Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
gyms asked to issue needles in the UK.
Comments
-
The level of stupidity and outrage is pretty high in this thread still.
No one is taking about people injecting in the gym changing room for starters. All they are saying that needles can be provided for take home use.
Some one mentioned that more pharmacists taking part in a needle exchange program would be a decent alternative. I agree.0 -
Why wouldn't they inject at home? What does contest location have to do with it.
I think you watched too many Pop-Eye cartoons.
gave reasons before. Can think of more. Young - uns living at home or aul wans sharing rented accommodation. Spending 4 hours twice a day (BBer style) weights morn, cardio evening. Why wouldn't you? People are injecting in gyms. The question is whether facilities should be mandatory.0 -
gave reasons before. Can think of more. Young - uns living at home or aul wans sharing rented accommodation. Spending 4 hours twice a day (BBer style) weights morn, cardio evening. Why wouldn't you? People are injecting in gyms. The question is whether facilities should be mandatory.
You reasons before made no sense, and either to these ones. Eg A comp might be far away. Do you think that they inject right before they go on stage and instantly grow? lmfao. Incredible Hulk style, maybe that's why they use so much fake tan - to hide the green skin.
What has living at home or in shared accom got to do with anything? They'll still be keeping the stuff at home no matter where they inject If they can find privacy for a ****, they'll have privacy to jab themselves in the ass.
I doubt there's many people training 4hours twice a day in the average Irish gym. But I don't see how that relevant. What's your point? Are you suggesting that they inject before and after every session or something.
The OP was about gyms provide clean needles for people to take home, similar to a needle exchange for drug users. It wasn't about letting people inject in the changing rooms.0 -
gave reasons before. Can think of more. Young - uns living at home or aul wans sharing rented accommodation. Spending 4 hours twice a day (BBer style) weights morn, cardio evening. Why wouldn't you? People are injecting in gyms. The question is whether facilities should be mandatory.
Mate, not even Phil Heath spends 4 hours twice a day in the gym.
This thread makes no sense.0 -
My question is :
1) IF these were being prescribed by a medical practitioner via a pharmacy there would be no issue whatsoever with needles as they would be supplied correctly like any medication that is injected.
2) IF they are not supplied this way, then they should be illegal as it is absolutely lethally dangerous to take any injectable drug that you do not know the origins of, do not know the side effects of and that you are not receiving medical monitoring of.
The potential risks of taking an injectable, even if it were only saline (sterile salt water), are huge compared to someone taking a drug orally or as a cream or something like that. It's directly entering your blood stream, bypassing all of your normal defences and any pathogens or impurities in it can cause really bad problems ranging from various forms of toxic shock, necrosis and blood poisoning to serious damage to veins and muscle tissue or other very extreme reactions.
So, to me that would indicate that these drugs are being purchased on the internet or on the black market and that should be completely illegal and stamped out
So, I honestly think gyms should stay very clear of getting involved with anything like this.
People can call for stuff all they like, it doesn't mean that it's happening.
Also the gym would immediately be taking on a responsibility and duty of care to ensure that whatever products it were supplying were safe to use and if they were to go wrong, e.g. a needle was of poor quality or contaminated somehow, they could be sued and face all sorts of legal consequences.
...
If this stuff goes wrong someone could literally die. I am not being over the top in saying that.
Ask any medical practitioner and they will explain it to you in detail.
That's before you even start to look at the potentially very serious and long-term side effects of steroid use which can be quite life-altering too.
No gym should be condoning this practice. It's extremely dangerous and I would not be surprised if we start to see dead or very badly injured body builders as a result of this stuff.
Supplying equipment would be directly condoning it.0 -
Yes these dangerous evil unsupervised drugs should be banned. I think its 20000 Americans die (by mistake not suicide) due to adverse reactions to asprin each year. Another 100000 in the US alone are hospitalised.
Jacked was linked to 5 deaths world wide (all of which had underlying heart problems) ad was banned.
We live in a world of control where our civil liberties are slowly being eroded. More rules every year. More bans every year.0 -
The underlying premise of the thread is ridiculous. Gyms shouldn't be responsible for distributing clean needles. If a public health risk of that nature is identified, needles should be made available via hospitals, clinics and pharmacies - and information of such availability made visible to gym users in need of the facility.0
-
People are complete idiots with sharps in general.
On several occasions I have had to report needles in a university toilets to the security staff and they're not someone doing steroids or junkies or anything nasty like that, it's someone who is too lazy to dispose of finger-prick blood sugar tests and throws them down the back of the loo!
What did those needles look like then ?
Could be heroin ?
http://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/16164/ - 11,000 students at say 1%
http://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/14704/
.0 -
-
Advertisement
-
You reasons before made no sense, and either to these ones. Eg A comp might be far away. Do you think that they inject right before they go on stage and instantly grow? lmfao. Incredible Hulk style, maybe that's why they use so much fake tan - to hide the green skin.
What has living at home or in shared accom got to do with anything? They'll still be keeping the stuff at home no matter where they inject If they can find privacy for a ****, they'll have privacy to jab themselves in the ass.
I doubt there's many people training 4hours twice a day in the average Irish gym. But I don't see how that relevant. What's your point? Are you suggesting that they inject before and after every session or something.
The OP was about gyms provide clean needles for people to take home, similar to a needle exchange for drug users. It wasn't about letting people inject in the changing rooms.
"NICE is calling for increased efforts to allow public health staff to be able to advise users on how to use the products, their side effects and on safer alternatives such as exercise and healthy eating."
Cant make this any clearer. If theres a big print version of boards somewhere then log onto it.0 -
Public health staff should give health advice to the public. Shocker."NICE is calling for increased efforts to allow public health staff to be able to advise users on how to use the products, their side effects and on safer alternatives such as exercise and healthy eating."
Cant make this any clearer. If theres a big print version of boards somewhere then log onto it.
Given the level of misunderstand of the topic by the public, see any thread on here as an example, people out there are deciding to use steroids with understanding what they are doing. I don't agree with the use of PEDs at all, but if people are going to use them anyway, which appears to be the case, then speaking to a doctor, or some other public health professional first wouldn't be a bad thing imo. Doctors are in the awkward of not supporting or condoning steroid use. But they also have a duty of care if somebody's is 100% going to do it.0 -
Public health staff should give health advice to the public. Shocker.
Given the level of misunderstand of the topic by the public, see any thread on here as an example, people out there are deciding to use steroids with understanding what they are doing. I don't agree with the use of PEDs at all, but if people are going to use them anyway, which appears to be the case, then speaking to a doctor, or some other public health professional first wouldn't be a bad thing imo. Doctors are in the awkward of not supporting or condoning steroid use. But they also have a duty of care if somebody's is 100% going to do it.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local-news/man-nearly-dies-in-limerick-after-injecting-steroids-1-5202332
Duty of Care might be the nexr step.0 -
The second last sentence makes the article void.
Second read of article and it is horrendous.0 -
john_cappa wrote: »The second last sentence makes the article void.
Because you don't like what the director of the UL arena says means the article is void?
Are you implying that the man in the article didn't spend weeks in intensive care after taking non prescription steroids?0 -
Because you don't like what the director of the UL arena says means the article is void?
Are you implying that the man in the article didn't spend weeks in intensive care after taking non prescription steroids?
I am implying that his opinion around which the article is based is mis guided if he is genuine warning the danger creatine poses given that it is amongst the most researched supplement and it's safety is well known.
I am implying its a poorly written article full of sensationalist quotes from "gym members.
Possibly he is in hospital and maybe AAS was linked. There could be many cause. Perhaps having clean needles available and information is available on procedure then the risk is as close to zero as possible. If you buy pharmaceutical grade AAS then you again as as safe as can be.
Taking AAS is a measured risk. So is getting in your car. As I mentioned how many people are hospitalised and die each year due to adverse reactions to FDA approved over the counter medicines is huge....and here we have an isolated story with no facts only speculation.0 -
Advertisement
-
john_cappa wrote: »The second last sentence makes the article void.
Second read of article and it is horrendous.
Posted it to show people are injecting in gyms and that gyms are also a place of learning for steroid novices. Lots of talk on forums and between gym goers. Little published articles here.
IGF becomming poular here too.0 -
john_cappa wrote: »
Taking AAS is a measured risk. So is getting in your car. As I mentioned how many people are hospitalised and die each year due to adverse reactions to FDA approved over the counter medicines is huge....and here we have an isolated story with no facts only speculation.
I've been reluctant to join in on this conversation due to the heavy handed and misguided moderation of this forum but I think you've gone quite far enough spouting your ill-informed bull****. You honestly haven't got a clue. Regardless of how many body building magazines you've read, Charles Poliquin blog posts you've read, CLint Darden youtube's you've seen, you do NOT know what you're talking about.Yes these dangerous evil unsupervised drugs should be banned. I think its 20000 Americans die (by mistake not suicide) due to adverse reactions to asprin each year. Another 100000 in the US alone are hospitalised.
Your facts are wrong and made up. Please don't make up stats to support your erroneous argument. Even if it was correct, it actually complete undermines your argument not support it. If thousands of people were dying of side affects directly attributable to aspirin, a drug that is one of the most stringently tested and closely observed, what does that say about random people taking random amount of random Anabolic steroid drugs? Surely that means that if we opened the flood gates on Anabolics, there would be massive amounts of deaths associated with them?Jacked was linked to 5 deaths world wide (all of which had underlying heart problems) ad was banned.
Banned because there are alternatives with not such a bad side effect profile or because the number of deaths per number of people to benefit is too low.We live in a world of control where our civil liberties are slowly being eroded. More rules every year. More bans every year.
Come on the **** will ya. If I told you a bungie jump had a 1/100000 chance of failing and you'd die, if you were mad keen on bungie jumping, you might do it anyway. You would sign a disclaimer at the bungie jump kiosk explaining you've been informed of the risk, that your estate can't sue as a result, and informed decision, it's your mature right to decide for yourself. Does that apply to drugs like this. ABSOLUTELY NOT. WHY?
Because when you have a severe adverse reaction to a drug, e.g. cocaine, e.g Anabolic steroids you end up in ICU. ICU costs the state about 1500 euro a day per bed. When you have a guy in the bed, you are preventing someone else from getting into that bed. You are taking up a dedicated specialist nurse (ICU in the regional hospital limerick is 1:1 nursing to patient care), a consultant anaesthist / intentsive carist doctor, a senior registrar doctor, a registrar doctor, and a multitude of more junior doctors and other anciillary staff. You may have signed away your right to sue the bungie jumper / drug dealer but the STATE has to pay, the hospital has to pay, the tax payer has to pay.
If you think you know all the complications, adverse effects, problems associated with random people taking steroids, you're probably one of the few consultant endocrinologists / sports medical doctors that do.0 -
Just to note, being familiar with the gym referenced in that article, I think it would be fair to say the gym is the exception rather than the rule.0
-
Given your short time here and the couple of knuckle raps you have had already I don’t think it is the moderation of the forum that is the problem.Drained_Empty wrote: »I've been reluctant to join in on this conversation due to the heavy handed and misguided moderation of this forum
I don’t read any of the above actually.Drained_Empty wrote: »I think you've gone quite far enough spouting your ill-informed bull****. You honestly haven't got a clue. Regardless of how many body building magazines you've read, Charles Poliquin blog posts you've read, CLint Darden youtube's you've seen, you do NOT know what you're talking about.
My facts are not wrong. See quote below for exampleDrained_Empty wrote: »Your facts are wrong and made up. Please don't make up stats to support your erroneous argument. Even if it was correct, it actually complete undermines your argument not support it. If thousands of people were dying of side affects directly attributable to aspirin, a drug that is one of the most stringently tested and closely observed, what does that say about random people taking random amount of random Anabolic steroid drugs? Surely that means that if we opened the flood gates on Anabolics, there would be massive amounts of deaths associated with them?
"Conservative calculations estimate that approximately 107,000 patients are hospitalized annually for nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID)-related gastrointestinal (GI) complications and at least 16,500 NSAID-related deaths occur each year among arthritis patients alone." The American Journal of Medicine, July 27, 1998, p. 31S)
and that was just amongst arthritis suffers (perhaps someone has a more uptodate figure).
Regardless I was simply highlighting the illusion of safety as they are a legal drugs which manages to kill many. Just because something is illegal does not mean it is unsafe. It is a measured risk.Drained_Empty wrote: »
Banned because there are alternatives with not such a bad side effect profile or because the number of deaths per number of people to benefit is too low.
I suspect it was banned due to the ridiculous hype in the media.Drained_Empty wrote: »
Come on the **** will ya. If I told you a bungie jump had a 1/100000 chance of failing and you'd die, if you were mad keen on bungie jumping, you might do it anyway. You would sign a disclaimer at the bungie jump kiosk explaining you've been informed of the risk, that your estate can't sue as a result, and informed decision, it's your mature right to decide for yourself. Does that apply to drugs like this. ABSOLUTELY NOT. WHY?
Because when you have a severe adverse reaction to a drug, e.g. cocaine, e.g Anabolic steroids you end up in ICU. ICU costs the state about 1500 euro a day per bed. When you have a guy in the bed, you are preventing someone else from getting into that bed. You are taking up a dedicated specialist nurse (ICU in the regional hospital limerick is 1:1 nursing to patient care), a consultant anaesthist / intentsive carist doctor, a senior registrar doctor, a registrar doctor, and a multitude of more junior doctors and other anciillary staff. You may have signed away your right to sue the bungie jumper / drug dealer but the STATE has to pay, the hospital has to pay, the tax payer has to pay.
If you think you know all the complications, adverse effects, problems associated with random people taking steroids, you're probably one of the few consultant endocri
I am not even sure what your point is above? Can you point how many people per year end up in hospital due to AAS use?
How much does alcohol or smoking cost the “state” each year (acknowledging the fact that smokers etc pay heavily through tax)? Or even those with more lifestyle related diseases such as heart disease? Obesity? Type 2 diabetes? Etc.
Either way I only point really enforcing was that AAS users are not the evil that everyone thinks they are. The shock horror of “I couldn’t share a gym” where you can get needles is an over the top reaction. Projecting them as junkies as per that article (who injects into their forearm as per the picture shows for example? Lol). That said I don’t see the need for gyms to supply needles. A pharmacy/needle exchange is a better approach.
AAS users are far more common that people think. The holier than you attitude from those who use or condone achohol/tobacco and/or more “acceptable” illegals (hash etc.) is nauseating.0 -
-
Advertisement
-
john_cappa wrote: »What do you mean?
The only gym mentioned in the article is UL (unconnected to the incident from the article).
Sorry, I meant the gym where the incident occurred.0 -
-
john_cappa wrote: »
My facts are not wrong. See quote below for example
"Conservative calculations estimate that approximately 107,000 patients are hospitalized annually for nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID)-related gastrointestinal (GI) complications and at least 16,500 NSAID-related deaths occur each year among arthritis patients alone." The American Journal of Medicine, July 27, 1998, p. 31S)
and that was just amongst arthritis suffers (perhaps someone has a more uptodate figure).
No you are completely wrong. You googled aspirin deaths, found a mickeymouse website linking to that study on the first page http://lmgtfy.com/?q=aspirin+deaths ; http://adjusthealth.info/health-news/89-40000-deaths-in-usa-caused-by-aspirin-and-painkillers-every-year and quoted it here. This is an example of stupidity, you quoting and spreading incorrect information. If you read the paper, which you didn't you would have read:In the ARAMIS study, 26 deaths (all in RA patients) resulted from GI complications observed in the 12,224 patient-years of exposure to NSAIDs. Of
these, 19 could be definitely attributed to NSAID use, for a raw annual GI death rate of 0.22% and a relative risk of 4.21.
The paper then completely inappropraitely extrapolated that to get 16500 deaths. to spell it out, they looked at a group of sick people with osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis (diseases associated with elderely, SLE, sjorgens syndrome, AS, PCA, many many more) who were on a medication for 20-30 years because of their terrible pain, and found out that 26 died GI bleeding. GI bleeding, 'probably' caused by chronic NSAID use. This medication not only included aspirin but also
drug, n, gi toxicity
Salsalate 187 0.81 6 0.51
Ibuprofen 577 1.13 6 0.29
Aspirin 1521 1.18 6 0.18
Sulindac 562 1.68 6 0.29
Diclofenac 415 1.81 6 0.35
Naproxen 1062 1.91 6 0.21
Tolmetin 243 2.02 6 0.44
Piroxicam 814 2.03 6 0.24
Fenoprofen 158 2.35 6 0.55
Indomethacin 418 2.39 6 0.34
Ketoprofen 259 2.65 6 0.43
Meclofenamate 165 3.91 6 0.54
which you can see that while apsirin was most popular drug, there were many more also used.Regardless I was simply highlighting the illusion of safety as they are a legal drugs which manages to kill many. Just because something is illegal does not mean it is unsafe. It is a measured risk.
no. no regardless. you were using bad science, a bad paper, a lie, misdirection, ambugity to give a false impression you had evidence for your nonsense claim.
THIS IS IT SPELT OUT. YOU ARE COMPARING A DRUG THAT SICK PEOPLE TAKE EVERY DAY FOR 30 YEARS THAT MAY CAUSE .22% DEATH A YEAR WITH STEROIDS. AND TRYING TO SAY BECAUSE .22% PPL DIE A YEAR FROM NSAID WE SHOULD LEGALISE AND PROMOTE STEROIDS. THIS IS STUPIDI am not even sure what your point is above? Can you point how many people per year end up in hospital due to AAS use?
no i don't have that info, do you?How much does alcohol or smoking cost the “state” each year (acknowledging the fact that smokers etc pay heavily through tax)?
billionsOr even those with more lifestyle related diseases such as heart disease? Obesity? Type 2 diabetes? Etc.
billions
.Either way I only point really enforcing was that AAS users are not the evil that everyone thinks they are
you are not enforcing anything, you are being misleading out of ignornanceThe shock horror of “I couldn’t share a gym” where you can get needles is an over the top reaction.
no it's not, i wouldn;t use a pub that gave junkies free needles either.Projecting them as junkies as per that article (who injects into their forearm as per the picture shows for example? Lol).
when you inject into the cubital fossa and your veins all get knackered you go looking for any vein that will do - hand, leg, feet, penis.That said I don’t see the need for gyms to supply needles.
good manA pharmacy/needle exchange is a better approach.
they can use heroin addict needle exchanges if they so wish, pharamcies sell diabetic needles and syringes.AAS users are far more common that people think.
nonsense statement, riddled with logical fallacy.The holier than you attitude from those who use or condone achohol/tobacco and/or more “acceptable” illegals (hash etc.) is nauseating.
so are you saying taking steroids is as stupid as binge drinking, cigarette addiction and recreational drugs?0 -
Admittedly I didn’t read the paper to be honest. I do have access to it but don’t have the time. I did see lower figures of circa 3500 per year on another website/article but quoted the higher figure. Either way it doesn’t matter. My point stands even if only 1 person died from Nsaid/aspirin use, regardless there are risks associated with everything you put in your body. Even a simple, safe, over the counter, cheap as chips, FDA approved ‘pain killer’.Drained_Empty wrote: »No you are completely wrong. You googled aspirin deaths, found a mickeymouse website linking to that study on the first page http://lmgtfy.com/?q=aspirin+deaths ; http://adjusthealth.info/health-news/89-40000-deaths-in-usa-caused-by-aspirin-and-painkillers-every-year and quoted it here. This is an example of stupidity, you quoting and spreading incorrect information. If you read the paper, which you didn't you would have read:
The paper then completely inappropraitely extrapolated that to get 16500 deaths. to spell it out, they looked at a group of sick people with osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis (diseases associated with elderely, SLE, sjorgens syndrome, AS, PCA, many many more) who were on a medication for 20-30 years because of their terrible pain, and found out that 26 died GI bleeding. GI bleeding, 'probably' caused by chronic NSAID use. This medication not only included aspirin but also
drug, n, gi toxicity
Salsalate 187 0.81 6 0.51
Ibuprofen 577 1.13 6 0.29
Aspirin 1521 1.18 6 0.18
Sulindac 562 1.68 6 0.29
Diclofenac 415 1.81 6 0.35
Naproxen 1062 1.91 6 0.21
Tolmetin 243 2.02 6 0.44
Piroxicam 814 2.03 6 0.24
Fenoprofen 158 2.35 6 0.55
Indomethacin 418 2.39 6 0.34
Ketoprofen 259 2.65 6 0.43
Meclofenamate 165 3.91 6 0.54
which you can see that while apsirin was most popular drug, there were many more also used.
It may be bad science but that type of extrapolation is common in many published papers. Take it up with the authors, editor and blind reviewers mate. You miss the point of my nonsense claim as you are too busy arguing and shouting like a 10 year old.Drained_Empty wrote: »no. no regardless. you were using bad science, a bad paper, a lie, misdirection, ambugity to give a false impression you had evidence for your nonsense claim.
I can hear you. You are very angry at everyone. You must be a rereg…….....Drained_Empty wrote: »THIS IS IT SPELT OUT. YOU ARE COMPARING A DRUG THAT SICK PEOPLE TAKE EVERY DAY FOR 30 YEARS THAT MAY CAUSE .22% DEATH A YEAR WITH STEROIDS. AND TRYING TO SAY BECAUSE .22% PPL DIE A YEAR FROM NSAID WE SHOULD LEGALISE AND PROMOTE STEROIDS. THIS IS STUPID
You are busy putting words in my mouth. I personally would have no problem with AAS being legalised. They are legal in many countries in the world. I never said anything about promoting them either. I was simply lolling at the outrage at the idea of people being able to get needles from the gym if they chose particularly by people who are part of the gym community.
I don’t. There probably is no info as the number of people is so insignificant.Drained_Empty wrote: »
no i don't have that info, do you?
billions
billions
So all AAS users are “evil”?Drained_Empty wrote: »No you are not enforcing anything, you are being misleading out of ignornance
I don’t think I would eitherDrained_Empty wrote: »no it's not, i wouldn;t use a pub that gave junkies free needles either.
That is kind of my point. The article uses a picture that depicts AAS users as “junkie”. As I am sure you know there are no AAS that you inject into any vein.Drained_Empty wrote: »
when you inject into the cubital fossa and your veins all get knackered you go looking for any vein that will do - hand, leg, feet, penis.
Again you lump them in with junkies. No doubt you will come back with “AAS are illegal and users should be treated as such”Drained_Empty wrote: »
they can use heroin addict needle exchanges if they so wish, pharamcies sell diabetic needles and syringes.
No. I never mentioned “binge drinking” or “cigarette addiction”. I said “The holier than you attitude from those who use or condone achohol/tobacco and/or more “acceptable” illegals (hash etc.) is nauseating”. If you are unable to understand what I mean then there is little I can do.Drained_Empty wrote: »
so are you saying taking steroids is as stupid as binge drinking, cigarette addiction and recreational drugs?
Now you can have the last word.0 -
good luck0
-
If juicers want to juice, let them. While it's not a path I would choose myself, (primarily due to long term health reasons - I'd love the faster results) I've no issue with those who make the choice to do so.
There's a whole lot of folk on steriods these days, and as it would make it much safer for them, they should be legalised, regulated, and doctors can be involved in the whole process.
I don't see though why they have to inject in the gym. Can't that be done at home, or perhaps there's an instant effect and they want to utilise it fast?0 -
Advertisement