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DCM Class of 2011- the continuing challenge

24567…28

Comments

  • #52
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Female Senior (18-34)


  • #53
    sunflowerRo
    Registered Users Posts: 522 ✭✭✭sunflowerRo


    Younganne wrote: »
    i didn't do the 2m easy run today, but the family went to Dun-a-Rí forest park in Kingscourt and went for a good walk in the beautiful weather...legs felt it after as there was plenty of hills so decided not to overdo it
    but well ready for the next week.

    my plan is
    |Mon|Tue|Wed|Thur|Fri|Sat|Sun|
    |Rest|2m|4m|2M|rest|5m|Cross

    I skipped the Sunday run too as was away for wkd. Felt guilty for about 5 minutes but I'm over it now:).
    That looks like a good plan for this week so I'll be trying that too :)


  • #54
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    I think finishing the recovery stage and using that as a semi "base phase" is a good approach so we will finish the HH recovery plan over the next few weeks and then move into a new plan so here is this weeks:

    |Mon|Tue|Wed|Thur|Fri|Sat|Sun|
    |Rest|2m|4m|2M|rest|5m|Cross


  • #55
    Cutex
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭Cutex


    Thanks Ecoli. Will see how the hamstring is tomorrow & if feeling ok will give the 2m a go. Then if that goes ok will continue with the plan. Looking forward to the 5k and 10k races, we've just ran a marathon, we can do anything. Sorry that wasn't very inclusive, still on my marathon high (shock), here's to anyone willing to go out on freezing cold mornings or icy cold wet evenings in the name of running :D


  • #56
    Younganne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    Female Senior (18-34)

    I thought FS was from 18 - 39...i long out of it so...hitting 40:eek::eek:


  • #57
    Younganne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    ecoli wrote: »
    I think finishing the recovery stage and using that as a semi "base phase" is a good approach so we will finish the HH recovery plan over the next few weeks and then move into a new plan so here is this weeks:

    |Mon|Tue|Wed|Thur|Fri|Sat|Sun|
    |Rest|2m|4m|2M|rest|5m|Cross

    Sat on the recovery program is actually 30min - 60 min so everyone can chose their own distance. More or less if they want

    I chose 5m for me because that's what I can do within 60 min at a LSR pace(11mpm).....


  • #58
    meijin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,266 ✭✭✭meijin


    ecoli wrote: »
    |Mon|Tue|Wed|Thur|Fri|Sat|Sun|
    |Rest|2m|4m|2M|rest|5m|Cross

    not sure if that's the right place to ask about it, but actually why running 3 days in a row? is it not better to have days off in between so you can recover better? I actually followed different plan before marathon, with runs on Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat - Fri & Sat being long run split between those two days (longest one was 8+16 miles)


  • #59
    BobMac104
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭BobMac104


    we ran three days in a row during training to get used to running on tired legs id say this is just a follow on form that.

    I did 6m yesterday which was too much. The calves are hanging off me today.


  • #60
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    meijin wrote: »
    not sure if that's the right place to ask about it, but actually why running 3 days in a row? is it not better to have days off in between so you can recover better? I actually followed different plan before marathon, with runs on Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat - Fri & Sat being actually long run split between those two days (longest one was 8+16 miles)


    You can approach running that way also and it follows the hard easy principle strictly and as such your body is stressed one day followed by recovery the next. This is the basis off all training (stress/recover)

    You example follows the Stress/adapt/stress/adapt pattern

    Here in the HH plan the aim is to get your body working consecutive days in order to boost your aerobic capacity. By having three days in a row your body is being challenged to recovery quicker because it knows it has training the following days. This allows the body to become more efficient in the long run.

    Normally the reasoning behind every second day is to minimize injury however the fact that before this 3 day stretch you have a day off and after so your body is given the same recovery time to adapt but is made work harder on a day to day basis in this three day period though the runs themselves are short enough that they dont tax the body too much

    Hope this answers your question


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  • #61
    BobMac104
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭BobMac104


    great answer E.coli thanks.


  • #62
    Younganne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    BobMac104 wrote: »
    great answer E.coli thanks.

    +1 Ecoli, thanks. Its always great to get the answers from people in the know.

    Looking forward to the plans for after recovery with some different things builtin to help us improve. I have only ever run the miles, but never done tempo, strides, strength, etc so looking forward to having it all explained and guidance for when & how much to do.

    I do kettlebells once a week on a Thursday evening and this has greatly improved my core and it means when I get tired running I'm less inclined to slump but keep the core upright. So in a way I suppose I have been doing a bit of strength!!


  • #63
    conseng
    Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭conseng


    I did DCM last week too and am interested in following this thread. I was wondering though if it would tie in with doing a spring marathon like Connemarathon or would just be suited to improving speed over shorter distances?


  • #64
    shazkea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,090 ✭✭✭shazkea


    I just put up a group run for Sun morning in the park if anyone is interested
    Group Runs


  • #65
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    conseng wrote: »
    I did DCM last week too and am interested in following this thread. I was wondering though if it would tie in with doing a spring marathon like Connemarathon or would just be suited to improving speed over shorter distances?

    How long are you running?

    If DCM was your first marathon I would say that training for a 5 miler would be good prep to bring you nicely into a transition for the Marathon

    Two approaches which you coul take are:

    2 weeks after this recovery, 10 weeks 5m training + Race, 7 weeks Marathon training, 3 week taper

    or

    2 weeks after this recovery, 6 weeks 5m training, 11 weeks Marathon training, 3 week taper

    either way the training is going to develop your aerobic base which is important for marathon training. The quality sessions will be based around developing the aerobic base as primarily 5k-10k training and marathon training use alot of the same energy systems so in fact the shorter session will have benefits across the board


  • #66
    BobMac104
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭BobMac104


    Thanks for the title change!

    I have signed up for the clonakilty half in december but i reckon the 5 mile training will probably help that right as long as i do a few decent LSRs between now and then?


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  • #67
    Nules10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭Nules10


    BobMac104 wrote: »
    Thanks for the title change!

    I have signed up for the clonakilty half in december but i reckon the 5 mile training will probably help that right as long as i do a few decent LSRs between now and then?

    Hmm I am in the same boat signed up for the Waterford half in December. Ecoli can you advise what to do till then ? i was going to attepmt (again:rolleyes:) going for sub 2 is that a bit soon after DCM? Thanks


  • #68
    conseng
    Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭conseng


    ecoli wrote: »
    How long are you running?

    If DCM was your first marathon I would say that training for a 5 miler would be good prep to bring you nicely into a transition for the Marathon

    Two approaches which you coul take are:

    2 weeks after this recovery, 10 weeks 5m training + Race, 7 weeks Marathon training, 3 week taper

    or

    2 weeks after this recovery, 6 weeks 5m training, 11 weeks Marathon training, 3 week taper

    either way the training is going to develop your aerobic base which is important for marathon training. The quality sessions will be based around developing the aerobic base as primarily 5k-10k training and marathon training use alot of the same energy systems so in fact the shorter session will have benefits across the board

    I started running in January and ran 3-4 times a week until May when the GAA season took over. I did GAA training only until August and jumped into about week 9 of HH novice 1 marathon training program which got me around the marathon (my first marathon and 3rd race, other 2 were 10k's) and confirmed that I could enjoy this running crack.

    Thanks for the reply, I'll give it a go as I really enjoyed the "Boards" element to the marathon training. I intend to do a number of 10k races locally next year too with possibly Connemara and probably DCM.


  • #69
    red face dave
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭red face dave


    Nules10 wrote: »
    Hmm I am in the same boat signed up for the Waterford half in December. Ecoli can you advise what to do till then ? i was going to attepmt (again:rolleyes:) going for sub 2 is that a bit soon after DCM? Thanks

    Same here.


  • #70
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Nules10 wrote: »
    Hmm I am in the same boat signed up for the Waterford half in December. Ecoli can you advise what to do till then ? i was going to attepmt (again:rolleyes:) going for sub 2 is that a bit soon after DCM? Thanks

    My advice would be post recovery (1 week) to aim to try similar schedule during the week with the only difference being stretch out the long run at weekend following this pattern

    Week 1 Saturday and Sunday 70 min easy
    Week 2 Saturday 90 min easy
    Week 3 Saturday Sunday 60 min easy


    After this taper for the remaining week


  • #71
    Nules10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭Nules10


    ecoli wrote: »
    My advice would be post recovery (1 week) to aim to try similar schedule during the week with the only difference being stretch out the long run at weekend following this pattern

    Week 1 Saturday and Sunday 70 min easy
    Week 2 Saturday 90 min easy
    Week 3 Saturday Sunday 60 min easy


    After this taper for the remaining week

    Perfect thanks ecoli. can i just clarify something, so rest days monday and friday and run the other days.


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  • #72
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Nules10 wrote: »
    Perfect thanks ecoli. can i just clarify something, so rest days monday and friday and run the other days.

    Yes and the week I have scheduled only one run at the weekend (the middle week) you can do cross training on the other day


  • #73
    sunflowerRo
    Registered Users Posts: 522 ✭✭✭sunflowerRo


    Hi guys.
    I'm beginning to think i was silly signing up for that marathon cool-down on Sat now. I know Ray said it would be ok if I just run the 8 mile at slow pace but you know yourselves once you are out there you get carried away with the occasion. Legs are still tired and just very slight niggly. Does anyone have any advice as whether I would be better giving it a miss?


  • #74
    Cutex
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭Cutex


    Another question Ecoli!

    For the DCM I only ran tues,thurs & LSR on sat or sun. Have 4 kids and getting out that often is sometimes a struggle! Still managed a 4:22, started running slowly in May and built up to 10k distance in August then it took off-I fell inlove with running. Anyway I digress, my question is if I continue with only running on these days what distances & tempo or speed training should I do? Really want to improve my times over shorter distances.

    Thanks in advance :)


  • #75
    snailsong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,140 ✭✭✭snailsong


    Younganne wrote: »
    I thought FS was from 18 - 39...i long out of it so...hitting 40:eek::eek:

    Happy birthday in advance. I was already a veteran when I ran my first race in April last year. Go figure. Early forties seems about average in races I think. Someone on here said you get 10 years of improvement regardless of what age you start. I'm happy to go with that.


  • #76
    kit3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭kit3


    snailsong wrote: »
    Happy birthday in advance. I was already a veteran when I ran my first race in April last year. Go figure. Early forties seems about average in races I think. Someone on here said you get 10 years of improvement regardless of what age you start. I'm happy to go with that.

    Will probably be sorry I asked but what age is veteran and is there any category after that ?


  • #77
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Masters categories start at M/F35 (age 35-39) and go up in increments of 5 years from there.


  • #78
    snailsong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,140 ✭✭✭snailsong


    kit3 wrote: »
    Will probably be sorry I asked but what age is veteran and is there any category after that ?

    I was talking about over 40 which seems to be called Male Veteran in most events I've done. Sometimes you see MV40 and MV50 categories. I'm not an octogenarian if that's what you thought;)


  • #79
    kit3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭kit3


    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    Masters categories start at M/F35 (age 35-39) and go up in increments of 5 years from there.

    Knew I shouldn't have asked. Seems I've been a master for all of 9 yrs :eek: wasn't even running for most of that time. Think I'll ignore it ! makes me suddenly feel old


  • #80
    kit3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭kit3


    snailsong wrote: »
    I was talking about over 40 which seems to be called Male Veteran in most events I've done. Sometimes you see MV40 and MV50 categories. I'm not an octogenarian if that's what you thought;)

    No - didn't think that at all. I'm probably a bit older than you - 44 last b/day:rolleyes: Edit - just re-read my post - wasn't asking your age - just what age the veteran category started at


  • #81
    Younganne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    snailsong wrote: »
    Happy birthday in advance. I was already a veteran when I ran my first race in April last year. Go figure. Early forties seems about average in races I think. Someone on here said you get 10 years of improvement regardless of what age you start. I'm happy to go with that.


    Thanks Snailsong - 6 week left to be a "youngone" and then I think I heard somewhere once that Life begins at 40:D

    When i was a running in U10s a few yrs ago:D my mother used to run in the Over 40s and that seems so old:eek: to me then...but i have recently changed my mind:D

    Age is all in the mind after all, not the legs......


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  • #82
    snailsong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,140 ✭✭✭snailsong


    I'm 41 if anyone's interested. I look at other people my age and think they're getting old but thankfully I'm still a young fella:p. I'm definitely fitter than when I was 30.

    Edit- A young guy at work, about 20, was listening to my ipod one day and said 'hey, you're a cool old person'. I still haven't worked out if that's good.


  • #83
    barking1503
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭barking1503


    Hi All - jumping in here and hoping to tag along here too. Just finished DCM my 1st marathon and am a plodder, 5.08, though carrying a niggling achilles injury which came against me.Anyhooo really love to improve my times in general, feel a bit can run forever but it's slower I am getting,,,,,

    Haven't been on road since DCM mainly due to unbel sore toes!!! Last of my hanging off nails now gone (:eek::eek::eek:) so can go again. Am ignoring achilles as has had more than enough attention since early August:mad:

    Was aiming for Waterford half in Dec and then Dungarvan 10 miler in Jan.

    Maybe I should re-read this thread but just wondering at what level of effort should we be running the mid-week runs???

    Thanks all, this thread might help my post marathon blues.....have run out of people who will listen to my DCM talk!!!!


  • #84
    barking1503
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭barking1503


    snailsong wrote: »
    I'm 41 if anyone's interested. I look at other people my age and think they're getting old but thankfully I'm still a young fella:p. I'm definitely fitter than when I was 30.

    Edit- A young guy at work, about 20, was listening to my ipod one day and said 'hey, you're a cool old person'. I still haven't worked out if that's good.

    As an aside I am also 41 and my teenage daughter thought my LSR music list was "pathetic" until in the car yesterday we heard "Aint nothin going to break my stride" by Matthew Wilder (80's "classic") all remixed and newly released. :D:D:D Got such pleasure in it!!!!

    On this basis the Rocky soundtrack will surely be next for re-release;)


  • #85
    KittyMittens
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭KittyMittens


    Great to see a new thread to follow :), thank you!


  • #86
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Cutex wrote: »
    Another question Ecoli!

    For the DCM I only ran tues,thurs & LSR on sat or sun. Have 4 kids and getting out that often is sometimes a struggle! Still managed a 4:22, started running slowly in May and built up to 10k distance in August then it took off-I fell inlove with running. Anyway I digress, my question is if I continue with only running on these days what distances & tempo or speed training should I do? Really want to improve my times over shorter distances.

    Thanks in advance :)

    I am gonna let you in on the greatest training secret in running. It is the most important factor and is the key to the success of every runner throughout the years......... Consistency.

    A persons aerobic capacity is something that takes years and years to develop fully (and often people dont ever get to a point where they fully develop it) Simply put putting in the miles week in week out will yield massive benefits from anything from 1500m to marathon and further.

    The training on those days will see you yield benefit but the aim is always safe progression of training. As you will get fitter your "easy run" pace will naturally come down and you will get quicker without having to force the pace. So if you are doing 30 min runs 3 times a week and covering 3 miles in each run as you get fitter you will start to cover more ground (for example 3.5 miles in 30 min and then on to 4 miles)

    At the moment the plan is still on recovery but after this I will be adding one quality day a week with the remainder being aerobic running. Aim to try hit as many of these as you can with the one quality session being the focus of the week.

    This does not mean that the quality session is the be all and end all but its a part of an overall puzzle and as such easy runs are just as important and not to be ignored completely if you are looking for optimum benefit


  • #87
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    barking1503 wrote: »
    Hi All - jumping in here and hoping to tag along here too. Just finished DCM my 1st marathon and am a plodder, 5.08, though carrying a niggling achilles injury which came against me.Anyhooo really love to improve my times in general, feel a bit can run forever but it's slower I am getting,,,,,

    Haven't been on road since DCM mainly due to unbel sore toes!!! Last of my hanging off nails now gone (:eek::eek::eek:) so can go again. Am ignoring achilles as has had more than enough attention since early August:mad:

    Was aiming for Waterford half in Dec and then Dungarvan 10 miler in Jan.

    Maybe I should re-read this thread but just wondering at what level of effort should we be running the mid-week runs???

    Thanks all, this thread might help my post marathon blues.....have run out of people who will listen to my DCM talk!!!!

    Regarding the ankle my advice would be listen to your body. Garmins Sports science etc are great tools which have helped running in recent years but the greatest measurement tool you can have is your body as such it is important to have a good reading of your body this is something which if you can master can yield great benefits overall. Ignoring pain can often make things worse and easier to get maintenance on niggles than having to take time off injured (which often leads to getting desperate and trying anything a physio suggests)

    In terms of easy pace. What pace did you do these runs prior to the marathon? Best advice would be you should be able to hold a conversation if not you are running too fast. Running calculators such as Mcmillan/ Runningforfitness.org/Runbayou.com are all great websites which you can input your most recent race results in order to gain a rough idea of what paces you should be running at but should be used as a guide moreso than an exact figure as you have to take into account weather, personal circumstances and run profile and adjust accordingly which is why i stress trying to learn to listening to your body


  • #88
    kit3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭kit3


    ecoli wrote: »
    As you will get fitter your "easy run" pace will naturally come down and you will get quicker without having to force the pace. So if you are doing 30 min runs 3 times a week and covering 3 miles in each run as you get fitter you will start to cover more ground (for example 3.5 miles in 30 min and then on to 4 miles)

    Does this progression go on indefinately or do you reach a plateau from where you need speed work to progress further ? I started "running" in March 2009 and my natural easy run pace was 12 minute miles (practically a walk by most people's standard on here). At this stage my natural easy run pace is about 9.50 min miles. Should this keep going down with more miles put in or will it stop without specific speed work ? Thanks


  • #89
    Jimh
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭Jimh


    I did my first marathon (first race) in May 2010 to celebrate my 50th Birthday weighing in at 16 1/2 stone (5"10) - I have now done Dublin twice and Barcelona, Athlone 3/4 Marathon twice and two 1/2's this year. My achilles ache and I have wrecked my knee but I still got out today for 7K. I think that I might have the bug.
    I am now in the 14St 10Lb category:D


  • #90
    Younganne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    Jimh thats a great weight loss, fair play to you, keep it going....its a bug alright, but one that you don't want to get rid off!!!

    I walked my first marathon in 2006 and promised to run it some day.... 6mths after i had my 3rd child i started running in June 2009. I ran my first marathon like yourself in 2010, ran it again this yr and have done various races over the last yr, not many but a few.... I am now on Marathon recovery week 1 and at the end of week 4 i will do 5k race probably Castleblaney 4th Dec, 10k on 28th Dec in Howth and then follow Ecolis plan for the 5 m at the end of Jan.....


    Keep posting your progress here as we are all novices and we are using the experts on the Boards forum to help us improve;)


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  • #91
    Jimh
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭Jimh


    I was over 17 stone when I started training for Newry in Jan 2010 - I was a bit dissapointed with my performance in Dublin this year - I did 4:30 in Dublin last year but training this time started really well and I did 1:54 in the Longford Half and then picked up a problem - I then did a steady 1:57 in Phoenix park but picked up my knee injury 3 miles from the end. Two Weeks later I did the Athlone 3/4 in just over 3 hours so I was hoping to get close to or under 4 hours but on the day I felt really tired after 12 miles and I reached half way in 2:00:31 but from 13-19 it was walk a mile run a mile and somehow I ran the last 7 mile to finish in 4:28. The 3/4 was my only long run and the lack of miles told on me in the end
    My training partner has done all 32 Dublin Marathons and at the age of 65 did a 1:56 half finishing in 4:08


  • #92
    Younganne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    i hope your injuries clear up.

    I had 1.57 in the half marathon this year also in dublin and 4.27 in the marathon so we have similar times. I passed through halfway in 2.11 but found mile 12 - 16 very hard.. i kind of relaxed after that and had a steady run from there on in...

    That's some achievement from your training partner, congrats to them, theres not many who have done all 32 marathons... is that a woman from Dundalk, a collegue of mime mentioned a friend of hers who is 64 and has done all 32 marathons??
    I hope to improve on all my times in teh next 12 mths and if I follow Ecoli's advice as above probably will...as it is last year i did 10m in 98, this ye 92, last yr 1/2 mar in 2.02, this year 1.57 so that is the aerobic improvement i think he is taking about....so onwads & upwards or (downward with the times):)


  • #93
    Jimh
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭Jimh


    No - He is from Athboy and Fr Murphy's AC - said this was the last one he was running but I think he may change his mind now:)


  • #94
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    kit3 wrote: »
    Does this progression go on indefinately or do you reach a plateau from where you need speed work to progress further ? I started "running" in March 2009 and my natural easy run pace was 12 minute miles (practically a walk by most people's standard on here). At this stage my natural easy run pace is about 9.50 min miles. Should this keep going down with more miles put in or will it stop without specific speed work ? Thanks

    You will see progression up until a point. With easy running as your mileage builds up and your aerobic capacity develops you begin to get less return from the work you put in. If you look to elite and well trained athletes they are looking to take seconds off their time as opposed to the minutes simply because they have to put in more hard work to get less gains this is where speedwork comes into in.

    Think of it like building a car we can build the engine up only to a certain point after which it doesnt matter how much horse power we put into it, it wont get any faster unless we are able to transfer all this power into increase of speed. Speed work is like fine tuning the gears to allow you to translate this built up power into speed.

    Simply put you can build up your aerobic capacity to a point where you are able to run say for example 8 min miles all day This is all well and good but if your body goes into shock running say 7.50 min miles and cant handle it then it doesnt matter how much strength you have because it will count for nothing this is where "speed work" comes into play

    I have put his in inverted comma's because put simply road runners dont do speed work in the true sense. A road runners aim is to make there body more efficient at running higher speeds so that the body can sustain these paces on race day. This is done in a number of ways such as Tempos, intervals, progressions, fartlek, hills, form drills and strides. Most people feel that you need to come away from a session ready to collapse or puke but to be honest this is running to hard you should always feel like if you needed to you could be able to do one more rep.

    Sorry about the long winded speeches I ramble and digress from the point sometimes:o:D


  • #95
    red face dave
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭red face dave


    ecoli wrote: »
    You will see progression up until a point. With easy running as your mileage builds up and your aerobic capacity develops you begin to get less return from the work you put in. If you look to elite and well trained athletes they are looking to take seconds off their time as opposed to the minutes simply because they have to put in more hard work to get less gains this is where speedwork comes into in.

    Think of it like building a car we can build the engine up only to a certain point after which it doesnt matter how much horse power we put into it, it wont get any faster unless we are able to transfer all this power into increase of speed. Speed work is like fine tuning the gears to allow you to translate this built up power into speed.

    Simply put you can build up your aerobic capacity to a point where you are able to run say for example 8 min miles all day This is all well and good but if your body goes into shock running say 7.50 min miles and cant handle it then it doesnt matter how much strength you have because it will count for nothing this is where "speed work" comes into play

    I have put his in inverted comma's because put simply road runners dont do speed work in the true sense. A road runners aim is to make there body more efficient at running higher speeds so that the body can sustain these paces on race day. This is done in a number of ways such as Tempos, intervals, progressions, fartlek, hills, form drills and strides. Most people feel that you need to come away from a session ready to collapse or puke but to be honest this is running to hard you should always feel like if you needed to you could be able to do one more rep.

    Sorry about the long winded speeches I ramble and digress from the point sometimes:o:D

    Loving the replies Ecoli.:)


  • #96
    kit3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭kit3


    Thanks for the reply. very interesting to see the theory. Will enjoy trying it out as we go along. Must say I have modest expectations - have no natural speed but will enjoy the challenge and love getting out. roll on tomorrow lunchtime:)
    ecoli wrote: »
    You will see progression up until a point. With easy running as your mileage builds up and your aerobic capacity develops you begin to get less return from the work you put in. If you look to elite and well trained athletes they are looking to take seconds off their time as opposed to the minutes simply because they have to put in more hard work to get less gains this is where speedwork comes into in.

    Think of it like building a car we can build the engine up only to a certain point after which it doesnt matter how much horse power we put into it, it wont get any faster unless we are able to transfer all this power into increase of speed. Speed work is like fine tuning the gears to allow you to translate this built up power into speed.

    Simply put you can build up your aerobic capacity to a point where you are able to run say for example 8 min miles all day This is all well and good but if your body goes into shock running say 7.50 min miles and cant handle it then it doesnt matter how much strength you have because it will count for nothing this is where "speed work" comes into play

    I have put his in inverted comma's because put simply road runners dont do speed work in the true sense. A road runners aim is to make there body more efficient at running higher speeds so that the body can sustain these paces on race day. This is done in a number of ways such as Tempos, intervals, progressions, fartlek, hills, form drills and strides. Most people feel that you need to come away from a session ready to collapse or puke but to be honest this is running to hard you should always feel like if you needed to you could be able to do one more rep.

    Sorry about the long winded speeches I ramble and digress from the point sometimes:o:D


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  • #97
    Nules10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭Nules10


    red face dave wrote: »
    Loving the replies Ecoli.:)

    +1 on the replies ecoli


  • #98
    barking1503
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭barking1503


    In terms of easy pace. What pace did you do these runs prior to the marathon? Best advice would be you should be able to hold a conversation if not you are running too fast. Running calculators such as Mcmillan/ Runningforfitness.org/Runbayou.com are all great websites which you can input your most recent race results in order to gain a rough idea of what paces you should be running at but should be used as a guide moreso than an exact figure as you have to take into account weather, personal circumstances and run profile and adjust accordingly which is why i stress trying to learn to listening to your body[/QUOTE]

    Thanks a mill e coli. I can definately hold a conversation training running, I could go forever at my DCM training pace which was 11 min miles. Prior to that I was prob a 10 min miler and for a 10m race used to run between 9-9.30 (but wouldn't be chatting at this pace for me:(). when I started running 2 yrs ago I got as far as 7 min miles over a 3 mile course but that is a distant memory to me now!!!
    Injury aside, I really enjoyed the slow pace of the DCM training - and had no time expectations for the race. I was in a brill group of about 13 all at similar level.
    My problem now is that I feel I have gotten slower. If the training run pace upped even a bit I felt it straight away and found it tough enough. Hopefully this thread and your great advice will help to see if I can get out of my current 11mm rut and get some kind of speed up (though sometimes wonder if I have it in me at all).
    BTW if I don't stop my post DCM eating I will have a ton more weight to drag around which won't help my speed work;)
    sorry all for long post..............


  • #99
    jamesmurphy1
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭jamesmurphy1


    ecoli wrote: »
    You will see progression up until a point. With easy running as your mileage builds up and your aerobic capacity develops you begin to get less return from the work you put in. If you look to elite and well trained athletes they are looking to take seconds off their time as opposed to the minutes simply because they have to put in more hard work to get less gains this is where speedwork comes into in.

    Think of it like building a car we can build the engine up only to a certain point after which it doesnt matter how much horse power we put into it, it wont get any faster unless we are able to transfer all this power into increase of speed. Speed work is like fine tuning the gears to allow you to translate this built up power into speed.

    Simply put you can build up your aerobic capacity to a point where you are able to run say for example 8 min miles all day This is all well and good but if your body goes into shock running say 7.50 min miles and cant handle it then it doesnt matter how much strength you have because it will count for nothing this is where "speed work" comes into play

    I have put his in inverted comma's because put simply road runners dont do speed work in the true sense. A road runners aim is to make there body more efficient at running higher speeds so that the body can sustain these paces on race day. This is done in a number of ways such as Tempos, intervals, progressions, fartlek, hills, form drills and strides. Most people feel that you need to come away from a session ready to collapse or puke but to be honest this is running to hard you should always feel like if you needed to you could be able to do one more rep.

    Sorry about the long winded speeches I ramble and digress from the point sometimes:o:D

    Hi All
    Will be keeping an eye on this thread as I enjoyed the novice one. My question is I did my second DCM marathon this year. Lasy year 04.56 expected to do 04.30. This year 04.54 again expected to do 04.30. Some of my other times H/M 02.08 last year and this year 02.00 Athlone this year 03.17. Frank Duffy this year 01.31. Have run several 4 and 5 mile races over the last 2 years. I was following the HH Novice 2 program and stuck to it fairly well. This years marathon did not feel so good but finished it but was very disappointed with my time. Question is how can I improve my times over the winter I am also thinking of joining a club would that help I am 53 so not how to improve have only being running 3 years


  • #100
    Younganne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    ecoli wrote: »

    Sorry about the long winded speeches I ramble and digress from the point sometimes:o:D

    Ramble away Ecoli it makes for fascinating reading especially for me as i know nadda about the "science" of running.

    I do find myself reading more on it thought at the moment!!

    I had a lovely long post done last night and my system crashed and i lost it and didn't have the time to retype:o


  • #101
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    jamesmurphy1 wrote: »
    Hi All
    Will be keeping an eye on this thread as I enjoyed the novice one. My question is I did my second DCM marathon this year. Lasy year 04.56 expected to do 04.30. This year 04.54 again expected to do 04.30. Some of my other times H/M 02.08 last year and this year 02.00 Athlone this year 03.17. Frank Duffy this year 01.31. Have run several 4 and 5 mile races over the last 2 years. I was following the HH Novice 2 program and stuck to it fairly well. This years marathon did not feel so good but finished it but was very disappointed with my time. Question is how can I improve my times over the winter I am also thinking of joining a club would that help I am 53 so not how to improve have only being running 3 years


    Age is not a limiting factor especially to people coming to the sport late. It is true that your peak age in terms of top level running (in a well trained athlete) is roughly 28 and after this it is your Vo2 Max* which begins to degenerate however this has very little influence on your aerobic base and as such people who come to the sport late can improve for years after this point by aiming their training around this.

    *Vo2 max is basically the amount of oxygen your blood can transport to the muscles by the blood. More oxygen means longer a pace can be sustained.

    This is why you will see many Boardsie's hitting PBs into their late 30s and 40s

    You mentioned you followed plans perviously, did you do anything in between the plans? time off usually means that your body spends the first few weeks of the training plan trying to get back to the point of fitness it was at rather than improving. You do see some benefit simply because its easier to regain fitness than it is to attain it in the first place.

    Club is a good start as not only do you get advice etc but you get the motivation in training and people pushing you. Its easier to duck out of a run when you are self motivating but is slightly harder when you know your absence will be noted by someone you train with


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