What am I doing wrong?

TheShizz · 27-03-2014 6:47pm #1

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=iznyfs%3E&s=8#.UzRjA6h_vW5

This is my latest attempt to make mortar but it's just not working for me.

I'm on the verge of having a nervous breakdown because this is my third day trying to produce the clay-type mortar necessary for building jobs.

jack of all · 27-03-2014 8:37pm

Mix looks like it might benefit from the addition of a little plasticiser, for a small job you could just use a little Fairy Liquid (the bubbles produced in the mix improve plasticity) to improve workability. Purists will argue that you should use nothing other than a proper branded plasticiser but washing up liquid will do the job in a pinch. Also I would add that the trowel you are using is too small for anything other than repointing or patch repairs, a full size bricklayer's trowel is what you need. Don't give up yet!

TheShizz · 27-03-2014 8:42pm

That is a full-size trowel, I just have very big hands. That was a joke. I do have a bigger trowel but it doesn't fit in the basin so I can't mix with that.

I'll try Fairy Up next time, but is it going to help that much? I'm nowhere near the right consistency, am I?

monkeynuz · 27-03-2014 8:44pm

what ratio of sand/cement are you using?

what sand are you using?

It looks very grey to me.

Littlehorny · 27-03-2014 8:47pm

Are you using a good building sand? Make sure its not plastering sand your using. Also get a gallon of morticiser and borrow or hire a mixer, mixing by hand will never mix it as well as a machine.

TheShizz · 27-03-2014 8:51pm

It's a 3:1 pre-mix bag of sand & cement. It also has elements of lime in it according to the bag. It's the real deal; I'm just not very good at using it.

vinnie13 · 27-03-2014 11:56pm

jack of all wrote: »

Mix looks like it might benefit from the addition of a little plasticiser, for a small job you could just use a little Fairy Liquid (the bubbles produced in the mix improve plasticity) to improve workability. Purists will argue that you should use nothing other than a proper branded plasticiser but washing up liquid will do the job in a pinch. Also I would add that the trowel you are using is too small for anything other than repointing or patch repairs, a full size bricklayer's trowel is what you need. Don't give up yet!

+1 tought the same needs a little fairy

Stavros Murphy · 28-03-2014 12:27am

TheShizz wrote: »

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=iznyfs%3E&s=8#.UzRjA6h_vW5

This is my latest attempt to make mortar but it's just not working for me.

I'm on the verge of having a nervous breakdown because this is my third day trying to produce the clay-type mortar necessary for building jobs.

Bin the pre-mixed muck, buy some fine sand, some lime, some cement, bung in 3.1.1 of each - you need a mixer - a dash of plasticiser/fairy and enough water. Let it mix, and mix. Then get on and lay whatever you're laying. Practice makes perfect. If you're mixing it in a bowl, forget it, you need a mixer.

Dtp1979 · 28-03-2014 9:25am

TheShizz wrote: »

It's a 3:1 pre-mix bag of sand & cement. It also has elements of lime in it according to the bag. It's the real deal; I'm just not very good at using it.

Mix in a large bucket and Make sure you add the dry mix to water, not the other way around. Have a drop of fairy in the water stirred first.

jack of all · 28-03-2014 10:53am

Just to add to the above, make sure it is "building sand" you get- it is soft sand, has plenty of fines in it and not to be confused with a sharp plastering sand. Just mix the dry elements throughly first before adding water. For small jobs there's nothing wrong with mixing up in a bucket or on a spot board, it's just hard work. I still have fond memories of my grandfather showing me how to mix up a bit of mortar with a shovel on a board when I was chap!

WilyCoyote · 30-03-2014 5:00am

The sand in your video is too sharp ........ almost like screeding sand.

albert kidd · 30-03-2014 12:16pm

DO NOT USE FAIRY LIQUID as has been suggested on this thread..buy plas.

if washing up liquid was to be used builders merchants would be selling in.

leave your washing up liquid on the sink.

it reduces the strenght in the mortar when it sets.

vinnie13 · 30-03-2014 4:44pm

albert kidd wrote: »

DO NOT USE FAIRY LIQUID as has been suggested on this thread..buy plas.

if washing up liquid was to be used builders merchants would be selling in.

leave your washing up liquid on the sink.

it reduces the strenght in the mortar when it sets.

thats just wrong,any proof to back this up or is it just a opinion?

albert kidd · 30-03-2014 4:49pm

vinnie13 wrote: »

thats just wrong,any proof to back this up or is it just a opinion?

the mortar can be almost raked out with you fingers after a few years when washing up liquid has been used instead of plas.

ive no proof..but from my own experience,ive seen it first hand on walls where it has been used.

vinnie13 · 30-03-2014 4:57pm

if it can be raked out by hand thats just a bad mix poory done,washing up liquid cant damage a mix to that degree
i have 20yr old walls that are still as strong as the day they went in.

TheShizz · 30-03-2014 7:20pm

Right, I have decided that I am going to try it your way: dump the pre-mix sh*t and do it properly.

Is this all I need? Fairy liquid or not, it's no harm to get the real deal plasticiser when it's only three quid. I've got two trowels and a large plank of wood to mix the components.

Three or four parts sand to one part cement, right? I know the theory; it's the application which is tricky.

tommy2bad · 30-03-2014 9:04pm

If your not using a mixer, put 3 shovels of sand down and 1 shovel of cement. Mix them until it all an even grey color. Now add water with plasticer a bit at the time until you have the consistency you want. Careful now because as you mix a little water goes a long way.
Now you have an idea of the ratios, make up the full amount needed. Mix it dry first then add the water.
Use a big clean floor or mix in a bucket but a bucket is slow if you need more than 2 bucket full and it's awkward, easier on a floor.

WilyCoyote · 30-03-2014 9:08pm

Am a plasterer with over 40 years experience. If the CoW saw a container of Fairy Liquid (or any cleaning detergent) hidden in the sand near the mixer ...... the high jump would be coming or at least a severe ticking off. It makes the mix lovely and viscous but the very small bubbles are not stable. The finish product will be softer than if Febmix or another Plasticiser was used.
If you're doing outside rendering you need washed plastering sand. Then add some Waterproofer to the mix - this does exactly the same with the added bonus of stabilizing and impeding the suction in the scratch coat. But always follow the manufacturer's instructions. Good luck!

whupdedo · 30-03-2014 9:14pm

vinnie13 wrote: »

if it can be raked out by hand thats just a bad mix poory done,washing up liquid cant damage a mix to that degree
i have 20yr old walls that are still as strong as the day they went in.

Your wrong, washing up liquid will break down any mortar within 15 to 20 years, washing up liquid is a detergent and not to be used in building mortar, as said in a previous post if it was meant for mortar it would be sold in builders merchants

whupdedo · 30-03-2014 9:22pm

TheShizz wrote: »

Right, I have decided that I am going to try it your way: dump the pre-mix sh*t and do it properly.

Is this all I need? Fairy liquid or not, it's no harm to get the real deal plasticiser when it's only three quid. I've got two trowels and a large plank of wood to mix the components.

Three or four parts sand to one part cement, right? I know the theory; it's the application which is tricky.

That should do the trick, I'd leave out the fairy, leave it for washing the mugs after the tay:D

vinnie13 · 30-03-2014 9:58pm

whupdedo wrote: »

Your wrong, washing up liquid will break down any mortar within 15 to 20 years, washing up liquid is a detergent and not to be used in building mortar, as said in a previous post if it was meant for mortar it would be sold in builders merchants

feel free to drop by and have a look

TheShizz · 03-04-2014 11:37am

Ok, I did it your way lads. I got sand, cement, plasticiser and even a little bit of wood for mixing the components on.

So, assuming that I'm going to be mixing 3/4 shovels of sand with one shovel of cement, what's the ideal amount of plasticiser to put into the water? I didn't get any lime because the lads on YouTube haven't got that.

whupdedo · 03-04-2014 11:44am

TheShizz wrote: »

Ok, I did it your way lads. I got sand, cement, plasticiser and even a little bit of wood for mixing the components on.

So, assuming that I'm going to be mixing 3/4 shovels of sand with one shovel of cement, what's the ideal amount of plasticiser to put into the water? I didn't get any lime because the lads on YouTube haven't got that.

Start with 2 capfuls measured into a small drop of water, and add appropriately until you get the right mix that is easy to work with, keep in mind that if your mixing with a shovel you need to mix fairly vigorously to get the mix nice and creamy, you don't need lime it will be fine without it

TheShizz · 03-04-2014 11:51am

I'm going to use four trowels worth of sand to a trowel's worth of cement firstly to see if I get any more joy than previous attempts. Then, if all goes well, I'll switch to shovel after the other mix has been used.

Cheers.

TheShizz · 03-04-2014 1:38pm

This is a joke, a joke that isn't actually funny because this is very frustrating. I whipped up pretty much the exact same mix with the trowel that I was doing last week, despite going for separate sand and cement rather than a all-in-one bag.

It could be the sand. I requested 'builders sand' but the bloke recommended plastering sand - dunno if there's a difference - so perhaps it's that. Or maybe I'm just a completely sh*t builder.

whupdedo · 03-04-2014 1:51pm

If the sand is bad, add more cement and plasticiser with less sand and reduce the amount of water, you should start out with a completely dry mix on the board and then start adding the plas and water by degrees, while turning from right to left with the shovel, try mixing 2 shovels of sand to 1 small shovel of cement dry and then start adding the plas and water

TheShizz · 03-04-2014 2:19pm

Did most of, apart from 2:1 ratio.

How this look?

whupdedo · 03-04-2014 2:24pm

Doesn't look bad at all could do with more mixing I would think, if it's still unworkable add plas on its own without water, in very small quantities at a time until your satisfied

TheShizz · 03-04-2014 2:39pm

Yeah, I dunno how much more mixing I can do. I'm shattered. But I'll try adding more plasticizer; it's not the clay type material needed.

whupdedo · 03-04-2014 2:41pm

TheShizz wrote: »

Yeah, I dunno how much more mixing I can do. I'm shattered. But I'll try adding more plasticizer; it's not the clay type material needed.

What exactly are you using it for ?

jimmy5694 · 03-04-2014 2:42pm

Could be out of date as well, shops have a habbit in selling out of date cement

What am I doing wrong?

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