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General Weight Loss Support Thread

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  • 04-12-2012 11:00pm
    #1
    doctorwhogirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭


    I've been on boards a lot more lately and I used to LOVE the food diaries but alas they are no more.

    I'm trying to lose the last few pounds through calorie counting. I had got down to goal previously but have been up and down about a stone since. Not too bad but I'm focused on getting to goal this time eating as well as I can.

    I post my food on MyFitnessPal and I get support on there but sometimes I'd love a place where I can rant if I need to :P

    I love reading the weightwatchers thread and the slimming world thread, especially since I lost my weight with weightwatchers previously, but I don't feel like I can post how I'm getting on in there because I'm not on those programmes.

    Maybe there aren't enough people for this thread to gain momentum but I would like somewhere where I, and others can:
    • Share how I'm getting on
    • Read about others' progress
    • Get help for when I'm stuck or losing focus and give help to others
    • share recipes and food ideas

    What do we all think?

    Side note: Mods, I don't intend this to become a food diary thread because I completely understand why they closed in the first place; just a place where those of us who aren't on WW/Slimming World/Unislim can help each other out when we need to!


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    #2
    mags100
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭mags100


    Hi doctorwhogirl. Came across your post when browsing.
    Support and motivation are pretty much what I'm after too, so maybe we can help each other.

    You sound like you've a lot of your hard work done already. Have you much to lose? How come you didn't stick with WeightWatchers?
    Generally interested in how you're going about it and the results you're having.

    I've been using the 5:2 method (2 fast [very low calorie] days, the other 5 normal eating) for the last month and plan to continue into the first couple of months of 2013 at least. Loss is slow but steady so far, i.e. 1lb a week. As I haven't cut back at all on the 5 days, or increased exercise much, the 1lb for each 2 fast days is nicely predictable, on the basis that I understand a deficit of 3,500 calories equates to 1lb weight loss. Apart from the weight loss, this style of intermittent fasting has been claimed to have impressive health benefits. I find this a good motivator to keep with the method, even if the weight loss is slow.


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    #3
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Great idea :)

    I'm not following any plan at all, I'm trying to lose weight by eating a balanced diet and doing plenty of exercise. I want to lose about 2 stone. I've eased up on it a bit now its nearly Christmas but in the new year I will be back to normal and would love somewhere I can post.

    Its hard to find a forum unless you are using a specific plan and I am not really into "dieting".


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    #4
    offroadannie
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭offroadannie


    Sounds good to me. I plod along nicely for a while and then lose motivation. So having somewhere like this would be great :)


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    #5
    Stench Blossoms
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,390 ✭✭✭Stench Blossoms


    Good idea :)


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    #6
    WaterLily.
    Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭WaterLily.


    I'd like to lose a stone, so about two weeks ago I decided to really make an effort to eat healthily and start running properly. Before now I'd always do it halfheartedly and give up after a few days. I now know what I was doing wrong and I'm determined to make this a full lifestyle change.

    I do have one question though, I'm trying to run 4 or 5 times a week but I'm in college from 10am till about 4pm then it takes me an hour to get home and by then its already dark. And a few days a week I'd stay in late for societies and other things. Basically I just can't find any time to run. I'm getting 3 runs in per week, 2 on the weekend and one on tuesday morning as I don't start till late morning.

    Does anyone have any advice as to how to fit my runs in?

    Thanks!

    Good idea for a thread btw :)


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    #7
    doctorwhogirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭doctorwhogirl


    Hurray! I'm always nervous starting threads like this so glad to see some people with the same mindset!

    WaterLily. wrote: »
    I do have one question though, I'm trying to run 4 or 5 times a week but I'm in college from 10am till about 4pm then it takes me an hour to get home and by then its already dark. And a few days a week I'd stay in late for societies and other things. Basically I just can't find any time to run. I'm getting 3 runs in per week, 2 on the weekend and one on tuesday morning as I don't start till late morning.
    Does anyone have any advice as to how to fit my runs in?

    That's difficult WaterLily! It would be a lot of effort but could you bring your runners and gear and get a jog in during the day at college? Maybe half hour at lunch or during a free class?

    Other than that I quite like running at night! Just make sure you run somewhere that's well lit and that you are wearing a Hi-Vis jacket/gear!
    mags100 wrote: »
    Hi doctorwhogirl.
    You sound like you've a lot of your hard work done already. Have you much to lose? How come you didn't stick with WeightWatchers?
    Generally interested in how you're going about it and the results you're having.

    I think it might be nice if we share our stories maybe!
    I had a food diary http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=61510936
    These were my initial stats back then! 8/8/09
    Age 22 (WISH I WAS 22!!!)
    Height 5ft 4inches
    Start weight 16 stone
    Current Weight 14 stone 9 pounds
    My Goal weight 10 stone (give or take!)


    I got to goal in June 2010 with weightwatchers (10 stone)
    Since then, my weight has never gone above a stone above that but I've never managed to stay really close to 10. I'm always hovering around 10 and a half to 10st 10 or so :( Weightwatchers was great, but I can't lose with it anymore. I did a lot of cutting back to low points which sort of damaged my metabolism a bit I feel...I gain very easily

    I exercise 5 times a week minimum- boxing, weights, running and love it

    My current aim is to get back down to 10st.
    I have increased by cals as I felt that I was eating far too little so currently I'm eating around 1500 and tracking using MyFitnessPal! :)

    These are current stats as of Saturday!

    Age 26 (WISH I WAS 22!!!)
    Height 5ft 4inches (shockingly I haven't grown an inch ;) )
    Start weight 16 stone
    Current Weight 10 stone 6.5 pounds
    My Goal weight 10 stone (give or take!)

    To be honest. I'm more for health now. Exercise and good food 90% of the time.

    Anyone else excited about all the Xmas festivities but feckin dreading it too!!!
    My whole calendar is full of parties and alcohol and food! Which is brilliant but god it's going to be tough on the old waistline/willpower!

    For example, I have a meet up next week with mates that is purely centred around us all baking and eating the goods!!! (Great Xmas Bake Off ;) )

    I'm going to make some lower fat biscuits and buns for it I think.


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    #8
    mags100
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭mags100


    Thanks for sharing your story doctorwhogirl.
    You've done amazing, I'm really impressed. Even more so because you've kept the weight down so well, for so long.

    My stats:
    Age: forties
    Height: 5 ft 2 inches
    Start Weight: 12 stone 9 pounds
    Current Weight: 12 stone 1 pound
    Goal Weight: Around 11 stone

    My story:
    I'm 5ft 2inches or so, and have always carried a bit of excess weight, but nothing too excessive till the last few years.
    In my twenties, I was around 10 stone 7 pounds mostly.
    In my thirties, this became closer to 11 stone and above.
    Sadly, in my forties I've allowed it to creep up to 12 stone and above. On the plus side I gave up smoking. At my highest last year, I was 12 stone 9 pounds.
    As the charts show me now in the obese category, I've finally decided to tackle the weight issue again.
    With intermittent bouts of focusing on healthy eating, I gradually came down to 12 st 5 lbs in the early part of this year.
    Keeping motivated has always been a problem for me. Keeping away from cans of bud and junk food is the biggest part of that problem! I felt seriously deprived having to abstain for days at a time in my 'healthy eating' phases. I realise moderation is the ideal, but it's not one of my strong points.
    My current approach of only having to think about dieting 2 days a week has helped with motivation this time around. So far anyway.
    I planned to be down to 12 stone by Christmas, and I think I'm on target for that.
    The next target will be 11 stone 7 lbs by Easter.
    After that, we'll see. I'm not after the supermodel look, just a healthy BMI.

    Good luck with the Great Xmas Bake Off.

    Anyone else willing to share their stories?


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    #9
    doctorwhogirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭doctorwhogirl


    Disgusting weather outside and I DID NOT want to go to the gym.

    But I did.

    So I'm going to congratulate myself my announcing it here! :P

    Good day food wise. Made my usual spaghetti bolognese with courgette peelings as pasta. It's blooming delicious! Whole massive dinner only comes to about 420 cals! And that's including some cheese! :D


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    #10
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    My stats:
    Age: 35
    Height: 5 ft 2 inches
    Start Weight: about 13 st
    Current Weight: about 13 stone
    Goal Weight: 10.5 stone

    I'm a fairly healthy eater, my big problem is portion size, I know I eat too much. I am a recovering bulimic so conventional diets are out. I'm not really focusing too much on the weight loss really, I just want to be fit and healthy. I started running this year and my goal is to run the mini marathon in June so I will need to eat properly and do plenty of training to make that happen.

    I won't be killing myself this side of Christmas, I'm not pigging out but I'm not saying no to the odd drink or chocolate if I am offered it either. I have to be very careful I don't become obsessed with food and slip back into old habits.


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    #11
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Thought I'd add myself to this conversation.

    Weighed myself in late July/early August, came up as 20 stone 6 pounds. As of sunday (I weigh myself every sunday) I now weigh 16.12 (as of 2nd December) . 6 foot 2 inches (male). I'm 24. Initial target weight of 14 stone, which would make me borderline overweight, according to my BMI at any rate. When I get there I'll relax a little but try to lose another half stone or so, begin to get into the weight lifting in a serious way and convert some of this flab into muscle.

    My diet is balanced but I think I'm lacking protein since I go to the gym 3-4 times a week (do weights 3 times a week minimum) Breakfast consists of porridge/branflakes, mid morning snack usually crackers with extra light cheese triangles (Laughing cow). Lunch is a simple sandwich and coffee. Dinner is pasta/chicken, potatoes/soup, or something simple (Sometimes just porridge and then yogurt after.

    During the working week I find this routine relatively easy to manage, the tricky part is the weekends. I'm not going out this weekend as I'm trying to save money, but have been drinking and partying more than usual in the past few months. My ancient enemy is the Doner kebab. For some reason when I've alcohol in me I will go to any lengths to eat one of these bad boys.

    Best of luck everyone. Nothing feels better than losing weight and actually noticing it off yourself (And having to throw out your old fatpants!)


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    #12
    doctorwhogirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭doctorwhogirl


    eviltwin wrote: »

    I won't be killing myself this side of Christmas, I'm not pigging out but I'm not saying no to the odd drink or chocolate if I am offered it either. I have to be very careful I don't become obsessed with food and slip back into old habits.

    Best of luck and congrats on beating your food demons previously. Christmas is a time to enjoy food!
    Denerick wrote: »
    Thought I'd add myself to this conversation.

    Weighed myself in late July/early August, came up as 20 stone 6 pounds. As of sunday (I weigh myself every sunday) I now weigh 16.12 (as of 2nd December) . 6 foot 2 inches (male).

    Best of luck everyone. Nothing feels better than losing weight and actually noticing it off yourself (And having to throw out your old fatpants!)

    WOW! Congrats on all your weight loss so far! That's serious stuff! I kept 1/2 pairs of fat pants to throw on myself when I feel unmotivated!!!


    So today I weighed in and I was down a pound! Hurray! I've been plateauing a LOT but lost 1.5 now in past two weeks so I'm thrilled!!! :D


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    #13
    offroadannie
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭offroadannie


    I'm more of a Boards lurker than a poster. And I've been reading up loads on nutrition here on Boards, and all the advice that is given, over the past week and it is brilliant info.

    First off, I've started using MyFitnessPal and oh-boy what a wake-up call that has been! My meals are quite good but my snacking is the complete opposite. Having to put these entries in has made me rethink what I'm about to eat.

    So ........

    Female
    Weight - 10st4lb
    Height - 5ft5in
    Goal - 9st
    Exercise - I'm a YoYo runner! I started running again a few weeks ago and am up to 7km. I do this all the time and then lose motivation. But I've made a decision to join the local running club in January, and hopefully by then I'll be up to 8km or thereabouts.

    My story basically is that I spent my whole life being slim. And then I had 3 kids in the space of 4 yrs. Baby No. 2 was where I fell down, just didn't lose all the weight. And have been struggling since :o


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    #14
    lemon_sherbert
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭lemon_sherbert


    Hey, I tend to lurk around these parts, but thought I'd join in! My story is basically that I was overweight all my life, and August 2011 started my journey to a healthier existence. I've been using myfitnesspal too, but just for the calorie logging, never engaged in the community there. Still a work in progress, pretty happy with the loss so far, and I feel I've got a good exercise regime going (run 3x a week, with some exercise bike and bodyweight work thrown in on a good week), but I've stalled the past couple months. I tend to overeat for emotional reasons and can't seem to get a handle on that yet. I'm maintaining at least, but would really like to see some progress closer to goal and maybe a little boards support will help me along :) Psychologically, getting under 80kg will be a big milestone for me.

    And the stats:
    Female
    Age: 23 (24 in a few weeks)
    Height: 5'9
    Start weight: 119 kg (about 19 stone) :eek:
    Current weight: 82 kg (13 stone)
    Goal weight: 68 kg (Though to be honest, once I get to 76 I'll be at a healthy BMI, so may revise when I'm at that point - if I ever get there!)


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    #15
    elsy
    Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭elsy


    My stats:
    Starting weight: 14st 11
    Current weight: 9 st 13
    Goal: 9 stone

    Hi guys I'd like to join in I'm almost 2 years into my journey of getting fit and healthy. I'm 29 and once I hit 17 I started gaining weight no other reason than laziness and over eating over the past couple of years I've been blessed with 2 beautiful daughters after the birth of my second daughter I decided I wanted to be a mammy they could be proud of and more importantly a mammy that would be healthy and enjoy doing things with them as they grew up. So January 2011 I started and I've never looked back I ran my first half marathon this year and am 2lbs off a total weight loss of 5 stone at present I am 9st 13 I would like to get to the low 9 stones as my over all goal I'm 5ft 4 and finding the last bit of weight so hard to shift so all the encouragement will be great I use my fitness pal as my main weight loss tool and try eat as clean as possible not always easy though


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    #16
    hollypink
    Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭hollypink


    doctorwhogirl wrote: »
    Anyone else excited about all the Xmas festivities but feckin dreading it too!!!
    My whole calendar is full of parties and alcohol and food! Which is brilliant but god it's going to be tough on the old waistline/willpower!

    Hope you dont mind me posting as I'm not trying to lose any more weight but I lost 2.5 stone this year and IMHO maintaining your weight isn't much different to trying to lose it, except you dont have to be as strict. I'm a little worried about Christmas as well! Especially when I saw this:
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/average-person-piles-on-seven-pounds-over-christmas-577317.html
    The average person puts on half a stone over the festive period.

    The Irish Nutrition and Dietetic Institute says many of us clock up as much as 6,000 calories on Christmas Day alone.
    Although I suppose anyone on this thread would be more conscious of calories than the average person referred to in the article :) If anyone has any thoughts on how they are planning to handle Christmas food and drink wise, I'd love to hear.


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    #17
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    im justnot going to drink much or eat much in the way of sweets :)

    after losing a stone around september I fell off the wagon massively and have been at a stable enough 12s10lb since then. im actually pretty happy that I was able to eat as much **** as I did over the last 2 months and not gain weight, while I clearly wasn't eating well I was at least keeping a subconscious eye on the calories. I had hoped to be mostly done with the weight loss by my birthday in february which won't be the case now but I don't care all that much, it was just a little date I'd picked to have a target.. missing it doesn't actually matter.

    been trying to get a bit of exercise in but my ankle pain/shin splints that I thought had gone away hadn't actually gone away. i'm able to walk far longer than I used to be, but if I pick up the pace at all the pain comes rushing in very quickly so that's kinda killed any plans I had for C25K or anything like that, it's also given me a good excuse not to bother going out for a walk in the evenings which I'm going to have to make more of an effort to do. I've been exercising a bit with dumbbells at home but I have the upper body strength of a 9 year old girl so that's been slow going and I'm not expecting anything from it except slowly building a base to work from later next year.

    all in all, no progress but no regress either so reasonably happy and I'm still buzzing slightly off my clothes fitting better from september


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    #18
    Stench Blossoms
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,390 ✭✭✭Stench Blossoms


    Well my weight loss is more than likely going to stall now.

    I've got shingles. Lovely.

    Doc said that the 'pain' will kick in in a few days and that if I really want to I can go to the gym in the mean time.

    She said just to make sure I wipe down all the equipment thoroughly and 'don't let anyone touch you'. :)

    I'm sure if it's a good idea or not.


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    #19
    lemon_sherbert
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭lemon_sherbert


    Stench Blossoms wrote: »
    I've got shingles. Lovely.

    You poor thing, I hope you recover fast! Keep positive, and you'll be back in the gym before you know it.
    hollypink wrote: »
    If anyone has any thoughts on how they are planning to handle Christmas food and drink wise, I'd love to hear.

    I know, I'm pretty worried about Christmas too - my plan is to drive to all the parties, therefore no drinking, (which makes up a lot of the calories this time of year I think!) Then as for sweets, etc. I'm going to try to limit my indulgences to Christmas day itself. It can also be nice to suggest long walks to the family (provided the weather cooperates), which has the dual benefit of getting you out of the house and away from the food and also get a bit of fresh air and exercise. Along with keeping up the exercise, fingers crossed we'll not be joining the average with all that weight gain! (It's actually pretty shocking really, says a lot about how messed up our diets are as a nation).


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    #20
    offroadannie
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭offroadannie


    Wow, some of you guys have lost so much weight. How do you stay motivated long-term???

    I can be motivated for 2 weeks and then it starts to slip.

    Anybody any tips on the usual auld cravings?


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    #21
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    offroadannie wrote: »
    Wow, some of you guys have lost so much weight. How do you stay motivated long-term???

    I can be motivated for 2 weeks and then it starts to slip.

    Anybody any tips on the usual auld cravings?

    The gym usually works with me. As does smoking (Possibly not the healthiest tip!) When I'm full of endorphones I can't think of junk food, my brain won't allow me to do something so contradictory.

    To be honest I have slipped a little. This sunday was the first sunday in three months where the scales registered no weight loss whatsoever (At least I didn't gain weight though, which I suppose is something)


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    #22
    offroadannie
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭offroadannie


    Denerick wrote: »
    The gym usually works with me. As does smoking (Possibly not the healthiest tip!) When I'm full of endorphones I can't think of junk food, my brain won't allow me to do something so contradictory.

    To be honest I have slipped a little. This sunday was the first sunday in three months where the scales registered no weight loss whatsoever (At least I didn't gain weight though, which I suppose is something)

    Losing weight every week for 3 months!! That is fantastic, well done. Yes I'm the same with exercise, it definitely releases the happy-hormones. But I need to partake more often.


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    #23
    lemon_sherbert
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭lemon_sherbert


    offroadannie wrote: »
    Anybody any tips on the usual auld cravings?

    I'd echo the exercise comment Denerick has made, nothing like sweating it out for 30 min to really make you want to stick to the program for another day. As for sugar cravings, unfortunately the only thing that works for me is cold turkey. First couple days are awful, but after that I don't miss it. The impulse to overeat isn't something I've conquered yet, but I've learned at least that it's an emotional response, so usually I just try to recognise what has me craving the food and try to distract myself for a half hour and usually then the craving has passed.


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    #24
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Totally agree with the advice re exercise. One thing I do is give myself a treat every night. Its only something small like a mini bar or a scoop of ice cream but I don't have it until the evening and I find when I have been out running that last thing I want is something sweet. Just a cup of tea gets me by :)


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    #25
    all_smilz
    Registered Users Posts: 747 ✭✭✭all_smilz


    Stench Blossoms wrote: »
    Well my weight loss is more than likely going to stall now.

    I've got shingles. Lovely.

    Doc said that the 'pain' will kick in in a few days and that if I really want to I can go to the gym in the mean time.

    She said just to make sure I wipe down all the equipment thoroughly and 'don't let anyone touch you'. :)

    I'm sure if it's a good idea or not.

    May be of risk to pregnant women who arent immune to chickenpox or shingles-Unlikely you'll be touching them or what not. Mind yourself. Let ur body rest!


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    #26
    molly09
    Registered Users Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭molly09


    Hi Mags

    Can I ask what calorories do you limit yourself to on the low calorie days and are these consective days?
    I am planning on starting this diet pland in the new year.
    Molly


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    #27
    mags100
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭mags100


    Hi Molly,
    I keep to around 500 calories on the 'fast' days. Usually some fruit during the day and a small, mostly veggies, dinner in the evening.
    I only did consecutive days once, and found it too hard. Monday and Wednesdays are what have worked for me so far.
    With Christmas around the corner, it's getting harder to get days that suit. But like you, I'll come back to it in January.
    Looking forward to hearing how it goes.
    Mags


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    #28
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    bought a jumper on friday that was a large, it was a tight fit but it looked good.. i was a little put off by the tightness of it at first until I realised all my clothes were from when i was 2-3+ stone heavier and I hadn't had a jumper that actually fit properly in years. felt pretty good about it anyway, wore it out at the weekend. all good

    decided that since I liked the jumper so much (so warm, so warm) I'd go buy another today.. same brand, same jumper, same size... the one I got today barely fits. uncomfortably tight, something of a struggle to zip up. not so good.



    as annoyed as I am about todays clothes shopping foibles it's given me the kick up the ass I needed to get back on track properly. I was very lah-dee-dah about the weight loss as my last post in this thread a week ago shows but im getting my head back in the game from today. there's 2-3 nights coming up I have to go out for over the xmas period so bound to be several hundred unneccesary calories of alcohol each night there but outside of that I'm not letting myself away with being lazy about my diet. no more half assed calorie counting, no more "ah, i'm a couple of hundreds calories from my maintenance I'll have a snickers", I'm doing up a food plan and I'm sticking to it with no exceptions and no lee-way given.

    I've about 8-9 pounds to go until I'm at 12 stone, I intend on having them and more gone by the time I'm 30 in february but I'll be happy enough with 12 stone by the end of feb. As strict as I intend on being I don't want to push myself to failure as those pick and mix bags of cherry cola bottles are just 100 yards up the road and I won't need much excuse.


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    #29
    lemon_sherbert
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭lemon_sherbert


    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »
    ... as annoyed as I am about todays clothes shopping foibles it's given me the kick up the ass I needed to get back on track properly...

    Congrats on getting back on the horse - I had the same pretty much over the month of November, got complacent, and once you stop seeing the numbers on the scale go down, the excuses just keep coming! But I've been back on track for the last couple of weeks, and as of this morning, for the first time in my adult life I'm under 80 kg (79.5, but I'm taking it as a victory!) It works, provided we stick with it, good luck with the motivation over the next couple of days :)


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    #30
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    bought new jeans today, 32 waist. they're a snug fit, but they fit.

    checked a pair of trousers I had from a year, maybe a little more ago... 36 waist and I could barely get them closed when I got them.

    i kinda wish I hadn't spent the last few years avoiding photographs, i'd like a pictorial record to compare now and then.


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    #31
    Knockout_91
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭Knockout_91


    Great idea for a thread.

    I joined WW a few months ago but felt i was just going up and down, up and down, and that is was ultimately a waste of money.

    However, I am going to give it another chance in the New Year :) but for now, Christmas, I am not going to worry about anything and just enjoy myself. If I want that extra scoop of ice cream, then an extra scoop I shall enjoy :)

    Also - Just wondering, why was the Food Diary closed anyways?


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