just what goes on.

    Gardai are under pressure to get a "return of work" and issue as many summonses as possible.

    Innocent people are then summonsed to court and the cases are struck out.
    No conviction but the Garda has more work done on the system.

    Sit in court anywhere and watch this its plain and obvious what goes on.

    goes on everywhere:
    http://www.carlow-nationalist.ie/news/story/?trs=mheyojmhid


    http://www.roscommonherald.ie/news/story/?trs=qlsnsnmh
    A TOTAL of 2,692 road traffic offences were dealt with by judges in County Roscommon courts last year, with 39 prison sentences handed down and 1,039 fines imposed.

    Nine community service orders were imposed while a total of 1,266 road traffic cases were struck out


    http://www.leitrimobserver.ie/news/Road-traffic-cases-were-most.4315850.jp
    Over 42% of cases were struck out


    http://www.sligoweekender.ie/news/story/?trs=mhgbauqlau
    ALMOST half the road traffic cases that were due before Sligo District Court last year were dismissed or struck out, according to recently released figures.


    http://archives.tcm.ie/waterfordnews/2008/07/25/story29004.asp
    THE Annual Report of the Courts Service shows that Waterford’s District Court heard mainly cases about road traffic offences and that in 2007 the majority of them were struck out.

    Statistics issued show that 6,094 road traffic cases came before the District Court, with 3,438 (just over 56%) of them being struck out

    You've done a lot of research there, now what are the statistics on how many of these were struck off because of some smooth talking solicitor? I guarantee you that would account for a large number, Gardai aren't solicitors and they get as much abuse on the stand as defendants, being made look foolish at every opportunity.

    Solicitors feel big for it though I'm sure.


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  • #247
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    willit wrote: »
    You've done a lot of research there, now what are the statistics on how many of these were struck off because of some smooth talking solicitor? I guarantee you that would account for a large number, Gardai aren't solicitors and they get as much abuse on the stand as defendants, being made look foolish at every opportunity.

    Solicitors feel big for it though I'm sure.
    Its from an old thread if you check it out

    But no thats not what happens at all.

    Gardai in alot of stations are expected to have so many summonses per month. It varies from station to station.


    Go out and investigate an assault and you might be several weeks chasing up people, taking statements, interviews maybe even an identity parade. End result of the work is at most a handful of summonses often only one or two summonses.

    Go out and do a checkpoint or two on the week of nights and you can stop people and demand that they produce their driving license and insurance within 10 days at a station of their choice. They produce and you issue a summons anyway. After all when the court date comes you can strike it out.

    I recommend if you doubt me at all to go to your nearest district court and sit in.

    Management does not care about court case results but in the numbers of summonses on pulse:
    End result is Gardai being promoted and moved to preferable units (DDU, compol or Traffic) because of their trojan work issuing summonses, Gardai disinterested in regular policing duties because they wont yield them any results. Gardai kicking what they can to touch they will literally bluff people.

    Gardai can be tax collectors with moral authority if they take cuts but without cuts they will lose credibilty.
    prinz wrote: »
    So take it up with the Department/government, the gardaí don't choose to do it by themselves. What all this has to do with pay and allowances is....uhm nothing.
    ^^ It has everything to do with it because they choose to tax collect over real investigative policing


  • #248
    tracekins
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭tracekins


    Do you know that Gardai in some stations have to get (varies from station to station) a number of summonses a month?

    Who told you that interesting fact?? Funnily being a member myself I have never been told by anyone in my station that I needed x amount of summonses a month!!! Very strange altogether!!!

    Gardai do not walk by crime and do nothing, at all times in every district there are uniform and plain clothes gardai doing great work. Alot of this goes unnoted by members of the public. But we do it regardless


  • #249
    brayblue24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭brayblue24


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Have you been in the courts are you a mule yourself?

    Yawn.....That, sir, is the vocabulary of a disgruntled ex-er. Get off the stage, you've (ahem) made your point. You're actually getting boring now. Have you nothing else to do with your life than troll around every forum on this site. You're even trying to hijack the ES site now. There are other problems facing this country other than alleged millionaire fat cat Gardai you know.


  • #250
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Just that one
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57006361&postcount=25

    Would free up alot of court time and Garda resources.

    I would advise anyone to sit in any district court in the country and observe just what goes on.

    Gardai are under pressure to get a "return of work" and issue as many summonses as possible.

    Innocent people are then summonsed to court and the cases are struck out.
    No conviction but the Garda has more work done on the system.

    Sit in court anywhere and watch this its plain and obvious what goes on.

    goes on everywhere:
    http://www.carlow-nationalist.ie/news/story/?trs=mheyojmhid
    ALMOST half of all road-traffic prosecutions taken by the gardaí to Carlow District Court in 2007 were thrown out of court.

    http://www.roscommonherald.ie/news/story/?trs=qlsnsnmh
    A TOTAL of 2,692 road traffic offences were dealt with by judges in County Roscommon
    while a total of 1,266 road traffic cases were struck out


    http://www.leitrimobserver.ie/news/Road-traffic-cases-were-most.4315850.jp
    Over 42% of cases were struck out


    http://www.sligoweekender.ie/news/story/?trs=mhgbauqlau
    ALMOST half the road traffic cases that were due before Sligo District Court last year were dismissed or struck out, according to recently released figures.


    http://archives.tcm.ie/waterfordnews/2008/07/25/story29004.asp
    THE Annual Report of the Courts Service shows that Waterford’s District Court heard mainly cases about road traffic offences and that in 2007 the majority of them were struck out.

    Statistics issued show that 6,094 road traffic cases came before the District Court, with 3,438 (just over 56%) of them being struck out

    In many cases it is the laws fault, not the Guards.

    That is a big reason there'll be a delay in introducing the new alcohol limits. They know any technicality will be challenged and blame the solicitors all you want, hell even the Guards do it, it's the "cute hoor" who will not accept he is at fault who is the problem.

    There isn't a tradition in this country of saying "hands up, I got caught".

    The example of no road tax proves it. Whether you agree with it or not, thems the rules. You aren't above the law, no matter how stupid you think the law is.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #251
    pipesofpeace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭pipesofpeace


    willit wrote: »
    Cutting Garda pay will do nothing to get us out of the mess that this government has gotten us into.

    Oh but my friend your most definetly wrong cutting Garda pay would do alot to help us get out of this mess

    €940m Total Garda Pay Bill

    €643m regular pay

    €217m for allowances

    €80m for overtime

    Lets cut allowances for the craic. WOW the country has saved €217m that might come in handy to pay disabilty benefit or save us cutting the old age pension or taking medical cards off people


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