Shootings In France

Nodin · 19-03-2012 1:25pm #1

Three children and a teacher have been killed by a gunman on a scooter who opened fire on a Jewish school in the French city of Toulouse.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17426313

According to the Guardian, a father and two his sons are amongst the victims.

This seems to be the same individual who shot 3 soldiers in two other incidents earlier.

If we could avoid sectarianism/racism etc please........

Biggins · 19-03-2012 1:28pm

Just read about it in the Journal.ie: http://www.thejournal.ie/several-people-shot-dead-at-french-school-389542-Mar2012/

One teacher and three kids. Very sad.

A GUNMAN HAS opened fire in front of a Jewish school in a southwest French city killing several people, the Toulouse prosecutor said today.
Sky News reports that four people have been killed: a teacher and three children. A fourth is in a serious condition in hospital.
The shooter drove away on a scooter, a national police official in Paris told the Associated Press.
Police cordoned off the private Ozar Hathora school in the northeast of Toulouse.

....

Jaafa · 19-03-2012 3:34pm

Odd if this was America this thread would be 10 pages long by now.

Sisko · 19-03-2012 3:40pm

Jaafa wrote: »

Odd if this was America this thread would be 10 pages long by now.

Probably would be if France continuously claimed to be the best country in the world. Gods country. The most morally righteous country in the world. All while invading and starting wars across the world at the same time...

People don't just randomly criticize America for the craic like...

Yes the US is always gonna be judged more harshly than other nations due to everything I mentioned at the start of my post.

Nodin wrote: »

This seems to be the same individual who shot 3 soldiers in two other incidents earlier.

Pretty messed up all right. Can't be random can it? There's talk of Muslim extremists but not too sure if this is the case yet.

FearDark · 19-03-2012 3:46pm

Clearly he had nothing toulouse.

RichieC · 19-03-2012 3:49pm

****ing hell.. what kind of pond scum can shoot children at point blank. Not that shooting adults is any better.

Jaafa · 19-03-2012 3:49pm

Sisko wrote: »

Probably would be if France continuously claimed to be the best country in the world. Gods country. The most morally righteous country in the world. All while invading and starting wars across the world at the same time...

People don't just randomly criticize America for the craic like...

Yes the US is always gonna be judged more harshly than other nations due to everything I mentioned at the start of my post.

I understand that, but it's excessive IMO. Like I said if this was in America this thread would be at least 5-10 pages by now. Yet because its France in almost 3 hours we have only 1 post on topic.

Of course shootings in America will always get more attention, but its disproportional I think.

EDIT: It was 1 while I was writing this.

wes · 19-03-2012 4:06pm

Awful crime. Hopefully whoever is responsible will be caught soon.

Manic Moran · 19-03-2012 4:09pm

Sisko wrote: »

Pretty messed up all right. Can't be random can it? There's talk of Muslim extremists but not too sure if this is the case yet.

Given the similarities, an assumption that the same individual or group is responsible for all three events is not a particularly unreasonable one, though of course not a certainty.

The combination of going against both Jews and the military is an odd one, though. The only connection I can think of off the top of my head is that the French have a hefty presence in Lebanon by the Israeli border. Is it possible they pissed off some pro-Hezbullah types during their mission there?

ejmaztec · 19-03-2012 4:09pm

Jaafa wrote: »

I understand that, but it's excessive IMO. Like I said if this was in America this thread would be at least 5-10 pages by now. Yet because its France in almost 3 hours we have only 1 post on topic.

Of course shootings in America will always get more attention, but its disproportional I think.

EDIT: It was 1 while I was writing this.

There might have been a few more pages had they known who was responsible and for what reason the shootings were carried out. There's not enough to go on yet, so people don't know who to slag off.

A Primal Nut · 19-03-2012 4:14pm

Jaafa wrote: »

I understand that, but it's excessive IMO. Like I said if this was in America this thread would be at least 5-10 pages by now. Yet because its France in almost 3 hours we have only 1 post on topic.

Of course shootings in America will always get more attention, but its disproportional I think.

EDIT: It was 1 while I was writing this.

The main reason it would be disproportionate is that there would be loads of people saying things like "It's America's own fault" and others responding "No, it's not" and so it descends into a political argument. The length of a thread on boards.ie is not a reflection of how much sympathy people have, but simply how much people have to talk about with regard to the incident. When it comes to America people have very strong opinions one way or another.

Awful incident by the way, hopefully no more fatalities and that the perpetrators are caught.

archer22 · 19-03-2012 4:28pm

Might be some type of revenge for the killing of the kids in Afghanistan.

brimal · 19-03-2012 4:29pm

Tragic.

It looks like the motive might not be specifically anti-Jewish, as the 3 military victims were of North African and Caribbean origin.

He has carried out these attacks in the middle of the day, and at point blank range, using the same gun and scooter each time.

The gunman's first gun eventually jammed, but instead of legging it, he calmly takes a second gun out and continues the shooting.

brimal · 19-03-2012 4:33pm

Also, fck me... how has America been brought into this thread???

The anti-West crowd on here are obsessed.

pragmatic1 · 19-03-2012 4:34pm

He killed a three year old. What an absolute scumbag.

Sisko · 19-03-2012 4:42pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

Given the similarities, an assumption that the same individual or group is responsible for all three events is not a particularly unreasonable one, though of course not a certainty.

The combination of going against both Jews and the military is an odd one, though. The only connection I can think of off the top of my head is that the French have a hefty presence in Lebanon by the Israeli border. Is it possible they pissed off some pro-Hezbullah types during their mission there?

brimal wrote: »

Tragic.

It looks like the motive might not be specifically anti-Jewish, as the 3 military victims were of North African and Caribbean origin.

I'm wondering if the targets were connected somehow. As in they knew each other. Maybe these attacks where not as random as one might think. Maybe there is a lot more to it.

brimal wrote: »

Also, fck me... how has America been brought into this thread???

The anti-West crowd on here are obsessed.

It shouldn't have been really and I regret replying on it tbh. It's not anti west to point out facts though. It's not about being anti or pro anything. Its just life, reality and truth.

RichieC · 19-03-2012 4:44pm

i read elsewhere that the police confirmed the same .45 gun was used in the shooting of the Soldiers. I'll get a link when i find one.

Ellis Dee · 19-03-2012 4:51pm

archer22 wrote: »

Might be some type of revenge for the killing of the kids in Afghanistan.

Possibly. And not just in Afghanistan.

<SNIP>

19-03-2012 4:52pm

FearDark wrote: »

Clearly he had nothing toulouse.

Bad form.

RIP to the victims, hopefully they catch the perp before he claims anymore innocent victims.

RichieC · 19-03-2012 4:52pm

warning on that link

brimal · 19-03-2012 4:56pm

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Possibly. And not just in Afghanistan.

<SNIP>

There is no need to post this here.

Pure opportunism to push your anti-Israel agenda on a thread involving Jews.

Jews does not automatically mean Israel.

Scum.

Tzar Chasm · 19-03-2012 4:57pm

This could be a far right group/individual along the lines of Brehivik in Norway.

Muslim soldiers and Jewish school kids would lead me to look internally in france for those involved

tfitzgerald · 19-03-2012 4:57pm

Anyone that attacks children needs to be stopped quickly and given no trial just a bullet. There is no justification for attacks like this

Tzar Chasm · 19-03-2012 5:03pm

Ah here, this is 21st center Europe, I thought we were making head way towards a civilized society, when these people ar caught I will be very interested in the trial to hear the motives

Ellis Dee · 19-03-2012 5:04pm

RichieC wrote: »

warning on that link

I believe that people need to know about all atrocities being committed against children - whether in Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine or France. Sadly, there seems to be too much concentration on atrocities committed by certain groups, whilst those committed by others are smoothed over or ignored. :rolleyes: The picture is shocking to look at, but so is the reality behind it.

brimal · 19-03-2012 5:09pm

Ellis Dee wrote: »

I believe that people need to know about all atrocities being committed against children - whether in Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine or France. Sadly, there seems to be too much concentration on atrocities committed by certain groups, whilst those committed by others are smoothed over or ignored. :rolleyes: The picture is shocking to look at, but so is the reality behind it.

Well start a new thread then.

Using the death of Jewish children in France to highlight the crimes of Israel is nothing more than opportunism on your part and is a disgusting tactic.

KeithM89_old · 19-03-2012 5:09pm

Ellis Dee wrote: »

I believe that people need to know about all atrocities being committed against children - whether in Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine or France. Sadly, there seems to be too much concentration on atrocities committed by certain groups, whilst those committed by others are smoothed over or ignored. :rolleyes: The picture is shocking to look at, but so is the reality behind it.

Do NOT post that link again

Solair · 19-03-2012 5:17pm

That's an absolutely awful attack on innocent kids! It's difficult to thinking anything worse.

It sounds a bit like that crazy guy in Norway who attacked the summer camp.

Hopefully he's caught very quickly. Toulouse is a really nice, relaxed city and I can't imagine how frightening this must be for parents there.

He needs to be caught and locked up asap before he does anything else!

Ellis Dee · 19-03-2012 5:25pm

KeithM89 wrote: »

Do NOT post that link again

OK, I'll just recommend that people inform themselves about the many, many incidences of children being killed by military machines in various parts of the world.

May I also point out that I am invariably polite to other posters and do not resort to calling those with whose views I disagree "scum" and similar things. In fact, I thought it was against the forum rules to be personally abusive to other posters and will not resort to doing so even if you confirm to me that it is acceptable to you.

KeithM89_old · 19-03-2012 5:28pm

Ellis Dee wrote: »

May I also point out that I am invariably polite to other posters and do not resort to calling those with whose views I disagree "scum" and similar things. In fact, I thought it was against the forum rules to be personally abusive to other posters and will not resort to doing so even if you confirm to me that it is acceptable to you.

Yeah that big red card beside his post shows it wasnt acceptable.

Ellis Dee · 19-03-2012 5:44pm

brimal wrote: »

There is no need to post this here.

You are not a moderator. I'll accept their rulings, but you post your stuff and I'll decide for myself what to post. OK?

brimal wrote: »

Pure opportunism to push your anti-Israel agenda on a thread involving Jews.

That is your interpretation, to which you are entitled. But it does not entitle you to become abusive. I assume that it is legitimate to oppose the war crimes and other crimes of Israel.

brimal wrote: »

Scum.

Your resorting to personal abuse instead of countering my arguments reveals a lot about you. I am always polite to other posters and I suggest you try doing the same, because now you just come across as a rather loutish bully. And, of course, it is very easy to insult people like that from behind the apron of Internet anonymity.

I am perfectly entitled to point out that many hundreds of Palestinian children have been killed by the Israelis with their total disregard for collateral damage, and I pointed out this in response to another poster's remark about nine children recently being murdered in Afghanistan by one or several Americans. I was responding to another poster's speculation that the killing of children in Afghanistan might have been the motivation for the attacks in France. The killings in Afghanistan and Palestine are every bit as reprehensible as killing a Rabbi and his kids. Unlike you, however, I am not selective, but condemn all killing of innocents.:rolleyes:

Now apologise for calling me scum if you are man enough, or else spew all the vitriol you wish, because I couldn't care less.:)

RichieC · 19-03-2012 5:51pm

According to a report from France’s Le Point newspaper, the country’s prosecutor believes Monday’s killer may be linked to two other incidents inside France recently, where the only leads police have trace back to former members of a French paratrooper division who were discharged for being closely linked to Neo -Nazis.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2012/03/19/french-prosecutor-killer-at-jewish-school-may-be-linked-to-neo-nazi-group/

Ellis Dee · 19-03-2012 5:52pm

KeithM89 wrote: »

Yeah that big red card beside his post shows it wasnt acceptable.

Thanks for the explanation. I hadn't seen it until I read your reply and actually it's something new for me. I'm still a bit of a novice with all the icons, but I'm doing my best to learn.:)

brimal · 19-03-2012 6:15pm

Ellis Dee wrote: »

......

Christ... one hour later and you are still seething.

I called you what I think you are for using the death of Jewish children to push your anti-Israel agenda. I stand by it. I have received an infraction for it, and have moved on.

Now you are asking me for an apology? And calling me a bully? You know this is the internet, right?? Move on.

You haven't added any on-topic posts to this thread. No condemnation, no sympathy, etc. Just transparent attempts at 'Oh no, Jews getting sympathy, quick - let's show what Israel has done!'

Even the most ardent critics of Israel on Boards have contributed to this thread without a mention of Israel (because the thread has NOTHING to do with Israel's crimes)

So I suggest start a new thread on this topic you feel so strongly about, and move on.

I'm not going to reply to any more of your posts, unless they are on-topic.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 19-03-2012 6:28pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

The combination of going against both Jews and the military is an odd one, though. The only connection I can think of off the top of my head is that the French have a hefty presence in Lebanon by the Israeli border. Is it possible they pissed off some pro-Hezbullah types during their mission there?

I'd doubt thats the reason for the attacks in France as Hezbollah or any of the pro-Hezbollah groups in Lebanon wouldn't pause for a second thought by targeting French-Batt patrols with an IED in Lebanon.

Gee Bag · 19-03-2012 6:40pm

On first impression I would have assumed that this was the work of an Islamic jihadi type. But then thats what everyone assumed at first about the Oklahoma Bombing. It is an election year in France so maybe this d1ck is just trying to stir up racist/immigration nonsense in advance.

Border-Rat · 19-03-2012 6:43pm

Its an attack by disillusioned member/s of the far-right according to French media Former Paratrooper/s, I hear. Kicked out for National Socialist beliefs. Whoever this was is a disgusting individual to attack a school with children. Insane individual.

By the way, nobody seems to want to make the obvious connection here but this is the fourth Jew gunned down in France in 6 months. The first was billionaire Claud Dray. That was a professional hit, he had state of the art security in his mansion. The assassin evaded the guards, cameras, lazer traps etc and shot him three times in the neck with a silencer. I'd say this could be the same person and/or group.

Border-Rat · 19-03-2012 6:45pm

Gee Bag wrote: »

On first impression I would have assumed that this was the work of an Islamic jihadi type. But then thats what everyone assumed at first about the Oklahoma Bombing. It is an election year in France so maybe this d1ck is just trying to stir up racist/immigration nonsense in advance.

Not an Islamic attack;

http://www.algemeiner.com/2012/03/19/french-prosecutor-killer-at-jewish-school-may-be-linked-to-neo-nazi-group/

Nodin · 19-03-2012 6:52pm

Border-Rat wrote: »

Its an attack by disillusioned member/s of the far-right according to French media Former Paratrooper/s, I hear. Kicked out for National Socialist beliefs. Whoever this was is a disgusting individual to attack a school with children. Insane individual.

By the way, nobody seems to want to make the obvious connection here but this is the fourth Jew gunned down in France in 6 months. The first was billionaire Claud Dray. That was a professional hit, he had state of the art security in his mansion. The assassin evaded the guards, cameras, lazer traps etc and shot him three times in the neck with a silencer. I'd say this could be the same person and/or group.

......or perhaps it was nothing to do with it at all. Perhaps such speculation would be more appropriate on a thread not involving the gunning down of 3 year olds.

Micky Dolenz · 19-03-2012 6:54pm

Mod

Any more off topic derailment will see you thread banned.

Fair warning.

Border-Rat · 19-03-2012 6:56pm

Nodin wrote: »

......or perhaps it was nothing to do with it at all. Perhaps such speculation would be more appropriate on a thread not involving the gunning down of 3 year olds.

There's nothing inappropriate about my speculation.

Tzar Chasm · 19-03-2012 6:57pm

Arabs seem to be the 'go to guy's' nowadays if people want kneejerk suspects for terrorist atrocities

People should remember that there are lots and lots of very differently motivated groups of armed nutbags out there holding a variety of retarded prejudices against the Jews

Border-Rat · 19-03-2012 6:57pm

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Mod

Any more off topic derailment will see you thread banned.

Fair warning.

Is this warning aimed at me and my speculation that this murderer is involved in a previous murder?

Manic Moran · 19-03-2012 7:13pm

Lee Thoughtless Neck wrote: »

I'd doubt thats the reason for the attacks in France as Hezbollah or any of the pro-Hezbollah groups in Lebanon wouldn't pause for a second thought by targeting French-Batt patrols with an IED in Lebanon.

Point, but it's not unheard of for people with relatives in Lebanon to be living in more Western countries. Eg if the French killed a lebanese person with such a relative, that Western denizen may find it easier to conduct his vengeance locally in France than flying to Lebanon to place a bomb.

RichieC wrote: »

According to a report from France’s Le Point newspaper, the country’s prosecutor believes Monday’s killer may be linked to two other incidents inside France recently, where the only leads police have trace back to former members of a French paratrooper division who were discharged for being closely linked to Neo -Nazis.

That makes a fairly reasonable possibility as well.

NTM

tfitzgerald · 19-03-2012 7:17pm

Border-Rat wrote: »

Its an attack by disillusioned member/s of the far-right according to French media Former Paratrooper/s, I hear. Kicked out for National Socialist beliefs. Whoever this was is a disgusting individual to attack a school with children. Insane individual.

By the way, nobody seems to want to make the obvious connection here but this is the fourth Jew gunned down in France in 6 months. The first was billionaire Claud Dray. That was a professional hit, he had state of the art security in his mansion. The assassin evaded the guards, cameras, lazer traps etc and shot him three times in the neck with a silencer. I'd say this could be the same person and/or group.

I have to say I can see nothing wrong with this post . As a matter of fact I find it very interesting

Border-Rat · 19-03-2012 7:19pm

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I have to say I can see nothing wrong with this post . As a matter of fact I find it very interesting

I'm not sure if we're allowed to pursue it as a discussion any further.

KeithAFC · 19-03-2012 7:20pm

RIP.

brimal · 19-03-2012 7:24pm

I don't think the murder of Claude Dray is related. That was an extremely professional hit.

These attacks are rather brazen - broad daylight, using the same weapon and scooter. This to me seems like a crazed lone gunman who has racist motives.

BBC wrote:

What the victims have in common is that they belong to, or are associated with, ethnic or religious minorities - North African, Caribbean and Jewish.

That they were singled out is suggested by reports that, in at least one attack, the killer pushed aside a bystander to get to his victims.

Border-Rat · 19-03-2012 7:25pm

COPS probing the fatal shootings of a teacher and three children at a Jewish school are hunting three soldiers sacked over claims they were neo-Nazis.

The men were all axed from their elite paratrooper regiment in 2008 after a photo surfaced of them giving Nazi salutes in front of a Swastika flag.
Rabbi Jonathan Sandler, 30, his two sons Aryeh, three, and Gavriel Yissacher, six, as well as eight-year-old Miriam Monsonego were shot dead by a motorbike gunman outside Ozar Hatorah college in Toulouse, France, today.
Miriam was the daughter of the school's headteacher.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4204448/Hunt-for-Nazi-soldiers-after-four-are-killed-in-France-school-shooting.html

Tzar Chasm · 19-03-2012 7:26pm

Border-Rat wrote: »

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I have to say I can see nothing wrong with this post . As a matter of fact I find it very interesting

I'm not sure if we're allowed to pursue it as a discussion any further.

I really can't see a link between the murders of those kids and the parztroopers with this one jewish guy a few months ago, the modus operandi is too different.

The only tenuous link so far is the guys Jewishness, by that logic we could link the break in at alan shatters house to it as well

I am curious about this other murder too now, so i'm off to do some in depth and thorough research Googling

Border-Rat · 19-03-2012 7:30pm

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

I really can't see a link between the murders of those kids and the parztroopers with this one jewish guy a few months ago, the modus operandi is too different.

The only tenuous link so far is the guys Jewishness, by that logic we could link the break in at alan shatters house to it as well

I am curious about this other murder too now, so i'm off to do some in depth and thorough research Googling

Its no less out there than bringing the Lebanon into it, as the thread was beginning to nosedive into the usual Mooslim-hating rubbish.

Shootings In France

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